Post processing products and techniques - Part 10 (JPEG and raw)

. . . . You processed RAW files from scratch, I think, not from OOC JPEGs.
That's right.

I've turned off raw+JPEG now for all my cameras except the TZ60 so I didn't have OOC JPEGs for these. So I have no idea if my versions were better or worse than the OOC JPEGs. It might be a good idea to shoot raw+JPEG so you have the option of starting with either.
Thanks, yes, definitely. Now that I've finished picnicking in Oxford I may get the chance to shoot one or two new RAW+JPEGs. I am bored with my church interior. I used the ZS7/TZ10 in Greece so RAW was not an option. Well, that's my excuse anyway.:-)

Mike
 
. . . . . I am bored with my church interior. I used the ZS7/TZ10 in Greece so RAW was not an option. Well, that's my excuse anyway.:-) . . . .
No, I ought to tackle the church interior again, not run away from it . . . . it's mostly on your first video.

Mike
 
. . . . . Here are versions in the 1300 pixel high format that I usually prepare for viewing on screen. . . . .
Interesting that with the small sensor (or is it any sensor, with the screen being the limiting factor?), onscreen viewing at higher that 1300 pixels high ( I have been arbitrarily using 1500 PX high, 50%) does not help as things get worse. That is only 2.25 MP and 3 MP respectively.

Makes me wonder why I am usually shooting at 12 MP, but it's all about big prints I guess.

Maybe I should take the FZ200's onboard advice and shoot at max 8 MP which prints up to A3, but for a lot of casual stuff shoot at 5 MP or even 3 MP, the latter giving me optimum onscreen viewing anyway, without reducing.

And the same for RAW+JPEG?

Your 1300 pixels high is always a reduction from shooting at max 12 MP Fine, I guess? How did you pick 1300? Just the look of it, I guess?

Mike
 
. . . . . Here are versions in the 1300 pixel high format that I usually prepare for viewing on screen. . . . .
Interesting that with the small sensor (or is it any sensor, with the screen being the limiting factor?), onscreen viewing at higher that 1300 pixels high ( I have been arbitrarily using 1500 PX high, 50%) does not help as things get worse. That is only 2.25 MP and 3 MP respectively.

Makes me wonder why I am usually shooting at 12 MP, but it's all about big prints I guess.

Maybe I should take the FZ200's onboard advice and shoot at max 8 MP which prints up to A3, but for a lot of casual stuff shoot at 5 MP or even 3 MP, the latter giving me optimum onscreen viewing anyway, without reducing.

And the same for RAW+JPEG?
I really wouldn't do that. With RAW on the FZ200 you (almost) always shoot at full resolution anyway (the exception being if you have iZoom on and go beyond 24X zoom), but when I was shooting JPEG I would always shoot full resolution. Some post processing operations depend not just on individual pixels but on the pixels around them. I wouldn't throw away any information until you absolutely have to, which as far as resolution is concerned is the final resizing to the target viewing size.
Your 1300 pixels high is always a reduction from shooting at max 12 MP Fine, I guess? How did you pick 1300? Just the look of it, I guess?
It fits nicely on to my 1440 pixel high screen. That way I can look at them quite large but without any resizing confusing the issue and degrading the image. Selfish of course, but you have to choose some size or other.
 
I really wouldn't do that. With RAW on the FZ200 you (almost) always shoot at full resolution anyway (the exception being if you have iZoom on and go beyond 24X zoom),
Got it.
but when I was shooting JPEG I would always shoot full resolution. Some post processing operations depend not just on individual pixels but on the pixels around them. I wouldn't throw away any information until you absolutely have to, which as far as resolution is concerned is the final resizing to the target viewing size.
OK, thanks.
Your 1300 pixels high is always a reduction from shooting at max 12 MP Fine, I guess? How did you pick 1300? Just the look of it, I guess?
It fits nicely on to my 1440 pixel high screen. That way I can look at them quite large but without any resizing confusing the issue and degrading the image. Selfish of course, but you have to choose some size or other.
Ah, so with my 768 px screen, I might want to stay with 1500 px to enable me to zoom in to more detail.

Mike
 
Your 1300 pixels high is always a reduction from shooting at max 12 MP Fine, I guess? How did you pick 1300? Just the look of it, I guess?
It fits nicely on to my 1440 pixel high screen. That way I can look at them quite large but without any resizing confusing the issue and degrading the image. Selfish of course, but you have to choose some size or other.
Ah, so with my 768 px screen, I might want to stay with 1500 px to enable me to zoom in to more detail.
You could leave it full size of course if you want to zoom in on detail. But full size is often not too pretty on the FZ200, so 1500 pixels high might be about right, yes.
 
