Sooner reaching diffraction limit with higher megapixel cameras

David_Winston

Member
Messages
14
Reaction score
3
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?

So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon? I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?

I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction? Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?

Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?

What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
 
Solution
1. The point at which diffraction induced blur becomes a factor that limits lens resolution. Stopping a lens down minimises most aberrations, but increases the size of the blur disc from diffraction. As a result, most lenses offer more resolution when stopped down to some extent, then offer less resolution when stopped down more than that. When a lens is described as 'diffraction limited' from a particular aperture, that means it is sharpest at that aperture. This is in theory independent of sensor pixel count and pixel size, though in practice, as most lens tests are carried out on camera, it may be confused with point 2 below.

2. The point at which diffraction induced blur becomes an important factor in practice. When diffraction...
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?

So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon? I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?

I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction? Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?

Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?

What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
Also factor in the lens aperture. With some primes, lenses with very large apertures like f/1.2 and f/1.4, diffraction can start at f/9 and f/11.

Some camera companies that have specific firmware for each lens, have in camera diffraction compensation features that work with the camera to compensate for not only distortion and vignette, but also diffraction.
 
oh I didn't know that lens correction also can include diffraction. How can a faster lens show diffraction later? I don't understand it really. Could you explain it to me please?
 
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?

So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon? I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?

I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction? Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?

Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?

What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
I'm not familiar with the AA filter (or lack thereof) in the two cameras you tested, but if you're not sharpening in PP, then the AA filter is going to mask some or all of the diffraction blurring anyway. And on a FF camera, f5.6 isn't going to show diffraction in the first place, at f16 you may see some effects.

Basically, what causes diffraction is a small lens aperture, because it tends to spread the rays that pass through it. Whether you can detect that spreading depends on the aperture size first, then if the pixel pitch is small enough to be similar to the dimension of the diffraction blurring it will capture the blurring in the image. Then, you may or may not be able to see it in the final image, depending on whether or not the image size is large enough for your eyes to be able to resolve it at the expected viewing distance.
 
Last edited:
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?
Not for the same print size and same viewing distance, no. But people normally use higher resolution to obtain a larger print size - or for cropping, which changes everything.
So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon?
Not for the same print size and same viewing distance.
I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?
You need to reference the exact quote in order for comments on that to be worthwhile.
I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so?
Because downsampling (if it's done well) can enhance perceived resolution. That's why some people like to shoot 4K video and downsample it to 1080 instead of shooting straight 1080. It has nothing to do with diffraction.
What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
They'll be useful to some people.
 
Last edited:
I don't know but I have done some extensive testing with my lenses and they all appear to loose sharpness at 5.6. Maybe it's because modern lenses are that much sharper that we see the effects much sooner. Or is my lens softer from then on due to a different factor?
 
How can a faster lens show diffraction later?
What do you mean? A lens will eventually 'show diffraction' as it's stopped down whether it's fast or not.
True.

There is diffraction at all apertures. The width of the blur increases as you stop down, until at some point (depending on enlargement and viewing distance) it becomes a nuisance.

The "Airy Disc" (named after an Astronomer Royal) is the disc-like image of a star (which should be a point) when it's blurred by diffraction.

If you have a high resolution sensor, so that the Airy disc covers several pixels, it's easier for the deconvolution software to restore the stars to points. What applies to stars applies to any point in the scene being photographed.

Most lens aberrations improve as you stop down; diffraction gets worse.

Using a low resolution sensor or an AA filter will not make the images sharper. How could it ?
 
