Why no flash?

[GB21914]

You should return it and by that new camera Canon just released. It's newer than the 5dmkII and should be SO much better. No...really...there's no sarcasm here at all.

If you buy a car, you have to buy gas...if you buy a premium car...you buy premium gas.

You bought a premium camera...now you HAVE to buy a premium flash and premium lenses. Welcome to the premium club, can't wait to see some of your photo's.

--
Greg B
http://www.bainwerx.com

Canon 5DmkII / grip
Canon 24-70mm f2.8 , 50mm f1.8
Sigma 70-200mm, 2x Teleconvertor

'A good camera does not a good photographer make.'

 

[customminds]

nt


--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/customminds/
fun photos

http://www.customminds.com

 

[Lee Jay]

Pop up flashes don't work best for macro anyway - in fact not at all
with longer macro lens. If you are going to shoot a lot of macro, you
might want to look into micro flash units for best results. We, the
good helpful folk at Dpreview, wouldn't want to lead you astray in
thinking that a pop up flash or even a regular flash gun is best for
macro photography.

Or you might want to buy a GOOD flash like the 580EX with many more
features for even BETTER flash photography.

Or, you might want to buy some Alien Bees or Elinchromes with far
more power and accessory flexibility than any of the Canon flashes.

AlienBees, Elinchromes and other studio strobes aren't as portable as
a 580EX, nor will they fit into as small a space...

And the 580EX isn't as portable as the pop-up, hence our wishes for a pop-up.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[kyjy]

A 1000 pardons, it wasn't in my Webster's.
What's the definition of "Geez"?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geez

And you're the authority on when it is appropriate to use a DSLR?

Yes. Someone has to be, you clearly are not.

And you are?

And why is it anybody's business where anybody else uses their DSLR?

1. You erroneously assume that won't "accept" the idea of a pop-up
flash on a DSLR.

OK sorry. So a pop-up flash on a 5D is OK then?

2. You erroneously assume I advocate using a P&S "because" it has a
built-in flash.

You certainly made it sound that way.

Where to begin?
I agree with Canon's choice not to put pop ups in their 5D and 1D
line of cameras.

Why? I can see that it may be wasted on the average 1D user, but what, differentiates the 5D from 40D as far as the flash is concerned? They're the same size body, they handle almost exactly the same, so why is taking a 5D along for an evening out any different from taking my 40D?

I advocate using a P&S when they are the right tool for the job.

There are very few circumstances when I consider a P&S to be "the right tool for the job" if I have the option to use a DSLR, especially if the "job" involves using the built-in flash.

 

[Michael_J]

A 1000 pardons, it wasn't in my Webster's.
What's the definition of "Geez"?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/geez

Thank you.

And you're the authority on when it is appropriate to use a DSLR?

Yes. Someone has to be, you clearly are not.

And you are?

I am that I am.

And why is it anybody's business where anybody else uses their DSLR?

I don't know - why is it?

1. You erroneously assume that won't "accept" the idea of a pop-up
flash on a DSLR.

OK sorry. So a pop-up flash on a 5D is OK then?

Apology accepted.... oh, and no pop up on the 1D's either. Least you forget this was a 1D forum only, before the 5D came and mucked up the place. \;-)

2. You erroneously assume I advocate using a P&S "because" it has a
built-in flash.

You certainly made it sound that way.

No, you certainly read into that way.

Where to begin?
I agree with Canon's choice not to put pop ups in their 5D and 1D
line of cameras.

Why?

Because.

I can see that it may be wasted on the average 1D user, but
what, differentiates the 5D from 40D as far as the flash is
concerned?

That's easy, the 40D has one - the 5D doesn't. If you what to know all the differences, read the specs.

They're the same size body, they handle almost exactly
the same, so why is taking a 5D along for an evening out any
different from taking my 40D?

I advocate using a P&S when they are the right tool for the job.

There are very few circumstances when I consider a P&S to be "the
right tool for the job"

So we agree.

if I have the option to use a DSLR,
especially if the "job" involves using the built-in flash.

Good for you. Why are you so up set? Or am I misreading you?

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[Michael_J]

True, luckily all P&S have built-in flashes for just such occasions.

