Should I replace 20D with a 40D?

Agree with jb2u here. The 40D is a heck of a camera, but if one of the main reasons to upgrade is for the screen, the 50D (if you have the bucks) is the first xxD in the series to get the high-res screen and high-res image review. There's a heck of a difference.
I can confirm that the image review could be somewhat better, image review is just no good for judging if the shots are in perfect focus or slightly off...
Liveview is tack sharp though...

So if you want a better LCD for image review, go for the 50D (I don't know if 50D is actually better?) - or a future 60D...

I upgraded from 350D to 40D myself.

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Brian
http://www.pbase.com/thelund
 
...You zoom right in after taking the pic. Just back off a few presses and it is no problem.

The 40D is an excellent camera and for the price you have been offered it is a steal.

I never found the LCD to be a problem in any way and it is far better than the 20d

Although I now own the 7d and yes every thing about it including the LCD is better than the 40d, I really enjoyed using it and sold a lot of pics taken with it and still am.

Sel ................ :)
To me, PC means personal computer, not politically correct.
http://flickr.com/photos/selsphotos/
http://sel.photosales.co.nz
 
I think the 7D may be a better bet in the long run. It will still take the lenses that I have and seems to be the best Canon going before you move into the Pro league. I know it means a fair bit more money
It's a hell of a lot more money and to be honest, despite how good it is, probably not worth anywhere near the difference between £350 and £1200 unless you're massively into shooting JPGs and need massive amounts of cropping or printing billboards.

The XXDs evolved to a stage with the 40D where it's Good enough for almost anything from weddings to press work - may not be the best but for under £400, it's amazing value and imager wise IMO better than the 50D (which should have got the fabulous 12Mp sensor which was Wasted in the 450D) ..

I use the 40D as a backup to a Brace of 1DS MK2s for the main part of my Job (rest is Nikons) and I'd not hesitate to use it in confidence if the 1DS2 blew a gasket - OK my 40D's AF is Bang on despite not having Microtuning (as good as the best, finely tuned 50D) and a lot of XXD cams (including the 7D from the forum posts) can be troublesome for AF....

Lets get real here - I used to do my whole job on a 1D Mk1 (a noisy £4500 4Mp Pro DSLR from 2001) and a D60 (No, not the plastic Nikon toy thing, the slow £2000 6Mp Canon from 2002) and so did millions of others and if anyone back then offered me a "Super-D60" type cam with 10 clean Mp, 6.5FPS and a 3" LCD (which even on the 40D , when compared to a 1D Mk1 screen is like comparing a 52" plasma to a 70s "Sinclair Pocket telly") for £350 mint boxed, I'd be looking for Martians landing or in the very least, the Police ..

But Bodies come and go and time moves on, I'm sure you'd get loads of mileage from a 40D and when they Finally put the 1D series AF in a XXD type body , or at least an AF system which doesn't keep AF issues threads filling the front page, you can upgrade gladly in the knowledge you didn't lose much if any money in the mean time and to be honest, not lost much, if anything in image quality .

Just my thoughts on the matter after running Canon DSLR bodies in a working environment for over 8 years...

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
I would like a long lens but I can't justify one really as i don't do long shot photography. But i can see the attraction.
Jules
I would also like the 7D, but I’m going for an EF 400mm f5.6 L, this should help with the smaller birds when I’m on holiday in a couple of weeks, plus it will be a good lens for the air shows I go too :)
I’m sure you will be very happy with the 7D I know I would be.