Last edited:
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things.
Grasping my head helps me express frustration, but doesn't help much to understand anything.
One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print.
One can academically consider diffraction at the pixel level, as in, how big is the blur as measured in units of these specific pixels, but that has nothing to do with practical concerns, when deciding on how much pixel density you want. What people who fixate on pixel-level diffraction tend to overlook is that pixel density does not alter the underlying analog diffraction, but that higher pixel density makes people view each square mm of the sensor area at a larger size, making the same analog diffraction larger. Anyone who takes the same f/22 photo on a 12.5 FF camera and a 50MP FF camera and compares them both at 100% pixel view is a pixel fool, to put it bluntly. Anyone who has a clear head on the subject will look at the 12.5MP at 200%, if they are comparing to the 50MP at 100%. You can also do any other difference of magnification that is 2x, like 140% vs 280%, or 50% vs 100%, but remember that even though 50% makes an image look sharper, it is actually discarding information. Each pair of2x-different magnifications has a set of potential resampling artifacts, but the 50MP will generally have the least artifacts.

What ultimately matters is how big the diffraction blur is in the final display of the image, or in terms of "image" diffraction, the size of the blur relative to the image.

That's not to say that the relationship between diffraction blur size and pixel size never has any practical meaning. If you are wondering how much you should stop down to get deeper depth-of-field, you are trading off maximum detail sharpness in the center of the focal depth for more depth, and larger pixels might make you lean more towards stopping down, because you can't see the sharp detail loss as much, in terms of sharpness loss, but only because THE LARGER PIXELS WOULD HAVE THROW AWAY A LOT OF THE DETAIL ANYWAY. For any given DOF chosen, however, a higher pixel density would have made the entire image better.
Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?
Do you mean increased pixel density? "Increased megapixels" can mean a sensor of a different size, which brings in other issues. One thing at a time; that's why I used 12.5MP FF vs 50MP FF in my example.
So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon?
Pixels shouldn't, ideally, be visible or sharp at all. There should be so many of them that sharp detail can be rendered without seeing pixels, or any pixelation or aliasing.
I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?
He doesn't know what he is talking about, unless he is talking about current data/bandwidth/heat concerns, or what the company is willing to produce. A person who truly understands the science of imaging would never say anything like that, regarding maximum IQ. The only problems that would happen, in terms of optics and resolution, is if narrow photosites are too far off-axis, they may have some radial shifts of light or cross-talk into the wrong-colored pixels. The center of the frame would be awesome, guaranteed, with a several hundred MPs, as long as you are not silly enough to conflate image quality with PQ (pixel view quality) on a low-density monitor.
I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so?
Why would you expect otherwise? They have the same image-level diffraction, and the denser sensor sampled everything better (more real detail, including more complete color resolution).

Forget about any idea that diffraction and pixel size have some kind of special relationship. Have you ever seen one of those kitchen tools that takes a slice of something and chops it into little squares? That's what pixels are like. There is an analog diffraction blur on the sensor, and the size of the pixels does not alter that, but just slices it differently. The less little squares or cubes you have, the less detail you have to work with it, and the more distorted it becomes when you resample it.
Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction?
There is no difference in diffraction, relative to the full image.
Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?
You'd get even better results with 100MP.
Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?
There won't be any detriment for the 42mp, no matter what common high f-number you use, even f/64 with teleconverters.
What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?

Definitely, but not as useful as a gigapixel FF camera. A gigapixel FF camera would allow you to rotate your capture, do perspective distortion, CA correction, etc, without much artifact, and if you choose to downsample to 2MP, your result will be much better than any real 2MP sensor would have done.
 
I don't know but I have done some extensive testing with my lenses and they all appear to loose sharpness at 5.6. Maybe it's because modern lenses are that much sharper that we see the effects much sooner. Or is my lens softer from then on due to a different factor?
as a general rule, most lenses will perform best at f/5.6-8 so you may just have some poor quality lenses, or your method of comparison may be flawed. BTW, are you saying the sharpness is better above f/5.6 than below it?? That's rather common, but has nothing to do with diffraction.

If a particular lens is "sharp", its likely to be sharpest at 5.6-8, as opposed to degrading at that point. As you go to wider apertures (lower f-number) lenses will get softer. As you go to narrower apertures (higher f-number) you eventually reach diffraction, but on a FF sensor that's quite a bit higher than f/8.

