So what is so wrong about P mode?

[Simon Watkins]

I do the same thing John. I like P mode sometimes, especially when
just snapping at a bunch of "stuff". Anyone who has a prob with it
is just showing off their "pro-ness".

Actually, it is often the case that they are showing off their ignorance. I haven't seen an anti-P comment yet in this thread that makes sense.

Simon

 

[Simon Watkins]

There is alot wrong with p-mode in dark situations. You don't have
control of the shot---duh.

Actually Troponin, you do have control of the shot. You can shift the set combination to whatever you want, and override it with EV Comp. There must be another aspect of control that you mean? Or did you not realise that the P setting is just a starting point that can be overridden or shifted?

Simon

 

[Simon Watkins]

John,

The whole point of P mode is to the let the camera
take it's best guess at the setup. The result is that it
uses some fairly average settings, like F5.6-8 for good
DOF and focus, a few 100ths of a second for speed to
stop motion, and having set the good generic F and S
settings appropriate to the lighting, away it goes. I use P
probably 75% of the time.

When I want to force DOF to wipe out distractions in the
background, or want a long exposure to blur a water fall,
want to insure that the entire FOV is in focus by using
large F number, I go to the other modes. Each tool has
it's use. In a studio, I would guess, not working at this,
that a lot of photgraphers use M so they can set it up for
the best results and not trust the camera to do better than
they can. Same thing with AF. Almost all the time AF is as good
as I am at focus, or better, but there are times it does not
get it or hunts or maybe does not focus where I want or
split the front-back ratio like I want, so I do the MF myself.

Bob,

Just a quick question - you know that the EV pair chosen in P mode by the camera can be shifted - either towards best shutter speed, or largest aperture by the front dial?

Simon

 

[Simon Watkins]

.............your lenses fare real well at any aperture the camera
selects.(doubtful)
The problem with p mode is that you don't have any part of the
decision making regarding apertures/shutter speeds. Might as well
go back to a P&S model.
John

I keep seeing this misconception. The photographer has every part of the decision making process. The control dial can shift it anyway that he or she likes - ie, want larger aperture, shift it, want a slower shutter speed? shift it.

If you are using the camera's metering, for Av or Ts or M, then you have ever bit as much control in P.

Simon

 

[Simon Watkins]

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

If all you are looking for is the best possible combination for
proper exposure, what could possibly be wrong with it. If, on the
other hand, you are looking for the best combination for a specific
sitation then av or tv is obviously better. Full manual, probably
only for very special situations where you want total control over
everything. I feel manual for most of my shots would be a waste of
time and a pain to boot.

John,

The best possible combination for proper exposure is easy to acheive in P mode. The cameras choice is only the initial one. I think there are too many people that think it is just a P&S mode - sure, it can be used that way, but the resultant Aperture/Shutter speed pair, can be shifted using the control dial to anywhere you want them to be, and EV comp adds the final element that gives you EXACTLY as much control as in any of the other modes.

Simon

 

[matthu]

Does this work even when using a flash? Without referring to the manual I had thought that P mode had fairly restrictive ideas about what shutter speed to use for flash, and that you needed to use Av mode or Tv mode if you wanted to ensure how much exposure the background received.

dimage,

P mode picks a setting for shutter speed and aperature when you
press the shutter release half way. You can tehn "program shift"
the settings with the control dial if you don't like what it chose.

Say you are shooting P mode and you press the shutter release half
way, in the viewfinder you will see the speed and aperature taht
has been chosen to give "proper" exposure. Now, say it has chosen a
wider aperature than you want, becuase you want the Dof to be small
in this shot. Just rotate the dial and wht in the view finder - it
will adjsut both the shutter speed and aperature - up or down
depending on which way you trun the dial.

If at the same time you want to dial in some EV compensation, just
use the thumb dial on the back of the camera.

The end result is the same as if you had used AV or TV (or even M)
mode - assuming you trust the exposure reading/setting from the
camera. The differnce is instead of setting one of them manually
and etting the camera set the other, you are in effect setting both
at the same time.

It always amuses me when I hear people say they only ever use Av,
Tv and M because it gives them more "control". It doesn't unless
they are using an external meter. There is nothing that can't be
done with P mode that can be done with the others. It just
automates the presentation of an initial setting, and couples the
adjustment. The fact that it is shiftable, and overridable (Ev
comp) make it just as flexible - and in many ways, quicker, than
Av, Ts or M. I think some use Av or Ts in prference because they
can't think quickly enough or don't understand the pairing issue.

Simon

--
Matthew

 

[Dave Abrey]

The best possible combination for proper exposure is easy to
acheive in P mode. The cameras choice is only the initial one. I
think there are too many people that think it is just a P&S mode -
sure, it can be used that way, but the resultant Aperture/Shutter
speed pair, can be shifted using the control dial to anywhere you
want them to be, and EV comp adds the final element that gives you
EXACTLY as much control as in any of the other modes.