--
Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/

Jim
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
I completely understand your thoughts Adam, most DSLRs over £500 are b* y good let's face it. We are spoiled for choice. But having done this research i am worried about the LCD probs on the 40D, and since this is one of the main reasons for upgrading from the useless LCD on my 10D I want to get this right, and it will be my last upgrade for a very long time. We run a pro business but this camera is for my private work, although hopefuly to sell at a future date as we are hoping to steer our business which is portraits, to selling more of our own work. I can recoup the VAT and tax on a new 7D whereas I couldn't on a second hand 40D, the warranties of a new camera also are obviously an advantage. We also use Nikons in our business, fronted by the D2x and backed up with a D700 for location stuff and a D200. I have no allegiance to Nikon or Canon, they are both great camera makers (i'm just not keen on Sonys). I'm sure the 40D is fine and the 50D is a good camera but with the opportunity of the D7 I think I will be more inspired to do more work.
Jules
I think the 7D may be a better bet in the long run. It will still take the lenses that I have and seems to be the best Canon going before you move into the Pro league. I know it means a fair bit more money
It's a hell of a lot more money and to be honest, despite how good it is, probably not worth anywhere near the difference between £350 and £1200 unless you're massively into shooting JPGs and need massive amounts of cropping or printing billboards.

The XXDs evolved to a stage with the 40D where it's Good enough for almost anything from weddings to press work - may not be the best but for under £400, it's amazing value and imager wise IMO better than the 50D (which should have got the fabulous 12Mp sensor which was Wasted in the 450D) ..

I use the 40D as a backup to a Brace of 1DS MK2s for the main part of my Job (rest is Nikons) and I'd not hesitate to use it in confidence if the 1DS2 blew a gasket - OK my 40D's AF is Bang on despite not having Microtuning (as good as the best, finely tuned 50D) and a lot of XXD cams (including the 7D from the forum posts) can be troublesome for AF....

Lets get real here - I used to do my whole job on a 1D Mk1 (a noisy £4500 4Mp Pro DSLR from 2001) and a D60 (No, not the plastic Nikon toy thing, the slow £2000 6Mp Canon from 2002) and so did millions of others and if anyone back then offered me a "Super-D60" type cam with 10 clean Mp, 6.5FPS and a 3" LCD (which even on the 40D , when compared to a 1D Mk1 screen is like comparing a 52" plasma to a 70s "Sinclair Pocket telly") for £350 mint boxed, I'd be looking for Martians landing or in the very least, the Police ..

But Bodies come and go and time moves on, I'm sure you'd get loads of mileage from a 40D and when they Finally put the 1D series AF in a XXD type body , or at least an AF system which doesn't keep AF issues threads filling the front page, you can upgrade gladly in the knowledge you didn't lose much if any money in the mean time and to be honest, not lost much, if anything in image quality .

Just my thoughts on the matter after running Canon DSLR bodies in a working environment for over 8 years...

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
Thanks for your views and i respect them, let's face it I have had a lot of fun with the 10D, it has done me well. But as we all know a shiny new camera has it's escitement.
jules
...You zoom right in after taking the pic. Just back off a few presses and it is no problem.

The 40D is an excellent camera and for the price you have been offered it is a steal.

I never found the LCD to be a problem in any way and it is far better than the 20d

Although I now own the 7d and yes every thing about it including the LCD is better than the 40d, I really enjoyed using it and sold a lot of pics taken with it and still am.

Sel ................ :)
To me, PC means personal computer, not politically correct.
http://flickr.com/photos/selsphotos/
http://sel.photosales.co.nz
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
Stunning R2! I can't wait to upgrade.
Jules
Here are a few BIF's from the 50D and 400 f5.6L (BIF's are really a major test of the system). A couple are large files to help with analysis.

I regularly check for critical sharpness out in the field, which was an impossible task using the older displays. More in my galleries (EXIF is intact)...

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde













100% crop...



