Every forum user needs to read and understand this

[deednets]

When I'm really curious about a lens I'll read that old FM thread page 1 thru whatever, in those instances it's not any worse than going thru dozens of sub threads here... I'm not sure I understand how/why you renavigate certain threads. If you find something really essential you can always bookmark it...

Let me just respond to this part: you re-read all 66 pages? Respect!

I don't, but I am very selective as to what I read. And sometimes re-visit threads, Yousouf Karsh threads (never mastered his name correctly, sorry) or that Bangkok based train station portrait photographer, the Vogue Lebanon editor I exchange friendly comments from time to time, docno and impulses here, but that's about it.

So, what bothers me in flat view when resposes can be found, say, on pages 1, 6, 8, 15, 21 and 46, how do YOU know that there were no further replies?

Sorry but on this occasion we are on different sides of the planet, but hey, the world is a colourful place, can you please link the SY45 vs the Sigma 45 responses? How many were there anyway? Easy to figure this out?

 

[deednets]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't.

I'd assume if you make a comment like that you're responding to the OP or the subject in general... Just like in threaded view where I don't usually quote if I'm replying to the OP/subject. OP would still get a notification, in some boards (again dunno about what DPR is using) everyone else might get a notification that XYZ made a post and there may be further posts after it, but if someone replies to them they'd get a different notification saying that (within the forum UI).

What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

People will break the system no matter which of the two we're using, people leave replies in random sub threads here all the time when they really meant them for the OP and they don't quote anything. Once in a while someone will ask if it was for them since it was a reply under their comment, most of the time we shrug and move on no?

In flat view I could've multi quote you and made a single comment today though, instead of replying with regards to the same subject in several different sub threads. I think it actually keeps threads shorter, whether it keeps them more on topic might come down to moderators but I think it makes their life easier TBH.

No, that was a response to your "I know tons (a ton = 1000kg) claim

So in flat view, which I used, I could have replied to multiple posts here? How do you know I didn't?

We may have to agree to disagree here, I will certainly spend less time here if it becomes a chore of using Google, like you suggested, to find a post.

 

[Impulses]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

How is it easier with threaded view? I guess if you're keeping up with the thread then the day/hour indicators help a bit, but if you're keeping up with a thread then a flat view isn't much worse IMO... After a few days/weeks it's all the same. The notification system on other boards tends to be more powerful and makes it clear when someone replies to you...

I use threaded view now, mostly because I know it would break others' flow if I don't and at times on mobile it's slightly easier to navigate, but I can't say I'll miss it TBH. When I first started using DPR I was flat view heathen cause threaded just seemed so disorienting compared to everything else...

How is it easier? Like in my example Fred Miranda 66-page thread about the Sigma 45/2.8 there were comparisons between the 45 and other lenses. How would notifications help YOU personally to re-find a thread of replies that are potentially on a large number of pages? Say, a post, like Fred Miranda's sample page, somebody replies to on page 6, the thread grows and Fred's reply is then on page 8. The response to that on page 11 and because you only found out about this thread, your response is on page 27.

You find this easy? On your phone??

Really???

Deed

I'm not trying to be obtuse, honestly, but how are the pages worse than the nested set of threads that after a handful of days will all say "1 month ago" or "1 year ago"? Are you finding comments by user at that point or recolecting the threaded structure or something?

When I wanna find a comment by someone I tend either look up the user's comments or I just Google it, if I know I'll really wanna reference it in the future I just bookmark it. I've gone back to that 45/2.8 thread a few times to look up the rendering comparison I remember seeing against the SY45...

I can lookup threads of mine from 2013 without Google.

I know your heart is with the SY, the cheaper and faster lens, but, since you are the advocate extraordinare for flat view,

I'm not married to either lol, I'm not at all opposed to threaded view still being an option either! I'm just saying I won't miss it and for how I navigate the boards it doesn't make a big difference. I can see advantages to either UI, but I know a lot of people when given the choice will opt for flat and that tends to break the system for others...