Your comments suggest that maybe you're not fully understanding the concepts involved. It would appear that you read something about diffraction and are trying to visualize its effects, but you're probably seeing something else that's causing softness and mis-diagnosing the issue.

you mentioned the Cambridge Color website in your OP, if you look at their calculations you'll see that for a FF sensor diffraction isn't a concern until the range of f/32, so the fact that you're seeing something at f/5.6 should tell you that its not diffraction that is causing it.
 
Last edited:
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?

So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon? I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?

I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction? Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?

Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?

What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
Practically speaking, diffraction becomes more visible the smaller area you look at, the smaller the area of a sensor you magnify. If you are talking pixel level, then increasing the pixels on a particular sensor means smaller pixels, ie smaller area being viewed.

There is a certain amount of diffraction per F stop on any lens, no matter the format or sensor size. This is why, traditionally speaking, people say FF starts to see diffraction at a particular pixel count at about f/16, while apsc shows up about f/11, and MFT at about f/8. Of course that all depends on how small the pixels are you are viewing. Looking at smaller pixels on a newer higher rez sensor, and you end up magnifying a smaller portion of the sensor, and diffraction looks worse.

If you were using a 200mp FF sensor, diffraction would impact pixel level detail a lot sooner than f/16 on a lower rez sensor (perhaps f/8 or f/5.6). This is why phones, like the new ZTE with 46mp, are not taken seriously by enthusiasts. It has an f/1.7 lens with a (presumably) tiny phone sensor, which means the pixels are absolutely minuscule. There's no way that an f/1.7 lens won't be diffraction limiting on pixels that small.

In other words, you will never get 46mp worth of detail from it, diffraction won't let you, which also means you won't get real 8k video. Some MFG try to use tricks to reduce diffraction but it's not great, there's no real way around diffraction. Yet anyway.

--
"Horizons with no movement forever still,
Falling rain washing the dead,
Mocking the motionless eternally damned,
Dreams unfulfilled, dreams unfulfilled. " -
 
Last edited:
diffraction
Diffraction is only dependent on a few things, and the major one is f/stop.

All cameras and all lenses on all sensors with any pixel count will generate the same amount of diffraction if the f/stop is the same.

One measure of diffraction amount is given by the formula:

Diffraction blur width = 1.22 x wavelength x f/stop

The diffraction pattern itself, for a tiny point of light, consists of a bright central region surrounded by rings of light that grow ever fainter as you go outwards, which is called an Airy disk. The diffraction width is the diameter of the bright central region, which contains most of the energy of the diffracted beam, but understand that the diffraction pattern has a complicated shape. Also, this pattern assumes that your lens has a perfectly circular aperture: often, lens irises are made of various blades, which will add 'spikes' to the diffraction pattern, usually seen as starburst patterns around light sources in night scenes.

The longest wavelength of visible light is less than twice the wavelength of the shortest, and so people usually select a middle wavelength of green light for the formula. The range of frequencies in white light leads to faintly colored rings in the diffraction pattern.

See these articles for technical details:




OK, so the same f/stop will give the same diffraction width no matter what camera or what lens you are using. But the width of the diffraction pattern relative to the sensor size is important. A full-frame camera sensor has twice the width of a Micro 4/3rds sensor, and so diffraction patterns at the same f/stop will be twice the percentage of the sensor width for the smaller format. So we say that f/8 on a full frame will generate the same diffraction as f/4 on Micro 4/3rds, but what's happening in reality is that diffraction width on the Micro 4/3rds camera—which is half the width of that on the full frame—is magnified twice as much as the diffraction on the full frame, and so we end up with the diffraction being the same percentage relative to the sensor width of both cameras. Likewise, f/8 on both cameras will lead to twice as much diffraction on the smaller format, as a percentage of image width.

