Pulled the trigger on a 5D Mark IV - Was it the right thing to do?

[Rick Knepper]

Keep the 5D4, sell the 5D3 and the Sony cr@p. Most everything in digital MF has a Sony sensor and better DR than the Sony FFs. The Hassleblad X1D-50c or the forthcoming Fugi GFX 50S are cherap-ish.

OK, as the title says I pulled the trigger on a brand new 5D Mark IV. Just got it home late last night but I haven't unwrapped it yet. Now I have three other cameras. For years I shot Canon exclusively and my current Canon cameras are a 5D Mark III and 1DX. Sold the 7D Mark II about 2 months ago because it wasn't getting used since I really couldn't get out and do wildlife that much. Also for sports I had the 1DX and love it. I also own a Sony A7RII which I bought instead of a Canon 5DSR.

This past weekend I was fortunate to take a two day landscape class/workshop with Mark Meunch and took just my A7RII with me because I bought it for landscape and the size and IQ was great. Now I've had this camera for a whole year but it was really the first time I pushed it and while I really like the electronic view finder (EVF) it drove me a little nuts because a) the auto detection of viewfinder/rear LCD is just so finicky and hard to count on and b) trying to manipulate the controls in the cold weather or easily change setting was just felt more difficult ,some due to the size of the controls and some due to the fact that the equivalent of the Quick menu is smaller and more sensitive and it would become difficult to not run by a setting or get to what I wanted quickly

So since then I've reconsidering should I have gotten the Sony and thought maybe I should go back to Canon and shoot with that 100%. So now you and I are asking myself but why didn't he get a 5DSR? I guess the reason for that is that I've always really like the AF capability of the the 5DIII and 1DX and thought for more general use, which is what I tend to shoot more off (people, events, walking around) I thought the upgrading to the Mark IV would be a better new purchase. Anyone who have seen my post in this forum will know I've been on the fence between the 5DSR and Mark IV for quite a while.

So the new unopened box is sitting on my desk and I'm again questioning did I do the right thing? Was the 5D Mark IV the right choice or should I have pulled the trigger on a 5DSR instead? Some how I feel I'm in analysis paralysis. The reason I didn't buy the 5DSR is that I'm still thinking of keeping the Sony for a while since I do like its small size and excellent IQ and DR but for general work the Mark IV just seems more in tune with what I want. I don't know, maybe I'm just fickled.

Of course if I sell the Sony stuff and take a bath on it I probably would go back and get a Fuji X-T2 to meet my needs for a smaller travel camera (that is what I used before I bought the Sony). If I sell the Sony I probably would also then pick up a 5DSR for the high resolution. See the Sony had that unique capability to be a small travel camera and a high resolution monster which is why I went that way last year. It apeared to fill two needs but the ergonomics is catching up with it.

Oh to answer the obligatory question, What do I shoot? I shoot everything and tailer my cameras more to the situation. A7RII for landscape, architecture, macro and some portraits. The 5D Mark III to portraits, people, general, events and landscape before I added the A7RII. The 1DX is sports, wildlife, and events.

Sorry for the long post. Any and all guidance is a huge help. I know I will not go to wrong no matter what I do but the box on my desk is reaching out to the gear head in me and "open me please". Thanks in advance

Steve W.

 

[BlueCosmo5050]

Here is what I can offer, I have owned the 5D Mark ii, 5D Mark iii, Sony A7R, then back to Canon with the 6D.

I have extensively tested the 5DSR and I have had a chance to test the 5D Mark IV a little bit, not a lot. I have some raw files from it.

I came back from Sony and have never been happier, I am not biased, these are tools, I would have stayed with Sony. I had the original A7R, the A7Rii just came out, I was looking to purchase it. However, I had many problems. Once I was able to check the A7Rii out, I knew I was going back to Canon. This was due to a few factors, the lenses, the flash system, the ergonomics mattered way more than I thought it did, especially when I got hired to do events (BTW I'm a Landscape shooter but I take other jobs for money,) I wanted the Canon look back, I had noticed it in my portfolio, there was a lot of change in the way my photos looked.

