So what is so wrong about P mode?

[Ken Rimple]

Nothing wrong with this. Whatever gets you the shot, gets
you the shot. Even green square mode...

As for my shooting, I usually use M if shooting macros or
shots with tripod, as it slows me down and gives me the most
creative freedom with two fingers... The metering is usually
a little hot, so I like to dial in what I expect.

However, I also love shooting Av, and as I don't do sports,
I don't bother with Tv that much.

I might use P mode in a hurry, but usually I get what I want by
dialing down up the speed or aperature.

Ken

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Ken Rimple
Newtown Square, PA
PhotoSig portfolio: http://www1.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=377180
Pbase portfolio: http://www.pbase.com/krimple
BreezeBrowser Galleries online at http://www.rimple.net/albums

Did you get the memo?

 

[Dave Abrey]

There is normally a profile - a program if you like, that takes
into account focal length in use, and the EV conditions at the
time. The bias (as I understand it, favours a choice that favours
setting aperture to a mid-range value (eg f8) whilst there is
enough light, then in a low light situation, would open up the
aperture to ensure there was sufficient shutter speed to avoid
camera shake for the focal length in use. At the other extreme, in
bright light, it will ramp down the aperture to keep shutter speed
within limits

Simon,

What you said above makes sense - starting in the middle makes sens, as you have room to work either way. I think I'll have a play with this . I was also thinking about playing around with "The Sunny f16 Rule" as well, seems like a good opportunity to learn a thing or two about how the camera meters.

Again, thanks for the info, it's been very educational .

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Andy Simmons]

John,

I also made the move from an Olympus E-10 to a Canon, but my Canon is the 10D. Still I am really impressed by the Canon's AE. It is far superior to the E-10's metering system. My first shot with the 10D was a quick snap of my cat (of course) in Green Square mode, which automatically popped up and used the flash. To my surprise. I hadn't even read the manual yet.

I couldn't believe how well the scene got metered by the 10D--the white areas of the cat's fur was filled with swirls of hair, shadows and gray tones instead of being blown out, which probably would have happened with the E-10.

I use most of the various modes of the Canon 10D, depending on the circumstances. It's fun to experiment with them and to compare shots for DOF, blur, etc. But I find nothing wrong with either the Green Square or the P modes.

It's just a camera. Play with it.

Andy S

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

 

[Lars Johnsson]

I think many people here will get better pictures if they sometimes use p modes. But I suppose it's not so macho..................
Some people use it but they don't admit it.
Lars

I also made the move from an Olympus E-10 to a Canon, but my Canon
is the 10D. Still I am really impressed by the Canon's AE. It is
far superior to the E-10's metering system. My first shot with the
10D was a quick snap of my cat (of course) in Green Square mode,
which automatically popped up and used the flash. To my surprise.
I hadn't even read the manual yet.

I couldn't believe how well the scene got metered by the 10D--the
white areas of the cat's fur was filled with swirls of hair,
shadows and gray tones instead of being blown out, which probably
would have happened with the E-10.

I use most of the various modes of the Canon 10D, depending on the
circumstances. It's fun to experiment with them and to compare
shots for DOF, blur, etc. But I find nothing wrong with either the
Green Square or the P modes.

It's just a camera. Play with it.

Andy S

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

 

[Peter70]

Did you take a photo of a person in a black dress with a very white face?

What a P mode does in this situation? It makes an average and the black dress becomes a little bit grey, but the face is overexposed.

The human dress is more important than the dress usually. You need to make a correction in P mode or swithch to M and spot meter the face.

This is why I work in M usually. Making corrections simply takes to much time than making just one shot which is correctly exposed.

I will start using the P mode when the camera will read my mind. I guess this will take some decades.

dimage,

P mode picks a setting for shutter speed and aperature when you
press the shutter release half way. You can tehn "program shift"
the settings with the control dial if you don't like what it chose.

Say you are shooting P mode and you press the shutter release half
way, in the viewfinder you will see the speed and aperature taht
has been chosen to give "proper" exposure. Now, say it has chosen a
wider aperature than you want, becuase you want the Dof to be small
in this shot. Just rotate the dial and wht in the view finder - it
will adjsut both the shutter speed and aperature - up or down
depending on which way you trun the dial.

If at the same time you want to dial in some EV compensation, just
use the thumb dial on the back of the camera.

The end result is the same as if you had used AV or TV (or even M)
mode - assuming you trust the exposure reading/setting from the
camera. The differnce is instead of setting one of them manually
and etting the camera set the other, you are in effect setting both
at the same time.

It always amuses me when I hear people say they only ever use Av,
Tv and M because it gives them more "control". It doesn't unless
they are using an external meter. There is nothing that can't be
done with P mode that can be done with the others. It just
automates the presentation of an initial setting, and couples the
adjustment. The fact that it is shiftable, and overridable (Ev
comp) make it just as flexible - and in many ways, quicker, than
Av, Ts or M. I think some use Av or Ts in prference because they
can't think quickly enough or don't understand the pairing issue.

