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Should I replace 20D with a 40D?
- Thread starter JulesJ
- Start date
Adam-T
Forum Pro
that's how I found it, even at Base ISO blue skies are peppered with noise and it hasn't the highlight recovery of the 40D - this is in RAW using C1 or another honest converter - the 50D has a better JPG engine, that's for sure
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
Then you must have a very unusual workflow, or failed to adapt it to the new camera.
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thomas
JulesJ
Forum Pro
Having read phil's review of the 50D I'm now more confused than ever. Somethings seem to have gotten better than it's predecessor the 40D, and some, it seems, worse. namely the quality of the High ISO images. I'm stuck now.
jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
Adam-T
Forum Pro
Having had both, I think all the changes to the body, operating system etc in the 50D were Positive (not massive upgrades but very worthwhile) but the sensor lets the 50D down and I prefer the image quality and less diffraction limiting of the 40D's 10Mp sensor - Believe me I'd not have gone back to the 40D and had to lose Microtuning & that better LCD as well as useful live view !! etc if I didn't think the sensor's DR was an issue - my workflow has no issue with the rest of the range I've owned or tried including the even more pixel packed 7D (I borrowed one) - However it's only a backup camera for me so YMMV ..
The 50D IMO should have had the 450D's 12Mp unit which I still feel was the best of the three sensors - all are sharp at pixel level, it's the difference in Noise and DR (Talking Natively in RAW here) which I've found separates them ..
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The 50D IMO should have had the 450D's 12Mp unit which I still feel was the best of the three sensors - all are sharp at pixel level, it's the difference in Noise and DR (Talking Natively in RAW here) which I've found separates them ..
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
We're in complete agreement Adam. Welcome back to 40d! I now have 40d and 5d
MAC
MAC
Having had both, I think all the changes to the body, operating system etc in the 50D were Positive (not massive upgrades but very worthwhile) but the sensor lets the 50D down and I prefer the image quality and less diffraction limiting of the 40D's 10Mp sensor - Believe me I'd not have gone back to the 40D and had to lose Microtuning & that better LCD as well as useful live view !! etc if I didn't think the sensor's DR was an issue - my workflow has no issue with the rest of the range I've owned or tried including the even more pixel packed 7D (I borrowed one) - However it's only a backup camera for me so YMMV ..
The 50D IMO should have had the 450D's 12Mp unit which I still feel was the best of the three sensors - all are sharp at pixel level, it's the difference in Noise and DR (Talking Natively in RAW here) which I've found separates them ..
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
jb2u
Leading Member
Sorry Jules, it was my Birthday Saturday, had a few beers!! so Sunday was a rest day lol.
I have the 40D it is my main camera with the 400D as backup, I put up with the low-res LCD as long as you know that some of the pictures might look soft, I can see the ones that are not good but I look at mine on the computer screen before I delete any, just to show you what the camera can do these were taken in the garden this afternoon, all are 50% crops, taken with the 70-200 f4 none IS with the Kenco Pro 300 1.4X
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Jim
I have the 40D it is my main camera with the 400D as backup, I put up with the low-res LCD as long as you know that some of the pictures might look soft, I can see the ones that are not good but I look at mine on the computer screen before I delete any, just to show you what the camera can do these were taken in the garden this afternoon, all are 50% crops, taken with the 70-200 f4 none IS with the Kenco Pro 300 1.4X
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Jim
JulesJ
Forum Pro
Beautiful Jb2u, nothing wrong with those.
Jules
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
Jules
--Sorry Jules, it was my Birthday Saturday, had a few beers!! so Sunday was a rest day lol.
I have the 40D it is my main camera with the 400D as backup, I put up with the low-res LCD as long as you know that some of the pictures might look soft, I can see the ones that are not good but I look at mine on the computer screen before I delete any, just to show you what the camera can do these were taken in the garden this afternoon, all are 50% crops, taken with the 70-200 f4 none IS with the Kenco Pro 300 1.4X
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Jim
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
Adam-T
Forum Pro
You get used to the Display pretty quickly, a soft image does look very different to one which is sharp but being mushed by the display firmware so after a day or two you can tell pretty much ......
It's a shame they didn't do an improved firmware to sort this because the LCD has more than enough pixels, I think lack of CPU power coupled with the 40D's new stance as the Poor person's 1D-III (a 6.5FPS first for this series) made them think fast rather than think sharp regarding playback - they could have put a Custom function in to choose between speed or detail at full mag though...
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
It's a shame they didn't do an improved firmware to sort this because the LCD has more than enough pixels, I think lack of CPU power coupled with the 40D's new stance as the Poor person's 1D-III (a 6.5FPS first for this series) made them think fast rather than think sharp regarding playback - they could have put a Custom function in to choose between speed or detail at full mag though...
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
Kokopelli_Rocks
Senior Member
Hi Jules,
I think this is a tough decision, I like the 40D a lot. I bought mine 3 years ago when the price fell to under $900. I found it a great camera a good step from the 20D. I really like the images from the 40D up to ISO 1600. Is it worth the upgrade for you, I would think only if you could get a really great price. I don't like buying cameras without a warranty.
