SD9 Resolution prediction

[bhenning]

I was just over in the "News Discussion" forum, and I can't quite believe the arguments for/against the Foveon sensor.

Believe me, I am just as anxious for the state of the art in sensor design to advance as the next guy; and I am VERY interested in seeing indepentend tests of the SD9... but when I see messages such as "it's the same as a 10Mp Bayer CCD for resolution" I just groan.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo receptors on that axis.

It is true that if you are trying to resolve Green/Black, Red/Black or Blue/Black lines the bayer sensor will be at a disadvantage; however as colors are rarely pure primary colors the de-bayering algorithm can compensate to a certain extent.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument - but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

If you are interested in the LPH/V of S2/D100/D60 look at Phil's S2 review at the bottom of http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page19.asp

Now a 6Mp Foveon sensor capable of ISO1600 would be a wonderful thing... but by the time that arrives, Nikon/Canon/Fuji will be shipping 12Mp-16Mp bayer sensors.

You just HAVE to love a tech "arms" race

Personally, I'd rather be out there shooting than arguing the merits of existing sensor tech vs. yet unreleased sensor tech. The fact is any of the current DSLR's are capable of producing great results - so enjoy photography!

Best Regards,

Bill

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

 

[Z (is real)]

Yeah, but the image should show a very nice blur in the above extinction resolution areas as opposed to chromatic artifacts wou get with many cameras. Small consolation perhaps

-Z-

I was just over in the "News Discussion" forum, and I can't quite
believe the arguments for/against the Foveon sensor.

Believe me, I am just as anxious for the state of the art in sensor
design to advance as the next guy; and I am VERY interested in
seeing indepentend tests of the SD9... but when I see messages such
as "it's the same as a 10Mp Bayer CCD for resolution" I just groan.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

It is true that if you are trying to resolve Green/Black, Red/Black
or Blue/Black lines the bayer sensor will be at a disadvantage;
however as colors are rarely pure primary colors the de-bayering
algorithm can compensate to a certain extent.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

If you are interested in the LPH/V of S2/D100/D60 look at Phil's S2
review at the bottom of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page19.asp

Now a 6Mp Foveon sensor capable of ISO1600 would be a wonderful
thing... but by the time that arrives, Nikon/Canon/Fuji will be
shipping 12Mp-16Mp bayer sensors.

You just HAVE to love a tech "arms" race

Personally, I'd rather be out there shooting than arguing the
merits of existing sensor tech vs. yet unreleased sensor tech. The
fact is any of the current DSLR's are capable of producing great
results - so enjoy photography!

Best Regards,

Bill

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

 

[Phil Askey]

Bahaha.. yeah ok. You're wrong.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

You mean Nyquist, you may be on a 'quest'.

A normal Bayer CFA causes a loss of resolution, a single pixel width line will never be represented as a single pixel width line on an image from a Bayer CFA sensor. It will on X3.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

Wrong.

A little knowledge...

 

[Jimmy Chen]

Because there is NO way around Nyquest...

Interesting info ...

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

LOL, I have been asking this question for a while now ... No one is able to answer it ...

If Foveon is just as good as a 6mp D60/D100/S2, then should those photographers that loves BW/IR purchase the SD9, or the D60/D100/S2? I like to see where that extra 2.5mp is going to come from under those conditions as well. ;p

But we think it is best to wait for the offical reviews ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[Ken Phillips]

I was just over in the "News Discussion" forum, and I can't quite
believe the arguments for/against the Foveon sensor.

Believe me, I am just as anxious for the state of the art in sensor
design to advance as the next guy; and I am VERY interested in
seeing indepentend tests of the SD9... but when I see messages such
as "it's the same as a 10Mp Bayer CCD for resolution" I just groan.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

It is true that if you are trying to resolve Green/Black, Red/Black
or Blue/Black lines the bayer sensor will be at a disadvantage;
however as colors are rarely pure primary colors the de-bayering
algorithm can compensate to a certain extent.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

If you are interested in the LPH/V of S2/D100/D60 look at Phil's S2
review at the bottom of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page19.asp

Now a 6Mp Foveon sensor capable of ISO1600 would be a wonderful
thing... but by the time that arrives, Nikon/Canon/Fuji will be
shipping 12Mp-16Mp bayer sensors.

