rx100m3 and rx100m6. rx100m3 is staying home more than I thought.

rx100m3 and rx100m6. rx100m3 is staying home more than I thought, because:

1. Cell Phones

f1.8 situations, close, no reach needed: low light in restaurants, birthday parties, ...

By the time I get home (before I leave the parking lot), 50 cell phone photos have been splashed all over the world, comments, ..., and, they are all off to the next thing. Family members used to wait to see my photos, not anymore. Even if they know your's will be better, they don't care. Next! I might take a few I want, with the camera I have, that's good enough. Forget sharing, it's over, cell phones are very good up close.

2. Sports

No short range bright lens will help you, except perhaps kiddie soccer, small field, walking the line, your feet on the field, shoot when they come near you. Other sports comments next.

3. Wait for good light.

If the light's not good, move on. I do that with soccer, ice hockey, softball, amusement parks, now wrestling. Horrible weather, horrible lighting, just hope it goes quickly.

All those situations, including concerts, school events, ... want reach, not m1,2,3,4,5. Decent light, m6 get's you what you want, up to 200mm, and, I use SZ to 280mm at 10mp image size. Not long ago we would have paid a lot for 10mp. Beyond that, (because RX10's are too big for me), my Jacket Pocket Zoom is smaller 1/1.7" sensor, but a constant f2.8 lens to 300mm 2x 600mm. There is a cross over point where it beats the m6, depending on light/distance.

4. rx100m6 f2.8 is very close to rx100m3 f1.8

Certainly not equal, but not the difference I expected. It's IS and Jpeg NR, both more active than the m3, combine to allow slower handheld shutter speeds and a notch up in ISO to be used acceptably.

5. rx100m6 has a flash.

I forget my m1,3 have flashes. Today, shooting in an abandoned house with no lights, I remembered the m6 has a flash. I forgot I intended to learn how to get what I want out of the m6 flash.

That is what I did for years with my R1: 24-120mm f2.8-4.8. Let's stop and think about that: rx100m6 24-200mm f2.8-4.5 (huh, what?).

I had the R1 internal flash, and the big hot shoe flash. I keep saying, put the hot shoe back on the top of the rx100's, and toss a small hot shoe flash in the box. That's what Panasonic does with some models. Then, optionally, we could use a big flash for group shots, the wonderful hot shoe EVF, and of course a full frequency directional mic if Sony would give it a mic jack!!!!

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Close Seats, low light: bring your m1,2,3,4,5. You can do well with m6 24mm f2.8, but, especially if motion involved, f1.8-2.8 24-70mm is better than m6 24mm f2.8 start and the lens darkens quickly as you zoom just a bit.

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HIGH ISO

Not award winners, but look at the ISO's the m6 used for these

Elliott that's a great post.

High ISO is making a wonderful difference in my photography.

The days of trucking heavy tripods and lights are gone.

High ISO is as big a change for me as image stabilization was.

You use that camera very well.

We went to see this INCREDIBLE show. If it's near you, GO!!!

https://thewallx.com/tour

seats way back in the balcony, I will be posting photos soon.

Bring ear plugs. I make my own at each show with paper cocktail napkins, adjusting the thickness and density as needed.

Here's a shot from today in really difficult conditions with absolutely no clear way to get the bird, downsized to 1200x800 to reduce the "it's too noisy" comments.

Rare sight, I have only seen it once before, an Aussie Lyre Bird in full display down on the rain forest floor. Brought to our attention by the huge range of very loud bird calls that it imitates as part of the display. Obviously trying to impress some lady Lyre Bird.

The bird is kind of small chicken size and it totally hidden by the tail feathers pulled up forwards over his head. Shimmering display plus the loud bird calls to brag about his repertoire.



So for me the M6 was very useful, my friends with smartphones didn't get the same sort of image. Shown uncropped, Junk and foreground twigs are the way it was.

https://australianmuseum.net.au/learn/animals/birds/superb-lyrebird/

Regards..... Guy

I'm on the cusp of returning 5a for a 6, but one of the sticking points is that a 6 does cost 33% more. 5=$900, 6=$1200. That is a substantial difference.

Has anyone done a comparison of camera generated panoramas between:

m1/2, m3/4/5 and m6? (three different lenses)

Since pano uses the wide end of the lens and each is different at wide end there could be differences in panorama.

noisebeam said:

I'm on the cusp of returning 5a for a 6, but one of the sticking points is that a 6 does cost 33% more. 5=$900, 6=$1200. That is a substantial difference.

Click to expand...