Ah, so with my 768 px screen, I might want to stay with 1500 px to enable me to zoom in to more detail.
You could leave it full size of course if you want to zoom in on detail. But full size is often not too pretty on the FZ200,
That's why I wanted to fix on a smaller size, which would also look better when someone hit "Original Size" on the Forums.
so 1500 pixels high might be about right, yes.
Am I dreaming, or did someone tell me that viewing size should best be a simple factor of screen size, e.g. on my 768 px high screen, not 1500 but 1536 [2x screen height] ?

I'll try it right now, see if I can see a difference.

Edit - just tried it, 1500 v 1536 px, 100% in FastStone Comparator, can see no difference.

Whoops ! Must go, have been tasked with repairing the vacuum cleaner.

Mike
 
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FWIW I have always set my monitors at Native resolution as any other setting can reduce the best quality that can be displayed.

Just my 2 pence' ;-)
 
FWIW I have always set my monitors at Native resolution as any other setting can reduce the best quality that can be displayed.
Thanks, yes, I have never changed it from default on my 19" monitor, 1366x768 px.

Mike
 
Ive bin trying out some partial tools of sp7pro and the cloning tool is more useful than first though of.

Did a video capturing



The video is in the tutorial folder called: Local spotting holding ctrl

This was the original image
This was the original image

This was the leafe and image after fiddling around.
This was the leafe and image after fiddling around.
 
Ive bin trying out some partial tools of sp7pro and the cloning tool is more useful than first though of.

Did a video capturing

The video is in the tutorial folder called: Local spotting holding ctrl

This was the original image
This was the original image

This was the leafe and image after fiddling around.
This was the leafe and image after fiddling around.
Good to have the video showing the process at a detailed level.

I have found the maximum brush size of 50 rather restrictive for my purposes (when dealing with significant areas in fairly OOF backgrounds), but you have shown here a good example of where it can work, on smaller areas.

--
Nick
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
 
Good to have the video showing the process at a detailed level.
(The video is made with TinyTake video mode, works rather fun; map out the video area and you can record for 5 min for free. With premium you can record longer and also annotate afterwards. Just want to try out this future :-) )
I have found the maximum brush size of 50 rather restrictive for my purposes (when dealing with significant areas in fairly OOF backgrounds), but you have shown here a good example of where it can work, on smaller areas.
Yes with larger areas the PSE color replacement is working better i think.

It should be even better if silkypix is making a cloning tool in which you can say this colorsection needs to be replaced by colors and partern of this section, like the magic lassoo. In this way it is rather work intensive to fill a space nice and smoothe.

Now im doing the leafs on the right do's are even more difficult because of the texture in the leaf.

I starting to think if Silkypix is making some work to ease up some adjusting work/tools like de-fogging/De hazing/clarify fit in a slider like the one for "dodge / Burn" , stretch the radius 0-5 boundery of the unsharpmask tool and make some 1-5 min video tutorial behind the " blue i" for some adjusting options (distorsion adjustments for instance) to point the user into the right direction and this RAW developer program wil ending up as a very powerfull "one for all images" tool for enthousiast photographers like us.

:-D





the end result (Nick his trick  (flipping before after) i can't
the end result (Nick his trick (flipping before after) i can't

and some others after i understand the clarifying with USM and Blacklevel.



first attempt.
first attempt.



after understanding usm black level and used spotting tool  auto erased for sun circels
after understanding usm black level and used spotting tool auto erased for sun circels







 
Last edited:
hmmm, i think this thread is finaly get to rest.

Do we continue here posting things about how to improve images in general and with some of the applications we discussing here or split up things?

However:

I am still learning and finding out how to get the most out of SP7pro because i decided to use this as my main application and co driver & librarian => PSE13.

DxO, well , still knocking on the door but im always for:

"better to handle one or two tools as a expert then get a buckload of expert tools you can't handle! "

So first expertise in the use of SP7pro and PSE13 amd then fill the gabs if there are with a new tool.

And funny enough the most informative video or even plain text tutorial about how to use sp7 is made by this thread. Mostly by Gardnersassistant.

There are not alot of informative sites links to find except some in Japanese argh!

No books , no blogs, no support site of the producer itself (or shatterd around somewhere), only some standard things and a contact form/email. It is a pitty because IF they (ISL) put a small effort in making how to use tutorials of every main tool and/or the main adjustments like Highlight Shadow Contrast build up, Distortion and Diffraction, Colortaste/White Balance adjustment, Noise and Sharpening , Clarifying/Defogging things, Fine Tuning Partial Correction tool, Tone Curve tool, this application is very useful for most of us non professional enthusiasts.

