Every forum user needs to read and understand this

[grsnovi]

DPR is changing

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

Other thoughts?

Yes, I don't see any reason to get our collective panties in a wad.

They are doing it. What we may feel is beside the point.

I would suggest that anyone id free to create an alternative site with threaded view that matches this site, do it for free with no advertising and the world will beat a path to your door.

Was your comment meant to be satire?

Nope.

They're doing it. Get over it.

 

[deednets]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

 

[deednets]

DPR is changing

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

We need to be understanding and discussing the implications. I appreciate that the changes will allow better display of photos. Good. I rarely post my photos here and prefer to use other sites such as The Photo https://dprevived.com/c/wednesday-cc/207/ for viewing and discussing images.

But. DPR has been the only photo forum that allows threaded rather than flat view of discussion. To me, this is very important. It is DPR's greatest strength and if I understand correctly, it will be lost in the transfer to the new platform. I may be wrong, I hope I am wrong but I think Xenforo only allows flat view.

The difference is that with threaded view all the different viewpoints are gathered together and the backwards and forwards of developing opinions can be followed together. With flat view, a participant needs to search for the various responses scattered through the forum. It's too hard to follow complex and varied ideas. Discussions tend to become two way communications between the OP and each person who responds.

When we look at our current forum, all the current discussions are grouped together under relevant headings. We choose which topics interest us and joinn that discussion, or not. You can quickly see all the dicussion around a particular point grouped together.

Other thoughts?

I agree, flat view is terrible, and is the only forum, l use that has it. When l started using this forum it was set to flat, nearly gave up then l discovered threaded.

l never post any images on here.

Just out of curiosity, since this is still in threade view so I can ask questions like this: why don't you post any pics?

Deed

 

[Mike Fewster]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

Yes. I'm not pushing a point of view. I'm happy if I find flat view can work here but I can't see it. To follow a discussion it seems to me that you need to go over and over the posts making sure that you haven't missed new posts and you need to have all these scattered posts in your head when you make a post. The chance that everyone else is doing the same?

Flat view seems to me to deteriorate into a series exchanges between the OP and individual responders who may or may not have noted other views.

 

[Mike Fewster]

DPR is changing

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68444187

We need to be understanding and discussing the implications. I appreciate that the changes will allow better display of photos. Good. I rarely post my photos here and prefer to use other sites such as The Photo https://dprevived.com/c/wednesday-cc/207/ for viewing and discussing images.

But. DPR has been the only photo forum that allows threaded rather than flat view of discussion. To me, this is very important. It is DPR's greatest strength and if I understand correctly, it will be lost in the transfer to the new platform. I may be wrong, I hope I am wrong but I think Xenforo only allows flat view.

The difference is that with threaded view all the different viewpoints are gathered together and the backwards and forwards of developing opinions can be followed together. With flat view, a participant needs to search for the various responses scattered through the forum. It's too hard to follow complex and varied ideas. Discussions tend to become two way communications between the OP and each person who responds.

When we look at our current forum, all the current discussions are grouped together under relevant headings. We choose which topics interest us and joinn that discussion, or not. You can quickly see all the dicussion around a particular point grouped together.

Other thoughts?

I agree, flat view is terrible, and is the only forum, l use that has it. When l started using this forum it was set to flat, nearly gave up then l discovered threaded.

l never post any images on here.

Just out of curiosity, since this is still in threade view so I can ask questions like this: why don't you post any pics?

Deed

For image discussion, I prefer a site where the emphasis is on image appreciation rather than the gear. At The Photo https://www.the-photo.org/. that's what I find. along with a small group of experienced photographers You'll find me in the C&C section.

The Photo grew from the period when DPR looked like it was closing. It uses flat view but with an organizational device that kind of keeps discussions manageable. Kind of.

 

[Impulses]

I'm indifferent TBH, no other forum I use employs a threaded view and I know a ton of DPR users ignore it and opt for flat view... Some of us might use threaded, but replies still end up scattered all the time and many don't bother to change the subject titles. Frankly I think threaded creates more issues than it solves and I doubt I'll miss it.

 

[Impulses]

Went over to Mac Rumors to see an example and it didn't seem hard to follow. What am I missing?

Maybe a matter of personal preference, but I also had a look. Near unusable in my opinion and here is why (just one example ok?):

• The Google Pixel 10 has 911 replies, easy enough to navigate, right?
• Find a post, read it and maybe think about replying
• Try to find it again tomorrow
• Reply and your post will be no 912
• The poster of the original comment will never know if anyone replied or how to actually find it, e.g. when you find the total has gone up to 1022 posts.