I just checked out the Hasselblad H3DII. It has a pop up flash, does
that make it a 39mp, $22,000 point and shoot?

If it has an Auto mode - Yes.

Awwww, geez, I guess not, then. But, to read what's written here,
the pop up flash certainly disqualifies it as a professional grade
camera, though.

That's true, and what a shame, it's a fairly decent camera if not for that silly pop up.

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[Michael_J]

Pop up flashes don't work best for macro anyway - in fact not at all
with longer macro lens. If you are going to shoot a lot of macro, you
might want to look into micro flash units for best results. We, the
good helpful folk at Dpreview, wouldn't want to lead you astray in
thinking that a pop up flash or even a regular flash gun is best for
macro photography.

Or you might want to buy a GOOD flash like the 580EX with many more
features for even BETTER flash photography.

Or, you might want to buy some Alien Bees or Elinchromes with far
more power and accessory flexibility than any of the Canon flashes.

AlienBees, Elinchromes and other studio strobes aren't as portable as
a 580EX, nor will they fit into as small a space...

And the 580EX isn't as portable as the pop-up, hence our wishes for a
pop-up.

Keep your hope alive fellas, some day, some version of a Canon FF body will have that Holy Grail you seek -- a pop up flash. You lives will be complete and you will finally be able to take that perfect picture with a little bit of fill flash that doesn't quite make it over your 100-400L lens. \;-D

Good day and "happy snaps" to all.

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[Skip M]

Pop up flashes don't work best for macro anyway - in fact not at all
with longer macro lens. If you are going to shoot a lot of macro, you
might want to look into micro flash units for best results. We, the
good helpful folk at Dpreview, wouldn't want to lead you astray in
thinking that a pop up flash or even a regular flash gun is best for
macro photography.

Or you might want to buy a GOOD flash like the 580EX with many more
features for even BETTER flash photography.

Or, you might want to buy some Alien Bees or Elinchromes with far
more power and accessory flexibility than any of the Canon flashes.

AlienBees, Elinchromes and other studio strobes aren't as portable as
a 580EX, nor will they fit into as small a space...

And the 580EX isn't as portable as the pop-up, hence our wishes for a
pop-up.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

No, but the 270 is small enough to fit into a jacket pocket, and it will bounce, which a pop up won't...

Actually, I don't care if it has a pop up or not, I'm not one of those whose self image is tied into having a "pro" looking camera. I just don't use a pop up enough to worry about it.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Lee Jay]

Keep your hope alive fellas, some day, some version of a Canon FF
body will have that Holy Grail you seek -- a pop up flash. You lives
will be complete and you will finally be able to take that perfect
picture with a little bit of fill flash that doesn't quite make it
over your 100-400L lens. \;-D

The pop-up works fine with long lenses, just not with wide lenses. It works fine on my 70-200/2.8L IS.

It's funny. A while back I was pretty serious about a $1700 85/1.4L IS. I would have bought one had Canon been making one. I decided they probably never would and bought an 85/1.8. If they make the 85/1.4L IS now, I probably wouldn't buy it. Canon missed out.

If the 5DII had had a pop-up and control over aperture, shutter speed, and frame rate in video mode, I probably would have bought one. Instead, I did not. Canon missed out.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 

[Skip M]

True, luckily all P&S have built-in flashes for just such occasions.

I just checked out the Hasselblad H3DII. It has a pop up flash, does
that make it a 39mp, $22,000 point and shoot?

If it has an Auto mode - Yes.

Awwww, geez, I guess not, then. But, to read what's written here,
the pop up flash certainly disqualifies it as a professional grade
camera, though.

That's true, and what a shame, it's a fairly decent camera if not for
that silly pop up.

Yeah, I heard it was pretty good. I'll get a chance to check that out, next week. Not sure I'll be using the pop up, though. It'll be studio work.

Kidding aside, I'm not sure what the utility of the pop up really is on the Hassy. With its bulk, and limited ISO capaility, it's really a dedicated studio camera. I've never felt the need for a pop up flash in the studio, have you? I mean, I'm not going to control strobes with it, and I'm certainly not going to take party snap shots with it.
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[ne beginner]

... when you placed your order. Snapshot variation of the MkII. All Canon DSLR "F" versions have a built in flash. Comes with a Rebel kit lens, Selphy CP780 printer, semi hard case.