Best of luck,

R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
. I can recoup the VAT and tax on a new 7D whereas I couldn't on a second hand 40D, the warranties of a new camera also are obviously an advantage. We also use Nikons in our business, fronted by the D2x and backed up with a D700 for location stuff and a D200
That says it all - get the 7D and no messing .... my 40D wasn't used, it was a "new" ex-display one from Park cameras and cheap too - it'll spend 90% of the time sitting idle in a bag so a 7D is a waste for that (especially as the 1DS2s are virtually bombproof, even though one has done 196,000 now). I use a D90 (D80 before that, D50 before that, D1H before that) + superzoom or the S100FS for leisure stuff as its cheap, light, a good 12Mp sensor and doubles up as a backup for the Nikon side of the rig .. maybe a route you'd like to look into ..
I have no allegiance to Nikon or Canon, they are both great camera makers (
Agreed, have been running both systems for work AND play since the dawn of DSLRs - 1DS series for resolution and sheer see-through image quality as well as almost infallible AF and almost submergible weathersealing, they just clatter on and on for years .. the Nikon side, now its FF, aimed at ultra low light - both have lenses with different strengths to the other also ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
I agree with your analysis Adam :)
I've been running dslr's too since the d30
Now I have 5d and 40d and happy camper during work shoots
I think the 7D may be a better bet in the long run. It will still take the lenses that I have and seems to be the best Canon going before you move into the Pro league. I know it means a fair bit more money
It's a hell of a lot more money and to be honest, despite how good it is, probably not worth anywhere near the difference between £350 and £1200 unless you're massively into shooting JPGs and need massive amounts of cropping or printing billboards.

The XXDs evolved to a stage with the 40D where it's Good enough for almost anything from weddings to press work - may not be the best but for under £400, it's amazing value and imager wise IMO better than the 50D (which should have got the fabulous 12Mp sensor which was Wasted in the 450D) ..

I use the 40D as a backup to a Brace of 1DS MK2s for the main part of my Job (rest is Nikons) and I'd not hesitate to use it in confidence if the 1DS2 blew a gasket - OK my 40D's AF is Bang on despite not having Microtuning (as good as the best, finely tuned 50D) and a lot of XXD cams (including the 7D from the forum posts) can be troublesome for AF....

Lets get real here - I used to do my whole job on a 1D Mk1 (a noisy £4500 4Mp Pro DSLR from 2001) and a D60 (No, not the plastic Nikon toy thing, the slow £2000 6Mp Canon from 2002) and so did millions of others and if anyone back then offered me a "Super-D60" type cam with 10 clean Mp, 6.5FPS and a 3" LCD (which even on the 40D , when compared to a 1D Mk1 screen is like comparing a 52" plasma to a 70s "Sinclair Pocket telly") for £350 mint boxed, I'd be looking for Martians landing or in the very least, the Police ..

But Bodies come and go and time moves on, I'm sure you'd get loads of mileage from a 40D and when they Finally put the 1D series AF in a XXD type body , or at least an AF system which doesn't keep AF issues threads filling the front page, you can upgrade gladly in the knowledge you didn't lose much if any money in the mean time and to be honest, not lost much, if anything in image quality .

Just my thoughts on the matter after running Canon DSLR bodies in a working environment for over 8 years...

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Now I have 5d and 40d and happy camper during work shoots
The "Upgrade" to the 5D Mk1 and its fabulous (D700-like) 12Mp FF sensor is a classic case of Canon losing the plot big time - instead of keeping the best bit (that wonderful natively mega-clean 12Mp sensor) and ditching the weak part (the rest) and putting a tweaked version of the sensor in a 1V type body (1DS-III without the grip bit) Like Nikon later did with the D700, they kept the Junky body (along with the 20D AF) and stuck a pixel packed sensor in .. ..

Now we all know that Punters love Megapixels Right?, but the D700 has been a runaway success for Nikon and the 5D Mk1 was really the Forerunner of it - Shame Canon didn't upgrade the bit that really needed replacing (the body) and keep the good bit (the sensor) ..

Anyway, the result is that the 5D MK1 is one of the classic bargains of the second hand market, a shame that many are too blinded by Mp to pick one up, there are plenty out there..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
We looked hard at the 5D Mk11 against the D700 and went for the D700.
Jules
Now I have 5d and 40d and happy camper during work shoots
The "Upgrade" to the 5D Mk1 and its fabulous (D700-like) 12Mp FF sensor is a classic case of Canon losing the plot big time - instead of keeping the best bit (that wonderful natively mega-clean 12Mp sensor) and ditching the weak part (the rest) and putting a tweaked version of the sensor in a 1V type body (1DS-III without the grip bit) Like Nikon later did with the D700, they kept the Junky body (along with the 20D AF) and stuck a pixel packed sensor in .. ..