Pixel width or pitch has an effect as well. If the pixels are much larger than a particular diffraction width, then diffraction won't matter much on the sensor, as insufficient megapixels are instead the limiting factor of the camera. But if the pixels are much smaller than the diffraction width, then you'll likely get a very fuzzy image if you zoom way into the image and pixel peep. Sharpening, however, can recover some image data otherwise blurred from diffraction.
 
I don't know but I have done some extensive testing with my lenses and they all appear to loose sharpness at 5.6. Maybe it's because modern lenses are that much sharper that we see the effects much sooner. Or is my lens softer from then on due to a different factor?
All lenses suffer aberrations, which are worst at wide apertures. So almost all lenses improve initially as they are stopped down.

All lenses suffer diffraction, which is strongest at small apertures. So after a certain aperture the improvement caused by reduction of aberrations is overtaken by the degradation caused by diffraction. The aperture at which the two effects balance out to give peak resolution is called the sweet spot.

The better the lens (in general terms) the less it suffers aberrations so its performance peaks at relatively wide apertures, which means the sweet spot comes relatively early. For high quality full frame lenses the sweet spot can be as early as f/2 or f/2.8; for high quality APS-C lenses it is typically f/4. For ordinary lenses (such as kit zooms) it can be much later - f/8 or even f/11.

Note that this is because ordinary lenses start softer than high quality lenses so it takes longer (more f-stops) before the effect of aberrations is reduced.

So the fact that your lenses start to soften after f/5.6 means that they are pretty good if you use a crop camera; OK but nothing special if you use FF.
 
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things.
An exercise in futility, methinks!

Not being very fluent in math or physics, I don't read technical articles. I prefer to test my lenses to see what they are capable of.

I always test a new lens at all apertures in the field to see what is useful. Here is my test for my FE 2.8/50 Macro: I want to know how far I can stop down for DOF and still have good detail resolved.

Macro Lens Test

- Richard

--
http://www.rsjphoto.net
 
Last edited:
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?
You'd better ignore CiC.

Today's crop cameras already have the pixel density of 60+mp on FF. They sill show considerable aliasing.

Maybe 200mp or so would be enough, just guessing.
 
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print. Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?

So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon? I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?

I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in. When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.

Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction? Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?

Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?

What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
Also factor in the lens aperture. With some primes, lenses with very large apertures like f/1.2 and f/1.4, diffraction can start at f/9 and f/11.
And can you explain why that is ???

Unless there is a difference is iris design (perfect circle vs hexagon, etc.), I don't understand the relationship.
Some camera companies that have specific firmware for each lens, have in camera diffraction compensation features that work with the camera to compensate for not only distortion and vignette, but also diffraction.
 
If a particular lens is "sharp", its likely to be sharpest at 5.6-8, as opposed to degrading at that point. As you go to wider apertures (lower f-number) lenses will get softer. As you go to narrower apertures (higher f-number) you eventually reach diffraction, but on a FF sensor that's quite a bit higher than f/8.
So what do you think is caussing the worsening shaprness between the sharpest aperture and the aperture at which the lenses "eventually reach diffraction"?
Your comments suggest that maybe you're not fully understanding the concepts involved.
Ironic.
It would appear that you read something about diffraction and are trying to visualize its effects, but you're probably seeing something else that's causing softness and mis-diagnosing the issue.
If a lens is less sharp at f/8 than at f/5.,6, what is it that is causing it to be less sharp?
you mentioned the Cambridge Color website in your OP, if you look at their calculations you'll see that for a FF sensor diffraction isn't a concern until the range of f/32,
Is that what it is actually saying? If so, the site ios even orse on diffrcton than I had though.

Diffraction on FF becomes a concern for me somewhere around f/8 because that is the aperture around which my images stat to become softer in the centre as I stop down.
so the fact that you're seeing something at f/5.6 should tell you that its not diffraction that is causing it.
What else would it be if f/5.6 is softer than f/4?

