Use JPEG and forget RAW?!

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The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.
Clearly a BIG PROBLEM, along with no perfect bag, forcing me (me!) to buy every other one introduced. Oh! And Oly is collapsing, slowing critical updates to favorite lines to every other paycheck. Oh, wait! Equivalency! BIG problem!

Frankly, I like jpgs from my Oly, but am jealous over what others extract from Raw.

Long live the multiverse.

Bill
 



Here is a thread from this site: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2918085





With the above extraction methods [along with others available] and If your camera shoots a quality [and most newer cameras do you will not see a difference between high quality and medium 99% of the time] JPEG with a RAW there are extremely few reasons/excuses to shoot JPEG [with today's costs of storage that is not a reason] only or for that reason RAW + JPEG as you shoot a JPEG with every RAW.
 
The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.

They go to their computer (time consuming) and they are forgotten how the scene really was and than they give a certain twist to their photo's thinking that was the original scene.

Do the test and you should be glad, do not use the extremes because that photo was not good enough right from the start.

The RAW shooters show you always very extreme lighting examples and think or say look at that what i have gain back, i say shoot your JPEG properly and than you gain all the profit from JPEG shooting.
Sir, as a big admirer of the art of good trolling, I must applaud you. This is pure genious trolling, you state a clearly stupid fact while being convincing and managed to fool a lot of people.

I take my hat off for you.

Cheers!! Keep on with the good trolling work!
Would love to see some of his examples, I like a good laugh.
 
The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.
Clearly a BIG PROBLEM, along with no perfect bag, forcing me (me!) to buy every other one introduced. Oh! And Oly is collapsing, slowing critical updates to favorite lines to every other paycheck. Oh, wait! Equivalency! BIG problem!

Frankly, I like jpgs from my Oly, but am jealous over what others extract from Raw.

Long live the multiverse.

Bill
Is if you prove it doesn't exist, another one pops up where you prove it does exist.
 
Which in-camera JPEG setting brings out the best in your chicken is no less a creative decision than moving sliders in Lightroom.
JPG's SOOC, like frozen TV dinners, are for when you're not the least bit fussy. Occasionally what you get is good, but really, not to be expected.
 
JPEGs are cooked like TV dinners. RAW is uncooked like sushi. Whatever that means ... ;-)
But RAW is not the final product. You can't print it or view it.

Of course anyone who eats raw fish deserves whatever they get, take that as you wish.
 
JPEGs are cooked like TV dinners. RAW is uncooked like sushi. Whatever that means ... ;-)
But RAW is not the final product. You can't print it or view it.

Of course anyone who eats raw fish deserves whatever they get, take that as you wish.
Is there some god given rule that says one must be able to take the SD card out of the camera and expose it to as little air as possible before it gets inserted into the Walmart photo printer machine?

Maybe in 2005 you could have been squeamish about RAW. But in 2015 one can use what is called a computer to process raw as easily as jpg, even easier. And then turn it into a raw to stick into the Walmart machine.
 
The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.

They go to their computer (time consuming) and they are forgotten how the scene really was and than they give a certain twist to their photo's thinking that was the original scene.

Do the test and you should be glad, do not use the extremes because that photo was not good enough right from the start.

The RAW shooters show you always very extreme lighting examples and think or say look at that what i have gain back, i say shoot your JPEG properly and than you gain all the profit from JPEG shooting.
So, just because you don't know what to do with a raw file means no one should shoot in raw? I see...

BTW, since you only shoot jpegs, you should've bought an Olympus instead of a Panasonic. Olympus cameras make way nicer jpegs. Just saying.
 
The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.

They go to their computer (time consuming) and they are forgotten how the scene really was and than they give a certain twist to their photo's thinking that was the original scene.

Do the test and you should be glad, do not use the extremes because that photo was not good enough right from the start.