Simon

 

[Brian Kennedy]

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

"P" mode is just too much trouble if you're going to use something else for "more control." As opposed to giving you less to think about, P mode actually gives you more to think about. It requires too much paying attention to what the aperture and shutter are suggested by the camera, then shifting on the fly to what you want for a particular scene. Why not just set the camera the way you want beforehand?

If you want to shoot kids running around, nothing set up, what's so difficult about choosing a wide aperture in Av mode? I'd venture to say that's how about 90% of experienced SLR users would do it. Choose a wide aperture that will give you a decent shutter speed to stop motion, then forget about it and take shots of the kids running around.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

The metering will work just the same no matter what mode you're shooting in, so feel free to get comfortable with the other modes. In all seriousness, I think you'll find that once you're more comfortable with your camera and maybe understand exposure a little better, P mode is actually more trouble than the other modes, rather than less.

--
Brian Kennedy
http://www.briankennedy.net/

 

[DavidP #28649]

There's nothing really wrong with it.

It's just that usually I find myself wanting to control aperture, shutter speed, or both.

Most of the time I'm in Av mode. Less often, M mode. Less often, Tv mode.

I don't think I've ever used P-mode.

Now, I do use the equivalent of P-mode on my S400.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[DavidP #28649]

Most of my shots are in Av mode. Sometimes I know the correct exposure, and don't want to think about compensation, and then I'll use M mode. I've used Tv mode rarely.

P-mode is great to have, if you want to just hand the camera to somebody.

But I really don't like those sports mode, portrait mode, etc.

Ugh!

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Troponin]

Gottcha with the OT thang again .

Seems like you are having a rough day with HyperFish and your equipment/technique thing

He did have some good points, although he could use a lesson or two in tact. Just MO.

It's just that usually I find myself wanting to control aperture,
shutter speed, or both.

Most of the time I'm in Av mode. Less often, M mode. Less often,
Tv mode.

I don't think I've ever used P-mode.

Now, I do use the equivalent of P-mode on my S400.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[Troponin]

Most of my shots are in Av mode. Sometimes I know the correct
exposure, and don't want to think about compensation, and then I'll
use M mode. I've used Tv mode rarely.

P-mode is great to have, if you want to just hand the camera to
somebody.

But I really don't like those sports mode, portrait mode, etc.

Ugh!

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[Jack O'Neill]

P mode makes you always look at aperture and shutter values and shift accordingly. Whereas if you use Tv or Av you can set the shutter or aperture to the value needed and just go to work and not worry about shifting at all.

Jack
--
http://www.pbase.com/joneill

 

[Troponin]

What a P mode does in this situation? It makes an average and the
black dress becomes a little bit grey, but the face is overexposed.

The human dress is more important than the dress usually. You need
to make a correction in P mode or swithch to M and spot meter the
face.

This is why I work in M usually. Making corrections simply takes to
much time than making just one shot which is correctly exposed.

I will start using the P mode when the camera will read my mind. I
guess this will take some decades.

dimage,

P mode picks a setting for shutter speed and aperature when you
press the shutter release half way. You can tehn "program shift"
the settings with the control dial if you don't like what it chose.

Say you are shooting P mode and you press the shutter release half
way, in the viewfinder you will see the speed and aperature taht
has been chosen to give "proper" exposure. Now, say it has chosen a
wider aperature than you want, becuase you want the Dof to be small
in this shot. Just rotate the dial and wht in the view finder - it
will adjsut both the shutter speed and aperature - up or down
depending on which way you trun the dial.

If at the same time you want to dial in some EV compensation, just
use the thumb dial on the back of the camera.

The end result is the same as if you had used AV or TV (or even M)
mode - assuming you trust the exposure reading/setting from the
camera. The differnce is instead of setting one of them manually
and etting the camera set the other, you are in effect setting both
at the same time.

It always amuses me when I hear people say they only ever use Av,
Tv and M because it gives them more "control". It doesn't unless
they are using an external meter. There is nothing that can't be
done with P mode that can be done with the others. It just
automates the presentation of an initial setting, and couples the
adjustment. The fact that it is shiftable, and overridable (Ev
comp) make it just as flexible - and in many ways, quicker, than
Av, Ts or M. I think some use Av or Ts in prference because they
can't think quickly enough or don't understand the pairing issue.

Simon

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[bee]

I have my 1Ds now for about 4 weeks and never bothered to look at P mode in the manual to learn about it because I was convinced I knew all about it and would only be using the other modes anyway....Ahh, how wrong I was...

Thanks again, Simon

Cheers, Bee

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

If all you are looking for is the best possible combination for
proper exposure, what could possibly be wrong with it. If, on the
other hand, you are looking for the best combination for a specific
sitation then av or tv is obviously better. Full manual, probably
only for very special situations where you want total control over
everything. I feel manual for most of my shots would be a waste of
time and a pain to boot.

