First Time Shooting An Event with TTL Flash ... A Few Questions Please

[ronfab1]

Hello

In the past with my A7r III Sony I have shot dual purpose both still photos and video. Not weddings .... parties and gatherings.... and I have used the light source in the first photo. Works great with plenty of light on a dimmer and good diffuser and can choose 3200, 4000 or 5600K to best match the ambient lighting.

But I have been asked to shoot photos only at a 60 year high school reunion. I have a nice Flashpoint Zoom Li-On R2 with TTL (second photo) that I have never really shot people with, or much used at all as I shoot otherwise than events a lot of available light. My concerns are not getting red eyes, with most shots probably going to be 10-15 feet distance, and there may be not the brightest of lighting at this location, don't really know.

As well, with people pushing close to 80 years of age of course a lot of wrinkles and simply the passage of time on faces. I always shoot JPEG plus RAW and optimize each photo. But I do not want to get into a lot of touch up of course as this is basically being done as a favor, And that is incredibly time consuming.

I'm assuming the flash route with higher fill lighting will do a kinder job in that respect than the continuous video light. I was surprised and pleased to recently find after owning this flash unit for around 4 years and not really using it, that it has the pull up white card and diffuser. If I use that with the slight forward lean as in the photo would that take care of the red eyes worry plus with the tiny pre-flash? It would be coming from around 12" above the lens.

The lens is the first iteration of the Sigma 24-70mm F2/8 and nicely sharp. I do have Topaz Photo AI, which has the Face Recovery option which on higher settings can smooth things out but it's very heavy handed at those levels of course.

Please, would very much appreciate any tips and advice on camera settings, ISO, F stop and the Flashpoint unit how to make these shots look their best with the least amount of post work on each, and have no red eyes. Thanks very much.

 

[A-Marc]

only one link

 

[A74Me]

only one link

very cool

 

[Michael Firstlight]

only one link

I'll second, third, and fourth support that! Also, his printed book is great. But remember, BFT doesn't suffice in all situations.

Mike

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.

 

[Ellis Vener]

Hello

In the past with my A7r III Sony I have shot dual purpose both still photos and video. Not weddings .... parties and gatherings.... and I have used the light source in the first photo. Works great with plenty of light on a dimmer and good diffuser and can choose 3200, 4000 or 5600K to best match the ambient lighting.

But I have been asked to shoot photos only at a 60 year high school reunion. I have a nice Flashpoint Zoom Li-On R2 with TTL (second photo) that I have never really shot people with, or much used at all as I shoot otherwise than events a lot of available light. My concerns are not getting red eyes, with most shots probably going to be 10-15 feet distance, and there may be not the brightest of lighting at this location, don't really know.

As well, with people pushing close to 80 years of age of course a lot of wrinkles and simply the passage of time on faces. I always shoot JPEG plus RAW and optimize each photo. But I do not want to get into a lot of touch up of course as this is basically being done as a favor, And that is incredibly time consuming.

I'm assuming the flash route with higher fill lighting will do a kinder job in that respect than the continuous video light. I was surprised and pleased to recently find after owning this flash unit for around 4 years and not really using it, that it has the pull up white card and diffuser. If I use that with the slight forward lean as in the photo would that take care of the red eyes worry plus with the tiny pre-flash? It would be coming from around 12" above the lens.

The lens is the first iteration of the Sigma 24-70mm F2/8 and nicely sharp. I do have Topaz Photo AI, which has the Face Recovery option which on higher settings can smooth things out but it's very heavy handed at those levels of course.

Please, would very much appreciate any tips and advice on camera settings, ISO, F stop and the Flashpoint unit how to make these shots look their best with the least amount of post work on each, and have no red eyes. Thanks very much.

Chose an ISO value you are satisfied with, f/ 5.6 to f/8, TTL, and the best way to avoid red-eye is to use flash on a bracket to move it away from the lens axis.

Here are two inexpensive options for flash brackets: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/743002-REG/Vello_CB_100_Quickdraw_Rotating_Flash_Bracket.html

Or this low profile “ paparazzi” type: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...brackets_cb_mini_rc_cb_mini_camera_flash.html

Of those two designs I prefer the second one.