If anything I'd probably lean on the side of "pick one already and don't give people a choice", I'm usually all about choice and options but in this instance I think it just breaks the flow to have half the users experiencing things one way and the other half a different way. I think most long time DPR contributors end up using threaded, but even Google searches sometimes default the view to flat (while already logged in) for some unknown reason.

Not married to the Samyang either! In fact I prefer a manual 50/1.4 when I really care about rendering (or gasp, the 35GM), and right now I'm leaning towards keeping the TTArtisan 40/2 over the SY 45/1.8 tbh; but I wanna update the former and run a couple AF tests which take even more time than the optical tests I've barely started.

In the comparison between the SY and the 45/2.8 that I recall at Fred Miranda, the Sigma clearly had an edge in several instances, and that comparison was a lot more useful to me than any number of isolated shots where I couldn't possibly guess how the other lens would handle the same scene (no offense). Did either of us change the thread/reply title here to reflect the subject change?

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1616217/1&year=2019#15153308

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1616217/2&year=2019#15159304

Both links from the same thread, it's actually a short one with a lot of relevant discussion, not the main 45/2.8 DN thread but it wasn't too hard to find (I didn't cheat heh, had no bookmark or anything to go on but my recollection).

can you quickly send me a link for that SY sample shot comparison? Would be interested although I would possibly look at those pics on my 30"x2 PC setup. And whilst you're at it, also the one about the Loxia 50/2.

I don't recall a Loxia comparison, now sure which one you're alluding to there... Tho there was a couple comparisons of 50s here recently that included it and the Viltrox 50/2 amongst others (or was it with the CV APO-Lanthar, hmm).

You DO understand that in threaded view, you can start with one, say, the SY samples and the see all responses to THAT post? How do you see all replies to the SY45 on FM in flat view? If this is so easy-peasy I would like to know.

Thank you!

I'm not sure what you mean tbh. People don't tend to re-label sub threads when using threaded view so I find it just as messy. I think I'm in favor of shorter more concise threads tho, the eternal FM threads about a single lens do get exceedingly long and basically turn into a Flickr album for the lens in the long run. I'll go thru them when it's a lens I know nothing about, but otherwise I don't follow them...

I don't tend to frequent FM a ton TBH, certainly not as much as DPR, SBAF, been going back to Head-Fi lately even tho the signal to noise ratio there is horrible, but I was picking up new headphones... I've been out of the loop on Android/PC forums for a bit now. None of the other boards I frequent have ever had threaded view, so I'm just used to both approaches.

 

[Impulses]

When I'm really curious about a lens I'll read that old FM thread page 1 thru whatever, in those instances it's not any worse than going thru dozens of sub threads here... I'm not sure I understand how/why you renavigate certain threads. If you find something really essential you can always bookmark it...

Did you purposely break the quote here? Here I FTFY...

Let me just respond to this part: you re-read all 66 pages? Respect!

I don't think I've read the 45/2.8 thread in it's entirety but I've read similarly long 50-page+ threads for other lenses I'm considering buying, I do a lot of research before making any decision, not sure whether that's good or bad tbh (paralysis by analysis and all that)... My partner teases me about it, sometimes even becomes annoyed about it, but at the same time she finds it useful at other times.

I don't, but I am very selective as to what I read. And sometimes re-visit threads, Yousouf Karsh threads (never mastered his name correctly, sorry) or that Bangkok based train station portrait photographer, the Vogue Lebanon editor I exchange friendly comments from time to time, docno and impulses here, but that's about it.

So, what bothers me in flat view when resposes can be found, say, on pages 1, 6, 8, 15, 21 and 46, how do YOU know that there were no further replies?

Like no more replies to the thread overall or to you specifically? Most people that wanna reply on those boards will in fact end up using the quote functionality, which generates a notification, I've found... Could be wrong!

Sorry but on this occasion we are on different sides of the planet, but hey, the world is a colourful place, can you please link the SY45 vs the Sigma 45 responses? How many were there anyway? Easy to figure this out?

Sure, I linked them in the other sub-thread about this...

