So what is so wrong about P mode?

[JOHN CALLANAN]

I'm gobsmacked at the lack of knowledge being displayed ....

Funny, that is what I kind of expected to hear. Some think that you MUST be in M Tv or Av to get good results. I wrote to say P, hits it about right on most walk around shots, and you can always use the shift, lock or comp. features for a semi-set shot. Then you know the camera is in P and won't blow the next shot becuase you did not take the time to re-set it.

 

[JOHN CALLANAN]

Obviously, if I were to be shooting them playing a game in the back yard, Av would likley be the choice for the reasons you state.

However on a hike when you are moving from shadows to sun. A shot of 4 of them leading up a trail when you want all for within the DOF, then turn around and see the little one catching up to the pack, but there is a group of people behind him, so now you want a shallow DOF.

P with a quick shift will do the trick much simplier than changing the apeture for each.

Of course if I were to pose them all somewhere then I would have the time to think...Apeture, shutter, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I see and use the benifits of the Av, Tv and M modes. But also realize the convienance of P. And with a 3 small kids on family events, I find P to be right for me.

 

[JOHN CALLANAN]

On the S400, there isn't any program shift.

And, yes, on the 1D or 10D, you can program shift in P-mode. But
why bother, if you know you want to shoot at a specific aperture?

The point exacty..In a days walking around you might not want to shoot in a specific aperture. Shift to isolate, or shift for lots of depth. and the camera goes back to regular P right after you take that shot.

 

[cpr1954]

it's great to see some folks admit to learning things..

good job Simon.. !! it was good reading your battle to convince them..

cheers..

I guess it does pay to read the manual!!
Tom

Indeed. I'm sort of used to this from my Minolta days. On my 800si, you actually had two types of program shift - Ps or Pa. In Ps, shifting would move the shutter speed (aperture being under automatic), and Pa would move the aperture (shutter speed being automatic).

It was like having either Av or Ts in a single mode, such that you
could get even quicker selection of what you wanted based on a
given Ev. It was a GREAT feature.

Simon

--
CANON 10D - S-30 - A-1 film

 

[DavidP #28649]

I was going mainly by comments of others. I don't think that Sports, Portrait, etc. have any way of adjusting exposure compensation. But I wouldn't bet much on that fact without consulting a manual.

That I think, is the problem. P mode has it's uses, but it would
be incredibly useful if the "dummy modes" were to offer the same
degree of override as P mode. In a sports situation for instance,
where you wanted to pre-focus, use -0.3EV, but to have a sports
curve on the program. As it is, if you need to deviate from camera
metering, or override anything, you can't, thus they become an
unused feature. I wouldn't mind if I weren't paying for them. But
as I am paying for them, the least they could do is make them have
some potential use

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[DavidP #28649]

I didn't come up with the term "idiot modes" or "dummy modes".

I still call a "warning lamp" on a car (instead of an appropriate gage) an "idiot lamp", too, in spite of the fact that I've owned cars that had them.

And then there's the whole "xxxx for Dummies" series of books.

People need to grow a little hide.

OK, let's start calling them "not-inclined-to-study-the-basics modes", then.

I think the "icon modes" (sports, landscape) are the true "dummy
modes". And, no, there's nothing wrong with them.

and yet you call them "dummy modes"? not everyone can be
brilliant and use a camera to the level some people here can.
Doesn't mean one has to denegrate what they do use as "dummy".

some people enjoy the mechanics of taking pictures, some enjoy
being there when the picture is taken (someone has a great sig line
on that!)

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[rge]

I just don't get it???

P mode gives you a starting point for a measured EV. It is only a starting point. If you want shallow DOF then turn the wheel by the shutter clockwise and if you want greater DOF turn it conter-clockwise, it will adjust the aperture and shutter accordingly to maintain the EV. If you want to increase the EV turn the dial in the back clockwise.

I just dont get what this is all about??

Mike

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Mike Flaherty
http://imageevent.com/mflaherty/mikesgallery

 

[DavidP #28649]

But what if you want to take a SERIES of shots at some specific aperture or shutter speed? Does P-mode remember a "shift" that you've recently used for some period of time?

If one truly doesn't care about what aperture or shutter speed is being used, and isn't going to override the camera's choice very often, then P-mode makes a lot of sense.

I just think I'd end up doing a lot of shifting.

And, yes, on the 1D or 10D, you can program shift in P-mode. But
why bother, if you know you want to shoot at a specific aperture?

The point exacty..In a days walking around you might not want to
shoot in a specific aperture. Shift to isolate, or shift for lots
of depth. and the camera goes back to regular P right after you
take that shot.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[DavidP #28649]

At least for me, I tend to do a lot of shots at one specific aperture or shutter speed (or even a specific combination in manual mode).

It doesn't seem to make much sense to be constantly adjusting from P-mode's guess, when I can just dial in what I want and leave it there.

I just don't get it???