You just HAVE to love a tech "arms" race

Personally, I'd rather be out there shooting than arguing the
merits of existing sensor tech vs. yet unreleased sensor tech. The
fact is any of the current DSLR's are capable of producing great
results - so enjoy photography!

Best Regards,

Bill

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

--

All kinds of old camera and motion picture bodies, lenses, tripods, enlargers, mostly gathering dust, because digital is immediate! NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

 

[Phil Askey]

It's amazing how many people still don't get it...

Two pixels side by side on an X3 image can have completely different colour (black / white, whatever). This can never be the case on a Bayer CFA image because of the way even a black and white shot is demosaic'd, every output pixels is an average of the surrounding pixels. Take a close look at a D30 or D60 resolution chart and you'll see what I mean.

Imagine a single wire stretched across a piece of white paper.. Taken with a Bayer CFA sensor the wire would be at least two pixels wide all the way across the image (plus some alias to keep the line smooth). With an X3 sensor the line would be one pixel wide.

If you want a rough approximation of what an X3 image could look like take a Bayer CFA image and downsample it by 50% in Photoshop. Doing this will in effect merge surrounding RGB pixels into one pixel and you'll be left with the kind of sharpness and resolution we can expect from the SD-9.

BTW. doing this to a 6 MP image will result in a 1.5 MP image.

Because there is NO way around Nyquest...

Interesting info ...

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

LOL, I have been asking this question for a while now ... No one is
able to answer it ...

If Foveon is just as good as a 6mp D60/D100/S2, then should those
photographers that loves BW/IR purchase the SD9, or the
D60/D100/S2? I like to see where that extra 2.5mp is going to come
from under those conditions as well. ;p

But we think it is best to wait for the offical reviews ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

 

[Peter G]

What you are stating is correct about Nyquist, but Phils chart measures Lines not Line Pairs.

Also the chart is normalized to vertical since different aspect ratios would need their own chart. So the horizontal number generally comes out the same as the vertical unless there is a problem.

So on the standard res chart used on those other cameras, the SD9 should score

Here is the 2048x2048 prototype doing about 2000 absolute. Time for a higher res chart.



But since people have been pretty generous with called resoloution on digital camera, SD9 will probably be 1500 Absolute and higher extinction..

Blowing away other 3MP cameras and into the ballpark of the 6MP Bayer cameras, pretty much as expected. It will probably look better doing it as well.

My stance always has been 3MP X3 ~ 6MP and given all else being equal I would take the former. But this is a first gen X3, so all else is not equal. Given a choice between a Sd9 and D60, I would choose the latter hands down.

For the most part reason will have no part of this argument until cameras are in peoples hands and they realize they are not some magical panacea reducing all other cameras to the dust bin. Many swept up in the mania of the moment, seem to have this view.

We should be thankfull for these early adopter who will embrace technology before it is refined. Allowing us to reap the rewards when it is perfected.

Peter

I was just over in the "News Discussion" forum, and I can't quite
believe the arguments for/against the Foveon sensor.

Believe me, I am just as anxious for the state of the art in sensor
design to advance as the next guy; and I am VERY interested in
seeing indepentend tests of the SD9... but when I see messages such
as "it's the same as a 10Mp Bayer CCD for resolution" I just groan.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

It is true that if you are trying to resolve Green/Black, Red/Black
or Blue/Black lines the bayer sensor will be at a disadvantage;
however as colors are rarely pure primary colors the de-bayering
algorithm can compensate to a certain extent.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

If you are interested in the LPH/V of S2/D100/D60 look at Phil's S2
review at the bottom of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page19.asp

Now a 6Mp Foveon sensor capable of ISO1600 would be a wonderful
thing... but by the time that arrives, Nikon/Canon/Fuji will be
shipping 12Mp-16Mp bayer sensors.

