D850 vs. D5: some observations

[PerfectPoms]

Nikon continues to say the D500 and D850 have the 'same' autofocus system as the D5.

But those cameras do NOT perform as well as the D5 in challenging AF situations!

Trust someone who has taken well over 100,000 photos with my D500's, and about 90,000 photos with my D850's, and well over 300,000 photos with my D5's.

There IS a reason some people will spend SO MUCH MORE for a D5.

 

[TQGroup]

Nikon continues to say the D500 and D850 have the 'same' autofocus system as the D5.

But those cameras do NOT perform as well as the D5 in challenging AF situations!

Trust someone who has taken well over 100,000 photos with my D500's, and about 90,000 photos with my D850's, and well over 300,000 photos with my D5's.

There IS a reason some people will spend SO MUCH MORE for a D5.

Totally agree with your assessment. There is a reason why the D5 and the Canon 1Dx exist and are in demand by event shooting pros.

 

[Yxa]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

I'm sure you are right. But are they the same?

This test seems to indicate not:

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/27/nikon-d850-autofocus-tracking-not-good-d5-test-finds/

The pros who use the D5 seem to agree

Speculations

Facts are that both cameras has a dedicated processor for AF

And probably the same one, that’s my speculation

 

[TQGroup]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

I'm sure you are right. But are they the same?

This test seems to indicate not:

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/27/nikon-d850-autofocus-tracking-not-good-d5-test-finds/

The pros who use the D5 seem to agree

Speculations

Facts are that both cameras has a dedicated processor for AF

And probably the same one, that’s my speculation

And thank you for your speculative opinion

 

[Old Greenlander]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

I'm sure you are right. But are they the same?

This test seems to indicate not:

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/27/nikon-d850-autofocus-tracking-not-good-d5-test-finds/

The pros who use the D5 seem to agree

I actually have the same questions and suspicions

I own D850 and D500 and use them for BIF

intersted very much in the real world difference of D5 AF capability over those cameras

That video confirms my finding with D850; is it anywhere the same comparison between D500 and D5?

thanks!

 

[Old Greenlander]

Nikon continues to say the D500 and D850 have the 'same' autofocus system as the D5.

But those cameras do NOT perform as well as the D5 in challenging AF situations!

Trust someone who has taken well over 100,000 photos with my D500's, and about 90,000 photos with my D850's, and well over 300,000 photos with my D5's.

There IS a reason some people will spend SO MUCH MORE for a D5.

PP

I am very interested in this AF first hand comparison

what subjects do you take pictures of?

 

[TQGroup]

According to Nikon's literature, the D500 and D850 both have the dedicated AF processor.

I'm sure you are right. But are they the same?

This test seems to indicate not:

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/27/nikon-d850-autofocus-tracking-not-good-d5-test-finds/

The pros who use the D5 seem to agree

I actually have the same questions and suspicions

I own D850 and D500 and use them for BIF

intersted very much in the real world difference of D5 AF capability over those cameras

That video confirms my finding with D850; is it anywhere the same comparison between D500 and D5?

thanks!

I do not own a D5. I have a D850 and a D500 and use them for BIF. Lately, its 100% D850 because I like the images better and I have the flexibility to shoot at a greater distance and crop.

Unfortunately, I can only offer hearsay on the D5 Vs the D500 for BIF. I have friends who own and shoot both and I will see what they have to say.

Cheers, Andrew

 

[Bob GB]

"The D850 uses the same field-proven ultra-accurate AF system as the flagship D5. With 153 focus points, 99 cross-type sensors and a dedicated AF processor, the D850 delivers all of its 45.7 MP performance with NIKKOR lenses. Shoot in low light to -4 EV. Capturing the most elusive subjects will feel like second nature with the D850."

from

Loading…

www.nikonusa.com

To me, it looks like the focusing module, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, as a part of that module there is a processing device. And this is the case for the D850 (and D500 as well?).

 

[PerfectPoms]

Galleries by PerfectPoms

www.pbase.com

 

[PerfectPoms]

I've tried to explain several times in this thread - that Nikon SAYS that the D500 and D850 have the SAME autofocus modules, etc as the D5, and of course, on paper, everything SOUNDS the same, and of course much of the architecture is identical, and number of focus points is the same - so in most ways they are identical BUT - in real world use, I find the D5 CONSIDERABLY better and snappier to get AF and follow AF.

I'm convinced that the D5 has more computer processing power 'under the hood' to perform AF calculations faster and more accurately.