There are other options available most of which are more expensive. All are larger, some are clunkier, some are more complex (but ultimately more versatile) , some hit the trifecta of being larger, complicated, and clunkier ( not a winning combination obviously). If I am not using the custom brackets cb mini, I use a ProMediaGear BBGV2 Boomerang Flash Bracket https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...x3_boomerang_verticalgrip_qr_for_cameras.html because it gets the flash up higher so I can use an cos softbox, is better engineered and designed, more versatile, keeps the weight of the camera and flash in my right hand so my left hand stays where it needs to be - under the lens. I also like that it mounts directly to PMG’s Arca--Swiss type quick-release camera baseplates. It will also improve the lighting quality when using that small LED light you are already using

But I am not recommending the PMG Boomerang to you because it is going to be overkill. It’s a great piece of kit, but because you aren’t shooting these events regularly I think it’s not a good fit for what you need or should spend money on.

With the flash mounted on a flash bracket you have two options for camera to flash communication:either a wireless radio controller from Godox or a camera hotshoe to flash cable. For event work with the flash mounted on a bracket I prefer the latter approach. For your camera you’ll need a cable like this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1453976-REG/vello_ocs_sm15_ttl_cord_for_sony.html

--
Ellis Vener
To see my work, please visit http://www.ellisvener.com
I am on Instagram @EllisVenerStudio
“It's not about the f-stop." -Jay Maisel
Don't be "a photographer.” Be photographing. (Paraphrasing William Faulkner's advice to writers.)

 

[Ellis Vener]

only one link

Great product but the limitation is you need a nearby white ceiling or wall to point the light at.

 

[ronfab1]

Hello

In the past with my A7r III Sony I have shot dual purpose both still photos and video. Not weddings .... parties and gatherings.... and I have used the light source in the first photo. Works great with plenty of light on a dimmer and good diffuser and can choose 3200, 4000 or 5600K to best match the ambient lighting.

But I have been asked to shoot photos only at a 60 year high school reunion. I have a nice Flashpoint Zoom Li-On R2 with TTL (second photo) that I have never really shot people with, or much used at all as I shoot otherwise than events a lot of available light. My concerns are not getting red eyes, with most shots probably going to be 10-15 feet distance, and there may be not the brightest of lighting at this location, don't really know.

As well, with people pushing close to 80 years of age of course a lot of wrinkles and simply the passage of time on faces. I always shoot JPEG plus RAW and optimize each photo. But I do not want to get into a lot of touch up of course as this is basically being done as a favor, And that is incredibly time consuming.

I'm assuming the flash route with higher fill lighting will do a kinder job in that respect than the continuous video light. I was surprised and pleased to recently find after owning this flash unit for around 4 years and not really using it, that it has the pull up white card and diffuser. If I use that with the slight forward lean as in the photo would that take care of the red eyes worry plus with the tiny pre-flash? It would be coming from around 12" above the lens.

The lens is the first iteration of the Sigma 24-70mm F2/8 and nicely sharp. I do have Topaz Photo AI, which has the Face Recovery option which on higher settings can smooth things out but it's very heavy handed at those levels of course.

Please, would very much appreciate any tips and advice on camera settings, ISO, F stop and the Flashpoint unit how to make these shots look their best with the least amount of post work on each, and have no red eyes. Thanks very much.

Chose an ISO value you are satisfied with, f/ 5.6 to f/8, TTL, and the best way to avoid red-eye is to use flash on a bracket to move it away from the lens axis.

Here are two inexpensive options for flash brackets: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/743002-REG/Vello_CB_100_Quickdraw_Rotating_Flash_Bracket.html

Or this low profile “ paparazzi” type: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...brackets_cb_mini_rc_cb_mini_camera_flash.html

Of those two designs I prefer the second one.