You just HAVE to love a tech "arms" race

Personally, I'd rather be out there shooting than arguing the
merits of existing sensor tech vs. yet unreleased sensor tech. The
fact is any of the current DSLR's are capable of producing great
results - so enjoy photography!

Best Regards,

Bill

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

 

[Ken Phillips]

until it failed to materialize, then the D60/D100/S2 showed up. Then ... I decided the systems weren't up to it, and got a 1D.
A 4-MP retrofit Foveon would make it perfect!
I do get it ... and I know how to spell Mr. Nyquist's name.
Ken

Two pixels side by side on an X3 image can have completely
different colour (black / white, whatever). This can never be the
case on a Bayer CFA image because of the way even a black and white
shot is demosaic'd, every output pixels is an average of the
surrounding pixels. Take a close look at a D30 or D60 resolution
chart and you'll see what I mean.

Imagine a single wire stretched across a piece of white paper..
Taken with a Bayer CFA sensor the wire would be at least two pixels
wide all the way across the image (plus some alias to keep the line
smooth). With an X3 sensor the line would be one pixel wide.

If you want a rough approximation of what an X3 image could look
like take a Bayer CFA image and downsample it by 50% in Photoshop.
Doing this will in effect merge surrounding RGB pixels into one
pixel and you'll be left with the kind of sharpness and resolution
we can expect from the SD-9.

BTW. doing this to a 6 MP image will result in a 1.5 MP image.

Because there is NO way around Nyquest...

Interesting info ...

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

LOL, I have been asking this question for a while now ... No one is
able to answer it ...

If Foveon is just as good as a 6mp D60/D100/S2, then should those
photographers that loves BW/IR purchase the SD9, or the
D60/D100/S2? I like to see where that extra 2.5mp is going to come
from under those conditions as well. ;p

But we think it is best to wait for the offical reviews ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

--

All kinds of old camera and motion picture bodies, lenses, tripods, enlargers, mostly gathering dust, because digital is immediate! NO Canon 1200mm f/5.6.

 

[benvision]

Two pixels side by side on an X3 image can have completely
different colour (black / white, whatever). This can never be the
case on a Bayer CFA image because of the way even a black and white
shot is demosaic'd, every output pixels is an average of the
surrounding pixels. Take a close look at a D30 or D60 resolution
chart and you'll see what I mean.

Imagine a single wire stretched across a piece of white paper..
Taken with a Bayer CFA sensor the wire would be at least two pixels
wide all the way across the image (plus some alias to keep the line
smooth). With an X3 sensor the line would be one pixel wide.

If you want a rough approximation of what an X3 image could look
like take a Bayer CFA image and downsample it by 50% in Photoshop.
Doing this will in effect merge surrounding RGB pixels into one
pixel and you'll be left with the kind of sharpness and resolution
we can expect from the SD-9.

BTW. doing this to a 6 MP image will result in a 1.5 MP image.

Because there is NO way around Nyquest...

Interesting info ...

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

LOL, I have been asking this question for a while now ... No one is
able to answer it ...

If Foveon is just as good as a 6mp D60/D100/S2, then should those
photographers that loves BW/IR purchase the SD9, or the
D60/D100/S2? I like to see where that extra 2.5mp is going to come
from under those conditions as well. ;p

But we think it is best to wait for the offical reviews ...

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

--
D7i & G1 Fashion pictures @ sabawa.com...waiting for
Foveon!

 

[Peter G]

He just didn't realize that the chart scaling is in lines, not line pairs. So he is off by two.

The maximum the camera will do is 1512. Done properly the test should reveal that. A number higher than this leaves the realm of reason and heads into fantasy.