Null problemo for you??

Deed

I dunno about the forum platform they're migrating to, but on a couple of audio forums I visit you get a notification (which is configurable) when someone quote-replies to you, and quotes are aromatically compressed (but can be expanded). You can also click on quotes to jump back to that message. It's different, but I don't find it any worse TBH, YMMV.

 

[Impulses]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

How is it easier with threaded view? I guess if you're keeping up with the thread then the day/hour indicators help a bit, but if you're keeping up with a thread then a flat view isn't much worse IMO... After a few days/weeks it's all the same. The notification system on other boards tends to be more powerful and makes it clear when someone replies to you...

I use threaded view now, mostly because I know it would break others' flow if I don't and at times on mobile it's slightly easier to navigate, but I can't say I'll miss it TBH. When I first started using DPR I was flat view heathen cause threaded just seemed so disorienting compared to everything else...

 

[Ruud uit de Graaf]

So happy with the threaded view. I Always use it.

 

[Impulses]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

Yes. I'm not pushing a point of view. I'm happy if I find flat view can work here but I can't see it. To follow a discussion it seems to me that you need to go over and over the posts making sure that you haven't missed new posts

Not necessarily, on other boards there's notifications and buttons to jump right back to the newest unread post in a thread even with a flat view layout, it just works differently but it's still possible to do that.

and you need to have all these scattered posts in your head when you make a post. The chance that everyone else is doing the same?

Again I dunno about the platform they're moving to, but on some of the other boards I use there's a multi quote system so you can actually reply to several people at the same time. You can add the quotes as you read/scroll and then reply between them after.

Flat view seems to me to deteriorate into a series exchanges between the OP and individual responders who may or may not have noted other views.

 

[dazzerfong]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

You read from top to bottom?

If anything, I have to ask - how do you find a particular thread in thread view? You remember the date and time or what?

I don't see how threaded view changes the difficulties in navigating long threads. A way of managing very long threads yet maintaining a continuous view would be like Reddit.

 

[deednets]

Went over to Mac Rumors to see an example and it didn't seem hard to follow. What am I missing?

Maybe a matter of personal preference, but I also had a look. Near unusable in my opinion and here is why (just one example ok?):

• The Google Pixel 10 has 911 replies, easy enough to navigate, right?
• Find a post, read it and maybe think about replying
• Try to find it again tomorrow
• Reply and your post will be no 912
• The poster of the original comment will never know if anyone replied or how to actually find it, e.g. when you find the total has gone up to 1022 posts.

Null problemo for you??

Deed

I dunno about the forum platform they're migrating to, but on a couple of audio forums I visit you get a notification (which is configurable) when someone quote-replies to you, and quotes are aromatically compressed (but can be expanded). You can also click on quotes to jump back to that message. It's different, but I don't find it any worse TBH, YMMV.

They are moving to a platform like Macrumors. Another forum that uses flat view is Fred Miranda. You know that I have a soft-spot for the Sigma 45/2.8? On Fred Miranda's site, his review has reached 66 pages, numbering starts anew on each page. I tried to re-find a certain comparison and gave up after 20 minutes or so as it's quite hard to sieve through 66 pages. On paper it sounds manageable, but I didn't think it was. I would, over time, possibly use pen and paper as replies to replies on this model can be tricky to find.

Here's an example: somebody shortened the post they were replying to, but were referring to a part that wasn't in the cropped text. I was curious as to what that was, but never found it. The reply never stated on which of those 66 pages the original post was.

You find this no better or worse than the threaded model dpreview uses? Good for you, but I found it north of frustrating to re-find posts or, worse, replies to replies, like this one.

Deed

 

[deednets]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

How is it easier with threaded view? I guess if you're keeping up with the thread then the day/hour indicators help a bit, but if you're keeping up with a thread then a flat view isn't much worse IMO... After a few days/weeks it's all the same. The notification system on other boards tends to be more powerful and makes it clear when someone replies to you...

I use threaded view now, mostly because I know it would break others' flow if I don't and at times on mobile it's slightly easier to navigate, but I can't say I'll miss it TBH. When I first started using DPR I was flat view heathen cause threaded just seemed so disorienting compared to everything else...

How is it easier? Like in my example Fred Miranda 66-page thread about the Sigma 45/2.8 there were comparisons between the 45 and other lenses. How would notifications help YOU personally to re-find a thread of replies that are potentially on a large number of pages? Say, a post, like Fred Miranda's sample page, somebody replies to on page 6, the thread grows and Fred's reply is then on page 8. The response to that on page 11 and because you only found out about this thread, your response is on page 27.