There are other options available most of which are more expensive. All are larger, some are clunkier, some are more complex (but ultimately more versatile) , some hit the trifecta of being larger, complicated, and clunkier ( not a winning combination obviously). If I am not using the custom brackets cb mini, I use a ProMediaGear BBGV2 Boomerang Flash Bracket https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...x3_boomerang_verticalgrip_qr_for_cameras.html because it gets the flash up higher so I can use an cos softbox, is better engineered and designed, more versatile, keeps the weight of the camera and flash in my right hand so my left hand stays where it needs to be - under the lens. I also like that it mounts directly to PMG’s Arca--Swiss type quick-release camera baseplates. It will also improve the lighting quality when using that small LED light you are already using

But I am not recommending the PMG Boomerang to you because it is going to be overkill. It’s a great piece of kit, but because you aren’t shooting these events regularly I think it’s not a good fit for what you need or should spend money on.

With the flash mounted on a flash bracket you have two options for camera to flash communication:either a wireless radio controller from Godox or a camera hotshoe to flash cable. For event work with the flash mounted on a bracket I prefer the latter approach. For your camera you’ll need a cable like this one: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1453976-REG/vello_ocs_sm15_ttl_cord_for_sony.html

Thanks Ellis for all of that. OK I decided to go "sideways" with the "paparazzi" type bracket and the connecting cable you specified. Rather than go "high" and I think it's a better look too. Plus I bought the Sto-Fen OM-EY bounce diffuser that fits my flash unit and ordered a second battery just in case. All this from B&H except the battery already picked up at Amazon, coming from Adorama. That should allow me no sweat to put the flash on max power if it needs it and shoot in that F/5.6 to F/8 range with good diffusion. People seem to like those Sto-Fens a lot for on camera. I also played around some with the levels between 40 and 70 on the Facial Recovery on Topaz Photo AI on some prior shot people pics and they help a lot with the skin being smoother at least, if not doing much for anything else.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

A lot depends on the venue -- if you have a white ceiling low enough to bounce that's great. If not you may be limited to direct flash.

I'll endorse the Neil van Niekirk link from the first post, although I usually use white foam to kick out a little more light. You can combine the foam ideas with a bracket.

I like to work using TTL and the highest acceptable ISO for quick recycle and long battery life. With your flash you need to be aware of overheat protection, which will kick in and slow recycle to several seconds if you shoot too fast at higher output. I like to be around f8, but try to choose a shutter and f setting to allow some background detail.

Gato

 

[Fishman Dan]

Apologies I haven't fully read your message.

When I flash at indoor events, I usually have the flash + diffuser (see below) pointed up, beyond vertical. This allows you to bounce off ceilings (and avoid blinding your subjects!). Different if it's outdoors.

I typically use the plastic diffuser that comes with my (Canon) speedlights, but I generally shoot sport now (so we're talking post-game shots etc). However in the past I have shot with a larger diffuser light the Gary Fong Lightsphere. It's very very good for this purpose.
The GFLS will mean you always have your flash pointing up, but the light is diffused in all directions (you can add a bit of paper or reflector on the rear side of the GFLS if you want to get technical).

TTL is fine, but I far prefer to shoot with my own power setting. I find TTL it a bit hit and miss with some shots, and depending on the circumstance, you can't afford that (don't be afraid to say "Oh one moment, can we please take one more?" during the event!).

These days my 'typical' settings would be;

• f5.6 (or f6.3)
• ISO 400 (maybe 800 if it's in more open space)
• 1/125th or 1/160th

That leaves me with the flash on anywhere from about 1/2 power to 1/8 depending on the space I'm in.

For me the aperture and ISO are the most important, you can mix and match with the shutter speed and flash power beyond that.

Good luck. I recommend taking the step away from TTL. It's hard first step, but it's very rewarding.

 

[Michael Firstlight]

Hello

In the past with my A7r III Sony I have shot dual purpose both still photos and video. Not weddings .... parties and gatherings.... and I have used the light source in the first photo. Works great with plenty of light on a dimmer and good diffuser and can choose 3200, 4000 or 5600K to best match the ambient lighting.

But I have been asked to shoot photos only at a 60 year high school reunion. I have a nice Flashpoint Zoom Li-On R2 with TTL (second photo) that I have never really shot people with, or much used at all as I shoot otherwise than events a lot of available light. My concerns are not getting red eyes, with most shots probably going to be 10-15 feet distance, and there may be not the brightest of lighting at this location, don't really know.