I personally decided to skip the 50D, I did not like its high ISO performance. I think the 50D would have been a better offering with the 12 MP sensor. But this is me I shoot a lot of indoor sports.
The trade in program sounds interesting, but I can sell m 20D locally for ~$300 so I would have a final price of $929. This seems high for a refurbished 50D.
Ed
I think this is a tough decision, I like the 40D a lot. I bought mine 3 years ago when the price fell to under $900. I found it a great camera a good step from the 20D. I really like the images from the 40D up to ISO 1600. Is it worth the upgrade for you, I would think only if you could get a really great price. I don't like buying cameras without a warranty.
I personally decided to skip the 50D, I did not like its high ISO performance. I think the 50D would have been a better offering with the 12 MP sensor. But this is me I shoot a lot of indoor sports.
The trade in program sounds interesting, but I can sell m 20D locally for ~$300 so I would have a final price of $929. This seems high for a refurbished 50D.
Ed
jb2u
Leading Member
Thanks Jules, and just to let you know I got my 40D second hand, paid £500 for it about a year ago, it came with two original batteries and a 4Gig Extreme card and Lowepro Back pack.
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
Many people were confused by Phil's review, hence the very many threads at the time discussing it. At the time, phil had a very clear agenda, he seems to have dropped it now.
Like most DPR reviews, noise judgments are made at 100% crop of JPEG images. If you look at the raw results of the 50D, they show a sensor with just about the same low light performance as the 40D (it really is very close, within the limits of sample variation). However, viewed 100%, the 50D looks worse, due to being viewed larger. Canon seems to have responded to the likelihood of poor reviews on the basis of 100% crop tests, and a desire to outdo the D300 at high ISO, to have put in really aggressive NR as the default at high ISO's. Just turn it down and you're OK
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thomas
Alastair Norcross
Forum Pro
This was discussed a lot at the time. Almost everyone who has used both agrees that the 50D is better than the 40D in every respect, including high ISO performance. There are one or two who still deny that, probably because they never used a RAW converter that works well with the 50D. The latest version of ACR gives excellent results with the 50D. I have extensively tested my 50D against my 20D. The 50D is about a stop better at high ISO than the 20D. No-one claimed that the 40D was better at high ISO than the 20D. If you are upgrading now, and can't afford the 7D, you should definitely go for the 50D over the 40D, unless the price difference makes it impossible.
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Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile
JulesJ
Forum Pro
Can you explain exactly what the image looks like on the LCD. Is it blurred? Seems strange. My assistant is bringing hers in this week so I guess I will be able to have a play.
Jules
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
Jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
JulesJ
Forum Pro
The LCD on the 40D doesn't do it's job properly, right? Even if you focus correctly through the lens and take a shot, it will look a little unclear on the LCD. But it will show on your monitor ok and print fine? Yes?
Jules
--
Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
Jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
jb2u
Leading Member
The light was going but was able to get this taken at 280mm, you can see which is the picture of the 40D LCD, and the other is a 100% crop from the same file.
If your assistant is bringing her 40D in then I would check the quality of the LCD before making your mind up, its not a big deal but I do wish it had better at times.
LCD
100% crop
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
If your assistant is bringing her 40D in then I would check the quality of the LCD before making your mind up, its not a big deal but I do wish it had better at times.
LCD
100% crop
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
jb2u
Leading Member
Just noticed that my shutter speed was lower then the focal length, I never took much notice at the time, the shot was hand-held without IS so we might have a little camera movement in this test 
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
JulesJ
Forum Pro
I think this thread has been an eye opener for me and I'm beginning to think that if I'm going to upgrade at all I may as well do it properly. I think the 7D may be a better bet in the long run. It will still take the lenses that I have and seems to be the best Canon going before you move into the Pro league. I know it means a fair bit more money, but it would probably see me through quite a few more years of photography. I hadn't thought of it before but a friend suggested it and I've been looking closely at the spec. There's not a lot wrong with it it seems.
That's the trouble with these cameras, there's always a better one around the corner.
Jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
That's the trouble with these cameras, there's always a better one around the corner.
Jules
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Does Cameron look like Postman Pat or what?
jb2u
Leading Member
I would also like the 7D, but I’m going for an EF 400mm f5.6 L, this should help with the smaller birds when I’m on holiday in a couple of weeks, plus it will be a good lens for the air shows I go too 
I’m sure you will be very happy with the 7D I know I would be.
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
I’m sure you will be very happy with the 7D I know I would be.
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Australian Bug Life
http://www.lifeunseen.com/
Jim
R2D2
Forum Pro
Here are a few BIF's from the 50D and 400 f5.6L (BIF's are really a major test of the system). A couple are large files to help with analysis.
I regularly check for critical sharpness out in the field, which was an impossible task using the older displays. More in my galleries (EXIF is intact)...
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde
100% crop...
Best of luck,
R2
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*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
I regularly check for critical sharpness out in the field, which was an impossible task using the older displays. More in my galleries (EXIF is intact)...
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde
100% crop...
Best of luck,
R2
--
*
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
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