That's the one I remember most clearly so I was glad to find it, there's a few other comparisons in the larger threads (vs Noktons, etc.). I think in some instances the extra speed of the SY can be worth more than the smoother rendering of the Sigma, but in other cases the opposite is true (specially with more specular highlights or backgrounds that are closer).

Overall I think the Sigma has the smoothest rendering of any modern mirrorless AF lens that small (eg not 3"+ w/a 2 stop advantage, etc.), that I've seen at least, the only ones that come close at that size tend to be manual.

I'm leaning towards the 40/2 mostly for the practical aspects, and the rendering seemingly being a little better than the SY's (I don't think it's in the Sigma's league). It's a little wider (than 40mm), a little smaller, has an aperture wheel, etc. There's a FM thread about it too but it goes in a few different directions since some people were having mechanical vignette and/or AF issues, there's been at least one non official update, etc.

Question, how would threaded view help you find a comparison like that after a few weeks have passed? The threaded nests here all just start looking the same to me after a week, they're useful sometimes in active threads but not as as a general absolute reference.

I've googled my way back to DPR threads as well...

 

[Impulses]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't.

I'd assume if you make a comment like that you're responding to the OP or the subject in general... Just like in threaded view where I don't usually quote if I'm replying to the OP/subject. OP would still get a notification, in some boards (again dunno about what DPR is using) everyone else might get a notification that XYZ made a post and there may be further posts after it, but if someone replies to them they'd get a different notification saying that (within the forum UI).

What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

People will break the system no matter which of the two we're using, people leave replies in random sub threads here all the time when they really meant them for the OP and they don't quote anything. Once in a while someone will ask if it was for them since it was a reply under their comment, most of the time we shrug and move on no?

In flat view I could've multi quote you and made a single comment today though, instead of replying with regards to the same subject in several different sub threads. I think it actually keeps threads shorter, whether it keeps them more on topic might come down to moderators but I think it makes their life easier TBH.

No, that was a response to your "I know tons (a ton = 1000kg) claim

So in flat view, which I used, I could have replied to multiple posts here? How do you know I didn't?

No no sorry, you misunderstood me and/or I didn't explain that point clearly enough. I meant in flat view on other boards with a different UI/platform you can multi-quote, literally quote several different comments together as you read, and then afterwards post a single reply with each quote separated within your comment... I find that useful.

So for instance if that were available here and I was reading in flat view, I could've quoted the last three posts you made directed at me and replied to them all in one... I think the biggest friction point here (not between us but between the different UI paradigms) is that they simply can't co-exist well. Things like nested quotes don't work with flat view and multi-quoting with separate but collapsed quotes can't work with threaded view.

We may have to agree to disagree here, I will certainly spend less time here if it becomes a chore of using Google, like you suggested, to find a post.

That'd be a shame IMO, the lifeblood of the DPR boards are the different/insightful views and the collected mass of knowledge amassed.

 

[grsnovi]

in flat view on other boards with a different UI/platform you can multi-quote, literally quote several different comments together as you read, and then afterwards post a single reply with each quote separated within your comment... I find that useful.

The above capability is very useful!

You simply highlight what you want to include from a post and hit reply. You can do that as many times as you like with the source author being identified.



--
Gary

Gary Smith

Explore Gary Smith’s 169 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

 

[Thecylon]

I will only ever read in flat view.

 

[Impulses]

in flat view on other boards with a different UI/platform you can multi-quote, literally quote several different comments together as you read, and then afterwards post a single reply with each quote separated within your comment... I find that useful.

The above capability is very useful!

You simply highlight what you want to include from a post and hit reply. You can do that as many times as you like with the source author being identified.



--
Gary
https://www.flickr.com/photos/193735606@N03/

Yeah that's what I meant, on some of the boards I frequent the quote will also be collapsed if it's long (but can be expanded in place) and clicking them can take you back to the original post, etc. That probably helps keep thread size down to some extent, on one board I frequent you can't even make too many posts in a row (as I'm doing right now, oops) and it urges you to use the multi quote... I'd rather leave spam curbing to the mods but eh.