As part of my 'evidence' I refer to previous threads here, where I believe it was Marianne Oelund who commented on the second processor in the D5 - based on her considerable knowledge of the technology in the camera. You might be able to find her post about this, but it may take considerable time or effective search techniques to find the post in the over 7,000 posts she's written here: https://www.dpreview.com/members/8931023692/overview (if it helps, I think the thread was a year ago or so)

And also, I've spent many hours reading D5 reviews, and previous reviews on the D500 and D850 and D4 and D3, etc.

 

[T O Shooter]

"The D850 uses the same field-proven ultra-accurate AF system as the flagship D5. With 153 focus points, 99 cross-type sensors and a dedicated AF processor, the D850 delivers all of its 45.7 MP performance with NIKKOR lenses. Shoot in low light to -4 EV. Capturing the most elusive subjects will feel like second nature with the D850."

from

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d850.html

To me, it looks like the focusing module, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, as a part of that module there is a processing device. And this is the case for the D850 (and D500 as well?).

That's always been the case. Armchair quarterbacks should not be allowed.

My D4 blew away the AF on my D800 / d800e

My D4 / and now D4s blew away the AF on my D810.

And while the D850 has a different AF system than my D4s, if you're pushing the AF (as I'm referring to in the "blew away" comments above), I'd pick the D4s over the D850 every time.

As a reference point, shooting the same fast moving ducks where the situation was repeated over and over, I shot the D4s with 500f4VR and TC1.7II and it AF'ed better than the D850 shooting the 500f4VR bare. (And no there's nothing wrong with the D850 - just don't pull the D4s out of the bag to shoot alongside it)

D5 is suppose to be even better, but I need no better than the D4s, so have no interest in one.

 

[Yxa]

"The D850 uses the same field-proven ultra-accurate AF system as the flagship D5. With 153 focus points, 99 cross-type sensors and a dedicated AF processor, the D850 delivers all of its 45.7 MP performance with NIKKOR lenses. Shoot in low light to -4 EV. Capturing the most elusive subjects will feel like second nature with the D850."

from

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d850.html

To me, it looks like the focusing module, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, as a part of that module there is a processing device. And this is the case for the D850 (and D500 as well?).

That's always been the case. Armchair quarterbacks should not be allowed.

My D4 blew away the AF on my D800 / d800e

My D4 / and now D4s blew away the AF on my D810.

And while the D850 has a different AF system than my D4s, if you're pushing the AF (as I'm referring to in the "blew away" comments above), I'd pick the D4s over the D850 every time.

As a reference point, shooting the same fast moving ducks where the situation was repeated over and over, I shot the D4s with 500f4VR and TC1.7II and it AF'ed better than the D850 shooting the 500f4VR bare. (And no there's nothing wrong with the D850 - just don't pull the D4s out of the bag to shoot alongside it)

D5 is suppose to be even better, but I need no better than the D4s, so have no interest in one.

Well you are an armchair Engineer and that don’t stop you from having an opinion ...

 

[T O Shooter]

"The D850 uses the same field-proven ultra-accurate AF system as the flagship D5. With 153 focus points, 99 cross-type sensors and a dedicated AF processor, the D850 delivers all of its 45.7 MP performance with NIKKOR lenses. Shoot in low light to -4 EV. Capturing the most elusive subjects will feel like second nature with the D850."

from

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/dslr-cameras/d850.html

To me, it looks like the focusing module, the Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module, as a part of that module there is a processing device. And this is the case for the D850 (and D500 as well?).

That's always been the case. Armchair quarterbacks should not be allowed.

My D4 blew away the AF on my D800 / d800e

My D4 / and now D4s blew away the AF on my D810.

And while the D850 has a different AF system than my D4s, if you're pushing the AF (as I'm referring to in the "blew away" comments above), I'd pick the D4s over the D850 every time.

As a reference point, shooting the same fast moving ducks where the situation was repeated over and over, I shot the D4s with 500f4VR and TC1.7II and it AF'ed better than the D850 shooting the 500f4VR bare. (And no there's nothing wrong with the D850 - just don't pull the D4s out of the bag to shoot alongside it)

D5 is suppose to be even better, but I need no better than the D4s, so have no interest in one.

Well you are an armchair Engineer and that don’t stop you from having an opinion ...

More than just an armchair engineer. Unlike others, I don't need to say I'm an engineer, I'm a doctor, I'm a physicist to talk about camera gear. Not into the self-important, self-righteous crap. Maybe the way I was raised. Unfortunately, doesn't stop me from being an azz on times, but I realize it. Most don't.

