D850 vs. D5: some observations

[billslatteryjr]

If ALL your zooms are Sigma's - and they stick to one zoom direction, then you can get used to that direction, BUT - I bought the Sigma 100-400 zoom when it had only been on the market for a week, and I really liked the size of the lens, and it produced very sharp images, but I would usually be using that lens at the same time as I had my 70-200 on a second camera, and I would switch back and forth between them, and if you are trying to track fast moving subjects then you absolutely NEED to have a consistent zoom direction in order to be able to instinctively twist the zoom in the correct direction to zoom in or out as your subject moves towards or away from you - but the stupid Sigma zoomed out when I turned it in the direction that my Nikon lens would zoom in.

If you ONLY used one lens then this is something you could get accustomed to - but not when using two lenses that zoom in the opposite direction and switching back and forth between them constantly during a shoot.

It's simply NOT possible to switch back and forth between opposite zooming direction lenses to follow action. You need to be able to know which direction to zoom the lens to follow your subject moving towards you or away - WITHOUT thinking about it. It has to be instinct.

Don't be so sure to speak for everybody though. That is the typical dpr disease. Someone younger or cleverer might cope, even if it's not ideal.

I had to do it on sports before. It means a fraction of a second delay when I first pick up the camera, then I got used to it with the occasional lapse maybe for a while. Could be it's good that it makes one more alert. Easy to get into a pattern where you don't think what you're doing. Taking pictures like a robot is not necessarily good.

It's a bit like dealing with a lot of different camera formats, I remember Nikon as the mount that turns the wrong way.

As a burst shooter that can shoot over 2000 shots at a game I'm with PerfectPoms when it comes to not wanting to be sport shooting with Sigma's reverse zoom. There's just too many other things for me to be thinking on than to have to be thinking about the camera too. I'm so lost in the moment that I often forget to turn the shutter back up after snipping and lose a bunch of shots that way. Now I try and make it a habit to switch out of burst mode when snipping and only lose one burst before I realize to turn the shutter speed back up.

It probably comes down to the style of shooter you are.

If the new Sigma 70-200mm Sport would have come out when the Nikon 70-200mm E did I'd probably have all Sigma zooms right now. Back then I was in love with both the Sport lenses and even shot with 150-600mm Cont. on dry days when I was going to handhold. But the old 70-200mm Sigma was so inferior to the Nikon 70-200mm VR2 that I had to shoot the Nikon for indoor winter sports and having to switch zoom directions twice a year drove me crazy all year long.

It's been well over a year since I used a Sigma zoom. Have 400K shots on the D5 and 200K shots on the D850 and still find myself zooming the wrong way on occasion. Even bought and kept Tamron's less sharp and worse focusing G2 150-600mm to replace the Sigmas. But thanks to the D850's large MP count I'm now happy to use a 200-400mm instead and swap the 150-600mm's extra reach for the lower ISO, better f4 isolation, and better focusing of the Nikon lens. Heck I've even replaced the 120-300mm f2.8 Sport on a D5 with a 200mm f2 on a D850 for night games and feel I get better results. Although the best D850 10K+ ISO photos aren't anything to be proud of. They're better than anything anyone else is getting and the newspaper, athletes and parents love them.

The failure to make Sigmas zoom the same as Nikons has cost them sales.

--
http://www.shippensburgsports.com/

 

[PerfectPoms]

Hi Bill.

If money is no object for you you might consider changing your 200-400 f4 for the new 180-400 TC lens. Being able to zoom out to 180mm and out to 400mm and with the TC zoom all the way in to 560mm (at f/5.6) gives you much more zoom range than the 200-400.

So far, I haven't found the images mine produces with the teleconverter engaged to show me every little hair with perfect clarity the way the lens does at 400mm f4, but I'm hoping the issue I had with the lens was I just didn't get the AF Fine Tune correct, and I'll be using the 180-400 on my new D5 from now on and hope the lens gives me better results at the long end with a different camera.

I find both the 180-400 and 70-200 E FL lenses focus faster than my 200 f2 and 300mm 2.8 (pre VR version - the old AF-S II). I recall reviewers saying the 200mm f2 was something like the 'fastest focusing lens there is' - but I just don't think so. (And I call the 200 f2 my 'stupid lens' because, although it does what almost no other lens can do, I hate the weight, and I love zooms so much more than my primes - because my puppies are at 400mm range often 2 seconds after they are at 200mm range - and if I try to move my old fat body to properly frame them with a prime, they USUALLY move again by the time I've set up for the shot - and if I'm using a zoom, I can stay put and take 100 shots in the time it would have taken me to move locations.)