Ultimately if the content is something I find valuable, I'll end up adapting to any UI TBH, if it's all noise I'll bail regardless of the UI.

 

[A74Me]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't. What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

Im with you on this one deed, i think most on these forums just like to post disagreements and opposing comments, its how i see it, i think there are a lot of members that are also reps for companies that also try to sway conversations to suit the agenda at hand. my 2c

 

[jrp50635]

I only understand that titles like this sound like click bait.

 

[deednets]

I only understand that titles like this sound like click bait.

I think you are right on the money. I checked your profile and you have been a member here since 2001 so you would know.

Clickbait and no substance, right? But, hey, wait a minute?? You responded?? So it worked??

;-)

I personally thought there was some substance to the post, how you you then have phrased it?

 

[Impulses]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't. What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

Im with you on this one deed, i think most on these forums just like to post disagreements and opposing comments, its how i see it, i think there are a lot of members that are also reps for companies that also try to sway conversations to suit the agenda at hand. my 2c

Cashing in my check as we speak... /s

 

[Sean2019]

Flat or threaded, don't really care so long as we never see a Reddit style applied. *#$& I just despise Reddit as a forum.

 

[dazzerfong]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

You read from top to bottom?

If anything, I have to ask - how do you find a particular thread in thread view? You remember the date and time or what?

I don't see how threaded view changes the difficulties in navigating long threads. A way of managing very long threads yet maintaining a continuous view would be like Reddit.

Ok, I posted a lot on the Fuji forum. I can just go to a 50/2 travel thread I started there in 2017 and see the branches where people were getting sidetracked. In flat view the replies would be all over the place and their relationship to a sub-thread not visible. Like if a thread here reaches numbers higher than, say, 40, how can you easily see the references of posts, if people didn't leave the quote in?

Take my reply to you here as an example. If you post was long and I decided not to re-post your whole post, how would you know that my post was for you? A notification, right? Other forum participants wouldn't get that same notification as it wasn't for them?

Now, you re-read your post you made 3 weeks ago, without notification, would you even know what was posted to who?

In my 2017 portrait thread about the Fuji 50/2 I can still see who responded what and who to.

That's how. On other (more modern) forums, there's a link that takes you to the direct post rather than loading a new page. Xenforo offers that - all I have to do is go to the latest reply and then zip up.

But again, I'll say this - Reddit offers the best of both worlds. You can start from the top and follow your way down an individual thread, AND it's continuous (at least up to a certain point, then it gets dumb again)

I must say, I have issues seeing how people navigate through multiple page threads where replies are all over the show?? I get it, that you may not be interested in anything after a few hours, thanks, Facebook, but what if you are?

OK boomer.

I read from where the earliest unread post was and go from there.

 

[dazzerfong]

I only understand that titles like this sound like click bait.

I think you are right on the money. I checked your profile and you have been a member here since 2001 so you would know.

Clickbait and no substance, right? But, hey, wait a minute?? You responded?? So it worked??

;-)

I personally thought there was some substance to the post, how you you then have phrased it

1. Putting it in the right forum, for one
2. Actually saying the grievance (e.g. 'Threads are disappearing in a future update')

 

[Impulses]

Flat or threaded, don't really care so long as we never see a Reddit style applied. *#$& I just despise Reddit as a forum.

I guess I'm just an easygoing slu-... I use DPR forums, I use other traditional message boards, and I even use Reddit a fair amount heh... They all have their pros/cons, although I kinda hate the Reddit app and tend to go thru it on the browser like an oddball, even on mobile.

 

[Mike Fewster]

As I understand it, whether or not flat view will work for you depends on what you use a forum for. It's OK if you want info on a question like ' What's the best way to set up the controls on a Sony A7XX." or Compare a Sony A7XX with a CanonEOSSS." Search allows you to find the relevant posts and group them together.

Flat view is far less satisfactory if you want to share discussion on something like an image. Here there is no single answer but a range of opinions, each of which may add something to our knowledge. We want to consider them all and the backwards and forwards of discussion. In flat view, it's hopeless.