I have a 1D MkIII F ... nice pop up flash, but can't believe no print button!. I mean, how stupid is that? Who has time to down load all those jpegs and then print. Same Rebel kit lens, but the printer was the top of the line Selphy. Sweet setup! But I had no idea how heavy the camera was! To be perfectly honest, the pictures out of the 1D MkIII don't look much different than my Powershot SD puts out, and that fits in my pocket.

 

[Michael_J]

True, luckily all P&S have built-in flashes for just such occasions.

I just checked out the Hasselblad H3DII. It has a pop up flash, does
that make it a 39mp, $22,000 point and shoot?

If it has an Auto mode - Yes.

Awwww, geez, I guess not, then. But, to read what's written here,
the pop up flash certainly disqualifies it as a professional grade
camera, though.

That's true, and what a shame, it's a fairly decent camera if not for
that silly pop up.

Yeah, I heard it was pretty good. I'll get a chance to check that
out, next week. Not sure I'll be using the pop up, though. It'll be
studio work.
Kidding aside, I'm not sure what the utility of the pop up really is
on the Hassy. With its bulk, and limited ISO capaility, it's really
a dedicated studio camera. I've never felt the need for a pop up
flash in the studio, have you? I mean, I'm not going to control
strobes with it, and I'm certainly not going to take party snap shots
with it.

The only "experience" I've had with a Hasselblad, was art directing a product shoot. And I wasn't allowed to touch the camera!

I never noticed if it had a pop up or not, it was never an issue.

If you are going to be using one next week, you HAVE to try the pop up and report back please? I'd love to see some Hasselblad happy snaps with a pop up flash. \;-)

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[spheredome]

I guess, the 5D was somewhat build for professional studio purpose and photographers that relies on natural or studio light. Thus flash was not build.

I do use flash when lighting get too complicated. With all the new bounce box around for flash, the lighting has improved significantly. If you don't want to be hassled by accessories, the Nikon D700 will be good choice. Both the D700 and 5D MK-II are equal in image quality. So its a matter of which brand you like.

 

[Michael_J]

Keep your hope alive fellas, some day, some version of a Canon FF
body will have that Holy Grail you seek -- a pop up flash. You lives
will be complete and you will finally be able to take that perfect
picture with a little bit of fill flash that doesn't quite make it
over your 100-400L lens. \;-D

The pop-up works fine with long lenses, just not with wide lenses.
It works fine on my 70-200/2.8L IS.

Really? Try shooting over a 300 2.8 with hood. I doubt it will shoot over the 70-200 2.8 with hood either.

It's funny. A while back I was pretty serious about a $1700 85/1.4L
IS. I would have bought one had Canon been making one. I decided
they probably never would and bought an 85/1.8. If they make the
85/1.4L IS now, I probably wouldn't buy it. Canon missed out.

I'm sure they are cursing themselves for missing out on that one.

If the 5DII had had a pop-up and control over aperture, shutter
speed, and frame rate in video mode, I probably would have bought
one. Instead, I did not. Canon missed out.

Oh my! What is Canon to do? They missed out on 2 sales!!!!

If the Miata had space for groceries behind the seat, had a top speed of 210mph and got 55/85 mpg, I probably would have bought one. Instead, I did not. Mazda missed out.

See, the problem is you were only THINKING about buying those products. Perhaps if Canon knew you were ADAMANT about buying those products, I'm SURE they would have made them for YOU. :-D

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[Michael_J]

Pop up flashes don't work best for macro anyway - in fact not at all
with longer macro lens. If you are going to shoot a lot of macro, you
might want to look into micro flash units for best results. We, the
good helpful folk at Dpreview, wouldn't want to lead you astray in
thinking that a pop up flash or even a regular flash gun is best for
macro photography.

Or you might want to buy a GOOD flash like the 580EX with many more
features for even BETTER flash photography.

Or, you might want to buy some Alien Bees or Elinchromes with far
more power and accessory flexibility than any of the Canon flashes.

AlienBees, Elinchromes and other studio strobes aren't as portable as
a 580EX, nor will they fit into as small a space...

