Pulled the trigger on a 5D Mark IV - Was it the right thing to do?

[Steve W]

OK, as the title says I pulled the trigger on a brand new 5D Mark IV. Just got it home late last night but I haven't unwrapped it yet. Now I have three other cameras. For years I shot Canon exclusively and my current Canon cameras are a 5D Mark III and 1DX. Sold the 7D Mark II about 2 months ago because it wasn't getting used since I really couldn't get out and do wildlife that much. Also for sports I had the 1DX and love it. I also own a Sony A7RII which I bought instead of a Canon 5DSR.

This past weekend I was fortunate to take a two day landscape class/workshop with Mark Meunch and took just my A7RII with me because I bought it for landscape and the size and IQ was great. Now I've had this camera for a whole year but it was really the first time I pushed it and while I really like the electronic view finder (EVF) it drove me a little nuts because a) the auto detection of viewfinder/rear LCD is just so finicky and hard to count on and b) trying to manipulate the controls in the cold weather or easily change setting was just felt more difficult ,some due to the size of the controls and some due to the fact that the equivalent of the Quick menu is smaller and more sensitive and it would become difficult to not run by a setting or get to what I wanted quickly

So since then I've reconsidering should I have gotten the Sony and thought maybe I should go back to Canon and shoot with that 100%. So now you and I are asking myself but why didn't he get a 5DSR? I guess the reason for that is that I've always really like the AF capability of the the 5DIII and 1DX and thought for more general use, which is what I tend to shoot more off (people, events, walking around) I thought the upgrading to the Mark IV would be a better new purchase. Anyone who have seen my post in this forum will know I've been on the fence between the 5DSR and Mark IV for quite a while.

So the new unopened box is sitting on my desk and I'm again questioning did I do the right thing? Was the 5D Mark IV the right choice or should I have pulled the trigger on a 5DSR instead? Some how I feel I'm in analysis paralysis. The reason I didn't buy the 5DSR is that I'm still thinking of keeping the Sony for a while since I do like its small size and excellent IQ and DR but for general work the Mark IV just seems more in tune with what I want. I don't know, maybe I'm just fickled.

Of course if I sell the Sony stuff and take a bath on it I probably would go back and get a Fuji X-T2 to meet my needs for a smaller travel camera (that is what I used before I bought the Sony). If I sell the Sony I probably would also then pick up a 5DSR for the high resolution. See the Sony had that unique capability to be a small travel camera and a high resolution monster which is why I went that way last year. It apeared to fill two needs but the ergonomics is catching up with it.

Oh to answer the obligatory question, What do I shoot? I shoot everything and tailer my cameras more to the situation. A7RII for landscape, architecture, macro and some portraits. The 5D Mark III to portraits, people, general, events and landscape before I added the A7RII. The 1DX is sports, wildlife, and events.

Sorry for the long post. Any and all guidance is a huge help. I know I will not go to wrong no matter what I do but the box on my desk is reaching out to the gear head in me and "open me please". Thanks in advance

Steve W.

 

[BlueCosmo5050]

Here is what I can offer, I have owned the 5D Mark ii, 5D Mark iii, Sony A7R, then back to Canon with the 6D.

I have extensively tested the 5DSR and I have had a chance to test the 5D Mark IV a little bit, not a lot. I have some raw files from it.

I came back from Sony and have never been happier, I am not biased, these are tools, I would have stayed with Sony. I had the original A7R, the A7Rii just came out, I was looking to purchase it. However, I had many problems. Once I was able to check the A7Rii out, I knew I was going back to Canon. This was due to a few factors, the lenses, the flash system, the ergonomics mattered way more than I thought it did, especially when I got hired to do events (BTW I'm a Landscape shooter but I take other jobs for money,) I wanted the Canon look back, I had noticed it in my portfolio, there was a lot of change in the way my photos looked.

I came back to Canon, being a Landscape shooter I got the 6D this time instead of the 5D Mark iii again. I got the 24-70 2.8 ii, the first time I had version 1. Even though I only had 20 megapixels I immediately noticed I could crop down to 4 or 5 megapixels and get more detail than I was out of my Sony lenses. Now, I will say, Sony has better lenses today.