Adobe has books, tutorials, blogs, extended support site for most of there products so much easier to catch up and get more out of your application. Imho you never gain more % of the market if you don't share knowledge how to use your stuff.

Unknown means unloved and finally forgotten. And i found that a pity if that is happening.

only things i found or given by support of the European sales partner :

Silkypixmovie

youtube search

official site

some other official campaign video

The lather link are actually nice examples about getting to know the application in this case sp5. And if they make the same for sp7pro and some more this will be a big step forward in passive (non asked) support!
 
hmmm, i think this thread is finaly get to rest.

Do we continue here posting things about how to improve images in general and with some of the applications we discussing here or split up things?
Maybe better to have more focused threads now? Mike has started threads about Helicon Filter. Perhaps we should start one on SP7. That way folk who are interested in a particular product won't have to wade through stuff about other products they aren't interested in, which may put them off bothering at all.
However:

I am still learning and finding out how to get the most out of SP7pro because i decided to use this as my main application and co driver & librarian => PSE13.
I've done some work on sharpening with SP7 (good sharpening, but artefacts, and how to get rid of them), and I've done some comparisons with alternative approaches. I'm fairly settled now that for my insects etc I'm going to use DXO followed by SP7 (with SP7 doing the sharpening). I'm not absolutely sure yet about flowers (my other main subjects) but it looks like I may not be using Lightroom much now.
DxO, well , still knocking on the door but im always for:

"better to handle one or two tools as a expert then get a buckload of expert tools you can't handle! "

So first expertise in the use of SP7pro and PSE13 amd then fill the gabs if there are with a new tool.

And funny enough the most informative video or even plain text tutorial about how to use sp7 is made by this thread. Mostly by Gardnersassistant.

There are not alot of informative sites links to find except some in Japanese argh!

No books , no blogs, no support site of the producer itself (or shatterd around somewhere), only some standard things and a contact form/email. It is a pitty because IF they (ISL) put a small effort in making how to use tutorials of every main tool and/or the main adjustments like Highlight Shadow Contrast build up, Distortion and Diffraction, Colortaste/White Balance adjustment, Noise and Sharpening , Clarifying/Defogging things, Fine Tuning Partial Correction tool, Tone Curve tool, this application is very useful for most of us non professional enthusiasts.

Adobe has books, tutorials, blogs, extended support site for most of there products so much easier to catch up and get more out of your application. Imho you never gain more % of the market if you don't share knowledge how to use your stuff.

Unknown means unloved and finally forgotten. And i found that a pity if that is happening.
It's true that there isn't much information about SP7, but they must have enough users to make it worth their while continuing to develop it, so even though there isn't much SP7 knowledge and enthusiasm to tap on these forums I'm not downhearted about its future.
only things i found or given by support of the European sales partner :

Silkypixmovie

youtube search

official site

some other official campaign video

The lather link are actually nice examples about getting to know the application in this case sp5. And if they make the same for sp7pro and some more this will be a big step forward in passive (non asked) support!
 
hmmm, i think this thread is finaly get to rest.

Do we continue here posting things about how to improve images in general and with some of the applications we discussing here or split up things?
Maybe better to have more focused threads now? Mike has started threads about Helicon Filter. Perhaps we should start one on SP7. That way folk who are interested in a particular product won't have to wade through stuff about other products they aren't interested in, which may put them off bothering at all.
That can be a good idea, maybe started with links to all information and tutorials we already found. (should this not placed in the retouching section or is it better to keep it close to the Panasonic /smallsensor users in order to keep it low threshold and easy going?)
However:

I am still learning and finding out how to get the most out of SP7pro because i decided to use this as my main application and co driver & librarian => PSE13.
I've done some work on sharpening with SP7 (good sharpening, but artefacts, and how to get rid of them), and I've done some comparisons with alternative approaches.
Did you found out which does what and how to fine tune the different sharpening/noise reduction settings?
I'm fairly settled now that for my insects etc I'm going to use DXO
ok which part is DxO better for? (im fairly sure we talked about that earlier but i forgot.) Denoising? view /distortion correction? highlight recovering?
followed by SP7 (with SP7 doing the sharpening). I'm not absolutely sure yet about flowers (my other main subjects) but it looks like I may not be using Lightroom much now.
DxO, well , still knocking on the door but im always for:

"better to handle one or two tools as a expert then get a buckload of expert tools you can't handle! "

So first expertise in the use of SP7pro and PSE13 amd then fill the gabs if there are with a new tool.