I came back to Canon, being a Landscape shooter I got the 6D this time instead of the 5D Mark iii again. I got the 24-70 2.8 ii, the first time I had version 1. Even though I only had 20 megapixels I immediately noticed I could crop down to 4 or 5 megapixels and get more detail than I was out of my Sony lenses. Now, I will say, Sony has better lenses today.

I came to look at it like this... The Sony is like a Hyundai packed full of features. But the Canon 5D is like a reliable F-150 truck, it'll still be there 12 years later.

When the 5D Mark IV came out I was waiting to see if I wanted to upgrade to that or the 5DSR. 30 Megapixels does seem pretty perfect, the AA filter is not an issue like people online act like.

I still have not yet upgraded, there are rumors that next year there will be a 5DSR Mark ii, which will be a 5D Mark IV with a high resolution sensor. That sounds appealing to me.

But, the 5D Mark IV isn't going to hold you back any. From what I understand from DXO Mark's test, Canon got better scores than the A7Rii in dynamic range in almost every ISO except base ISO.

At base ISO, it's close enough to the A7R that I don't see why anyone would care. I'm not sure if you bracket or not but I do with Landscape, so I always have the entire dynamic range anyway.

Dual Pixel AF is a HUGE feature with a touch screen. I know it's not anything amazing for most Landscappers but I really like it and it's fun to use.

30 Megapixels seems to be a sweet spot for most lenses. Keep in mind, most Sony lenses are not resolving anywhere near 42 megapixels on the A7Rii. Hence why on the A7R, 36 Megapixels, I got less detail in my crops than a lower megapixel file from the 6D. Because the lenses resolve as much as the camera almost.

I had the Sony Zeiss 16-35 F/4 I was using for Landscapes, it was only resolving 17 megapixels. Some people say these are just numbers but I seen it with my own eyes.

There was also the fact that it felt like just a piece of electronic to me. It felt like I was using a cell phone camera with a full frame sensor. LOL Maybe that's a bad analogy but it just wasn't like my Canon stuff.

The A7Rii, I was 100% sure I was going to get but then the focus system was not what they said it was. I would much rather have a 5D Mark IV with 61 points spread out across that mirror at -3EV. -4EV with dual pixel AF.

Canon's dual pixel AF is better than Sony's system and they are the mirrorless guys. I've seen it track subjects that go behind something for a long time and come out the other side and it's tracking them again. It appears to be almost flawless.

The reason I would not get the 5DSR is because of this... You lose the dual pixel AF, you lose the extra dynamic range and ISO performance, and you only gain 20 megapixels.

Now 20 megapixels might sound like a lot, but really, when you start talking 30-50 megapixels it's not as big of a difference as I think people think.

Think about your output... Website, Facebook? Well then none of those files are even gonna come out to 10 megapixels.

Big prints? I've got a HUGE print in my living room and I did it with the 5D Mark iii and the 24-70 original version, which wasn't that sharp, at least my version wasn't. People come in and think it looks stunning.

My post popular picture? 4 Megapixels. Taken with a Canon 6D 24-70 2.8 ii, cropped down to 4 Megapixels, it was an in the moment situation and there was no way to put on a longer lens fast enough.

I've printed that thing fairly large and the detail is still there.

A lot of people with the 5DSR I hear saying they shoot at the 28 MP Raw mode a lot as well.

A camera is more than a sensor, I'd think about all of these factors. I'd stay with Canon at least another generation, I do believe at some point Sony will get there, but they aren't there yet.

For old school Landscappers the Sony's can be amazing to them because they don't bracket and they want as much dynamic range as they can get. The Canon is already close, and scoring higher at some ISO's, and if you bracket, I mean even three quick shots you've got more than enough.

On portraits, it's not gonna be an issue, the color science Canon uses is stunning.

That was one of the main things I noticed in my portfolio when going from Canon to Sony and back to Canon, the Sony pictures felt dead or something. The video was really green. It took forever to deal with it.

