5DS vs 5d4 for image quality

I have the 5d4 and I love it.

I want to get a backup FF camera but do not want to pony up for another 5d4, and I want dual card slots so it's the 5D3 or 5Ds.

I am aware of the spec differences between all the cameras. The only annoyhing thing on the 5ds is the ISO limitation, but I can live with that for wedding work.

I am leaning towards the 5Ds on the second hand market. In my country it is not difficult to get a 5ds with low shutter count for a decent price. For reasons I am not sure, they seem to devalue more on a percentage comparison compared to other Canon stuff.

My main question is purely the IQ in comparison to the 5D4. To me the 5D4 has this great great look straight out of the camera, and I am not having to do much at all in PP to get them how I want them.

To those of you that have both, do you think they a pretty similar in terms of just the IQ, Colour and so on straight out of the camera?

Thanks

Although I don't have 5DS or 5D4 anymore, I have owned them and they are a bit different.

From a lightroom/ACR perspective, the 5DS profiles has more of the old Canon "look" if you will, with strong reds and overall quite vidid colors. That has been somewhat reduced in all the 5D4 profiles. Colors can be tweaked of course, but there's a bit more in the 5DS/r if you ask me.

General IQ though, there's little difference. The 5D4 has a bit lower res, but then again, the DR advantage.

I remember the AF being VERY good on the 5DSR. In fact, more consistent than 5D4 if I remember correctly

Thank you

Here is a quick comparison:

henrikbengtsson said:

Although I don't have 5DS or 5D4 anymore, I have owned them and they are a bit different.

From a lightroom/ACR perspective, the 5DS profiles has more of the old Canon "look" if you will, with strong reds and overall quite vidid colors. That has been somewhat reduced in all the 5D4 profiles. Colors can be tweaked of course, but there's a bit more in the 5DS/r if you ask me.

Click to expand...

The built-in LR profiles for the 5DS/R and 5D4 are all wrong if you ask me. The shadows are all plugged up by default. The aftermarket profiles from Huelight are the way to go.

boldcolors said:

General IQ though, there's little difference. The 5D4 has a bit lower res, but then again, the DR advantage.

I remember the AF being VERY good on the 5DSR. In fact, more consistent than 5D4 if I remember correctly

Click to expand...

Every other opinion of the AF that I've read here is the opposite. The difference is very slight but I'd give the nod to the 5D4 for AF. But the difference is so small it should not even be considered when comparing the two cameras.

JackM said:

henrikbengtsson said:

Although I don't have 5DS or 5D4 anymore, I have owned them and they are a bit different.

From a lightroom/ACR perspective, the 5DS profiles has more of the old Canon "look" if you will, with strong reds and overall quite vidid colors. That has been somewhat reduced in all the 5D4 profiles. Colors can be tweaked of course, but there's a bit more in the 5DS/r if you ask me.

Click to expand...

The built-in LR profiles for the 5DS/R and 5D4 are all wrong if you ask me. The shadows are all plugged up by default. The aftermarket profiles from Huelight are the way to go.

JackM said:

General IQ though, there's little difference. The 5D4 has a bit lower res, but then again, the DR advantage.

I remember the AF being VERY good on the 5DSR. In fact, more consistent than 5D4 if I remember correctly

Click to expand...

Every other opinion of the AF that I've read here is the opposite. The difference is very slight but I'd give the nod to the 5D4 for AF. But the difference is so small it should not even be considered when comparing the two cameras.

Click to expand...

Adobe acknowledged that they had messed up the 5ds profiles at some point, over emphasizing contrast and shadows. They issued a revised standard profile for the 5ds &R with some update. Unfortunately long after depreview had shot their studio comparison images and the hatched job review here. But I agree the Huelight profiles are much better and also underwent revisions. The 5ds is excellent. The DR differences to the 5d4 are very small. The AF is great and the high ISO limitations are artificial. You'd be getting a bargain.

If high speed autofocus is very important the 5DIV is your best bet.

The 5DsR (mine) is a different tool and has advantages you might want to take advantage of. Also the controls of the 5DIV and 5DsR are almost identical.

For pure IQ the 5Ds (R) is better but the 5DIV is more versatile, look at the 2 photos at the top of the thread with the loupe function and see the massive amount of detail advantage the 5DsR has over the 5DIV.

They both have their advantages, but they are 2 different animals so it depends whats important to you, 5DIV has marginally better DR, but I prefer the better detail (that's why I went with the 5DsR) but I think you'll be happy with either, just know that the versatility of the 5D IV shouldn't be underestimated.

It sounds like your choice is between a 5DIII and 5DS, so I would definitely pick the 5DS unless you need the low light ISO capabilities of the 5DIII.

The DR of the 5DS is somewhere between the 5DIII and the 5DIV, the 5DS exposure metering is more accurate than in the 5DIII.

I think Canon has deployed the low light AF SW from 1DX in the 5DS(R) because my 5DSR 'slow light AF sensitivity is comparable to my 5DIV, but the 5DSR uses longer time to perform the AF. That feature came to 1DX with one of the SW upgrades, but it is not implemented for the 5DIII.

henrikbengtsson said:

Although I don't have 5DS or 5D4 anymore, I have owned them and they are a bit different.

From a lightroom/ACR perspective, the 5DS profiles has more of the old Canon "look" if you will, with strong reds and overall quite vidid colors. That has been somewhat reduced in all the 5D4 profiles. Colors can be tweaked of course, but there's a bit more in the 5DS/r if you ask me.

General IQ though, there's little difference. The 5D4 has a bit lower res, but then again, the DR advantage.

I remember the AF being VERY good on the 5DSR. In fact, more consistent than 5D4 if I remember correctly

Click to expand...