I came to look at it like this... The Sony is like a Hyundai packed full of features. But the Canon 5D is like a reliable F-150 truck, it'll still be there 12 years later.

When the 5D Mark IV came out I was waiting to see if I wanted to upgrade to that or the 5DSR. 30 Megapixels does seem pretty perfect, the AA filter is not an issue like people online act like.

I still have not yet upgraded, there are rumors that next year there will be a 5DSR Mark ii, which will be a 5D Mark IV with a high resolution sensor. That sounds appealing to me.

But, the 5D Mark IV isn't going to hold you back any. From what I understand from DXO Mark's test, Canon got better scores than the A7Rii in dynamic range in almost every ISO except base ISO.

At base ISO, it's close enough to the A7R that I don't see why anyone would care. I'm not sure if you bracket or not but I do with Landscape, so I always have the entire dynamic range anyway.

Dual Pixel AF is a HUGE feature with a touch screen. I know it's not anything amazing for most Landscappers but I really like it and it's fun to use.

30 Megapixels seems to be a sweet spot for most lenses. Keep in mind, most Sony lenses are not resolving anywhere near 42 megapixels on the A7Rii. Hence why on the A7R, 36 Megapixels, I got less detail in my crops than a lower megapixel file from the 6D. Because the lenses resolve as much as the camera almost.

I had the Sony Zeiss 16-35 F/4 I was using for Landscapes, it was only resolving 17 megapixels. Some people say these are just numbers but I seen it with my own eyes.

There was also the fact that it felt like just a piece of electronic to me. It felt like I was using a cell phone camera with a full frame sensor. LOL Maybe that's a bad analogy but it just wasn't like my Canon stuff.

The A7Rii, I was 100% sure I was going to get but then the focus system was not what they said it was. I would much rather have a 5D Mark IV with 61 points spread out across that mirror at -3EV. -4EV with dual pixel AF.

Canon's dual pixel AF is better than Sony's system and they are the mirrorless guys. I've seen it track subjects that go behind something for a long time and come out the other side and it's tracking them again. It appears to be almost flawless.

The reason I would not get the 5DSR is because of this... You lose the dual pixel AF, you lose the extra dynamic range and ISO performance, and you only gain 20 megapixels.

Now 20 megapixels might sound like a lot, but really, when you start talking 30-50 megapixels it's not as big of a difference as I think people think.

Think about your output... Website, Facebook? Well then none of those files are even gonna come out to 10 megapixels.

Big prints? I've got a HUGE print in my living room and I did it with the 5D Mark iii and the 24-70 original version, which wasn't that sharp, at least my version wasn't. People come in and think it looks stunning.

My post popular picture? 4 Megapixels. Taken with a Canon 6D 24-70 2.8 ii, cropped down to 4 Megapixels, it was an in the moment situation and there was no way to put on a longer lens fast enough.

I've printed that thing fairly large and the detail is still there.

A lot of people with the 5DSR I hear saying they shoot at the 28 MP Raw mode a lot as well.

A camera is more than a sensor, I'd think about all of these factors. I'd stay with Canon at least another generation, I do believe at some point Sony will get there, but they aren't there yet.

For old school Landscappers the Sony's can be amazing to them because they don't bracket and they want as much dynamic range as they can get. The Canon is already close, and scoring higher at some ISO's, and if you bracket, I mean even three quick shots you've got more than enough.

On portraits, it's not gonna be an issue, the color science Canon uses is stunning.

That was one of the main things I noticed in my portfolio when going from Canon to Sony and back to Canon, the Sony pictures felt dead or something. The video was really green. It took forever to deal with it.

They said it was better on the A7Rii, I graded S-Log 2 footage for a while and got tired of it.

These are all really amazing tools, however, you wanna drive a feature packed Hyundai or you want that reliable Ford F-150 with 4 wheel drive? Rain sleet or snow.

