DXO deep prime processing times

[tomhongkong]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1 could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great (gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

Thank you, everyone, for replying.

There are now too many responses for me to respond individually, but all the input is much appreciated.

So far as I can judge from the replies, the DXO forum and its spreadsheet, the most cost effective hardware solution for DXO processing is to use a Mac Mini M1, (4+4 cores, 8 GPU and 16 NE) and with 16Mb. It will also need an external SD card reader and library SSD. I am hopeful that I will get <10sec deep prime exports with this set-up.

I could possibly do better with a full blown desktop and fast GPU, but at the expense of deskspace and $$$

DXO should be updated to PL5 with this Apple configuration as it takes advantage of the M1 NEs, There is little performance advantage in using PL5 over PL4 for non Apple users but there are a few new features which could be useful. I have ordered the upgrade before the 'deal' expires on Nov 14th (I am sure it will be back, though)

I will order the Mac Mini next week (I am stuck in hotel quarantine in Hong Kong until then)

I have not decided on how much storage I should order, it is very tempting to keep it low and use an external SSD for library which can be transferred to one of my other machines.

If anyone thinks I am making a terrible mistake, please tell me. I will report back on the results and at the same time make a spreadsheet of all the useful experience which people have shared in this thread

Once again, many thanks

tom

 

[Raist3d]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup). The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

 

[Interceptor121]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup). The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

My macbook pro is coming to 3 years and the macbook air with 8 cores (upgrade version) looks interesting if it can also deal with final cut pro

Can it play S5/GH5 10 bit files ok? that is the main question

 

[Jim Vincent]

Have you checked out the many videos on YouTube regarding the performance of the MacBook M1's on Final Cut?

Here's a recent one comparing the 13" M1 Pro vs the new 16" MacBook MAX with 64 gb.

The MAX is 2x the speed of the M1 Pro (which probably isn't much different than the Air) if you really need the speed.

Or, there's this older video of a guy using Final Cut on an 8 gb Air (he's happy with it). He's using a sony camera at 4k for all his source material. Don't know if that helps answer your question.

 

[Interceptor121]

Have you checked out the many videos on YouTube regarding the performance of the MacBook M1's on Final Cut?

Here's a recent one comparing the 13" M1 Pro vs the new 16" MacBook MAX with 64 gb.

The MAX is 2x the speed of the M1 Pro (which probably isn't much different than the Air) if you really need the speed.

Or, there'sthis older video of a guy using Final Cut on an 8 gb Air (he's happy with it). He's using a sony camera at 4k for all his source material. Don't know if that helps answer your question.

That is not the issue. The problem is H264 10 bits that is not hardware accelerated. I use this for all my materials. Any laptop I have tried stutters with it

 

[Jacques Cornell]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos

 

[Interceptor121]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

It is consistent with results on Dxo forum which I think you posted as well

The fact is that DxO DeepPrime is taking advantage of neural engine not of GPU so the performance is even higher

I am not convinced about 16 GB for a mini I run mine with 32 GB and I see many reports of out of memory crash however for the laptop a macbook air this looks very interesting for editing pictures on the go

 

[Raist3d]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

 

[Interceptor121]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

The analysis is run at the beginning for the batch so when you process multiple images the average per image is faster than a single one

this is true regardless of M1 or neural engine

 

[Eightace]

Just got the demo today, dunno if that makes any difference.

With my 2600x and rtx 2070 it takes about 40 seconds to process a GX9 raw file using cpu and 10 when using gpu.

 

[Henry Richardson]

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

That model has only 8gb of unified memory so those times are very impressive!

8gb Apple M1 Chip with 8-Core CPU and 7-Core GPU 256GB Storage

https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

 

[Henry Richardson]

So far as I can judge from the replies, the DXO forum and its spreadsheet, the most cost effective hardware solution for DXO processing is to use a Mac Mini M1, (4+4 cores, 8 GPU and 16 NE) and with 16Mb. It will also need an external SD card reader and library SSD. I am hopeful that I will get <10sec deep prime exports with this set-up.

I could possibly do better with a full blown desktop and fast GPU, but at the expense of deskspace and $$$

DXO should be updated to PL5 with this Apple configuration as it takes advantage of the M1 NEs, There is little performance advantage in using PL5 over PL4 for non Apple users but there are a few new features which could be useful. I have ordered the upgrade before the 'deal' expires on Nov 14th (I am sure it will be back, though)

I will order the Mac Mini next week (I am stuck in hotel quarantine in Hong Kong until then)

I have not decided on how much storage I should order, it is very tempting to keep it low and use an external SSD for library which can be transferred to one of my other machines.