They said it was better on the A7Rii, I graded S-Log 2 footage for a while and got tired of it.

These are all really amazing tools, however, you wanna drive a feature packed Hyundai or you want that reliable Ford F-150 with 4 wheel drive? Rain sleet or snow.

Thanks for sharing your experience. My only reluctance to sell the Sony is not due to the body itself but what I consider the very nice Zeiss Batis 18, 25, and 85 and the Loxia 21, 35, and 50. I definitely plan to sell the 16-35 f/4 since I also own the Canon 16-35 f/4L IS. Also I tried the GM 24-70 f/2.8 and sold it after month because and even on my Sony I use the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II which I simply love. My feeling is that lens and the 5D Mark IV will make an great combo just like it did on the 5D Mark III.

I guess the Sony experiment is coming to an end. I do like the EVF and IBIS but I might go back and get the new 24-105 f/4L II to give me IS from 16-400mm (own the 16-35/4L, 70-200/2.8L IS II, and 100-400/4-5.6L IS II). I also own the 35L, 50L, 95L, 135L, and the TS-E 17 and TS-E 24. So I won't loose any capability if I sell all my Sony gear.

So I think I will put both the A7RII and 5D Mark III up for sale and if I can sell them both at a good price will add the 5DSR or wait and add a 5DSRII sometime in the future.

Thanks for sharing my pain.

Steve W.

 

[Jonathan Brady]

I was more creative, took more photos, learned all types of new things when I had nothing but the A7R and a 55mm Zeiss 1.8. I only had one lens for a long time and the focusing system wasn't good. I had to be creative. I was so limited...yet I was more free.

When I used to bring equipment with me capable of capturing everything and anything, I often felt like I must capture everything and anything. Now when I bring the equipment I want to use to capture the images I want to capture, that's what I do. And I end up with far fewer images, but percentage wise, MANY more that I'm happy with. I think a lot of the people in these forums that constantly hold 1" superzoom cameras up on a pedestal are in a similar situation to my first scenario above. I've seen people state that they go out with one of those and take hundreds of images of anything and everything several times per week and I'm just sitting there thinking... "WHY!?!?!" After a year you'd have tens of thousands of images to sort through and that makes photography not so fun, IMO. Concentrating on the images (and thus the gear) that REALLY matters allows me to enjoy everything so much more.

 

[rxb dc]

The headache of deciding what equipment to use is so true.

To OP, you clearly have an extensive collection of lenses and bodies. In real life practical terms, I doubt if the 5d4 or any other camera will make a real difference to your photographs. So perhaps the real question is why do you want the new body? If you just want it, by all means, just keep it!

You don't list any lighting equipment- that might an area of exploration if you have not already done so.

 

[loitokitok]

These are all really amazing tools, however, you wanna drive a feature packed Hyundai or you want that reliable Ford F-150 with 4 wheel drive? Rain sleet or snow.

I sort of understand what you are trying to say but I don't think anyone at Canon would be very happy to have their products compared with a Ford F-150, which has got to have some of the most unsophisticated engineering of almost any vehicle on sale.

;-)

 

[Steve W]

The headache of deciding what equipment to use is so true.

To OP, you clearly have an extensive collection of lenses and bodies. In real life practical terms, I doubt if the 5d4 or any other camera will make a real difference to your photographs. So perhaps the real question is why do you want the new body? If you just want it, by all means, just keep it!

You don't list any lighting equipment- that might an area of exploration if you have not already done so.

Rxb,

Well my real modivation for getting the 5D Mark IV was the frustration I felt with the ergonomics and robustness of the A7RII. I love its Low noise, IBIS, EVF, Eye-AF and DR and the smaller, high quality primes that Zeiss makes for it. I still felt the Canon gave me better colors though. The Sony's usage was another story and don't get me started on the flash system capability. If it where not for Godox and Phottix it would be considered crippled in that area if I get to vote. Don't know about studio strobe usage as much.