 

[Jonathan Brady]

Sell the A7R II and 5D Mark III, keep the 5D Mark IV and 1DX. The 5D Mark IV can replace both the 5D Mark III and A7R II. If you feel the need for a small mirrorless camera, you can either go back to Fuji or if you want to stay within the Canon ecosystem (which there are reasons to do so), the announced and soon to be released EOS M5 would be a great choice unless the specific lenses Fuji offers appeal to you. Using the rear screen as a focus point touchpad on the M5 looks MIGHTY intriguing to me and because it has the 80D's sensor, you're not giving up much in the DR department (not enough to be significant, IMO).

I'm probably going to be buying the M5 for my wife as she wants easy, small, and a huge focal range in one lens (18-150 lens from EF-M line). The gearhead in me wants a Fuji system for the awesome primes, but it's not about me, it's about her.

 

[Steve W]

Here is what I can offer, I have owned the 5D Mark ii, 5D Mark iii, Sony A7R, then back to Canon with the 6D.

I have extensively tested the 5DSR and I have had a chance to test the 5D Mark IV a little bit, not a lot. I have some raw files from it.

I came back from Sony and have never been happier, I am not biased, these are tools, I would have stayed with Sony. I had the original A7R, the A7Rii just came out, I was looking to purchase it. However, I had many problems. Once I was able to check the A7Rii out, I knew I was going back to Canon. This was due to a few factors, the lenses, the flash system, the ergonomics mattered way more than I thought it did, especially when I got hired to do events (BTW I'm a Landscape shooter but I take other jobs for money,) I wanted the Canon look back, I had noticed it in my portfolio, there was a lot of change in the way my photos looked.

I came back to Canon, being a Landscape shooter I got the 6D this time instead of the 5D Mark iii again. I got the 24-70 2.8 ii, the first time I had version 1. Even though I only had 20 megapixels I immediately noticed I could crop down to 4 or 5 megapixels and get more detail than I was out of my Sony lenses. Now, I will say, Sony has better lenses today.

I came to look at it like this... The Sony is like a Hyundai packed full of features. But the Canon 5D is like a reliable F-150 truck, it'll still be there 12 years later.

When the 5D Mark IV came out I was waiting to see if I wanted to upgrade to that or the 5DSR. 30 Megapixels does seem pretty perfect, the AA filter is not an issue like people online act like.

I still have not yet upgraded, there are rumors that next year there will be a 5DSR Mark ii, which will be a 5D Mark IV with a high resolution sensor. That sounds appealing to me.

But, the 5D Mark IV isn't going to hold you back any. From what I understand from DXO Mark's test, Canon got better scores than the A7Rii in dynamic range in almost every ISO except base ISO.

At base ISO, it's close enough to the A7R that I don't see why anyone would care. I'm not sure if you bracket or not but I do with Landscape, so I always have the entire dynamic range anyway.

Dual Pixel AF is a HUGE feature with a touch screen. I know it's not anything amazing for most Landscappers but I really like it and it's fun to use.

30 Megapixels seems to be a sweet spot for most lenses. Keep in mind, most Sony lenses are not resolving anywhere near 42 megapixels on the A7Rii. Hence why on the A7R, 36 Megapixels, I got less detail in my crops than a lower megapixel file from the 6D. Because the lenses resolve as much as the camera almost.

I had the Sony Zeiss 16-35 F/4 I was using for Landscapes, it was only resolving 17 megapixels. Some people say these are just numbers but I seen it with my own eyes.

There was also the fact that it felt like just a piece of electronic to me. It felt like I was using a cell phone camera with a full frame sensor. LOL Maybe that's a bad analogy but it just wasn't like my Canon stuff.

The A7Rii, I was 100% sure I was going to get but then the focus system was not what they said it was. I would much rather have a 5D Mark IV with 61 points spread out across that mirror at -3EV. -4EV with dual pixel AF.

Canon's dual pixel AF is better than Sony's system and they are the mirrorless guys. I've seen it track subjects that go behind something for a long time and come out the other side and it's tracking them again. It appears to be almost flawless.

The reason I would not get the 5DSR is because of this... You lose the dual pixel AF, you lose the extra dynamic range and ISO performance, and you only gain 20 megapixels.