Two big reasons make it worthwhile. First that extra amazing 70-200mm FF equivalent range on the zoom lens & secondly the improved ergonomics. If you have ever used the RX100M6 then the RX100M5A EVF is a royal pain in the butt to use.

nigelbb said:

noisebeam said:

I'm on the cusp of returning 5a for a 6, but one of the sticking points is that a 6 does cost 33% more. 5=$900, 6=$1200. That is a substantial difference.

Click to expand...

Two big reasons make it worthwhile. First that extra amazing 70-200mm FF equivalent range on the zoom lens & secondly the improved ergonomics. If you have ever used the RX100M6 then the RX100M5A EVF is a royal pain in the butt to use.

Click to expand...

I don't use the EVF much on the m5a as I wear glasses and that puts my eye too far from EVF to see the full frame unless I move it around. But I also found I push my glasses into the EVF to try and see more of the frame and that ends up pushing the pull out part back in a bit which makes everything blurry. Does the m6 have a greater distance eyepoint?

I take most shots using LCD angled out 90deg and holding camera at waist level. I can brace my arms too that way if the light is low. The only issue is if people are in the image I need to tell them to look at the camera, not me.

noisebeam said:

But I also found I push my glasses into the EVF to try and see more of the frame and that ends up pushing the pull out part back in a bit which makes everything blurry. Does the m6 have a greater distance eyepoint?

Click to expand...

The evf of m3,4,5 wonderful when it was new (sort of) pushes in very easily, a real PITA. Because I have to pull it back out so much, I forget it exists.

rx100m6 EVF does not project more, it is actually a speck recessed, however, it not only springs into working position by itself, it has good resistance, I use it with my eye glasses pressed onto it all the time, it stays out.

Either one, I have to use my left hand to shield the left side and top to block out light leakage.

I found an eyecup that slides down onto the rx100m6 EVF.


Tried it yesterday, in very bright circumstances, bright light and white snow. With eye glasses on, I still had to shield the left side and top, waste of time, except, it helps keep you nose further away from the LCD.

Without my eye glasses, the accessory eye cup was terrific, no light leak, left hand free.. So anyone without eye glasses, wanting glare blocked, the eye cup does it. It's not for everyone for sure, but ...

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Luckily, when I had cataracts removed, I put different lenses in each eye.

left eye lens goes to intermediate distance. I am able to read the info in the EVF, and see well enough to frame, see Manual Focus Peaking, see exposure adjustments.

right eye close reading, & only up to computer screen

my progressive lenses add to each eye individually for full range.

I therefore can use my left eye without my glasses with the eye cup, no light leak.

Luckily, because if I had made left reading, I could not see without my eye glasses.

elliottnewcomb said:

Luckily, when I had cataracts removed, I put different lenses in each eye.

left eye lens goes to intermediate distance. I am able to read the info in the EVF, and see well enough to frame, see Manual Focus Peaking, see exposure adjustments.

right eye close reading, & only up to computer screen

my progressive lenses add to each eye individually for full range.

I therefore can use my left eye without my glasses with the eye cup, no light leak.

Luckily, because if I had made left reading, I could not see without my eye glasses.

Click to expand...

Thanks Elliott. I too have very bad eyes. I have three pairs of glasses.

(1) Polarized progressive (mid and far distance) sunglasses I wear whenever outside which is most of my RX100 time.

(2) Then I have progressive (mid and far dist) photo-chromatic glasses for not outside.

(3) And a set of progressive (near and mid) reading/computer glasses.

I have multiple astigmatisms due to eye condition (which also makes me extra light sensitive) and there is no adjustment of viewfinder diopter that lets me see EVF clearly so I must wear glasses to use EVF.

The dark polarized glasses make the EVF very dim made worse by the light leakage.

That's a doggone shame. Sounds like you are smart enough to know what you need and get it. Not always the case.

Did a lot of research before ergonomics were thought about. Way back in the CRT days, before Progressive lenses existed, computers starting to spread, IBM research recommended a separate pair of eye glasses set for +/- 28" for typical distance to computer screens. Just leave them at work, or wherever. My progressives solve any distance for me.

Progressives are not for everybody, AND, they often make the lenses wrong, get the height of transition wrong, and people don't know to go back and have them done right. Once, the lens did not match the written order on one side. NYC, 5th AVE.!!! They did em over.

I am/was an Interior Designer, specialized in Corporate Office Space. Lighting became a big deal for me. I saw what ceiling lighting the firm was doing when I was hired, then I started hiring lighting designers, then I started designing light fixtures and did the lighting design myself.

Also, the complex problem: as we age, we need more light, but, we are more sensitive to glare.