Also the problem was I liked the Sony's higher resolution and its overal image sensor a lot more than my 5D Mark III. So I decieded I would consider doubling down on Canon and went back and forth on the 5D IV and the 5DSR. As a side note, the last three portrait sessions I did with both the A7RII + Zeiss Batis 85/1.8 and the 5D Mark III + 70-200/2.8L II or 135L the subject picked the 5D III based pictures as keepers 4 to 1. Got me thinking about it some. Another note, I used the same Adorama version of the Godox AD360-C with both Sony and Canon version of the trigger and that cross system capability was great.

In the end I decided the improved noise, AF, dynamic range and overal flexibility of the 5D Mark IV was a better choice for my shooting variety than getting the 5DSR. Also I've decided to sell the 5D III to help pay for it and keep the A7RII for a little while but will use it only for Landscape and Architecture. For portraits and events the 5DIV will become my mainstay. Although the the Batis 85 with IS and the A7RII with IBIS was nice to shoot portraits with. The sharpest eyes I'm able to get due to the limitation of my shooting skills with the 135L and 85L II. Maybe with the 5DIV that will change.

As far as lighting goes I do own some. I own ST-E3-RT + 3 x 600EX-RT, a 400EX-II with a YN-E3-RX along the Godox AD360-C, CL-180 bare bulb flashes, some lightstands, umbrellas, a softbox, beauty dish, and a octobox. For the Sony I own their HVL-F43M on camera flash and Godox TT685-S. I adapt the AD360-C to the Canon RT system with a Phottix Laso receiver or use it with the Godox X1T-C ad X1T-S that I own. Bought the 600EX-RT for wedding but may think about selling two of them and trying a Godox AD600II but we'll see.

But to finally come clean. Yes I am also a gear head. Come by it naturally as an electrical engineer that has designed a camera sensor system once, a lot of signal processing solutions and some image/graphic processors. Last 10 years I whav been working more on cell phone electronics but image processing is my favor area of interest.

Steve W

 

[Mike CH]

And now its full of holes and all in pieces?

No, that is not the right thing to do, at all.

Oh, wait - you mean you bought a camera?

Regards, Mike

 

[rxb dc]

The headache of deciding what equipment to use is so true.

To OP, you clearly have an extensive collection of lenses and bodies. In real life practical terms, I doubt if the 5d4 or any other camera will make a real difference to your photographs. So perhaps the real question is why do you want the new body? If you just want it, by all means, just keep it!

You don't list any lighting equipment- that might an area of exploration if you have not already done so.

Rxb,

Well my real modivation for getting the 5D Mark IV was the frustration I felt with the ergonomics and robustness of the A7RII.

That is definitely very important. I remember my old cars with the rotary controls for HVAC and radio - I had muscle memory of all the controls and did not have to look down to change a setting. Newer cars have fancier buttons but even after many years, just do not have the same muscle memory.

Of course, that is not the sole reason to go with one system or other but in fast moving situations, I suspect that make the difference between getting a shot or not.

...As far as lighting goes I do own some. I own ST-E3-RT + 3 x 600EX-RT, a 400EX-II with a YN-E3-RX along the Godox AD360-C, CL-180 bare bulb flashes, some lightstands, umbrellas, a softbox, beauty dish, and a octobox. For the Sony I own their HVL-F43M on camera flash and Godox TT685-S. I adapt the AD360-C to the Canon RT system with a Phottix Laso receiver or use it with the Godox X1T-C ad X1T-S that I own. Bought the 600EX-RT for wedding but may think about selling two of them and trying a Godox AD600II but we'll see.

Looks like you are all set. I would think twice about getting rid of the flashes. Given how portable they are, you are more likely to carry them.

But to finally come clean. Yes I am also a gear head.

Come by it naturally as an electrical engineer that has designed a camera sensor system once, a lot of signal processing solutions and some image/graphic processors. Last 10 years I whav been working more on cell phone electronics but image processing is my favor area of interest.