Now 20 megapixels might sound like a lot, but really, when you start talking 30-50 megapixels it's not as big of a difference as I think people think.

Think about your output... Website, Facebook? Well then none of those files are even gonna come out to 10 megapixels.

Big prints? I've got a HUGE print in my living room and I did it with the 5D Mark iii and the 24-70 original version, which wasn't that sharp, at least my version wasn't. People come in and think it looks stunning.

My post popular picture? 4 Megapixels. Taken with a Canon 6D 24-70 2.8 ii, cropped down to 4 Megapixels, it was an in the moment situation and there was no way to put on a longer lens fast enough.

I've printed that thing fairly large and the detail is still there.

A lot of people with the 5DSR I hear saying they shoot at the 28 MP Raw mode a lot as well.

A camera is more than a sensor, I'd think about all of these factors. I'd stay with Canon at least another generation, I do believe at some point Sony will get there, but they aren't there yet.

For old school Landscappers the Sony's can be amazing to them because they don't bracket and they want as much dynamic range as they can get. The Canon is already close, and scoring higher at some ISO's, and if you bracket, I mean even three quick shots you've got more than enough.

On portraits, it's not gonna be an issue, the color science Canon uses is stunning.

That was one of the main things I noticed in my portfolio when going from Canon to Sony and back to Canon, the Sony pictures felt dead or something. The video was really green. It took forever to deal with it.

They said it was better on the A7Rii, I graded S-Log 2 footage for a while and got tired of it.

These are all really amazing tools, however, you wanna drive a feature packed Hyundai or you want that reliable Ford F-150 with 4 wheel drive? Rain sleet or snow.

Thanks for sharing your experience. My only reluctance to sell the Sony is not due to the body itself but what I consider the very nice Zeiss Batis 18, 25, and 85 and the Loxia 21, 35, and 50. I definitely plan to sell the 16-35 f/4 since I also own the Canon 16-35 f/4L IS. Also I tried the GM 24-70 f/2.8 and sold it after month because and even on my Sony I use the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II which I simply love. My feeling is that lens and the 5D Mark IV will make an great combo just like it did on the 5D Mark III.

I guess the Sony experiment is coming to an end. I do like the EVF and IBIS but I might go back and get the new 24-105 f/4L II to give me IS from 16-400mm (own the 16-35/4L, 70-200/2.8L IS II, and 100-400/4-5.6L IS II). I also own the 35L, 50L, 95L, 135L, and the TS-E 17 and TS-E 24. So I won't loose any capability if I sell all my Sony gear.

So I think I will put both the A7RII and 5D Mark III up for sale and if I can sell them both at a good price will add the 5DSR or wait and add a 5DSRII sometime in the future.

Thanks for sharing my pain.

Steve W.

 

[Steve W]

Sell the A7R II and 5D Mark III, keep the 5D Mark IV and 1DX. The 5D Mark IV can replace both the 5D Mark III and A7R II. If you feel the need for a small mirrorless camera, you can either go back to Fuji or if you want to stay within the Canon ecosystem (which there are reasons to do so), the announced and soon to be released EOS M5 would be a great choice unless the specific lenses Fuji offers appeal to you. Using the rear screen as a focus point touchpad on the M5 looks MIGHTY intriguing to me and because it has the 80D's sensor, you're not giving up much in the DR department (not enough to be significant, IMO).

I'm probably going to be buying the M5 for my wife as she wants easy, small, and a huge focal range in one lens (18-150 lens from EF-M line). The gearhead in me wants a Fuji system for the awesome primes, but it's not about me, it's about her.

Sounds like a good idea. Should never have sold my Fuji X-T1. It was a very good travel camera and the X-T2 looks even better and a better match to work with the Canons. I gave up the Fuji reluctantly when I bought a Sony feeling owning three lens systems was way to much. I loved their 14mm, 23mm, and 56mm primes

I looked at the M5 and its really doesn't do anything for me. Maybe once I start using my new 5D Mark IV the touch with the DPAF might draw me in but I'm not sure yet how much I will use it.

Thanks for your input.