I was one of the earliest specifiers of workstation mounted indirect lighting, 400 watt metal halide, triangulation, to avoid shadows: large areas with no shiny white ceiling grid, no light fixtures, light bounced/spread off the matte finished ceiling. First was a project for CBS. way before Tisch busted it up. We got a lot of repeat work after that.

For Fortune magazine, lots of small editors/writers offices, I designed wall mounted indirect fixtures, two rows of lamps separately switched for 50 or 100%, (fluorescent dimmers didn't exist then), bounced off the ceiling, and a custom desk mounted task light that threw the light from the side, across what you were reading/writing, thus no reflected glare front to back. The Orwelian year 1984, that's ... 35 years ago, half my age, I need a nap.

elliottnewcomb said:

That's a doggone shame.

Click to expand...

The most frustrating thing for me is for years I had this attitude that I would spend my youth exploring the wilds and taking lots of pictures, leaving less time to go thru them and develop selects into prints, etc. Then when I got older and less mobile I'd spend more time in front of computer working on the images.

But 25yr later I am still fit and explore, but I can only read my PC screen thru a narrow focus area in my glasses making that post work a frustration. I have a 24" monitor, but have to move (not just turn) my head to see the corners. Large and dual monitors do nothing for me. I also have text magnification set to max in OS.

I have fined tuned my progressives over the years and have a wide coverage version and the transition 'point' adjusted ideally for each type of glasses - the sunglasses have less of a mid distance region for example compared to the clears.

One thing I find interesting about photography is I sometimes see more in the image I take than I saw in reality!

elliottnewcomb said:

....... The Orwelian year 1984, that's ... 35 years ago, half my age, I need a nap.

Click to expand...

Nobody in my garden railway club has a simple nap, they go for a SCAN (Senior Citizens Afternoon Nap).

Thanks for the background on your lighting experience, sort of in line with how I like things. Hate those boring rows of bright overhead glarey things that most spaces use.

Regards....... Guy

noisebeam said:

nigelbb said:

noisebeam said:

I'm on the cusp of returning 5a for a 6, but one of the sticking points is that a 6 does cost 33% more. 5=$900, 6=$1200. That is a substantial difference.

Click to expand...

Two big reasons make it worthwhile. First that extra amazing 70-200mm FF equivalent range on the zoom lens & secondly the improved ergonomics. If you have ever used the RX100M6 then the RX100M5A EVF is a royal pain in the butt to use.

Click to expand...

I don't use the EVF much on the m5a as I wear glasses and that puts my eye too far from EVF to see the full frame unless I move it around. But I also found I push my glasses into the EVF to try and see more of the frame and that ends up pushing the pull out part back in a bit which makes everything blurry. Does the m6 have a greater distance eyepoint?

Click to expand...

The EVF on the RX100M6 pops up & locks in place & does not need to be pulled backwards as well therefore you couldn't push it back & out of focus with your glasses. After being used to the simple pop up EVF I found the pop up & pull out EVF of the RX100VA very annoying as I was frequently not being able to focus & missing shots through forgetting to pull the EVF out.

nigelbb said:

The EVF on the RX100M6 pops up & locks in place & does not need to be pulled backwards as well therefore you couldn't push it back & out of focus with your glasses.

Click to expand...

Wow, finally - I expected the Mk3 to have motored or at least Sprung into working position from the start given the price of these cameras , nice to see they`ve done it on the Mk6 (which in the UK sadly is comically priced for a compact - about the same as an A7 Mk2 + lens Kit or an RX10-III) .. I am amazed at the quality of the EVFs in all four versions for the size .

--
** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

The EVF on the RX100M6 pops up & locks in place & does not need to be pulled backwards as well therefore you couldn't push it back & out of focus with your glasses.

Click to expand...

Wow, finally - I expected the Mk3 to have motored or at least Sprung into working position from the start given the price of these cameras , nice to see they`ve done it on the Mk6 (which in the UK sadly is comically priced for a compact - about the same as an A7 Mk2 + lens Kit or an RX10-III) .. I am amazed at the quality of the EVFs in all four versions for the size .

Click to expand...

I don't think that the RX100M6 is "comically priced". It's a unique camera priced at what it is worth. Image quality is identical to the RX10M4 & what it lacks in zoom reach it makes up for in compactness. It's amazing that you can get a camera of this quality with amazing AF, HFR etc from a camera plus an F/2.8-4.5 24-200mm FF equivalent lens that fits in your pocket.

nigelbb said:

AdamT said:

nigelbb said:

The EVF on the RX100M6 pops up & locks in place & does not need to be pulled backwards as well therefore you couldn't push it back & out of focus with your glasses.