There's one approach that kind of works. It's used at The Photo

https://www.the-photo.org/

which is also flat view but where the primary aim of the site is to discuss images. It is also used by some regulars on DPR such as Roger Josem's "This Week with your..." thread. The idea is to group all the discussion in a single thread that runs for a relatively brief set time and then refreshes again. On The Photo for example, there is a weekly C&C thread. Participants post and discuss images in some depth for that week. Even though it is in flat view, the discussions can be followed, sort of, because they take place over just one week. The Photo has a relatively small number of members who are more interested in photographs than they are in gear. This, plus the weekly thread strategy, allows multifaceted discussion to take place in flat view. Similar weekly threads are available there for subjects like Street and B&W. It works for The Photo but it would breakdown if The Photo became too large.

Even so, it still works better with threaded view. Have a look ar Roger's "This week with your.." thread

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68445401

Note how the responses to a particular image are all grouped together with the image.

 

[RaysJ]

Went over to Mac Rumors to see an example and it didn't seem hard to follow. What am I missing?

Maybe a matter of personal preference, but I also had a look. Near unusable in my opinion and here is why (just one example ok?):

• The Google Pixel 10 has 911 replies, easy enough to navigate, right?
• Find a post, read it and maybe think about replying
• Try to find it again tomorrow
• Reply and your post will be no 912
• The poster of the original comment will never know if anyone replied or how to actually find it, e.g. when you find the total has gone up to 1022 posts.

Null problemo for you??

Deed

I dunno about the forum platform they're migrating to, but on a couple of audio forums I visit you get a notification (which is configurable) when someone quote-replies to you, and quotes are aromatically compressed (but can be expanded). You can also click on quotes to jump back to that message. It's different, but I don't find it any worse TBH, YMMV.

They are moving to a platform like Macrumors. Another forum that uses flat view is Fred Miranda. You know that I have a soft-spot for the Sigma 45/2.8? On Fred Miranda's site, his review has reached 66 pages, numbering starts anew on each page. I tried to re-find a certain comparison and gave up after 20 minutes or so as it's quite hard to sieve through 66 pages. On paper it sounds manageable, but I didn't think it was. I would, over time, possibly use pen and paper as replies to replies on this model can be tricky to find.

Here's an example: somebody shortened the post they were replying to, but were referring to a part that wasn't in the cropped text. I was curious as to what that was, but never found it. The reply never stated on which of those 66 pages the original post was.

You find this no better or worse than the threaded model dpreview uses? Good for you, but I found it north of frustrating to re-find posts or, worse, replies to replies, like this one.

Deed

I had a look at MacRumors, that is an upgrade? One thing l do hate about this forum, is the post limitation, some threads are just getting going then are terminated after 8 pages, but l don't see that has anything with threaded or flat format.

 

[deednets]

I only understand that titles like this sound like click bait.

I think you are right on the money. I checked your profile and you have been a member here since 2001 so you would know.

Clickbait and no substance, right? But, hey, wait a minute?? You responded?? So it worked??

;-)

I personally thought there was some substance to the post, how you you then have phrased it

1. Putting it in the right forum, for one
2. Actually saying the grievance (e.g. 'Threads are disappearing in a future update')

JRP??? Is that you??

I guess you were reading this in flat view, otherwise you would have noticed that my response wasn't for you, but for somebody calling himself jrp ...

 

[dazzerfong]

I only understand that titles like this sound like click bait.

I think you are right on the money. I checked your profile and you have been a member here since 2001 so you would know.

Clickbait and no substance, right? But, hey, wait a minute?? You responded?? So it worked??

;-)

I personally thought there was some substance to the post, how you you then have phrased it

1. Putting it in the right forum, for one
2. Actually saying the grievance (e.g. 'Threads are disappearing in a future update')

JRP??? Is that you??

I guess you were reading this in flat view, otherwise you would have noticed that my response wasn't for you, but for somebody calling himself jrp ...

You are aware others are allowed to reply to you, right? If you wanted to have a response purely from jrp, you'd have sent him a DM.

Welcome to a forum.