Nikon's response to A1...

[Ellis Vener]

...hopefully.

maljo

I wonder if and when Sony is going to sell this sensor to Nikon...

if Nikon can pay for it I’m sure Sony will be willing to sell it to them. As things stand, currently Nikon’s EXPEED processing pipeline gets more usable data out of Sony’s CMOS sensors than Sony does (comparing rcolor, and dynamic range of the A7RIII to the Z7 and Z7II; clearly the A7IV has a higher pixel count.

And 9,6M EVF? They made it crazy good - on paper at least.

I wonder if Nikon makes it for them. They’ve been a leading manufacturer of EVFs for few years.

 

[shuncheung]

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

I would say Nikon needs better contenders in both categories. Canon's R5 and R6 threaten Nikon's Z6 and Z7, including the 2nd-gen II versions. The Sony A1 is $6500, and which Nikon body is $6500? Right, the D6. All of a sudden, the A1 had leaped far ahead of the D6, which was announced in late February 2020; i.e. not even a full year old.

6500$ cameras don't sell that much. But if Nikon had an R5 rival at 3500$ that would make Nikon lots of money.

The D6 was designed for the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which did not take place. Now a year later, the D6 already looks out of date.

As a D5 owner since shortly after Nikon started shipping them in 2016, the D6 has not advanced that much ahead of the D5. Meanwhile, while the A1 has impressive specs, I think Canon and Nikon still have better knowledge to build pro, sports cameras. In other words, Nikon still has opportunities to respond and catch up. The thing is, even the postponed 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics is still a bit of up in the air at the moment.

 

[Batdude]

More importantly, how will Nikon respond to a 5000$ 100MP Medium Format camera from Fuji tomorrow?
For landscape shooters, that pretty much nails it for all other camera brands. Why shoot anything else when you can get 100MP Medium Format at 5000$?

The rumor sites with the leaked press release say it is $6000 actually. Add on a 32-64 for $2300 and you are at $8300. Z7II+24-70/4 is $3100.

Assuming that there won't be any bundles with the Fuji.
Still for a slightly higher price we are in 100MP Medium format territory now.

When Fuji dropped GFX100, I wasn't concerned, because it was 10K. But for 5K or if you say, 6K, this is now a more or less affordable ultra high res medium format which is a catch for landscapers.

I guess “more or less affordable” is a relatively term to some people and I guess a lot of people must have deep pockets because I personally have zero interest in such expensive cameras. Can’t afford them, and I don’t need more than 24 million pixels. A few bucks off makes no difference to me and I still find such system outrageously expensive.

--
https://www.instagram.com/dodobilge/

 

[Tailslol]

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

I would say Nikon needs better contenders in both categories. Canon's R5 and R6 threaten Nikon's Z6 and Z7, including the 2nd-gen II versions. The Sony A1 is $6500, and which Nikon body is $6500? Right, the D6. All of a sudden, the A1 had leaped far ahead of the D6, which was announced in late February 2020; i.e. not even a full year old.

A9II was already ahead of D6 on paper. I don't know if D6 has better AF than A9II on the field though.

And I think a DSLR with OVF always has an edge against a mirrorless with EVF if you are shooting anything fast acting. So even though A1 obliterates D6 or 1DXIII on paper, they have a zero lag view of what's happening, which you cannot beat. That's why I have no idea why Canon did not put the R5's sensor into 1DXIII and make it 16fps 50 MP mechanical shutter monster.

A 16 fps 50MP 1DXIII would be better than A1 I think.


About R5 and R6, their strength is that they have faster framerates and better AF than Z6 II and Z7 II. If you are not shooting action/sports/wildlife, the Z's are better value than the R's.
But as someone who shoots wildlife/landscape, I'd love to have an R5 contender on Nikon, but wouldn't care about an A1 contender which does not interest me in the slightest.

--
https://www.instagram.com/dodobilge/

 

[Ellis Vener]

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

I would say Nikon needs better contenders in both categories. Canon's R5 and R6 threaten Nikon's Z6 and Z7, including the 2nd-gen II versions. The Sony A1 is $6500, and which Nikon body is $6500? Right, the D6. All of a sudden, the A1 had leaped far ahead of the D6, which was announced in late February 2020; i.e. not even a full year old.

6500$ cameras don't sell that much. But if Nikon had an R5 rival at 3500$ that would make Nikon lots of money.

The D6 was designed for the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which did not take place. Now a year later, the D6 already looks out of date.

That happens.

As a D5 owner since shortly after Nikon started shipping them in 2016, the D6 has not advanced that much ahead of the D5. Meanwhile, while the A1 has impressive specs, I think Canon and Nikon still have better knowledge to build pro, sports cameras. In other words, Nikon still has opportunities to respond and catch up. The thing is, even the postponed 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics is still a bit of up in the air at the moment.

True. You bets your money and you take your chances.