Steve W

 

[Jrnichols5]

Now I've had this camera for a whole year but it was really the first time I pushed it and while I really like the electronic view finder (EVF) it drove me a little nuts because a) the auto detection of viewfinder/rear LCD is just so finicky and hard to count on...

Your first gripe about the EVF is an all too familiar issue with the A7RII. You aren't the only one to hate the auto detect feature on the EVF. As a workaround, I've since set the trash button as a custom function to toggle between the LCD and the EVF. That way I can switch back and forth as needed, instead of it doing it seemingly out of nowhere. I'd give that a try and see how it works for you.

 

[Jonathan Brady]

Sell the A7R II and 5D Mark III, keep the 5D Mark IV and 1DX. The 5D Mark IV can replace both the 5D Mark III and A7R II. If you feel the need for a small mirrorless camera, you can either go back to Fuji or if you want to stay within the Canon ecosystem (which there are reasons to do so), the announced and soon to be released EOS M5 would be a great choice unless the specific lenses Fuji offers appeal to you. Using the rear screen as a focus point touchpad on the M5 looks MIGHTY intriguing to me and because it has the 80D's sensor, you're not giving up much in the DR department (not enough to be significant, IMO).

I'm probably going to be buying the M5 for my wife as she wants easy, small, and a huge focal range in one lens (18-150 lens from EF-M line). The gearhead in me wants a Fuji system for the awesome primes, but it's not about me, it's about her.

Sounds like a good idea. Should never have sold my Fuji X-T1. It was a very good travel camera and the X-T2 looks even better and a better match to work with the Canons. I gave up the Fuji reluctantly when I bought a Sony feeling owning three lens systems was way to much. I loved their 14mm, 23mm, and 56mm primes

I looked at the M5 and its really doesn't do anything for me. Maybe once I start using my new 5D Mark IV the touch with the DPAF might draw me in but I'm not sure yet how much I will use it.

Thanks for your input.

Steve W

 

[Steve W]

Now I've had this camera for a whole year but it was really the first time I pushed it and while I really like the electronic view finder (EVF) it drove me a little nuts because a) the auto detection of viewfinder/rear LCD is just so finicky and hard to count on...

Your first gripe about the EVF is an all too familiar issue with the A7RII. You aren't the only one to hate the auto detect feature on the EVF. As a workaround, I've since set the trash button as a custom function to toggle between the LCD and the EVF. That way I can switch back and forth as needed, instead of it doing it seemingly out of nowhere. I'd give that a try and see how it works for you.

Thanks, I will try that. For now I will probably use the 5D Mark IV and A7RII if I can tolerate its issues. The problem you mention is the one that drives me the most nuts.

Getting the 5D Mark III ready for resale. Need to decide if I sell the GPS unit, grip, and L-bracket for it to offset my 5D Mark IV expenses (ordered the grip) or keep them for a future 5DSR.

Steve W

 

[DotCom Editor]

It's likely that I'll purchase a 5D4 to replace my aging, but perfectly functioning 5D2. But, I won't even consider doing so until after the first price cut and first major firmware update both occur. Canon also has a nasty habit of doing product recalls. I'm waiting until it all shakes out. No rush here.

 

[Jrnichols5]

It's likely that I'll purchase a 5D4 to replace my aging, but perfectly functioning 5D2. But, I won't even consider doing so until after the first price cut and first major firmware update both occur. Canon also has a nasty habit of doing product recalls. I'm waiting until it all shakes out. No rush here.

If the 5D Mark III is any indication, you won't have to wait long for some serious discounts on this camera.

http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-Frame-Full-HD-Digital-Camera/product/B007FGYZFI

 

[Kmccarthy]

Unless you are a professional and need a backup, I would sell all your other cameras and keep the 5D Mark IV. The more cameras you have the more you are going to agonize over the minute differences between them.

The 5D Mark IV is probably the best all around camera on the market right now, particularly if you consider the full range of canon lenses available.

 

[Steve W]

Funny conclusion since that plot shows the last 6 months of the 5D III and not the previous 4 years. The camera came to market in Feb/Mar of 2012.