As well, with people pushing close to 80 years of age of course a lot of wrinkles and simply the passage of time on faces. I always shoot JPEG plus RAW and optimize each photo. But I do not want to get into a lot of touch up of course as this is basically being done as a favor, And that is incredibly time consuming.

I'm assuming the flash route with higher fill lighting will do a kinder job in that respect than the continuous video light. I was surprised and pleased to recently find after owning this flash unit for around 4 years and not really using it, that it has the pull up white card and diffuser. If I use that with the slight forward lean as in the photo would that take care of the red eyes worry plus with the tiny pre-flash? It would be coming from around 12" above the lens.

The lens is the first iteration of the Sigma 24-70mm F2/8 and nicely sharp. I do have Topaz Photo AI, which has the Face Recovery option which on higher settings can smooth things out but it's very heavy handed at those levels of course.

Please, would very much appreciate any tips and advice on camera settings, ISO, F stop and the Flashpoint unit how to make these shots look their best with the least amount of post work on each, and have no red eyes. Thanks very much.

If you can use the BFT (have adequate neural color bounce surface), use that first. If not, then I prefer using a MagMod MagBounce and pointing the flash up 70 degrees or so. The Magbounce provides a lot of diffusion over small cards, eliminates shadows, and I've never had to move the flash off-axis with a clumsy bracket. The Magmod is great because it pops on and off instantly and is secure with a powerful magnet. The Magmod can be scrunched up in the bag or pocket and never loses its shape (portability and quick attach/removal - especially if you are switching on and off with a BFT).

I much prefer ambient light in most venues, but with flash, if you don't first expose to get as much ambient light as possible you end up with a dark or black background with obvious flash instead of natural fill-flash. So, I shoot my camera in manual mode, set the exposure for the ambient light I want (or can reasonably get) by choosing a higher ISO and desired aperture for DoF, then set the flash to iTTL and let the flash add the fill and adjust flash compensation slightly up or down until the subjects look as natural as possible without noticing flash was even used.

Mike

--
The one thing everyone can agree on is that film photography has its negatives. It even has its positives and internegatives.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

only one link

When working up close (reception grip & grins), I never lean the flash forward. All that does is position the bounce directly over the subject’s head, where it can cast ghastly shadows on the face. Instead, I lean the flash backward, so the bounce surface is behind me and well in front of the subject. Also turning the head so the bounce surface is a few feet to the side makes one side of the face a bit lighter, for a more studio-like look. Of course, this requires a matte, not glossy, surface.

When bouncing straight up because I’m at a distance of 8’ or more with a relatively low ceiling, fill from my bounce card or white dome is fairly subtle, but if I nonetheless want to block it (e.g. when there is a shiny surface behind the subject), I can do this by spinning the bounce card on my round-head Flashpoint Zoom Li-on X around to the front so it’s actually sending light behind me. This 360-degree rotatable bounce card is my absolute favorite feature of this flash and the key reason my non-X flashes have been relegated to off-camera use.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

Here’s how I’ve set my Sonys, including a7RIII:

• Set flash mode on the camera to “fill flash”.
• Set Auto ISO ceiling to 25,600.
• Set “Minimum Shutter with Auto ISO” to “fast” (or “slow” for dragged-shutter blurring effect with moving subjects on dance floor).
• Set Exposure Compensation function to apply only to ambient exposure.
• Set EC dial to -1 or -2 EV to dim ambient without letting it go black.

I bounce straight up or slightly behind me, and a few feet to one side.

With a the same flash you have, I use a white dome in small spaces, no dome in big ones. Either way, I turn the head, pointed up, 90 degrees clockwise so I can flop it down to the right to bounce the ceiling when shooting with the camera in portrait orientation. I also tape a white biz card or index card to the narrow side of the flash head nearest me so it can provide forward bounce with the head straight up or flopped over. This is my basic bounce flash setup. If I can only go direct (I.e. no walls or ceiling to bounce), I leave the dome and bounce card off - they can’t help.

If I can’t bounce, I put a trigger or fill-flash on the camera and use it to trigger my main flash that’s held in my left hand with a 16” flat, round softbox on it. If the flash will stay on-camera, I’ll use a 12” version of the softbox. I will do almost anything to avoid the look of direct on-camera flash.