I'm only interested in the image. Gear is secondary but I know the AF of the above bodies by using them and pushing the AF.

And you'll find I don't give opinions about something I know nothing about. There's enough idiots without me being one.

 

[billslatteryjr]

Yes for indoor action I'd pick the D5 also. That's because the distance to subject is close enough that the extra MPs of the D850 aren't needed so much and the D5's high ISO superiority comes into play. But with the outdoor daylight sports I always take along the D850 and if I could only have one for everything it'd be the D850 with a grip. I'd rather shoot the D850 indoors in artificial light than the D5 on the field outside in daylight.

If I had to rate bodies AF wise it'd be the D5, D4S, D850 & D500 both pretty much the same and D7500 with the difference between the D5 and D850 only around 1/3 that of the difference between the D5 and D7500.

 

[drt3]

Yes for indoor action I'd pick the D5 also. That's because the distance to subject is close enough that the extra MPs of the D850 aren't needed so much and the D5's high ISO superiority comes into play. But with the outdoor daylight sports I always take along the D850 and if I could only have one for everything it'd be the D850 with a grip. I'd rather shoot the D850 indoors in artificial light than the D5 on the field outside in daylight.

You have a good point that the outdoor action advantage of the D5 lessens because more light means that the low-light sensitivity of the D5 dsoesn’t matter.

Overall, though, I think I will still be using the D5 for all action photography. Its advantages in frame rate and buffer depth are material to me.

If I had to rate bodies AF wise it'd be the D5, D4S, D850 & D500 both pretty much the same and D7500 with the difference between the D5 and D850 only around 1/3 that of the difference between the D5 and D7500.

Agree that the D5 AF advantage over the D850 is modest. Still, I was surprised to note it in my experiment, given Nikon’s advertising about the cameras having the same AF system. I use d25 area mode most of the time, with occasional d9 and group. So it wasn’t 3D, but still I noticed that the D5 locked in and seated locked in better, even though it was shooting at 12fps instead of the D850’s 9fps.

 

[PerfectPoms]

I've read at least one, and maybe two reviewers of the D5 say that 3D AF Mode works better on the D5 than with other camera models. I speculate that this may possibly be because the other cameras have less 'processing power' and the 3D Mode may benefit more from extra computational power than other AF modes - and the fact that I use 3D AF Mode about 99% of the time may account for my greater praise for the D5 than many people who use other AF modes.

 

[DAVID MANZE]

Given that all three cameras have the same extra processor...???......it could well be down to mirror black out time!........
.....I paid some attention to the differences between the VF on the D850 with what seemed like a darker VF image, against the D5's more constant VF display.......certainly the VF in the D5 has very short lived blackouts.

 

[Bob GB]

I have seen several reports concluding that the D5 AF performs better than AF in D850 and D500, so I look upon that as a fact. The next question is then why.

D850 and D500 have a battery delivering 7 Volts, compared to D5 (and D4) with 10.8 V. This allows Nikon to run the AF processor at higher speed, possible also running more complex algorithms for AF. Also the main processor (Expeed 5) probably can be clocked higher for the same reason.

Yes, I know that the battery pack for D850 and D500 can have the 10.8 V batteries but the processor speed need to work at 7 V also. Probably the processors are controlled by crystal clocks and will not change if the voltage from the pack is higher. Mirror and shutter can work faster though.

 

[T O Shooter]

Given that all three cameras have the same extra processor...???......it could well be down to mirror black out time!........
.....I paid some attention to the differences between the VF on the D850 with what seemed like a darker VF image, against the D5's more constant VF display.......certainly the VF in the D5 has very short lived blackouts.

That's not it. It might be it in some instances, but it's more than that.

I push the AF on my bodies with BIF under difficult lighting, low lighting, weather conditions, use TCs pushing up f stop, erratic birds. Sometimes more for the pushing of it to see what happens then to expect a great image.

In the worse of conditions the pro bodies D4, D4s, D5 will focus where the other bodies (D800/e, D810, D850, D750) will only hunt or fall flat on it's face. Doesn't matter that I can't explain why, all that matters is that's the way it is. On the other hand, a D5 is $4000 more than a D850 in Toronto, or near double. Not much you can buy at double the price that doesn't come with some benefits for the $$$ spent.

Am that's what I chaulk it up to. Designed as a sports and wildlife camera, and at twice the price. I don't need to rationalize it any more than that.

 

[DChapman]

I'm not doubting you at all that the D5 outperforms the 850 and 500 in the AF department. I was just pointing out that all three have a dedicated AF processor. Whether or not it's the same one, I have no idea.