Steve W

 

[Steve W]

Unless you are a professional and need a backup, I would sell all your other cameras and keep the 5D Mark IV. The more cameras you have the more you are going to agonize over the minute differences between them.

The 5D Mark IV is probably the best all around camera on the market right now, particularly if you consider the full range of canon lenses available.

I agree which is what caused me to pull the trigger. The 5D Mark IV is not the best at any one thing but it is such a nice well rounded package. Since I am not into video (may want to be again) their approach to 4K was not a deterant. To me the ergonomics and my Canon glass keep me in their camp even though I would like something smaller sometimes.

I've been setting up (fondling) the camera today and it just feels so comfortable.

Maybe to keep it small I will forgo the battery grip for the first time. The local brick and morter camera store I picked it up didn't have one in stock. Also I was in MA for the day and they had it in NH, a zero sales tax state, on my ride home to Maine.

Steve W

 

[boldcolors]

For what it's worth, I've used all cameras you've mentioned and I've just pulled the trigger myself.

The 5D4 is by far the best one yet. The files coming out from that sensor are truly spectacular. And the colors are insane. Much much better than 5D3.

I'm impressed that you still have an unopened box sitting on your desk

 

[DotCom Editor]

Funny conclusion since that plot shows the last 6 months of the 5D III and not the previous 4 years. The camera came to market in Feb/Mar of 2012.

With the slider on "all," the leftmost part of the plot is labeled March 2, 2012. The "2012" is tiny, but it's there. I had not ever seen a price plot of this type before.

 

[Avifors]

But, the 5D Mark IV isn't going to hold you back any. From what I understand from DXO Mark's test, Canon got better scores than the A7Rii in dynamic range in almost every ISO except base ISO.

I'm not sure about that... (unless I'm reading that chart wrong)

Loading…

www.dxomark.com

 

[Mako2011]

But, the 5D Mark IV isn't going to hold you back any. From what I understand from DXO Mark's test, Canon got better scores than the A7Rii in dynamic range in almost every ISO except base ISO.

I'm not sure about that... (unless I'm reading that chart wrong)

You are correct, the A7RIi does score better, in terms of DR, at all ISO's. That said, at these levels, the real practical difference is zero.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Com...EOS-5D-Mark-IV-versus-Sony-A7R-II___1106_1035

 

[Jeff2013]

These can be tough decisions to make. I shoot two 5DSR's and two A7RII's (mostly with Canon lenses). I really like both systems.

I shoot a lot of off-camera flash/strobes, along with events, and the 5DSR's excel for that, along with nature photography (the image detail is amazing for wildlife shooting). With the A7RII's and IBIS I can shoot one of my f1.4 Sigma ART lenses at ISO100/200 hand-held in dark buildings and come out with stunning, noise free, shots. For street and travel photography, these cameras cannot be beat. I also find the A7RII, with the stunning GM85mm and Eye Focus, is fantastic for ambient light portraits.

The rub, here, is that I find the A7RII to be a specialty camera, whereas, the 5DXX cameras are all-rounders. The lens selection and available accessories is also a lot more robust.

The 5D4 is compelling. I wish they had not incorporated the blur filter on the sensor. Still, I am leaning towards selling one of my A7RII's and obtaining one. It is, no doubt, a great camera.

 

[stratobill]

If it were me I would simplify my setup a lot and focus on the gear that really matters for your photography.

I would probably sell all of the Sony gear, since you have an issue with the way it handles, keep the 5DIII, and get the 5DSR.

I would think long and hard about whether the 1DX brings so much more to the party- I would never want a camera that's that big, but that's just me.

I would look over the entire lens selection and prune out whatever I hadn't used in 6 months. I know it's hard- I just did this with my guitar and amp collection!

Fewer tools would allow you to focus and really get the most out of what you have.

I'm assuming you are not a pro and don't have a pro reason to keep all this gear, and that it's really mostly about liking to have gear.

And I would, like another poster, add an M5, for compact use, and the bonus of being able to use all of your Canon gear seamlessly.

Just my 2 cents, YMMV etc.

 

[Oilman]

[No message]