Steve W

 

[Deardorff]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

 

[Steve W]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

Well I understand your position but cameras are a passion. I also collect them as well. As a matter of fact just picked up a classic, mint, Nikon FM2, just yesterday at the local camera shop. I have about half dozen classic film cameras I've collected over the last 7 years. Some I wanted to own when they were new and shiny and some I just wanted to experience.

For day to day use I had been using just the A7RII the most with my 5D Mark III for events or when flash was a must have for the last year. The 1DX is also used quite a bit but mostly for the dozen sporting events I do each year. I tried downsizing it to an a 7D Mark II but in the end decided since I had purchased the 1DX three years earlier I would keep it because it really is a better camera.

So while three cameras may seem a lot to you for me I can live with it if they offer enough difference in capability. After all if you think a 1DX and a A7RII are interchangeable or a backup for each other your obviously have never used either. I don't prescribe to using a hammer where a screw driver is a better fit.

Have fun and thanks for judging me.

Steve W

 

[stratobill]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

Well I understand your position but cameras are a passion. I also collect them as well. As a matter of fact just picked up a classic, mint, Nikon FM2, just yesterday at the local camera shop. I have about half dozen classic film cameras I've collected over the last 7 years. Some I wanted to own when they were new and shiny and some I just wanted to experience.

For day to day use I had been using just the A7RII the most with my 5D Mark III for events or when flash was a must have for the last year. The 1DX is also used quite a bit but mostly for the dozen sporting events I do each year. I tried downsizing it to an a 7D Mark II but in the end decided since I had purchased the 1DX three years earlier I would keep it because it really is a better camera.

So while three cameras may seem a lot to you for me I can live with it if they offer enough difference in capability. After all if you think a 1DX and a A7RII are interchangeable or a backup for each other your obviously have never used either. I don't prescribe to using a hammer where a screw driver is a better fit.

Have fun and thanks for judging me.

Steve W

 

[David Franklin]

In a word, yes. It was. I have had many others, apparently a few more than have you, and, although I am not totally blown away as though by some advanced alien technology, everything is better. That's more than good enough for me, as I was able to do more than satisfactory work with my 5D3's before. Enjoy it.

Regards,

David

 

[Steve W]

In a word, yes. It was. I have had many others, apparently a few more than have you, and, although I am not totally blown away as though by some advanced alien technology, everything is better. That's more than good enough for me, as I was able to do more than satisfactory work with my 5D3's before. Enjoy it.

Regards,

David

David,

Thanks. I have now taken the camera out of the box but left everything in the box wrapped up like new. I have pleanty of batteries and two chargers so I din't want to disturb that stuff yet.

I have configured most of it so far and taken a 1/2 dozen shots. It feels really good to hold and in so many ways its really familiar. Also I am amazed how quick the touch screen make it to setup and configure and move from mode to mode.

The 30 Mpixels does hit the sweet spot for so many cases so I think I made the right decision vs the 5DSR.

Also, my Kirk Arca-swiss plate for the 5DIII fits it just fine IMHO so that will work until I get my grip and L-plate for it although the built in grip is different enough from the 5DIII to make it easier to hold withoutthe additional battery grip.

Steve W.

 

[Walter]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

Well I understand your position but cameras are a passion. I also collect them as well. As a matter of fact just picked up a classic, mint, Nikon FM2, just yesterday at the local camera shop. I have about half dozen classic film cameras I've collected over the last 7 years. Some I wanted to own when they were new and shiny and some I just wanted to experience.

For day to day use I had been using just the A7RII the most with my 5D Mark III for events or when flash was a must have for the last year. The 1DX is also used quite a bit but mostly for the dozen sporting events I do each year. I tried downsizing it to an a 7D Mark II but in the end decided since I had purchased the 1DX three years earlier I would keep it because it really is a better camera.

So while three cameras may seem a lot to you for me I can live with it if they offer enough difference in capability. After all if you think a 1DX and a A7RII are interchangeable or a backup for each other your obviously have never used either. I don't prescribe to using a hammer where a screw driver is a better fit.