The RAW shooters show you always very extreme lighting examples and think or say look at that what i have gain back, i say shoot your JPEG properly and than you gain all the profit from JPEG shooting.
This is really annoying, I know the subject has been done to death in every forum, and I shouldn't be responding to this thread, and 50 posters have probably already made the same points that I am about to make - BUT ...
  • There is nothing perfect about a jpg straight out of the camera. It is the camera's interpretation of a raw file. You may like the way it comes out or your may not, but there is nothing inherently more 'accurate' about it.
  • There is nothing morally superior about fixing your sharpening or your white balance in the camera (from which there is no return) rather than reserving the option to do it later in calmer circumstances. Nor is it particularly time-saving.
  • If you manage your photographs using a programme such as Lightroom, it is no more time-consuming to shoot raw than it is to shoot jpg.
  • Converting from raw using your computer, rather than letting the camera do it, is not giving 'a certain twist' to anything. You may well end up with a very similar result (as I do, since I find both Pentax and Panasonic metering and AWB do pretty well). But you are not losing anything, and you are in fact gaining the option of great flexibility if you should want to rectify (for example) colour balance or exposure that is slightly 'off'. Nobody takes photographs without the occasional compensation being needed after the event.
  • There is no profit at all from shooting jpg unless you want to use the output file directly without use of your computer, or unless you are short of disc space.
I think you're probably just trying to raise my blood pressure. :)
 
There is no such thing as "JPEG engine". It is talk of software from uneducated people.
 
Which in-camera JPEG setting brings out the best in your chicken is no less a creative decision than moving sliders in Lightroom.
So, you want to play with a dozen settings, looking a tiny uncalibrated screen in direct sunlight, while the action passes you by? And whatever decision you make is irrevocable?

Raw brings back the joy of photography. JPEG lets you fiddle with your camera.
 
He/She is correct.

If you look a guides there are suggestions to many very complex features that do have benefits but people starts using those and focus to those instead the most important things - getting photo correct in the camera. Instead they start to focus settings and dream that they can fix things on computer.

There is huge amount of professionals who has no idea from all camera settings and they relay too much about computers software to get photos.

It is like learning photography first starting with pinhole camera, then film cameras and then giving digital cameras with limitations like only prime objective offering 46° field of view and even fixed focus range. Then eventually trough multiple steps moving to more advanced settings and possibilities.

And then the person just learns that JPEG is far more powerful than it is given credit for here or almost anywhere as it is almost always told JPEG is like damaging file and not good to anything, and some people even wonder why it is in camera and it should be removed as its no use.
 
I mostly shoot raw, but often have an Eye-fi card on board which I set to jpeg for faster transfers. I run my photos through LR.

I can adjust jpeg WB just as easily as RAW WB.

I find I can lift shadows up to 1.5 stops in JPEG without getting all that much more noise than doing the same with a raw file. For those I use a brush to reduce the noise locally since to avoid losing detail where it counts in the brighter portions of the image.

Raw is still king but the cameras and software are progressing so fast that jpegs are becoming quite practical. I shoot interiors a fair amount and often bracket exposures in RAW then stack them in LR and merge them to HDR. I don't like LR's HDR yet because it has intermediate steps and doesn't batch process so I use LR Enfuse. Lately I've occasionally used the in camera HDR mode the D7100 offers and despite the output being JPEG I'm pleasantly surprised with the results and the ability to process them afterward. That saves tons of drive space because the HDR's can be up to 90 megs and more, whereas the in camera HDR's are still 20 or less. Plus to do the HDR's you have the 3 or more raw files to start with ...plus the HDR so the overall size is staggering.

As the equipment and tools get better JPEG will gain on Raw even more.
 
He/She is correct.

If you look a guides there are suggestions to many very complex features that do have benefits but people starts using those and focus to those instead the most important things - getting photo correct in the camera. Instead they start to focus settings and dream that they can fix things on computer.

There is huge amount of professionals who has no idea from all camera settings and they relay too much about computers software to get photos.

It is like learning photography first starting with pinhole camera, then film cameras and then giving digital cameras with limitations like only prime objective offering 46° field of view and even fixed focus range. Then eventually trough multiple steps moving to more advanced settings and possibilities.

And then the person just learns that JPEG is far more powerful than it is given credit for here or almost anywhere as it is almost always told JPEG is like damaging file and not good to anything, and some people even wonder why it is in camera and it should be removed as its no use.
OK, let's try this another way.