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for pointing this aspect of the P mode out - I was one of those people that thought that it is a P&S mode ;-). However, I think that I'll give it a try now that I know I can use the program shift to change the initial settings.

You learn something new every day .

On the subject of the initial settings, does anyone know what the starting point for the aperture and shutter speed settings are for the P mode?

Cheers,

Dave.

 

[Fred Bopp]

P mode picks a setting for shutter speed and aperature when you
press the shutter release half way. You can tehn "program shift"
the settings with the control dial if you don't like what it chose.

Say you are shooting P mode and you press the shutter release half
way, in the viewfinder you will see the speed and aperature taht
has been chosen to give "proper" exposure. Now, say it has chosen a
wider aperature than you want, becuase you want the Dof to be small
in this shot. Just rotate the dial and wht in the view finder - it
will adjsut both the shutter speed and aperature - up or down
depending on which way you trun the dial.

If at the same time you want to dial in some EV compensation, just
use the thumb dial on the back of the camera.

The end result is the same as if you had used AV or TV (or even M)
mode - assuming you trust the exposure reading/setting from the
camera. The differnce is instead of setting one of them manually
and etting the camera set the other, you are in effect setting both
at the same time.

Frank

I prefer to use "M" when I can so I know what is going to happen,
but if the light is variable I will often change to "Av" so I can
control the aperture and let the shutter speed be whatever it has
to be. More rarely, I will choose Tv.

I guess I just don't know what the camera will pick in "P" mode (I
know there is a table some place). Maybe I am just more of a
control freak )

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
I plan on living forever - so far so good!

 

[Tom Melanson]

I guess it does pay to read the manual!!
Tom

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

If all you are looking for is the best possible combination for
proper exposure, what could possibly be wrong with it. If, on the
other hand, you are looking for the best combination for a specific
sitation then av or tv is obviously better. Full manual, probably
only for very special situations where you want total control over
everything. I feel manual for most of my shots would be a waste of
time and a pain to boot.

John,

The best possible combination for proper exposure is easy to
acheive in P mode. The cameras choice is only the initial one. I
think there are too many people that think it is just a P&S mode -
sure, it can be used that way, but the resultant Aperture/Shutter
speed pair, can be shifted using the control dial to anywhere you
want them to be, and EV comp adds the final element that gives you
EXACTLY as much control as in any of the other modes.

Simon

 

[Paul Pope]

Nothing is bad about it ...as long P mode isn't being tricked ..which happens about 50% of the time ....

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

 

[Mark Gillett]

If you buy a 1D you are spendning money on its metering, autofocus, build quality and a few other specs, certainly not its modes. If it is modes you are paying fro you would buy the cheapest Canon going because they all have the same.

M

Jim

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Photography should be fun

http://www.pbase.com/jcollins

 

[matthu]

Please expand on why you think P mode is being tricked 50% of the time Paul? And whether this applies equally to Tv mode or Av mode.

(Assume we haven't yet gone blind.)

Nothing is bad about it ...as long P mode isn't being tricked
..which happens about 50% of the time ....
'Stop it now or you will go blind'

--
Matthew

 

[Chuck A]

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

Absolutely nothing. It is one of the tools that the photographer uses and the 1D has such a great metering system that it is seems useable. I have a few problems with it now and then but it works pretty well on my D30 as well.

--
Thanks & God Bless,
Chuck
http://www.pbase.com/candrask

'Our actions are the demonstration of our character'

 

[Chuck A]

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

Absolutely nothing. It is one of the tools that the photographer
uses and the 1D has such a great metering system that it is seems
useable. I have a few problems with it now and then but it works
pretty well on my D30 as well.

--
Thanks & God Bless,
Chuck
http://www.pbase.com/candrask

'Our actions are the demonstration of our character'

It is actually more important how you meter.

--
Thanks & God Bless,
Chuck
http://www.pbase.com/candrask

'Our actions are the demonstration of our character'

 

[Simon Watkins]

Does this work even when using a flash? Without referring to the
manual I had thought that P mode had fairly restrictive ideas about
what shutter speed to use for flash, and that you needed to use Av
mode or Tv mode if you wanted to ensure how much exposure the
background received.

Yeah, I concede that Flash options are different. But for any other non-flash exposure situation, there is no difference to the amount of control available. And from many of the comments I've seen in this thread, there are many that don't understand this fact.

Simon

 

[John Harrison82293]

P mode picks a setting for shutter speed and aperature when you
press the shutter release half way. You can tehn "program shift"
the settings with the control dial if you don't like what it chose.

Say you are shooting P mode and you press the shutter release half
way, in the viewfinder you will see the speed and aperature taht
has been chosen to give "proper" exposure. Now, say it has chosen a
wider aperature than you want, becuase you want the Dof to be small
in this shot. Just rotate the dial and wht in the view finder - it
will adjsut both the shutter speed and aperature - up or down
depending on which way you trun the dial.