If anyone thinks I am making a terrible mistake, please tell me. I will report back on the results and at the same time make a spreadsheet of all the useful experience which people have shared in this thread

I am very impressed by the M1 Mac Mini too. A few months ago I thought about getting one and switch from Windows. I use Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, Topaz programs, etc. I am still sort of thinking about it, but I did discover some issues that make me somewhat reluctant. If I was in the U.S. I would just get one and try it out because it is usually easy to return stuff for a refund. Here in Japan though it is generally the case that you can't just return stuff because you change your mind or find some issues. Here are some threads you may want to look at:

M1 Mac Mini from Windows

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443663

Less SSD swapping with 16gb?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443510

Mac Mini problems with monitors, cables

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65446694

Video of guy with monitor problem

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65447312

Read this and the comments:

Bad News About the M1 Mac mini (the Blog I Didn’t Want to Write)

https://markellisreviews.com/bad-news-about-the-m1-mac-mini-the-blog-i-didnt-want-to-write/

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

 

[Raist3d]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

The analysis is run at the beginning for the batch so when you process multiple images the average per image is faster than a single one

this is true regardless of M1 or neural engine

not sure what you mean by the analysis if you mean the deep prime calculations it doesn’t run all of them at the beginning of the batch

 

[tomhongkong]

So far as I can judge from the replies, the DXO forum and its spreadsheet, the most cost effective hardware solution for DXO processing is to use a Mac Mini M1, (4+4 cores, 8 GPU and 16 NE) and with 16Mb. It will also need an external SD card reader and library SSD. I am hopeful that I will get <10sec deep prime exports with this set-up.

I could possibly do better with a full blown desktop and fast GPU, but at the expense of deskspace and $$$

DXO should be updated to PL5 with this Apple configuration as it takes advantage of the M1 NEs, There is little performance advantage in using PL5 over PL4 for non Apple users but there are a few new features which could be useful. I have ordered the upgrade before the 'deal' expires on Nov 14th (I am sure it will be back, though)

I will order the Mac Mini next week (I am stuck in hotel quarantine in Hong Kong until then)

I have not decided on how much storage I should order, it is very tempting to keep it low and use an external SSD for library which can be transferred to one of my other machines.

If anyone thinks I am making a terrible mistake, please tell me. I will report back on the results and at the same time make a spreadsheet of all the useful experience which people have shared in this thread

I am very impressed by the M1 Mac Mini too. A few months ago I thought about getting one and switch from Windows. I use Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, Topaz programs, etc. I am still sort of thinking about it, but I did discover some issues that make me somewhat reluctant. If I was in the U.S. I would just get one and try it out because it is usually easy to return stuff for a refund. Here in Japan though it is generally the case that you can't just return stuff because you change your mind or find some issues. Here are some threads you may want to look at:

M1 Mac Mini from Windows

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443663

Less SSD swapping with 16gb?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443510

Mac Mini problems with monitors, cables

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65446694

Video of guy with monitor problem

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65447312

Read this and the comments:

Bad News About the M1 Mac mini (the Blog I Didn’t Want to Write)

https://markellisreviews.com/bad-news-about-the-m1-mac-mini-the-blog-i-didnt-want-to-write/

Henry

Thank you for your reply. Like you describe in Japan, here in Hong Kong there is generally no culture of returning something once bought, so making the right choice is important.

There are some warnings in those posts which are worthwhile taking note of, the general impression I get is that I may have to do a bit of fiddling to get everything connected.....the biggest problem being bluetooth for keyboard and mouse. Mind you I hate bluetooth anyway it seems so iffy on lots of devices not just Mac Minis, connection problems, slow transfer and delays. My current keyboard/mouse are wifi with a USB dongle.

A bigger issue for me is that Fast Picture Viewer is an essential part of my workflow and it does not run on Mac. If anyone can recommend a fast MAC viewer for RAWs, giving one click to expand to 100% or 200%, and one click to copy the image into a 'save' folder I would be very grateful. I don't need editing at that point in the workflow, just the ability to cull. I will use DXO PL5 for my main PP.