Click to expand...

Wow, finally - I expected the Mk3 to have motored or at least Sprung into working position from the start given the price of these cameras , nice to see they`ve done it on the Mk6 (which in the UK sadly is comically priced for a compact - about the same as an A7 Mk2 + lens Kit or an RX10-III) .. I am amazed at the quality of the EVFs in all four versions for the size .

Click to expand...

I don't think that the RX100M6 is "comically priced". It's a unique camera priced at what it is worth. Image quality is identical to the RX10M4 & what it lacks in zoom reach it makes up for in compactness. It's amazing that you can get a camera of this quality with amazing AF, HFR etc from a camera plus an F/2.8-4.5 24-200mm FF equivalent lens that fits in your pocket.

Click to expand...

At least in Germany it is not sold very often. And its price dropped by 20% in the last 6 months down to about € 1100. The psychological barrier seems to be € 1000.

So let's wait for another couple of months...

Anders_K said:

At least in Germany it is not sold very often. And its price dropped by 20% in the last 6 months down to about € 1100. The psychological barrier seems to be € 1000.

So let's wait for another couple of months...

Click to expand...

that`s £100 UK less than it is here .. still crazy money for a compact camera in this day and age Compared to Mirrorless (Sony included) and DSLR prices but that`s still cheaper than it is here . Prob even cheaper in the USA ..

Cheapest European price I can find on E-Bay is £712 to the door from Switzerland , Close to is what I`d have thought it`d have been the UK shelf price after price settling (I`d have guessed about £800) . also sounds about right to me given the price of the Panny TZ100 at £450 which hasn`t the same Quality lens, EVF, AF etc ..

EDIT - Cameracentre UK are doing "refurbished" for £949 which is getting closer and in line with Germany at least.. though what is "Refurbished" ? if its open boxes re-checked & sealed by Sony probably and worth saving the £100 for ..

--
** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

At least in Germany it is not sold very often. And its price dropped by 20% in the last 6 months down to about € 1100. The psychological barrier seems to be € 1000.

So let's wait for another couple of months...

Click to expand...

that`s £100 UK less than it is here .. still crazy money for a compact camera in this day and age Compared to Mirrorless (Sony included) and DSLR prices but that`s still cheaper than it is here . Prob even cheaper in the USA ..

Cheapest European price I can find on E-Bay is £712 to the door from Switzerland , Close to is what I`d have thought it`d have been the UK shelf price after price settling (I`d have guessed about £800) . also sounds about right to me given the price of the Panny TZ100 at £450 which hasn`t the same Quality lens, EVF, AF etc ..

EDIT - Cameracentre UK are doing "refurbished" for £949 which is getting closer and in line with Germany at least.. though what is "Refurbished" ? if its open boxes re-checked & sealed by Sony probably and worth saving the £100 for ..

Click to expand...

I bought mine for £999 from Wex about 2 weeks after the RX100M6 was released. It was used but clearly couldn't have been used much.

I still think that comparing the price to other cameras misses the point. This camera is unique. There is not another that approaches the combination of image quality & portability. I don't want a Sony A7II with a cheap kit lens as it doesn't have the reach or fit in my shirt pocket.

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

At least in Germany it is not sold very often. And its price dropped by 20% in the last 6 months down to about € 1100. The psychological barrier seems to be € 1000.

So let's wait for another couple of months...

Click to expand...

that`s £100 UK less than it is here .. still crazy money for a compact camera in this day and age Compared to Mirrorless (Sony included) and DSLR prices but that`s still cheaper than it is here . Prob even cheaper in the USA ..

Cheapest European price I can find on E-Bay is £712 to the door from Switzerland , Close to is what I`d have thought it`d have been the UK shelf price after price settling (I`d have guessed about £800) . also sounds about right to me given the price of the Panny TZ100 at £450 which won`t have the same Quality lens ..

EDIT - Cameracentre UK are doing it for £949 which is getting closer and in line with Germany at least.. Knowing them though it maybe "Refurbished" ?

Click to expand...

At amazon.co.uk it is GBP 1,285 today (about EUR 1490) delivered to Birmingham. A huge trade margin (but may be they messed up the figures because they decyphered my IP address..)

Perhaps an idea: Buy from Amazon on the continent, let the box be delivered to a post office or deposit box, pick it up from there, and enjoy a weekend in Holland. It will be tulip season soon in the Keukenhof with wonderful shooting opportunities:


BTW there are public short distance trains from Amsterdam or The Hague.