Diffraction affects all lenses at every aperture. As you narrow the aperture, the negative effect of diffraction increases.
 
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction, according to Cambridge in colour
There's you first problem
it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,
It's not
the aperture of the lens
it is, plus the wavelength of the light
and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print.
Nope, although those two and perhaps pixel pitch will determine the visibiility of the effects of diffraction
Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?
Define "diffraction limit".
So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon?
No. You experience diffraction at any pixel pitch other than 1 pixel per sensor, and at any f-number.
I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?
We'd need more context to tell.
I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in.
Nope diffraction starts to kick in at the lens's widest aperture. at f/5,6 may be where the blur from diffraction increases with apertrue change faster then the blur from aberrations lessens.
When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.
As I would expect. The diffraction was the same on both cameras at the same f-number, but the higher pixel count more precisely divided the image into pixels.
Why is that so? Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction?
Well the higher resolution is more successfully localizing the effects of diffraction.
Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?
It was big enough for you to see a difference - infaovoru of teh higher MP cameaea. Why would adding more pixels reverse that trend?
Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?
A smaller aperture would show even more diffraction blur.
What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
Yes they will, to some people. Some people need no more than 12MP.
 
Cambridge in Colour's articles on diffraction are quite misleading. What they don't tell you is that at any given f/stop, the diffraction limit is the highest possible resolution and if you aren't limited by diffraction it is because you are already being limited more by lens aberrations or pixel count. A theoretical perfect camera system would have a good enough lens, and high enough pixel count to be diffraction limited at all apertures which is the highest resolution possible.
 
Last edited:
I am trying to grasp my head around certain things. One of them is diffraction,
That's because it's a somewhat confusing topic.
according to Cambridge in colour it is dependent of pixel pitch of the sensor,
Diffraction is not dependent on the pixel pitch of the sensor. The diffraction limit of resolving power is.
the aperture of the lens and of course the final size and viewing distance of the print.
Has nothing to do with the final size or viewing distance either.
Neglecting the print size and the viewing distance and just focusing on aperture and pixel pitch. Will increased megapixels lead to sooner hitting the diffraction limit?
No, the diffraction-limited resolution of the sensor will be hit at a lower f-stop. But it will still be more resolution.
So if you were to jam 60 or 70 megapixels in a full frame sensor wouldn't you at one point reach diffraction very soon?
No.
I think it was some manager from Fujifilm that said, that FF's limit would be around 60mp to 100mp. Was it that that he was referring to?
Who knows - he's full of you-know-what either way.
I did some testing with an A7iii and an A7R iii with the same lens of a lens testing chart at various apertures (5.6 to 11). 5.6 where diffraction starts to kick in.
Diffraction is always present.
When I downsampled the A7R iii image down (both no sharpening) I still found the A7R iii to be sharper at all apertures.
I guess the iii has more pixels. If so, that's right.
Why is that so?
Because it has more pixels.
Is that gain in resolution outweighing the diffraction?
Diffraction isn't changing, and you're gaining pixel count.
Or is the jump from 24mp to 42mp just not that big?
That's also true, just unrelated to the topic.
Or should I have tested at smaller apertures (maybe then I would have seen the difference (I rarely use f16 so I didn't feel I should test it)?
At the same size and f-stop, diffraction is the same. Pixel size or count has nothing to do with it.
What do you think? Will 70mp FF cameras even be useful?
They'll certainly produce more resolution than 50MP full-frame cameras.

Look, the point where adding pixels really no longer matters because of diffraction is in the gigapixel range, depending on your f-stop assumption.



MTF%20from%20diffraction.JPG


So, that point is 1 micron for f/5.6 lenses. 1 micron pixels = 36,000x24,000 = 864MP for full-frame. And that's at f/5.6. It's 16 times more at f/1.4.

--
Lee Jay
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top