Thanks again

tom

 

[Henry Richardson]

I am very impressed by the M1 Mac Mini too. A few months ago I thought about getting one and switch from Windows. I use Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, Topaz programs, etc. I am still sort of thinking about it, but I did discover some issues that make me somewhat reluctant. If I was in the U.S. I would just get one and try it out because it is usually easy to return stuff for a refund. Here in Japan though it is generally the case that you can't just return stuff because you change your mind or find some issues. Here are some threads you may want to look at:

M1 Mac Mini from Windows

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443663

Less SSD swapping with 16gb?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443510

Mac Mini problems with monitors, cables

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65446694

Video of guy with monitor problem

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65447312

Read this and the comments:

Bad News About the M1 Mac mini (the Blog I Didn’t Want to Write)

https://markellisreviews.com/bad-news-about-the-m1-mac-mini-the-blog-i-didnt-want-to-write/

Henry

Thank you for your reply. Like you describe in Japan, here in Hong Kong there is generally no culture of returning something once bought, so making the right choice is important.

There are some warnings in those posts which are worthwhile taking note of, the general impression I get is that I may have to do a bit of fiddling to get everything connected.....the biggest problem being bluetooth for keyboard and mouse. Mind you I hate bluetooth anyway it seems so iffy on lots of devices not just Mac Minis, connection problems, slow transfer and delays. My current keyboard/mouse are wifi with a USB dongle.

As long as you don't mind possibly having to possibly buy a new monitor, new cables, etc. also then go for it. And then being stuck with all that stuff if it doesn't work. Of course, I imagine that most people have no problems, but I had never heard of any problems with connecting a working monitor (even working on another Mac) and discovering it won't work with the M1 Mac Mini. In my case, if I bought it here in Japan I would ONLY want to buy the Mac and then buy a keyboard. I want to continue using my current monitors, etc. and I don't want to suddenly be faced with having to buy lots of new stuff and it being a crap shoot whether it will work together. I guess too many years of using Windows where stuff just works. As I said though, if I was in the States I would just order one and try it with my other gear and software. Send it back if there were problems. In Japan that is much more problematic though. Oh, and also the issue for me of my NTFS formatted 2tb external SSD.

A bigger issue for me is that Fast Picture Viewer is an essential part of my workflow and it does not run on Mac. If anyone can recommend a fast MAC viewer for RAWs, giving one click to expand to 100% or 200%, and one click to copy the image into a 'save' folder I would be very grateful. I don't need editing at that point in the workflow, just the ability to cull. I will use DXO PL5 for my main PP.

By the way, was it you a few months ago who was asking about the Olympus 12-200mm? I bought one recently and here is a thread I started about it:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65611240

You will have read my multiple posts in the thread as I provide more photo samples (raw and JPEGs) and more information.

I will note that since you use DXO then it can use their custom lens profile and probably get much better edge-to-edge sharpness from it than Lightroom. DXO is famous for how they can improve a lens.

If you get the M1 Mac Mini please let me know what you think. I am very interested.

--
Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

 

[Jacques Cornell]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

The analysis is run at the beginning for the batch so when you process multiple images the average per image is faster than a single one

this is true regardless of M1 or neural engine

not sure what you mean by the analysis if you mean the deep prime calculations it doesn’t run all of them at the beginning of the batch

The speed really matters to me only when I'm running big batches. I've gotten the same per-image results on 20-image and 400-image batch runs.

 

[Jacques Cornell]

So far as I can judge from the replies, the DXO forum and its spreadsheet, the most cost effective hardware solution for DXO processing is to use a Mac Mini M1, (4+4 cores, 8 GPU and 16 NE) and with 16Mb. It will also need an external SD card reader and library SSD. I am hopeful that I will get <10sec deep prime exports with this set-up.

I could possibly do better with a full blown desktop and fast GPU, but at the expense of deskspace and $$$

DXO should be updated to PL5 with this Apple configuration as it takes advantage of the M1 NEs, There is little performance advantage in using PL5 over PL4 for non Apple users but there are a few new features which could be useful. I have ordered the upgrade before the 'deal' expires on Nov 14th (I am sure it will be back, though)

I will order the Mac Mini next week (I am stuck in hotel quarantine in Hong Kong until then)

I have not decided on how much storage I should order, it is very tempting to keep it low and use an external SSD for library which can be transferred to one of my other machines.

If anyone thinks I am making a terrible mistake, please tell me. I will report back on the results and at the same time make a spreadsheet of all the useful experience which people have shared in this thread

I am very impressed by the M1 Mac Mini too. A few months ago I thought about getting one and switch from Windows. I use Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, Topaz programs, etc. I am still sort of thinking about it, but I did discover some issues that make me somewhat reluctant. If I was in the U.S. I would just get one and try it out because it is usually easy to return stuff for a refund. Here in Japan though it is generally the case that you can't just return stuff because you change your mind or find some issues. Here are some threads you may want to look at:

M1 Mac Mini from Windows

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443663

Less SSD swapping with 16gb?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443510

Mac Mini problems with monitors, cables

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65446694

Video of guy with monitor problem

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65447312

Read this and the comments:

Bad News About the M1 Mac mini (the Blog I Didn’t Want to Write)

https://markellisreviews.com/bad-news-about-the-m1-mac-mini-the-blog-i-didnt-want-to-write/

Henry

Thank you for your reply. Like you describe in Japan, here in Hong Kong there is generally no culture of returning something once bought, so making the right choice is important.