The softbox was originally designed and sold by the folks at Fstoppers.com. It’s no longer available there, but there are lots of knock-offs on Amazon.

--
Event professional for 20+ years, travel & landscape enthusiast for 30+.
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

 

[ronfab1]

Thank you everyone for all the additional replies and tips .... much appreciated!

 

[ronfab1]

Apologies I haven't fully read your message.

When I flash at indoor events, I usually have the flash + diffuser (see below) pointed up, beyond vertical. This allows you to bounce off ceilings (and avoid blinding your subjects!). Different if it's outdoors.

I typically use the plastic diffuser that comes with my (Canon) speedlights, but I generally shoot sport now (so we're talking post-game shots etc). However in the past I have shot with a larger diffuser light the Gary Fong Lightsphere. It's very very good for this purpose.
The GFLS will mean you always have your flash pointing up, but the light is diffused in all directions (you can add a bit of paper or reflector on the rear side of the GFLS if you want to get technical).

TTL is fine, but I far prefer to shoot with my own power setting. I find TTL it a bit hit and miss with some shots, and depending on the circumstance, you can't afford that (don't be afraid to say "Oh one moment, can we please take one more?" during the event!).

These days my 'typical' settings would be;

• f5.6 (or f6.3)
• ISO 400 (maybe 800 if it's in more open space)
• 1/125th or 1/160th

That leaves me with the flash on anywhere from about 1/2 power to 1/8 depending on the space I'm in.

For me the aperture and ISO are the most important, you can mix and match with the shutter speed and flash power beyond that.

Good luck. I recommend taking the step away from TTL. It's hard first step, but it's very rewarding.

Hi Dan

I settled on your "go manual" advice and have been doing a lot of tests with my A7r III Sony in those same ranges, though for people and group shots I won't go higher than 1/80 shutter speed. I decided against the paparazzi bracket and will go with the speed light almost vertical as in the photo with any kind of a reasonable ceiling height, with the Sto Fen diffuser, and 5.6 or 6.3 at 1/4 power flash with ISO in those same ranges 400 - 800. Very happy with the results and especially after working from the RAW files and Topaz AI. In fact I do see a lot of benefit in the Facial recovery used with the noise reduction and/or sharpening to smooth rough skin and mild imperfections.. BUT and it's a Big BUT .... going manual at those lower ISOs and the shutter speed and not wide open apertures makes my viewfinder extremely dark if the room is dim at all. With Aperture priority and TTL it stays open for composition and seeing people and groups well. For you or any Sony owners .... is there any way to shoot on camera flash with fully manual settings and keep the VF bright enough to see well what is going on? The camera still focusses fine with the red beam in the dim light but how do you "manual setting" event flash guys in low light keep brightness in the eye view finder?

 

[fotowbert]

ronfab1 wrote in part:

BUT and it's a Big BUT .... going manual at those lower ISOs and the shutter speed and not wide open apertures makes my viewfinder extremely dark if the room is dim at all. With Aperture priority and TTL it stays open for composition and seeing people and groups well. For you or any Sony owners .... is there any way to shoot on camera flash with fully manual settings and keep the VF bright enough to see well what is going on? The camera still focusses fine with the red beam in the dim light but how do you "manual setting" event flash guys in low light keep brightness in the eye view finder?

Go menu diving and find the item about "setting effects" which controls WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) and turn it off. Cameras usually do this for you when they detect flash is being used.

If it doesn't know there will be light from a flash the EVF shows what the ambient light alone will look like.

• John

--
"[If you don't sweat the details] the magic doesn't work." Brooks, F. P., The Mythical Man-Month, Addison-Wesley, 1975, page 8.

 

[ronfab1]

ronfab1 wrote in part:

BUT and it's a Big BUT .... going manual at those lower ISOs and the shutter speed and not wide open apertures makes my viewfinder extremely dark if the room is dim at all. With Aperture priority and TTL it stays open for composition and seeing people and groups well. For you or any Sony owners .... is there any way to shoot on camera flash with fully manual settings and keep the VF bright enough to see well what is going on? The camera still focusses fine with the red beam in the dim light but how do you "manual setting" event flash guys in low light keep brightness in the eye view finder?