I always get a chuckle from how people compare things. The cameras are a bit different, but the 5D4 has a bit lower res....

The 5DS has like 20MP more pixels than the 5D4. That's like an entire extra sensor (a 6D has 20 MPs). That's like 2/3 more pixels or 66% more pixels. That's a rather big "bit" if you ask me.

So, if the resolution is only a bit better for the 5DS, what actually does "more consistent" mean in your world? I would take that to mean vastly superior...which I find very hard to believe.

Anyway, I'm just kidding here. No biggie. I know you were just using causal language...again, I get a chuckle from this is all.

George Zip said:

I have the 5d4 and I love it.

I want to get a backup FF camera but do not want to pony up for another 5d4, and I want dual card slots so it's the 5D3 or 5Ds.

I am aware of the spec differences between all the cameras. The only annoyhing thing on the 5ds is the ISO limitation, but I can live with that for wedding work.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about that. You can simply underexpose. Here's a sample shot at ISO 6400 with -1 1/3 stops EC.

George Zip said:

I am leaning towards the 5Ds on the second hand market. In my country it is not difficult to get a 5ds with low shutter count for a decent price. For reasons I am not sure, they seem to devalue more on a percentage comparison compared to other Canon stuff.

My main question is purely the IQ in comparison to the 5D4. To me the 5D4 has this great great look straight out of the camera, and I am not having to do much at all in PP to get them how I want them.

Click to expand...

I suspect straight out of the camera you will not find much difference. I've not used a 5D4, so, unfortunately, I cannot do a comparison.

ffabrici said:

It sounds like your choice is between a 5DIII and 5DS, so I would definitely pick the 5DS unless you need the low light ISO capabilities of the 5DIII.

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the ability to dial in a higher ISO setting? If not, I don't think there's an advantage to the 5D Mark III. Just dial in some negative exposure compensation and adjust in post for an equivalent result.

Thanks.

The reason I asked is, I read somewhere that the 5ds/r's sensor is very similar to the 7DII in terms of IQ... Now I love the 7dII and at low ISO's outdoors I am hard pressed to tell the differences between it and the the 5d4. It's there, but nothing to get concerned about.

But.... get indoors with mixed lighting and that's where the 7d2 "fails" compared to the 5d4. The files look nowhere near as good IMO. I am not talking high ISO's necessarily, just crummy light in general. For reasons I do not know, the 5d4 does a much better job. Real world e.g.: I shot a reception with the 5d4 with the 70-200 and the 7d2 with the 35 1.4 so I had real comparisons. The 7D2 just does;t handle that well. I just bounce flash on the 7d2 now to overcome that, but it would be nice to avoid actually having to do that so you have a choice.

Now, I do not have the tech knowledge to know whether this is a characteristic of a smaller sensor compared to FF, or a sensor characteristic itself. Hope that makes sense.

So I guess a more specific question would be

1) is it true the 5ds uses a very similar sensor to the 7dII and does that matter? Does the fact it is FF "fix" the problems I perceive above.

2) Shooting at say ISO 3200 for e.g., in a mixed lighting situation, would it be close to the 5D4.

Lastly I hope this makes sense, it is difficult to explain what I mean in text.

ffabrici said:

It sounds like your choice is between a 5DIII and 5DS, so I would definitely pick the 5DS unless you need the low light ISO capabilities of the 5DIII.

Click to expand...

Nonsense. 5DS/R beats 5DIII on every point - except a hair slower fps.

ffabrici said:

I think Canon has deployed the low light AF SW from 1DX in the 5DS(R) because my 5DSR 'slow light AF sensitivity is comparable to my 5DIV

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Having used and reviewed both I do not believe their is any difference in AF speed - at all. And this is especially true in low light.

5DIV has one real advantage which is live view AF. If you like to use that.

maiaibing said:

5DIV has one real advantage which is live view AF. If you like to use that.

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I actually use that a bit. With the touch shutter feature. It's really useful.

Good exaple is is the stand on a chair and hold your camera up for group shots. Also the low stuff.

Its ts also useful for adjusting exposure.

One me last thing I like is to get candids, I'll frame up say a group shot and before if put it to my eye I may rattle a few shots out using the touch feature and also after the "real" shot. You,get some good real moments.

You may be confused because they have the same pixel density, otherwise they are completely different sensors.

a good way of thinking of this comparison is the 5dsr is a 5d3 on steroids with 50mp, whilst the 5d4 is a general improvement in every area of the 5d3.

George Zip said:

maiaibing said:

5DIV has one real advantage which is live view AF. If you like to use that.

Click to expand...

I actually use that a bit. With the touch shutter feature. It's really useful.

Good exaple is is the stand on a chair and hold your camera up for group shots. Also the low stuff.

Its ts also useful for adjusting exposure.

One me last thing I like is to get candids, I'll frame up say a group shot and before if put it to my eye I may rattle a few shots out using the touch feature and also after the "real" shot. You,get some good real moments.

Click to expand...

Agree. Would be a real killer option if only the 5DIV also had a swivel screen.

But touch screens are as such a blast to use and should probably have been highlighted above as a great 5DIV feature in itself in addition to live view/video.

I have no experience with either camera, but I would expect the full frame sensor to be a lot better than the crop sensor 7DII in low light in terms of noise. And pretty sure that is the previous generation sensor too (4 years old). You might want to recheck that info.

expro said:

You may be confused because they have the same pixel density, otherwise they are completely different sensors.

a good way of thinking of this comparison is the 5dsr is a 5d3 on steroids with 50mp, whilst the 5d4 is a general improvement in every area of the 5d3.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I was confused.