There are some warnings in those posts which are worthwhile taking note of, the general impression I get is that I may have to do a bit of fiddling to get everything connected.....the biggest problem being bluetooth for keyboard and mouse. Mind you I hate bluetooth anyway it seems so iffy on lots of devices not just Mac Minis, connection problems, slow transfer and delays. My current keyboard/mouse are wifi with a USB dongle.

A bigger issue for me is that Fast Picture Viewer is an essential part of my workflow and it does not run on Mac. If anyone can recommend a fast MAC viewer for RAWs, giving one click to expand to 100% or 200%, and one click to copy the image into a 'save' folder I would be very grateful. I don't need editing at that point in the workflow, just the ability to cull. I will use DXO PL5 for my main PP.

Thanks again

tom

My Bluetooth Apple Magic Trackpad 2 has worked flawlessly for years, first with my cylinder Mac Pro and now with my M1 mini. I have a USB Apple Extended Keyboard connected to my display which is connected to a 7-port USB3 hub which is plugged into the mini. No issues at all. And, yeah, I prefer a wired keyboard just because you can use the keys to control boot processes, which, in the past, at least, wasn't always possible with a Bluetooth keyboard.

 

[Raist3d]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

The analysis is run at the beginning for the batch so when you process multiple images the average per image is faster than a single one

this is true regardless of M1 or neural engine

not sure what you mean by the analysis if you mean the deep prime calculations it doesn’t run all of them at the beginning of the batch

The speed really matters to me only when I'm running big batches. I've gotten the same per-image results on 20-image and 400-image batch runs.

That's understandable, I just want to see why our results differ a bit. I haven't tried running in batches or GX9 runs in a batch so I'll try that soon. Thanks for the reply.

 

[tomhongkong]

I am very impressed by the M1 Mac Mini too. A few months ago I thought about getting one and switch from Windows. I use Lightroom Classic, Photoshop, Topaz programs, etc. I am still sort of thinking about it, but I did discover some issues that make me somewhat reluctant. If I was in the U.S. I would just get one and try it out because it is usually easy to return stuff for a refund. Here in Japan though it is generally the case that you can't just return stuff because you change your mind or find some issues. Here are some threads you may want to look at:

M1 Mac Mini from Windows

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443663

Less SSD swapping with 16gb?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65443510

Mac Mini problems with monitors, cables

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65446694

Video of guy with monitor problem

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65447312

Read this and the comments:

Bad News About the M1 Mac mini (the Blog I Didn’t Want to Write)

https://markellisreviews.com/bad-news-about-the-m1-mac-mini-the-blog-i-didnt-want-to-write/

Henry

Thank you for your reply. Like you describe in Japan, here in Hong Kong there is generally no culture of returning something once bought, so making the right choice is important.

There are some warnings in those posts which are worthwhile taking note of, the general impression I get is that I may have to do a bit of fiddling to get everything connected.....the biggest problem being bluetooth for keyboard and mouse. Mind you I hate bluetooth anyway it seems so iffy on lots of devices not just Mac Minis, connection problems, slow transfer and delays. My current keyboard/mouse are wifi with a USB dongle.

As long as you don't mind possibly having to possibly buy a new monitor, new cables, etc. also then go for it. And then being stuck with all that stuff if it doesn't work. Of course, I imagine that most people have no problems, but I had never heard of any problems with connecting a working monitor (even working on another Mac) and discovering it won't work with the M1 Mac Mini. In my case, if I bought it here in Japan I would ONLY want to buy the Mac and then buy a keyboard. I want to continue using my current monitors, etc. and I don't want to suddenly be faced with having to buy lots of new stuff and it being a crap shoot whether it will work together. I guess too many years of using Windows where stuff just works. As I said though, if I was in the States I would just order one and try it with my other gear and software. Send it back if there were problems. In Japan that is much more problematic though. Oh, and also the issue for me of my NTFS formatted 2tb external SSD.

A bigger issue for me is that Fast Picture Viewer is an essential part of my workflow and it does not run on Mac. If anyone can recommend a fast MAC viewer for RAWs, giving one click to expand to 100% or 200%, and one click to copy the image into a 'save' folder I would be very grateful. I don't need editing at that point in the workflow, just the ability to cull. I will use DXO PL5 for my main PP.