You find this easy? On your phone??

Really???

Deed

 

[deednets]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

You read from top to bottom?

If anything, I have to ask - how do you find a particular thread in thread view? You remember the date and time or what?

I don't see how threaded view changes the difficulties in navigating long threads. A way of managing very long threads yet maintaining a continuous view would be like Reddit.

Ok, I posted a lot on the Fuji forum. I can just go to a 50/2 travel thread I started there in 2017 and see the branches where people were getting sidetracked. In flat view the replies would be all over the place and their relationship to a sub-thread not visible. Like if a thread here reaches numbers higher than, say, 40, how can you easily see the references of posts, if people didn't leave the quote in?

Take my reply to you here as an example. If you post was long and I decided not to re-post your whole post, how would you know that my post was for you? A notification, right? Other forum participants wouldn't get that same notification as it wasn't for them?

Now, you re-read your post you made 3 weeks ago, without notification, would you even know what was posted to who?

In my 2017 portrait thread about the Fuji 50/2 I can still see who responded what and who to.

I must say, I have issues seeing how people navigate through multiple page threads where replies are all over the show?? I get it, that you may not be interested in anything after a few hours, thanks, Facebook, but what if you are?

Null problemo?

Deed

 

[ahaslett]

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/68445816

A

 

[deednets]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't. What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

 

[Impulses]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

How is it easier with threaded view? I guess if you're keeping up with the thread then the day/hour indicators help a bit, but if you're keeping up with a thread then a flat view isn't much worse IMO... After a few days/weeks it's all the same. The notification system on other boards tends to be more powerful and makes it clear when someone replies to you...

I use threaded view now, mostly because I know it would break others' flow if I don't and at times on mobile it's slightly easier to navigate, but I can't say I'll miss it TBH. When I first started using DPR I was flat view heathen cause threaded just seemed so disorienting compared to everything else...

How is it easier? Like in my example Fred Miranda 66-page thread about the Sigma 45/2.8 there were comparisons between the 45 and other lenses. How would notifications help YOU personally to re-find a thread of replies that are potentially on a large number of pages? Say, a post, like Fred Miranda's sample page, somebody replies to on page 6, the thread grows and Fred's reply is then on page 8. The response to that on page 11 and because you only found out about this thread, your response is on page 27.

You find this easy? On your phone??

Really???

Deed

I'm not trying to be obtuse, honestly, but how are the pages worse than the nested set of threads that after a handful of days will all say "1 month ago" or "1 year ago"? Are you finding comments by user at that point or recolecting the threaded structure or something?

When I wanna find a comment by someone I tend either look up the user's comments or I just Google it, if I know I'll really wanna reference it in the future I just bookmark it. I've gone back to that 45/2.8 thread a few times to look up the rendering comparison I remember seeing against the SY45...

 

[Impulses]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

You read from top to bottom?

If anything, I have to ask - how do you find a particular thread in thread view? You remember the date and time or what?

I don't see how threaded view changes the difficulties in navigating long threads. A way of managing very long threads yet maintaining a continuous view would be like Reddit.

Ok, I posted a lot on the Fuji forum. I can just go to a 50/2 travel thread I started there in 2017 and see the branches where people were getting sidetracked. In flat view the replies would be all over the place and their relationship to a sub-thread not visible. Like if a thread here reaches numbers higher than, say, 40, how can you easily see the references of posts, if people didn't leave the quote in?

Why would they quote any less on flat vs threaded though? If anything it's easier to multi quote in flat and people can make one comment on a broad subject without replying in multiple stub threads (that are often discussing the same things, eg this very one)...

Take my reply to you here as an example. If you post was long and I decided not to re-post your whole post, how would you know that my post was for you?

That seems like an issue regardless of UI though, yeah threaded view sometimes helps with that but it seems to me just as many people (who aren't using threaded on DPR) will randomly stick replies anywhere. Maybe not in a post like this because a bunch of us have been around a long time, but certainly in more casual threads/subjects.

A notification, right? Other forum participants wouldn't get that same notification as it wasn't for them?

Sure... I think this quote breakdown thing might be going away btw (unless you get fancy with code to edit it), which I'd probably have stronger feelings about than threaded vs flat. I feel like sometimes it helps, and sometimes it makes debates more heated than they need to be since people dislike their comments getting literally picked apart.

I used to resist doing it due to the latter but since a lot of people on DPR do, I eventually gave in...

Now, you re-read your post you made 3 weeks ago, without notification, would you even know what was posted to who?