It should be clear to anyone, with or without signalling theory that 1512 vertical pixels cannot display more than 1512 distinct lines. The test may not have been interpreted strictly enough in the past.

Peter

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

You mean Nyquist, you may be on a 'quest'.

A normal Bayer CFA causes a loss of resolution, a single pixel
width line will never be represented as a single pixel width line
on an image from a Bayer CFA sensor. It will on X3.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

Wrong.

A little knowledge...

 

[Jimmy Chen]

Imagine a single wire stretched across a piece of white paper..
Taken with a Bayer CFA sensor the wire would be at least two pixels
wide all the way across the image (plus some alias to keep the line
smooth). With an X3 sensor the line would be one pixel wide.

Thanks Phil, you are the first one that have explain it this way. What people have been saying in respect to Bayer layout is green being luminance and blue/red being color is what never made sense and confused the heck out of me. To me, green is just as important of a color as blue and red.

Now it is much more clear as what you just explained has to do with the pixel area (2x2) Bayer sensor requires to resolve what takes only one pixel with a Foveon chip. This is also much more clear then the associated claims of better then 4.5mp, 6 mp and 7mp Bayer chips. These numbers were almost popping out of no where like rabbits out of magical hats.

--
jc
Sony F707
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[Michael Salzlechner]

not sure where your brainwaves took a wrong turn but the numbers you predict for resolution are less than the ones for a comaprable 3MP bayer sensor (D30) and IMHO absolute cr@p.

As far as my prediciton goes the foveon will be somewhere in between the 3 and 6 sensors in terms of resolution (around the 5 mark i guess) but will also have better color reproduction and less artifacts which will allow better resampling and sharpening.

In addition of course that sure bayer sensors may have more res right now there is an end to upping resolution and the foveon will always have the same space to grow but again have 3 sensors for each sensor on the bayer.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

 

[Ulysses]

These numbers were almost popping out of no where like
rabbits out of magical hats.

Magic or not, whether you understood or believed us or not, those numbers were right. ;-)

I told you to trust us, Jimmy.

--

Ulysses

 

[Ulysses]

So you're saying that Phil and others who have been studying this are correct with the numbers they've been using.

But that you'll take the D60 now because the Foveon tech will get better tomorrow?

No problem there. It's just that as mature as the Bayer method is today, it remains with some of the same basic problems of needing to manufacture data no matter how it improves in these sensors, no matter the size of the sensor.

We all need perfected sensors. The ironic thing is that development and advancement are always fluid.

We should be thankfull for these early adopter who will embrace
technology before it is refined. Allowing us to reap the rewards
when it is perfected.

--

Ulysses

 

[Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D.]

hehehe .... how's about we just wait and see
Regards
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

 

[bhenning]

I believe I see where I interpreted Phil's charts differently than he probably intended.

I believed that his charts referred to line pairs; that is lines of different intensity alternating.

Based on what I read now, if you stretched 2048 photosite-wide wires across the CCD so that all photosites were occluded Phil would say that the sensor had 2048 lines of resolution.

The way I always understood the lines resolution tests, you would have to alternate an occluded line and a non-occluded (or opposite intensity) line, as otherwise 2048 lines is indistinguishable from 5,000 or 1,000,000 lines.

In this case, I do not understand the published results for the S2, D60, D100 etc., as a black/white test pattern should produce single (bayered) photosite "line" pattern (granted of varying colour) in the case of black lines on a white background eventually leading to a "pseudo-gray" coloured mess before turning solid black.

Thoroughly confused,

Bill

I was just over in the "News Discussion" forum, and I can't quite
believe the arguments for/against the Foveon sensor.