By the way, was it you a few months ago who was asking about the Olympus 12-200mm? I bought one recently and here is a thread I started about it:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/65611240

You will have read my multiple posts in the thread as I provide more photo samples (raw and JPEGs) and more information.

I will note that since you use DXO then it can use their custom lens profile and probably get much better edge-to-edge sharpness from it than Lightroom. DXO is famous for how they can improve a lens.

If you get the M1 Mac Mini please let me know what you think. I am very interested.

Yes I will update....cannot do anything until I finish this stupid HK quarantine Grrrrrr.

It probably was me asking about the 12-200 I am still on the fence, but reading all the posts from you and Yannis and others

tom

 

[Jacques Cornell]

I have been trying to understand the advantages of different graphics processors when running Deep Prime. I readily admit to only a bit of knowledge, which gets me very confused when comparing benchmarks etc. I wonder whether members of this forum could share some actual processing times to clarify?

I find that Deep Prime is truly a game changer when it comes to M4/3 (and smaller) sensor IQ . Having a processing time which makes it practical to use as a matter of course would be a great advantage for me. Currently, with both my desktop and laptop PCs being limited to integrated graphics means that image processing for an uncropped M4/3 image takes between 2min 30 and 3min depending on machine. Processing more than a few images from a shoot therefore becomes tedious.

My $999 entry-level M1 MacBook Air processes 42MP a7RIII RAWs with DeepPRIME and lots of other adjustments applied in 10 seconds each with PhotoLab 5 Elite. 20MP M4/3 RAWs take under 5 seconds.

It's fast but 5 seconds? I am seeing 6-10 seconds which is still pretty fast. You sure you aren't processing cropped shots? . Those process faster.

Yes, I'm sure, at least on my M1 Mini. I expect the MBA to perform similarly, as it has the same 16-core Neural Engine. I don't have time now, though, to test the MBA.

For whatever reason I am not getting 4-5 seconds, unless the file is cropped or its < 20 MP. I get 6-10 seconds.

I would happily upgrade my desktop PC or Mac if I knew there would be substantial benefits. (As an alternative to spending more on faster, bigger, lenses) Adding an eGPU to my existing desktop would not make be economic sense.

Hence my hope that the forum could help with actual figures. It appears that a Mac Mini M1

I have one of those, too. Similar results.

All the M1 Macs will do very similar. The Air is the one that apparently throttles more and still should do pretty fast.

could be a very cost effective solution for a desktop so real experience with that would be very useful. I typically carry a lightweight laptop when I travel (Lenovo X1 Carbon or old Macbook pro) so a lightweight laptop suggestion would also be great

See above.

(gaming laptops generally seem very big/heavy) Is an M1 Macbook a solution? (Not the new Macbook pro, that is out of reach)

Of course there is the added complication of PL5 upgrade, but from what I read it does not have much benefit for my use.

PL5 is three times faster at processing DeepPRIME than PL4 on an M1 Mac. Huge benefit, and the upgrade costs just $80.

Sounds about right (about 2.2x speedup).

I just ran a batch of 20 GX9 RAWs (ISO 200-1250) through PL4 and PL5 on my M1 Mac mini with optical corrections and DeepPRIME applied. PL4 took 15.55 seconds per image. PL5 took 4.35 seconds, almost 4x faster. I've had proportionately fast results with 30MP 5DIV RAWs (7.5 seconds) and 42MP a7RIII RAWs (10 seconds).

Maybe I should run a batch and see what I get, of the GX9 files. Thanks for the reply.

The interesting part is that by using the ANE the GPU is pretty much idling (did an Instruments Xcode traces to confirm)- this means you can be using some other app that is GPU heavy and shouldn't slow down much.

Help would be much appreciated

thanks

tom

The analysis is run at the beginning for the batch so when you process multiple images the average per image is faster than a single one

this is true regardless of M1 or neural engine

not sure what you mean by the analysis if you mean the deep prime calculations it doesn’t run all of them at the beginning of the batch

The speed really matters to me only when I'm running big batches. I've gotten the same per-image results on 20-image and 400-image batch runs.

That's understandable, I just want to see why our results differ a bit. I haven't tried running in batches or GX9 runs in a batch so I'll try that soon. Thanks for the reply.

There may be more efficiency from assigning, say, two NPU cores to each of eight images than sixteen cores to one image. The preference setting that lets us designate simultaneous processing of up to eight images seems to hint at this.

--
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." - George Bernard Shaw
http://jacquescornell.photography
http://happening.photos