I guess I don't understand why most people wouldn't quote if they intend their comment as a reply rather than a general contribution to the thread, and I don't often find the distinction that important...

In my 2017 portrait thread about the Fuji 50/2 I can still see who responded what and who to.

I must say, I have issues seeing how people navigate through multiple page threads where replies are all over the show?? I get it, that you may not be interested in anything after a few hours, thanks, Facebook, but what if you are?

Null problemo?

Deed

When I'm really curious about a lens I'll read that old FM thread page 1 thru whatever, in those instances it's not any worse than going thru dozens of sub threads here... I'm not sure I understand how/why you renavigate certain threads. If you find something really essential you can always bookmark it...

 

[Impulses]

Ok, I play, my response here in flat view:

I would question this as I don't believe that anyone here "knows" more than a thousand people let alone all thousand plus ever discussed flat view as the bee's knees.

(In flat view I would need to keep at least a small part of the post I was referring to in, right? In threaded view you don't.

I'd assume if you make a comment like that you're responding to the OP or the subject in general... Just like in threaded view where I don't usually quote if I'm replying to the OP/subject. OP would still get a notification, in some boards (again dunno about what DPR is using) everyone else might get a notification that XYZ made a post and there may be further posts after it, but if someone replies to them they'd get a different notification saying that (within the forum UI).

What if someone replies to a reply, like THIS POST here, not leaving in quotes of quotes? Who was this post for?)

People will break the system no matter which of the two we're using, people leave replies in random sub threads here all the time when they really meant them for the OP and they don't quote anything. Once in a while someone will ask if it was for them since it was a reply under their comment, most of the time we shrug and move on no?

In flat view I could've multi quote you and made a single comment today though, instead of replying with regards to the same subject in several different sub threads. I think it actually keeps threads shorter, whether it keeps them more on topic might come down to moderators but I think it makes their life easier TBH.

 

[deednets]

They're switching over to XenForo.

When you quote, there's a link that bounces you to thhe post that it came from. If you prefer flat view, I think it's actually superior in how it handles it as currently, if you want to go to the source post it forces you back to threaded view.

Personally I can't stand threaded view, reminds me far too much of the old PHP board days. That being said, I do miss the charm of this forum - it stands out quite uniquely to every other forum. But it also means a burgeoning tech debt.

I find it odd when people say they cannot stand threaded view. Had a look at some, possibly extreme, examples like Fred Miranda's Sigma 45/2.8 thread over 66 pages?? I tried to find a post in there, but gave up after 10 pages as I had no desire to go down the remainder of the 66 pages. Since you appear to like this: how do you actually navigate those threads?

Thanks!

Deed

How is it easier with threaded view? I guess if you're keeping up with the thread then the day/hour indicators help a bit, but if you're keeping up with a thread then a flat view isn't much worse IMO... After a few days/weeks it's all the same. The notification system on other boards tends to be more powerful and makes it clear when someone replies to you...

I use threaded view now, mostly because I know it would break others' flow if I don't and at times on mobile it's slightly easier to navigate, but I can't say I'll miss it TBH. When I first started using DPR I was flat view heathen cause threaded just seemed so disorienting compared to everything else...

How is it easier? Like in my example Fred Miranda 66-page thread about the Sigma 45/2.8 there were comparisons between the 45 and other lenses. How would notifications help YOU personally to re-find a thread of replies that are potentially on a large number of pages? Say, a post, like Fred Miranda's sample page, somebody replies to on page 6, the thread grows and Fred's reply is then on page 8. The response to that on page 11 and because you only found out about this thread, your response is on page 27.

You find this easy? On your phone??

Really???

Deed

I'm not trying to be obtuse, honestly, but how are the pages worse than the nested set of threads that after a handful of days will all say "1 month ago" or "1 year ago"? Are you finding comments by user at that point or recolecting the threaded structure or something?

When I wanna find a comment by someone I tend either look up the user's comments or I just Google it, if I know I'll really wanna reference it in the future I just bookmark it. I've gone back to that 45/2.8 thread a few times to look up the rendering comparison I remember seeing against the SY45...

I can lookup threads of mine from 2013 without Google.

I know your heart is with the SY, the cheaper and faster lens, but, since you are the advocate extraordinare for flat view, can you quickly send me a link for that SY sample shot comparison? Would be interested although I would possibly look at those pics on my 30"x2 PC setup. And whilst you're at it, also the one about the Loxia 50/2.

You DO understand that in threaded view, you can start with one, say, the SY samples and the see all responses to THAT post? How do you see all replies to the SY45 on FM in flat view? If this is so easy-peasy I would like to know.

Thank you!