If at the same time you want to dial in some EV compensation, just
use the thumb dial on the back of the camera.

The end result is the same as if you had used AV or TV (or even M)
mode - assuming you trust the exposure reading/setting from the
camera. The differnce is instead of setting one of them manually
and etting the camera set the other, you are in effect setting both
at the same time.

Frank

I prefer to use "M" when I can so I know what is going to happen,
but if the light is variable I will often change to "Av" so I can
control the aperture and let the shutter speed be whatever it has
to be. More rarely, I will choose Tv.

I guess I just don't know what the camera will pick in "P" mode (I
know there is a table some place). Maybe I am just more of a
control freak )

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
I plan on living forever - so far so good!

 

[Simon Watkins]

The best possible combination for proper exposure is easy to
acheive in P mode. The cameras choice is only the initial one. I
think there are too many people that think it is just a P&S mode -
sure, it can be used that way, but the resultant Aperture/Shutter
speed pair, can be shifted using the control dial to anywhere you
want them to be, and EV comp adds the final element that gives you
EXACTLY as much control as in any of the other modes.

Simon

Simon,

Thanks for pointing this aspect of the P mode out - I was one of
those people that thought that it is a P&S mode ;-). However, I
think that I'll give it a try now that I know I can use the program
shift to change the initial settings.

Dave, no probs - I don't think you are alone in thinking that the mode has limitations, when it doesn't. About the only time differences can be noted, are when using Flash - nonetheless, the P mode actually handles flash very well.

You learn something new every day .

On the subject of the initial settings, does anyone know what the
starting point for the aperture and shutter speed settings are for
the P mode?

I can only speak in detail from my Minolta days - not that I expect the Canon to operate largely differently.

There is normally a profile - a program if you like, that takes into account focal length in use, and the EV conditions at the time. The bias (as I understand it, favours a choice that favours setting aperture to a mid-range value (eg f8) whilst there is enough light, then in a low light situation, would open up the aperture to ensure there was sufficient shutter speed to avoid camera shake for the focal length in use. At the other extreme, in bright light, it will ramp down the aperture to keep shutter speed within limits. Minolta used to have curves available that showed how the camera made the judement, but I've not seen anything similar for the Canon.

The profile is going to be general purpose, as for any on EV value as measured by the meter, there will be a myriad of EV pairs that result in that same exposure. The camera can only choose one, but given that you can shift it to where you want it to be, it doesn't really matter.

What would be great, would be if the "idiot" modes were made more flexible, with the same degree of control as P. That way you could select a sports program bias, such that the initial choice of the camera was closer to where you probably wanted it to be.

In P mode, it's only the initial choice that is automatic - it's fully alterable, and fully over-rideable in any respect. It's very neat. I use it all the time, expect for where I know that I'm going to have to shift it each time - eg, where I want a particularly high shutter speed in bright light. (Hence the need for a choice of different curves that would save me doing that). In those circumstances, I just switch to Ts. The danger then is if the light changes. I need to investigate the CF more, but there is a mode that would account for that scenario, controlled by the custom function.

Simon

 

[Simon Watkins]

I guess it does pay to read the manual!!
Tom

Indeed. I'm sort of used to this from my Minolta days. On my 800si, you actually had two types of program shift - Ps or Pa. In Ps, shifting would move the shutter speed (aperture being under automatic), and Pa would move the aperture (shutter speed being automatic).

It was like having either Av or Ts in a single mode, such that you could get even quicker selection of what you wanted based on a given Ev. It was a GREAT feature.

Simon

 

[Troponin]

I didn't coined the term idiot mode-- got it from a post way way back from the early D30 days

I want to think about the shot, set my controls and shoot, shoot
and shoot--- Let the creative jucies flow.

Thats why I don't use P- (idiot) mode. Even if I had a few to
many, I still shoot in Av or manual mode--- just to see how good I
am.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

 

[Troponin]

it may have been a little insensitive (that I will apologize for).

The equipment list is meant to be a joke---- guess it worked.

In dark (low light) situation, you can use manual mode for flash
photog.---- try it (you can set the Av and Tv and let the flash do
the rest).

This maybe a bit much for you-- if not have fun.

I have a 1D, a couple of L zooms and a couple fast short primes
that I bought to help shoot my kids sports. I love it all so far.

However when I am traveling, hiking, or just shooting the family in
the yard kind of stuff, I find myself relying on the P mode.

The family is always moving around, nothing is ever set up or posed.

I will use AE lock or Program shift sometimes for some more control.

The 1D does such a great job at metering that P works great almost
all the time. Compared to the spikey histograms I was almost always
getting with my E-10, the histograms on my 1D images are nice,
smooth curves.

So...What is so bad about shooting in P mode?

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's

--
John

--
Troponin (Trop)
I must admit, I gotta problem with typo's