Go menu diving and find the item about "setting effects" which controls WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) and turn it off. Cameras usually do this for you when they detect flash is being used.

If it doesn't know there will be light from a flash the EVF shows what the ambient light alone will look like.

• John

BOOM!!! Wow what a concept I can see again with manual settings. Thanks so much. It was the "Live View Setting" that I needed to turn off. Am feeling pretty excited now having always dug my heels in or been too lazy to learn how to use flash. I definitely think for me the manual settings are the way to go, and have turned the 2 second auto review back on, which I turn off if I think I want to be able to fire off rapid single shots with available light. I definitely want to see the photos immediately though with manually set flash shooting.

Thanks again everyone .... you're been great!

 

[ronfab1]

I have a new problem it seems with my barely used on (Sony A7r III) camera Flashpoint ZOOM LI-ON R2 TTL unit. I have been doing extensive testing between 3 lenses as to which I want to use, with being very happy with 1/4 flash power, F/5.6, 1/80 SS and 640 ISO. Between my generation I Sigma 24-70 F/2.8, Sony Zeiss Distagon 35mm F/1.4 and my beastly Tamron 35-150mm F/2-2.8. Originally I thought it would be the Sigma 24-70 for convenience and its fine imaging quality. I think the Tamron edges it in color rendering and sharpness overall while being much heavier. But I am in love with what I see out of the Sony Zeiss Lens with its color rendering and micro contrast. I have a reference level sample with none of the random other issues that people reported over the years.

BUT this flash unit has started not firing frequently, to the point of I really have a problem. These are not rapid fire situations, and it seems I need to manually fire it with the red button first to make sure it goes off. If I have waited 20 seconds or less for the next test shot that's when it often happens. Over all this time the LCD display never moved off of 3 bars. But I took the battery out and put it in the charger last night and it seemed about half depleted at least, with 2 bars solid green and the toward full 2 bars flashing until it was fully charged again. I put it back in the unit, hoping that might have contributed with a lower charge on the battery but nope, the very first shot I triggered from the camera it didn't fire.

Like everything else I'd imagine I'm not the only person having encountered this with a speed light on camera. Are there any things for me to check or do, or does it sound like my flash unit is simply no longer trustworthy enough to use, and I have to buy a new one. All these tests with seriously not all that many shots fired in the scheme of the use one of these should be expected to get ..... is like barely even having been used since I bought it.

As always thank you for any thoughts.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

----

BUT this flash unit has started not firing frequently, to the point of I really have a problem. These are not rapid fire situations, and it seems I need to manually fire it with the red button first to make sure it goes off. If I have waited 20 seconds or less for the next test shot that's when it often happens. Over all this time the LCD display never moved off of 3 bars. But I took the battery out and put it in the charger last night and it seemed about half depleted at least, with 2 bars solid green and the toward full 2 bars flashing until it was fully charged again. I put it back in the unit, hoping that might have contributed with a lower charge on the battery but nope, the very first shot I triggered from the camera it didn't fire.

---

This does not sound good.

Sounds as if you've covered the likely possibilities, but just to run through -

- The overheat protection will radically slow recycle. But popping the battery should have reset that, and waiting overnight surely would have. So that's out.

- A low battery could possibly lead to slow recycle, but you charged the battery so that's covered.

The other thing you can try is a factory reset. There should be instructions in the manual. I wouldn't get my hopes up, but it only takes a minute or so to try.

In the end my advice is to replace the flash. Sorry to say it, but you can't go out shooting events with gear you can't trust. A replacement or repair now and then is just part of the cost of doing business.

Gato

 

[ronscuba]

Make sure the speedlight is pushed all the way into the hot shoe and tightened down.

I have a bad habit of sometimes grabbing my camera by the neck of the speedlight shoe which loosens the connection.

Also inspect the speedlight shoe connector and pins to see if any are bent or damaged.

--
https://www.ronchauphoto.com/
https://www.instagram.com/rchau.photo

 

[Klaus dk]

If I recall correctly, there's a menu item concerning how fast the flash will go into power saving mode.

Once in that mode, it needs a press on the test button to wake up. This at least is what happens with my triggers.

Before you buy a new flash, see if you can find that setting in the menu.