And funny enough the most informative video or even plain text tutorial about how to use sp7 is made by this thread. Mostly by Gardnersassistant.

There are not alot of informative sites links to find except some in Japanese argh!

No books , no blogs, no support site of the producer itself (or shatterd around somewhere), only some standard things and a contact form/email. It is a pitty because IF they (ISL) put a small effort in making how to use tutorials of every main tool and/or the main adjustments like Highlight Shadow Contrast build up, Distortion and Diffraction, Colortaste/White Balance adjustment, Noise and Sharpening , Clarifying/Defogging things, Fine Tuning Partial Correction tool, Tone Curve tool, this application is very useful for most of us non professional enthusiasts.

Adobe has books, tutorials, blogs, extended support site for most of there products so much easier to catch up and get more out of your application. Imho you never gain more % of the market if you don't share knowledge how to use your stuff.

Unknown means unloved and finally forgotten. And i found that a pity if that is happening.
It's true that there isn't much information about SP7, but they must have enough users to make it worth their while continuing to develop it, so even though there isn't much SP7 knowledge and enthusiasm to tap on these forums I'm not downhearted about its future.
I think the Japanese market is more there selling placel (given the fact that most of all tutorials are Japanese application and maker.)
only things i found or given by support of the European sales partner :

Silkypixmovie

youtube search

official site

some other official campaign video

The lather link are actually nice examples about getting to know the application in this case sp5. And if they make the same for sp7pro and some more this will be a big step forward in passive (non asked) support!
--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
 
hmmm, i think this thread is finaly get to rest.

Do we continue here posting things about how to improve images in general and with some of the applications we discussing here or split up things?
Maybe better to have more focused threads now? Mike has started threads about Helicon Filter. Perhaps we should start one on SP7. That way folk who are interested in a particular product won't have to wade through stuff about other products they aren't interested in, which may put them off bothering at all.
That can be a good idea, maybe started with links to all information and tutorials we already found. (should this not placed in the retouching section or is it better to keep it close to the Panasonic /smallsensor users in order to keep it low threshold and easy going?)
Given the work needed to create such a link reference would the Google drive you created perhaps be the best place to keep it? If it is here at dpreview, whether on this forum or the retouching forum, I think it will quickly disappear from view and become difficult to find.

As to where to have our discussions about SP7, given Mike's experience with the retouching forum with regard to Helicon Filter (no response whatever) I would have thought it may be better to discuss SP7 here. At least there is the Panasonic only SP7 which might draw in some people here. As with Helicon Filter, I doubt there is ever going to be a large audience for SP7 issues.
However:

I am still learning and finding out how to get the most out of SP7pro because i decided to use this as my main application and co driver & librarian => PSE13.
I've done some work on sharpening with SP7 (good sharpening, but artefacts, and how to get rid of them), and I've done some comparisons with alternative approaches.
Did you found out which does what and how to fine tune the different sharpening/noise reduction settings?
I've found settings that seem to be working ok for my insect images (given pre-processing with DXO). I can't really say I've got a feel for how all the alternatives work though - it's like with DXO, I've found some settings that seem to work ok even though I don't really understand why they work or whether they might be improved if I experimented more and/or understood better.
I'm fairly settled now that for my insects etc I'm going to use DXO
ok which part is DxO better for? (im fairly sure we talked about that earlier but i forgot.) Denoising? view /distortion correction? highlight recovering?
DXO is good for (FZ200 images) denoising raw images, microcontrast enhancement and lens softness correction. This is all mainly to do with my FZ200 insect/spider etc images. I also use DXO to do an initial "brightness level", so for example under-exposed images come out of DXO and into SP7 at a fairly good level to use either "as is" or as a starting point for adjusting Exposure bias, Color burn, Dodge etc and Black level.

I haven't decided yet whether to use DXO for pre-processing flower images. I might just use SP7. I have recently been concentrating on insects, spiders etc but my next set to work on has quite a lot of flowers in it.
 
hmmm, i think this thread is finaly get to rest.