P mode gives you a starting point for a measured EV. It is only a
starting point. If you want shallow DOF then turn the wheel by the
shutter clockwise and if you want greater DOF turn it
conter-clockwise, it will adjust the aperture and shutter
accordingly to maintain the EV. If you want to increase the EV
turn the dial in the back clockwise.

I just dont get what this is all about??

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Leon Wittwer]

Here is a candidate. As my default mode, I prefer to use Av set a couple of fstops or more above max aperture to get more DOF, a more forgiving focus and work at the sweet spot of the lens. I will also go to ISO 400 or 800 before I open the aperture fully. P mode opens the aperture when I do not want that. Obviously, I use the other modes in some situations. Leon

Actually, it is often the case that they are showing off their
ignorance. I haven't seen an anti-P comment yet in this thread
that makes sense.

Simon

 

[Yakuza!]

Oh no, the über troll has returned. And I was just getting used to the forums quieting down to a sensible level. Now it all starts over. Look how many posts DavidP put in this ONE thread! Yikes man, get a life!

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that DavidP has so much money, and cool gear. I certainly wouldn't mind being in that position! And he is in a unique situation to provide real-world, user tested examples and reviews of products many of us only dream of! That's great!

But, seriously DavidP (if you're listening, and I'm sure you are), lay off all the posts! Look what happens when you do... All this endless garbage. Usefull information gets barried.

Big sigh.

-Yakuza

 

[DavidP #28649]

I answered the question.

Got a problem with that?

I have a life, thank you very much. At this point in time, DPR happens to be a part of my life. Maybe more than some care for. Don't worry, it won't always be that way.

As far as my being a "troll": if this forum had a way to easily set up polls, and an apprpriate forum for doing it, I'd gladly put myself up against you for that title.

Oh no, the über troll has returned. And I was just getting used to
the forums quieting down to a sensible level. Now it all starts
over. Look how many posts DavidP put in this ONE thread! Yikes man,
get a life!

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that DavidP has so much
money, and cool gear. I certainly wouldn't mind being in that
position! And he is in a unique situation to provide real-world,
user tested examples and reviews of products many of us only dream
of! That's great!

But, seriously DavidP (if you're listening, and I'm sure you are),
lay off all the posts! Look what happens when you do... All this
endless garbage. Usefull information gets barried.

Big sigh.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[MilesTHD]

In dark (low light) situation, you can use manual mode for flash
photog.---- try it (you can set the Av and Tv and let the flash do
the rest).

This maybe a bit much for you-- if not have fun.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
m i l e s
http://www.pbase.com/milest

 

[DavidP #28649]

In dark (low light) situation, you can use manual mode for flash
photog.---- try it (you can set the Av and Tv and let the flash do
the rest).

This maybe a bit much for you-- if not have fun.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
m i l e s
http://www.pbase.com/milest

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Troponin]

before suggesting that DavidP is a troll..

Please lightenup a bit

seesh only one month on the forum and you calling the vet a troll.

Oh no, the über troll has returned. And I was just getting used to
the forums quieting down to a sensible level. Now it all starts
over. Look how many posts DavidP put in this ONE thread! Yikes man,
get a life!

Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that DavidP has so much
money, and cool gear. I certainly wouldn't mind being in that
position! And he is in a unique situation to provide real-world,
user tested examples and reviews of products many of us only dream
of! That's great!

But, seriously DavidP (if you're listening, and I'm sure you are),
lay off all the posts! Look what happens when you do... All this
endless garbage. Usefull information gets barried.

Big sigh.

-Yakuza

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[Troponin]

arrrogant no--- insensitive maybe...

Have you always been this arrogant or have you recently started
taking pills?

Frank

In any event, I agree with you abouit P-mode and 1D and 1Ds--- puts
the Dxx and 10 in there place--- consumer and barely prosumer.

I wonder why????

Could this be consumer vs. pro?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
I plan on living forever - so far so good!

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[DavidP #28649]

He was around for longer than a month.

Try Yakuza without the !

seesh only one month on the forum and you calling the vet a troll.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

 

[Troponin]

you would loose---- don't play the lotto.

P-mode are for those learning photog and need to be handheld during the learning process.

If the camera can think for me and decide exactly what I want to achieve, then I too would use P-mode. LOL

Is this clearer???

I trust you are laughing at the foolishness of his statement?

Simon

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[Troponin]

I want to think about the shot, set my controls and shoot, shoot
and shoot--- Let the creative jucies flow.

Thats why I don't use P- (idiot) mode. Even if I had a few to
many, I still shoot in Av or manual mode--- just to see how good I
am.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
Shooting in anything other than full manual is a character flaw. I
suspect that someone has serious "issues" with there self image if
they shot but only one picture in program mode. Indeed, this should
be taken as a sign of weakness, and professional counseling is in
order. Please take back control of your life before it ends in
tragedy.
Friends don't let friends shot in program mode.
Tim.

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[DavidP #28649]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4931136

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4931248

Start with those 2 replies (in the same thread), and be sure to read his follow-up relies.

Classics!

Try Yakuza without the !

seesh only one month on the forum and you calling the vet a troll.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Yes, this is ON-TOPIC!