John,

The best possible combination for proper exposure is easy to
acheive in P mode. The cameras choice is only the initial one. I
think there are too many people that think it is just a P&S mode -
sure, it can be used that way, but the resultant Aperture/Shutter
speed pair, can be shifted using the control dial to anywhere you
want them to be, and EV comp adds the final element that gives you
EXACTLY as much control as in any of the other modes.

Simon

 

[DavidP #28649]

Ideally, you're always evaluating whether you should change Av or Tv (and/or ISO) when in Av, Tv, or M mode.

I say "ideally" because it doesn't always end up happening that way. I hate it when I look down and find that I'm shooting at 1/60 on a 100-400 IS (on a monpod) because I've been shooting at ISO 200 and f/8 in the sun (in Av mode) and have now moved into the shade. Doh!

P mode makes you always look at aperture and shutter values and
shift accordingly. Whereas if you use Tv or Av you can set the
shutter or aperture to the value needed and just go to work and not
worry about shifting at all.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[DavidP #28649]

I think we're both saying the same thing, just with different accents.

Gottcha with the OT thang again .

Seems like you are having a rough day with HyperFish and your
equipment/technique thing

He did have some good points, although he could use a lesson or two
in tact. Just MO.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Olaf.dk]

There is nothing that can't be
done with P mode that can be done with the others. It just
automates the presentation of an initial setting, and couples the
adjustment. The fact that it is shiftable, and overridable (Ev
comp) make it just as flexible - and in many ways, quicker, than
Av, Ts or M.

Manual mode sure comes in handy when shooting with studio flashes - or other times when you want to make several identical exposures! Here P-mode would be ineffecient and slow, especially if you would have to make adjustments to the cameras suggested exposure on every frame. P-mode is great and you can get far by shifting and/or compensating exposure, but there are times when M, Av or Tv is just more convenient to use. Would you be happy with a D1 featuring nothing but P-mode? I didn't think so!

Olaf

PS. I am surprised to see a lot of posts in this thread from people who obviously think that the exposure mode is somehow linked to the metering mode. Last time I checked these two parameters could be set individually on just about any EOS-camera. Yes, on a 1D you can do a spot meter reading in P-mode! (Unfortunately lower level EOS-cameras, including 10D, don't really feature true spot metering).

--
Canon G1 owner since December 2000 - G2 owner since May 2002
Flash system: a Canon 420EX, a Canon 550EX and a Canon ST-E2.
After the pictures are taken:
Mac G4/450Mhz, 1Gb RAM, 21' Mac Studio Display w/Colorsync

 

[Troponin]

have a problem with insensitivity!!!!!

In any event, to keep this OT--

I don't use P-mode, because it takes the fun out of being a photog.

Gottcha with the OT thang again .

Seems like you are having a rough day with HyperFish and your
equipment/technique thing

He did have some good points, although he could use a lesson or two
in tact. Just MO.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[DavidP #28649]

It's not so much "insensitivity", IMO, as it is an issue of time. Who has the time to try to be completely "PC" and to present several viewpoints?

The fact of the matter is that he's presenting his side of the discussion, and I'm presenting mine (where it differs). While I occasionally will state where/when we agree on a point, it's all too easy to simply not do that, in the interest of time.

I have a feeling that if I used P-mode, it'd end up just being the equivalent of Av mode anyway. LOL.

have a problem with insensitivity!!!!!

In any event, to keep this OT--

I don't use P-mode, because it takes the fun out of being a photog.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Olaf.dk]

"P" mode is just too much trouble if you're going to use something
else for "more control." As opposed to giving you less to think
about, P mode actually gives you more to think about. It requires
too much paying attention to what the aperture and shutter are
suggested by the camera, then shifting on the fly to what you want
for a particular scene. Why not just set the camera the way you
want beforehand?

If you want to shoot kids running around, nothing set up, what's so
difficult about choosing a wide aperture in Av mode? I'd venture to
say that's how about 90% of experienced SLR users would do it.
Choose a wide aperture that will give you a decent shutter speed to
stop motion, then forget about it and take shots of the kids
running around.

The metering will work just the same no matter what mode you're
shooting in, so feel free to get comfortable with the other modes.
In all seriousness, I think you'll find that once you're more
comfortable with your camera and maybe understand exposure a little
better, P mode is actually more trouble than the other modes,
rather than less.

Well said Brian Kennedy!

Olaf
--
Canon G1 owner since December 2000 - G2 owner since May 2002
Flash system: a Canon 420EX, a Canon 550EX and a Canon ST-E2.
After the pictures are taken:
Mac G4/450Mhz, 1Gb RAM, 21' Mac Studio Display w/Colorsync

 

[DavidP #28649]

The 1D/1Ds have P-mode, but not a "green mode", nor any of the "icon modes" (portrait, sports, etc).

I never used a 1D
or 1Ds and couldn't even tell you if they have a full auto mode or
any difference with the P mode on my camera

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!