Believe me, I am just as anxious for the state of the art in sensor
design to advance as the next guy; and I am VERY interested in
seeing indepentend tests of the SD9... but when I see messages such
as "it's the same as a 10Mp Bayer CCD for resolution" I just groan.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

It is true that if you are trying to resolve Green/Black, Red/Black
or Blue/Black lines the bayer sensor will be at a disadvantage;
however as colors are rarely pure primary colors the de-bayering
algorithm can compensate to a certain extent.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

If you are interested in the LPH/V of S2/D100/D60 look at Phil's S2
review at the bottom of
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujis2pro/page19.asp

Now a 6Mp Foveon sensor capable of ISO1600 would be a wonderful
thing... but by the time that arrives, Nikon/Canon/Fuji will be
shipping 12Mp-16Mp bayer sensors.

You just HAVE to love a tech "arms" race

Personally, I'd rather be out there shooting than arguing the
merits of existing sensor tech vs. yet unreleased sensor tech. The
fact is any of the current DSLR's are capable of producing great
results - so enjoy photography!

Best Regards,

Bill

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

 

[bhenning]

Could be... more likely I mis-understood the chart - I (apparently mistakenly) believed that the "2000 lines" mark meant 2000 black lines alternating with 2000 white lines; whereas the data you just pointed me to indicates that it really meant 1000 black and 1000 white lines (i.e. 1000 line pairs).

My "prediction" was based on 2000 photosites not being able to resolve 2000 line pairs (physical impossibility)

Great site by the way Phil, my favorite digicam site.

Best Regards,

Bill

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

You mean Nyquist, you may be on a 'quest'.

A normal Bayer CFA causes a loss of resolution, a single pixel
width line will never be represented as a single pixel width line
on an image from a Bayer CFA sensor. It will on X3.

If the Foveon proponents merely pointed out that the Foveon will
have a more accurate spatial color resolution, I'd have no argument

• but arguing that a 3Mp Foveon sensor will resolve as much detail

as a 6Mp Bayer is a MUCH weaker argument.

Wrong.

A little knowledge...

--
http://whphotography.com/
http://www.cpureview.com/

 

[netrox]

I predict that you'll be a laughingstock.

Here is a solid prediction:

The SD9 will have:

Horizontal LPH
Vertical LPH

Why?

Because there is NO way around Nyquest... or, to explain it to
those readers who never heard of Nyquest... think of alternating
black & white lines. Even if they are perfectly aligned with the
photo receptors it will take one photo receptor to read "white" and
one to read "black".. so you CANNOT resolve (on a rectangular
layout) more than 1/2 the number of line pairs as you have photo
receptors on that axis.

 

[Peter G]

So you're saying that Phil and others who have been studying this
are correct with the numbers they've been using.

I think I said some pretty clear cut things.

With 1512 vertical pixels on SD9, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have greater than 1512 lines of resolution.

NOTE: The S2 pegged 1700 to 1800 absolute lines. Draw your own conclusions.

This puts this technology approxiamately equal to 6MP bayer cameras. Which is what I have been saying all along.

But that you'll take the D60 now because the Foveon tech will get
better tomorrow?

I will buy neither, because they are out of my price range. If someone where to give me a choice of one free, I would take the D60, since overall I think it will prove to be the better camera. Both sensor types will exist for years side by side. When I choose cameras, I look at a variety of data, not just the sensor type.

No problem there. It's just that as mature as the Bayer method is
today, it remains with some of the same basic problems of needing
to manufacture data no matter how it improves in these sensors, no
matter the size of the sensor.

So you think a 3MP Foveon will produce a better image than a 12MP bayer simply because the bayer "manufacturers" some of its data?

I am exagerrating to make a point. Bayer sensors are not so flawed that you 10 times the pixels to offer parity. Most indications thus far are that you need about double the amount of pixels. Which mean in the issue of detail capture 3mp x3 is in rough parity with other 6MP DSLRs. Which mean other factors like sensitivity emerge.

Peter

 

[Capital Man]

Bahaha.. yeah ok. You're wrong.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0202/02021103foveonx3preview.asp

I looked at that, and it doesn't make any sense. How can 2048 pixels show more than 2000 lines?