For example, I go to the Albert Hall and listen to a concert where a world class orchestra is playing Vivaldi's 4 Seasons - which I quite like. So I decide to buy the CD on sale in the foyer.

I get home and on reading the label I discover it has been recorded on a cheap mobile phone as a compressed mp3 file.

How am I going to feel listening to a tinny reproduction where much of the detail and subtlety has been chopped off by the recording device. I turn the volume up or down, I can adjust bass and treble and all that stuff - but I'll never be able to put back what has been taken away.

If on the other hand it has been recorded on a multichannel hyper duper system and then reproduced in uncompressed format with warts and all I can then choose how I modify the playback to make it sound good to me - which may be less than good to others who have different hearing, tastes etc etc.

My oldest camera is a 1999/2000 Sony DSC S70. It shoots jpeg and TIFF and it does both very well - if a little sluggishly. In most cases the jpegs are just fine, but sometimes they're not because no matter what you do the camera cannot cope with certain lighting conditions with its on board JPEG Engine - which by the way is perfectly acceptable shorthand for describing the software built in to the camera that converts the original raw data into the output jpeg. Why would that be I wonder? If jpeg was good enough what was the point of providing TIFF way back then. Why do mfrs provide RAW?

In the past 15 years I have shot 14 in jpeg. The only reason I switched to RAW has been because I have become more demanding -and I have become fed up of the way certain cameras ruin pictures due to poor metering, poor colour reproduction, mushy sharpening and other features.

No-one (who knows what they're talking about) is saying that the OP is wrong. If you want to shoot jpeg then shoot jpeg - no-one cares!

BUT - if you want to ram 'jpeg only' down other peoples' throats as the 'ONE TRUE WAY' then you'd better be able to back that up with examples as well as details of how you have fixed the mfrs jpeg engine/output process. As yet I have seen neither.
 
The biggest problem with the RAW shooters they do not know how to shoot a perfect JPEG on the spot.

They go to their computer (time consuming) and they are forgotten how the scene really was and than they give a certain twist to their photo's thinking that was the original scene.

Do the test and you should be glad, do not use the extremes because that photo was not good enough right from the start.

The RAW shooters show you always very extreme lighting examples and think or say look at that what i have gain back, i say shoot your JPEG properly and than you gain all the profit from JPEG shooting.
Man, you must be really good huh. Have you written books on the subject ??

Time consuming, where on earth do you get that from :-) Did you just pluck that one out of the air somewhere. Takes me one click in LR and then cropping, job done. Mind you, you might have trouble making pre-sets to start with by the sound of it. Do you understand the process by any chance.

I've done the tests with Trevor in here at one time. Why on earth do I need to do it again, gees.

All the very best and yep DPR is getting spooky with some people in here, photography gods and all :-)

Danny.

--
Birds, macro, motor sports.... http://www.birdsinaction.com
Flickr albums ..... https://www.flickr.com/photos/124733969@N06/sets/
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Try GH2. That camera has the worst JPEG engine ever! I mean, ever!

It is just not possible to shoot JPEG with it because there is simply no setting that would give you what RAW can provide.

I can only survive with GH2 thanks to SilkyPix 5.0 for Panasonic, using which I am bypassing Venus Engine altogether and getting acceptable results.
 
shoot loads of jpegs dismiss most of them (quickly) because they dont have that "magic" something select the ones that do and post process with software designed for the job..

that "magic" something is part down to luck and part down to skill and its all relative after all.. however good you think your end results are they could always be better..

for me the "luck" factor is part of the fun.. the "skill" factor i just take for granted and whilst not liking too many f-ck ups it would all be boring if they all came out perfect.. he he..

trog
 
There is no such thing as "JPEG engine". It is talk of software from uneducated people.
Well, now we are nitpicking. I 'don't care if you call it JPEG engine or in-camera Raw converter or whatever. It's about what it does and the term JPEG engine describes it perfectly. I really don't mind if it's not appropriate from an expert's point of view.

And by the way: calling somebody uneducated just because he doesn't use the term you would prefer is extremely inappropriate.
 
If JPG is what works for you, then that is what you should use.

My mileage differs.
 
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