PS: you can probably appreciate my peeve at the time some clutzy woman stepped on the hood of my 200 f2 - and bent it enough that it's still a bit of a pain to put on the lens. It's still just slightly out of round, even after I tried bending it back to round. And can you believe that the twit didn't even bother saying: 'Sorry.' She just kept walking. I would have loved to have told her the cost of the 200mm f2 lens hood. (You can get a couple of cheap lenses for the price to buy a new 200 f2 lens hood.)

 

[SushiEater]

This comes from my experience.....

If you have access to D5 and D500 try this: AF-C, 10fps, low light.

D5 slows down a little and you can hear it. D500 shoots at 10fps no matter what.

Just my experience.

I shoot with both and under these conditions, the D5 doesn't slow down at all.

Perhaps if you're using Single Point, the smaller AF point indicator is causing you to lose focus of your target, hence the slow down.

I have to because I focus on the eye.

Do a test in those conditions with 3D. Big difference, but then that's probably due to the extra processor and shorter blackout times of the D5.

I have tried but if person in low light moves 3D can't keep up especially if the person is blond all over with blue or grey eyes.

 

[SushiEater]

And many of the parts of the AF system might be the same in the 3 cameras - BUT, the fact that the D5 has an additional computer processor the other 2 cameras don't have to process AF calculations means that the D5 is CLEARLY better* for the most demanding and challenging AF subjects. (*in my experience for MY photo subjects.)

How do you know the D5 has an additional computer processor?

I have not seen anything about an extra processor in the D5. The battery comsumption does not look like that is the case either.

"The D5 is the first Nikon camera to utilize a dedicated autofocus processor. Its Multi-CAM 20K AF sensor module" Source: Imaging Resource D5 Review.

But D850 came out later so it could have dedicated AF processor too.

No mention of it on Nikon's site. Don't you think they'd market that aspect if it had it?

Nikon doesn't always mention things that are assumed. Or advertise one thing that is not that thing at all.

 

[CAT Productions]

Because my photo subjects (puppies often running around or rolling around with each other) usually require a shutter speed of 1/1,600th, I rarely shoot below ISO 800 - and it's hard to determine how much of the quality of the image is a little short-changed on the D5 because of lower dynamic range, compared to the D850 (at low ISO). In order to really see the difference, it would pretty much need the same shot to be taken with both cameras, and then compared side by side.

If my puppies are not moving, and I've got LOTS of light, I might prefer to use the D850 - but ONLY on my primes.

I find the lesser AF speed on the D850, and the rapidly decreasing image quality at higher ISO has made me hate my D850's enough that I spent all that I had to get a second D5. I usually like to have two cameras with me with two different lenses on them during most of my photo shoots, and when I had just one D5, I had a hard time deciding whether to take the D4 or D850 as my second camera, and I spent too much time moving the D5 to my second lens when the light or subject distance changed and I knew I'd be taking most of the photos with my other lens - but now that I have two 'equal' cameras as my main two cameras, I'm WAY happier; and it slows me down way less so I can just pick up my second lens and shoot away without being unhappy that I'm dealing with a lesser camera.

I'd be satisfied if the D5 IQ is equal to the D3/D700 at base ISO (and then of course so much better at higher ISO). I have a D800E that I shoot as my primary base ISO camera.

 

[PerfectPoms]

I really liked my D3 - from about 8 years ago - but sold it when I got poor

I bought a used D4 but never liked it because it over exposed a bit, and needed possibly more than an AF adjustment of more than 20 points with many of my lenses.

I think the D5 base ISO image quality is a large leap over either of those cameras.

The way I think of the D5 - is those 20 mp are GREAT megapixels. My experience with the camera has left me feeling that the D5 just seems to do 'more' with each of those 20 megapixels.

I really wasn't happy with my D4. I love my D5.

 

[Steve Bingham]

Some of us don't like race cars.

”Using them back-to-back, however, the D5 just feels like a race car compared to the nice-German-sedan feel of the D850.”

That is a very good metaphor for the differences.

 

[Steve Bingham]

Or a lowly D200 with a 12-24? . . . up close and personal.

But I think y'all are sweating too much over the small stuff. All three are very good, and I rarely see any BIF shots on here that I couldn't have got with a D50. Even more challenging ones. Not consistently, but I have no way of knowing if the blue sky / large bird shots I see on here are 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 50.

--
Steve Bingham
Latest postings are always at the bottom of each page.

 

[T O Shooter]

Or a lowly D200 with a 12-24? . . . up close and personal.

But I think y'all are sweating too much over the small stuff. All three are very good, and I rarely see any BIF shots on here that I couldn't have got with a D50. Even more challenging ones. Not consistently, but I have no way of knowing if the blue sky / large bird shots I see on here are 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 50.

Very nice shot! It's got some feeling to it.

--
A Canon G5 and a bit of Nikon gear.
---------------------------
He could be right, he could be wrong. I think he’s wrong but he says it in such a sincere way. You have to think he thinks he’s right. - Bob Dylan

 

[PerfectPoms]

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