Do we continue here posting things about how to improve images in general and with some of the applications we discussing here or split up things?
Maybe better to have more focused threads now? Mike has started threads about Helicon Filter. Perhaps we should start one on SP7. That way folk who are interested in a particular product won't have to wade through stuff about other products they aren't interested in, which may put them off bothering at all.
That can be a good idea, maybe started with links to all information and tutorials we already found. (should this not placed in the retouching section or is it better to keep it close to the Panasonic /smallsensor users in order to keep it low threshold and easy going?)
Given the work needed to create such a link reference would the Google drive you created perhaps be the best place to keep it? If it is here at dpreview, whether on this forum or the retouching forum, I think it will quickly disappear from view and become difficult to find.
Ok i did make a new folder inside the "tutorial folder" named "Silkypix Developer Studio" and a "Helicon Filter" folder (this is just for if someone wants to ad some thing in it). Inside i placed all tutorial like links or files. (Maybe a LightRoom folder also?)
As to where to have our discussions about SP7, given Mike's experience with the retouching forum with regard to Helicon Filter (no response whatever) I would have thought it may be better to discuss SP7 here. At least there is the Panasonic only SP7 which might draw in some people here. As with Helicon Filter, I doubt there is ever going to be a large audience for SP7 issues.
I think your right ;-)
However:

I am still learning and finding out how to get the most out of SP7pro because i decided to use this as my main application and co driver & librarian => PSE13.
I've done some work on sharpening with SP7 (good sharpening, but artefacts, and how to get rid of them), and I've done some comparisons with alternative approaches.
Did you found out which does what and how to fine tune the different sharpening/noise reduction settings?
I've found settings that seem to be working ok for my insect images (given pre-processing with DXO). I can't really say I've got a feel for how all the alternatives work though - it's like with DXO, I've found some settings that seem to work ok even though I don't really understand why they work or whether they might be improved if I experimented more and/or understood better.
Same here only less knowledge.
I'm fairly settled now that for my insects etc I'm going to use DXO
ok which part is DxO better for? (im fairly sure we talked about that earlier but i forgot.) Denoising? view /distortion correction? highlight recovering?
DXO is good for (FZ200 images) denoising raw images, microcontrast enhancement and lens softness correction. This is all mainly to do with my FZ200 insect/spider etc images. I also use DXO to do an initial "brightness level", so for example under-exposed images come out of DXO and into SP7 at a fairly good level to use either "as is" or as a starting point for adjusting Exposure bias, Color burn, Dodge etc and Black level.
Ah when i am satisfied with learning sp7 i start a trail in DxO. just for fun. see where its ends up. :-)

(By the Way: is it possible to ad the option "placed Raynox 150 on to the lens" for the auto lens aberration controller/correction? because i can predict that photo's with the lens on will disrupt the auto distortion correction in silkypix and DxO.)
I haven't decided yet whether to use DXO for pre-processing flower images. I might just use SP7. I have recently been concentrating on insects, spiders etc but my next set to work on has quite a lot of flowers in it.

--
Nick
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gardenersassistant/collections/
GardenersAssistant Photography Videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmBgEwRDfiQMYTPORSzDxvw
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/t...-dslr-primes-a-journey-of-exploration.531050/
 
Ok i did make a new folder inside the "tutorial folder" named "Silkypix Developer Studio" and a "Helicon Filter" folder (this is just for if someone wants to ad some thing in it). Inside i placed all tutorial like links or files. (Maybe a LightRoom folder also?)
Lightroom? Maybe, if anyone shows any interest. But there is plenty of stuff around about Lightroom so quite probably not necessary.
(By the Way: is it possible to ad the option "placed Raynox 150 on to the lens" for the auto lens aberration controller/correction?
Don't understand what you are suggesting here ....
because i can predict that photo's with the lens on will disrupt the auto distortion correction in silkypix and DxO.)
... but I've never found distortion correction to be an issue when using any of my close-up lenses.
 
Where i am referring to is the fact that the in the software embedded lens correction and pre-settings for , for instanced, fz200 will be not take into account for the extra lens and so (maybe) other diffraction and distorsion values.

When load rawfile from a milc or dslr the cameratype plus lenstype (known by camera through embedded chip in the lens) information is used to do the correct corrections and or presets.

So when change the lens characteristics by adding a lens without changing the parameters those assumed presets can be wrong.

Or is this totally not in play? and only needed for the engine of the camera by producing OOC Jpegs?
 
Where i am referring to is the fact that the in the software embedded lens correction and pre-settings for , for instanced, fz200 will be not take into account for the extra lens and so (maybe) other diffraction and distorsion values.

When load rawfile from a milc or dslr the cameratype plus lenstype (known by camera through embedded chip in the lens) information is used to do the correct corrections and or presets.

So when change the lens characteristics by adding a lens without changing the parameters those assumed presets can be wrong.

Or is this totally not in play? and only needed for the engine of the camera by producing OOC Jpegs?
I don't know if it matters or not. But assuming it does, are you suggesting the software suppliers should add settings to take account of close-up lenses? I can't see that happening - too much work for too small an audience to make it worth their while I should think.
 

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