And the 580EX isn't as portable as the pop-up, hence our wishes for a
pop-up.

--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

No, but the 270 is small enough to fit into a jacket pocket, and it
will bounce, which a pop up won't...

It will if you drop it.

Actually, I don't care if it has a pop up or not, I'm not one of
those whose self image is tied into having a "pro" looking camera. I
just don't use a pop up enough to worry about it.
--
Skip M

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.

 

[Cindy McDonald]

--Maybe he got an extra cat in the box instead of a built in flash

 

[Christoph Stephan]

Canon had to make a choice, the flash or the print button. They felt
the print button was more important. I have never missed a built in
flash with my 5D mkI or my 1D mkI and never have used the built in
with my 40D. I carry my 550ex or my 580ex II with me most of the
time and love it.

Steve
--

This here was really the funniest post of the thread. Would you have missed the print button ever...

--
Chris

 

[Christoph Stephan]

I hope you did not take many answers here not too seriously. Pop up flashes are despised here by many, as are superzoom lenses. I belong to the minority who thinks that both are useful, and I have used SLRs and DSLRs for many years. A P&S does not have flash exposure compensation. Most of my pictures taken with DSLR + onboard flash are definitely better than those taken with P&S and I see many P&S pictures from frined with white overexposed faces.

However you might look at the new Speedlite 270 - with this lightweight flash Canon makes the lack of a pop-up in the 5d's less sore (on the shoulders...). Being very compact, it can even be tilted upwards for indirect flash.

This tiny flash makes the EOS 5D MarkII even tempting for me, but the £2100 pricetag....

--
Chris

 

[Skip M]

True, luckily all P&S have built-in flashes for just such occasions.

I just checked out the Hasselblad H3DII. It has a pop up flash, does
that make it a 39mp, $22,000 point and shoot?

If it has an Auto mode - Yes.

Awwww, geez, I guess not, then. But, to read what's written here,
the pop up flash certainly disqualifies it as a professional grade
camera, though.

That's true, and what a shame, it's a fairly decent camera if not for
that silly pop up.

Yeah, I heard it was pretty good. I'll get a chance to check that
out, next week. Not sure I'll be using the pop up, though. It'll be
studio work.
Kidding aside, I'm not sure what the utility of the pop up really is
on the Hassy. With its bulk, and limited ISO capaility, it's really
a dedicated studio camera. I've never felt the need for a pop up
flash in the studio, have you? I mean, I'm not going to control
strobes with it, and I'm certainly not going to take party snap shots
with it.

The only "experience" I've had with a Hasselblad, was art directing
a product shoot. And I wasn't allowed to touch the camera!

I never noticed if it had a pop up or not, it was never an issue.

If you are going to be using one next week, you HAVE to try the pop
up and report back please? I'd love to see some Hasselblad happy
snaps with a pop up flash. \;-)

I can do that... ;-)
--
Skip M
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
http://www.pbase.com/skipm
http://skipm.smugmug.com/
'Living in the heart of a dream, in the Promised Land!'
John Stewart

 

[Michael_J]

I hope you did not take many answers here not too seriously.

True.

Pop up
flashes are despised here by many,

"Despised" is a bit strong - unnecessary or unwarranted would be more accurate.

as are superzoom lenses.

Who "despises" superzoom lenses?

I belong
to the minority who thinks that both are useful,

Finally some honest enough to admit he is in the minority on this issue.

and I have used SLRs
and DSLRs for many years. A P&S does not have flash exposure
compensation. Most of my pictures taken with DSLR + onboard flash are
definitely better than those taken with P&S and I see many P&S
pictures from frined with white overexposed faces.

All true. I agree.

However you might look at the new Speedlite 270 - with this
lightweight flash Canon makes the lack of a pop-up in the 5d's less
sore (on the shoulders...). Being very compact, it can even be tilted
upwards for indirect flash.

It looks like a great little flash.

This tiny flash makes the EOS 5D MarkII even tempting for me, but the
£2100 pricetag....

Give it some time, it will come down -- but then the 5DMKIII will look tempting, and who knows? Maybe it will have that one item that so few covet.

--
People who claim to be open minded never see it my way.