Have fun and thanks for judging me.

Steve W

 

[Rick Knepper]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

One has nothing to do with the other un less you are using one as an excuse for the other.

There are many good reasons to own multi[le bodies and brands. Until a single manufacturer builds a camera where for each shot one can dial in their desired resolution, DR, color appearance, fps, buffer size, number of AF points, etc. and comes up with a universal lens mount, and one does not want to be limited, then it you pretty much need multiple bodies & brands.

If you are a guy that is comfortable with what your camera gives you, then you are blessed in a way.

Besides, operating a camera proficiently isn't rocket science (Nikon notwithstanding - admittedly owning multiple brands is easier without Nikon in the mix). It is the situation that can be challenging.

 

[Steve W]

You are on a camera equipment safari which may well end one day. I understand how easy it is to go on these especially if you have lots of or enough money. It really doesn't matter what you keep or sell because you can always buy something new and frankly you are not buying to get the best possible camera ...you already have those. Rick makes an interesting challenge in trying something different in medium format... As for what to keep that is easy... If every time you pick up a camera you feel you love it and it gives you pleasure and you make good pictures with it...keep it. If not and you are thinking about the fiddly bits etc...move it on. In a sense you have moved on even before you have unboxed the 5D MK4 ...safaris are like that and sadly there is no satisfaction in retail therapy...believe me I know.

Walter,

That is an interesting metaphor and it makes a lot of sense although sometimes is feels more like the quest for the holy grail.

I definately think my days with the A7RII are numbered. Last night I decided to take it to just a family event with two lenses and a flash. Lets say the experience just wasn't pleasing. At the beginning of this thread I took some advice and tried changing the setup to prevent the viewfinder and rear lcd from arbitrarily switching back and forth due to its oversensitivity and tied the switch to a configurable button. Initially I thought that would work pretty well. Well while makes the camera more predictable it was some what of a pain to use in that mode. I may get used to it but right now it definately seemed funny.

What made it worse was the way the camaera and TTL flash interacted. Just seemed to be this undescribable delay that made me very uncertain if I got the shot I was after. Its almost as if there was some extra delay that the TTL flash caused. Normally I don't use TTL when I have time to set up. I set my camera manually and my flash manually and hadn't noticed it before. Also did for the first time notice Sony's approach to stopping down the lens during focus slowed down the camera AF as well. This was a very different experience than when I use my 5D Mark III and Canon speedlights which I would have normally used for an event, family or professionaly.

In some way its too bad since Zeiss has made a serious commitment to Sony's FE cameras and I love their approach to keeping the lenses smaller.

All that said the journey with the Sony looks like its coming to an end. Between these things and the really smooth feel and shooting experience of my new 5D Mark IV I'm just more comfortable feeling I will get the shot I want with the Canon.

Thanks to all the amatuer shrinks trying to analyse my need to try and experiment with different gear. You can move on and find a forum on a website about boats, cars, guitars, and stereo equipment.

Steve W

 

[Steve W]

WHY do you think you need so many different camera bodies?

Pick one or two and get used to them, how they handle and I bet your images will improve and your confidence in your gear and ability will at the same time.

Familiarity with what is in your hands will do more to help you get better results than any new gear will.

One has nothing to do with the other un less you are using one as an excuse for the other.

There are many good reasons to own multi[le bodies and brands. Until a single manufacturer builds a camera where for each shot one can dial in their desired resolution, DR, color appearance, fps, buffer size, number of AF points, etc. and comes up with a universal lens mount, and one does not want to be limited, then it you pretty much need multiple bodies & brands.

If you are a guy that is comfortable with what your camera gives you, then you are blessed in a way.

Besides, operating a camera proficiently isn't rocket science (Nikon notwithstanding - admittedly owning multiple brands is easier without Nikon in the mix). It is the situation that can be challenging.

Rick,

+100. :-D

Steve W

--

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe! - Words to live by. Albert Einstein