Now we all know that Punters love Megapixels Right?, but the D700 has been a runaway success for Nikon and the 5D Mk1 was really the Forerunner of it - Shame Canon didn't upgrade the bit that really needed replacing (the body) and keep the good bit (the sensor) ..

Anyway, the result is that the 5D MK1 is one of the classic bargains of the second hand market, a shame that many are too blinded by Mp to pick one up, there are plenty out there..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
I had both but preferred the 20D, the 40D could not track Ai servo shots for me as good as the 20D, also the 40D seems way too expensive, £200 - 250 s/be plenty for one.
 
We looked hard at the 5D Mk11 against the D700 and went for the D700.
Yep, and no doubt a "real" 5D MK2 using the Mk1 sensor in a more Pro body would have sold as well as the D700 has, especially given Canon's excellent selection of mid priced F4 full frame L glass - I find the D700 an invaluable tool in my work rig, stick on a 35 F2D , 50 F1.4 or the 85 F1.8 and you have a compact rig which can shoot in no light without assistance

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
If you look at ebay you will find the prices that they go for higher than £250, mostly above £300
jules
I had both but preferred the 20D, the 40D could not track Ai servo shots for me as good as the 20D, also the 40D seems way too expensive, £200 - 250 s/be plenty for one.
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
 
the images that I get from the 40D are, surprisingly, not as nice as those form the older but quieter - on a per pixel basis - 20D.
It is in RAW, they screwed the JPG engine in the 40D, in C1 the 40D is like a 10Mp 20D/30D - the 50D is a different matter, it's very noisy and the DR is instantly noticably weaker ..
This is just not true.... in fact when I had my 50D I posted 15 review sites that said the 50D had better noise control than the 40D at the image level.

I'm curious Adam.... do you or did you own the 50D?

I'm going to continue reading the rest of this thread, so I apologize ahead of time if you already answered this question.

edit... never mind, I read a bit further and see that you did own the 50D. But I still disagree about the noise and DR thing.
--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

--
'The truth is rarely pure and never simple' Oscar Wilde
 
the images that I get from the 40D are, surprisingly, not as nice as those form the older but quieter - on a per pixel basis - 20D.
It is in RAW, they screwed the JPG engine in the 40D, in C1 the 40D is like a 10Mp 20D/30D - the 50D is a different matter, it's very noisy and the DR is instantly noticably weaker ..
This is just not true.... in fact when I had my 50D I posted 15 review sites that said the 50D had better noise control than the 40D at the image level.

I'm curious Adam.... do you or did you own the 50D?

I'm going to continue reading the rest of this thread, so I apologize ahead of time if you already answered this question.

edit... never mind, I read a bit further and see that you did own the 50D. But I still disagree about the noise and DR thing.
Just to put this 40D 50D noise thing to bed, when the debate was at it's peak, I did this from the IR raw test data, comparing the two at different resolutions. Notice that the 50D is a better 10MP cmaera than the 40D is.



--
thomas
 
I don't get photographers (no matter how good their skills are) that spout old myths that have been dis-proven over and over again. And it is amazing how some of the veterans still don't get it. Or are just NOW getting the whole pixel view vs image size thing.

You would have to be a fool to think that the 50D wasn't better than the 40D in every way (sensor especially!!!). Geese as if resolution wasn't a huge factor in photography!

--
'The truth is rarely pure and never simple' Oscar Wilde
 
Wow, stunning shots R2D2, love that first one.
Thanks Jim. Nice tracking with the hawk!

I think you'll just love the 400. It's such a well-behaved lens (AF is very fast and Decisive).

Feed it as much light as you can. It can be shot at max aperture (I'm always at f5.6).

R2

--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
 

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