 

[spec68]

A1 is pricey but bleeding edge tech always is. It’s not intended as a consumer camera, it will be bought by corporate money, directly or indirectly. It’s also not intended to make Sony a bundle of cash. It’s purpose is to ramp up the race to be viewed as the mirrorless tech leader and “official” choice of pros. And in that regard Nikon must make a move soon. Nikon needs some innovation news that moves jaws open. Hopefully that comes before or during CP+.

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

6500$ cameras don't sell that much. But if Nikon had an R5 rival at 3500$ that would make Nikon lots of money.

None of that is a threat - Nikon’s holding on to 3rd place in mirrorless. The A1 is Sony preening. I said in my initial post Sony didn’t make it to be a profit center. It’s a PR centerpiece. Anyone who is serious about photography and enjoys camera tech, no matter what brand they prefer, sees the A1’s features and drools. If anything, the A1, rather than being a threat to Nikon is the loudest wake up call yet. That’s all I’m saying. Time for us to hear from Nikon.

 

[Tailslol]

A1 is pricey but bleeding edge tech always is. It’s not intended as a consumer camera, it will be bought by corporate money, directly or indirectly. It’s also not intended to make Sony a bundle of cash. It’s purpose is to ramp up the race to be viewed as the mirrorless tech leader and “official” choice of pros. And in that regard Nikon must make a move soon. Nikon needs some innovation news that moves jaws open. Hopefully that comes before or during CP+.

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

6500$ cameras don't sell that much. But if Nikon had an R5 rival at 3500$ that would make Nikon lots of money.

None of that is a threat - Nikon’s holding on to 3rd place in mirrorless. The A1 is Sony preening. I said in my initial post Sony didn’t make it to be a profit center. It’s a PR centerpiece. Anyone who is serious about photography and enjoys camera tech, no matter what brand they prefer, sees the A1’s features and drools. If anything, the A1, rather than being a threat to Nikon is the loudest wake up call yet. That’s all I’m saying. Time for us to hear from Nikon.

Agreed.

 

[Batdude]

More importantly, how will Nikon respond to a 5000$ 100MP Medium Format camera from Fuji tomorrow?
For landscape shooters, that pretty much nails it for all other camera brands. Why shoot anything else when you can get 100MP Medium Format at 5000$?

Nikon is not in the medium format market. Apples and oranges.

Aside from high res sensors in full frame, Nikon does need to release a high res pixel shift feature. Anyone know why they haven't done this yet? Is it a patent issue of some sort?

Yeah but Medium Format is about to come into the FF territory, price wise.
A 50MP GFX50s didn't give too big of an IQ increase over 47MP Z7, but a 100MP one does.
I think all camera makers need to be watching out for Fuji medium format.

Medium format bodies are not the main stream bodies for things like retail portraits, family sessions, weddings, etc. They are big, heavy and typically do not feature fast AF-C systems (mirrorless has helped with size). Plus file sizes slow your pp considerably. Cost of lenses not to be ignored either. They are typically tools better reserved for studio work and high end jobs, e.g. fashion/beauty/product.

Full frame is the one who has reached a sweet spot lately, encompassing offerings within reach for the avid consumer / hobbyist (up from crop sensors), as well as the professional photog involved in retail and commercial work. If anything, it's the medium format guys who need to watch out. They need to push the envelope on their end because full frame is knocking at their door. Naturally, sensor size advantage is something that cannot be changed, but full frame has narrowed several gaps in recent years, such as resolution and DR.

Like I said, apples and oranges.

I said for landscape shooters. Not for anything else, maybe studio as well. But if I was primarily shooting landscape and was looking for a FF, I'd look into a 100MP MF as well.

Why would you want to spend $6000+ For a FF for landscape? This new Sony is not for landscape it is mainly for fast action wildlife and for anything else after that. For straight landscape photography there will be much less expensive options. Now if a 100MP Fuji is what (you) want then that’s on you, is your money not mine

A lot of people are not paying attention to this but Pentax will probably rule the landscape field because it looks like they might get their act together and come out with some interesting new bodies, and they won’t cost an arm and a leg.

 

[The Scandinavian Snoopy]

...hopefully.

maljo

I wonder if and when Sony is going to sell this sensor to Nikon...

And 9,6M EVF? They made it crazy good - on paper at least.

This sensor will be made in extremely small quantities so Sony will need to sell it to whoever might want it to keep the per unit price as low as possible.

By the way, the EVF is 9.6 million dots, which translates to 3.2 megapixels (or 2048 × 1536 pixels). In comparison, most Z cameras' EVFs are 3.69 million dots, or 1.23 mp (or 1280 x 960 pixels). The A1's EVF offers a 60% increase in resolution.

Sony has never sold the A7RII, or the SO sensor to anyone. I doubt they will sell this to anyone especially since it's a sensor with Dram.

 

[Ellis Vener]

A1 is pricey but bleeding edge tech always is. It’s not intended as a consumer camera, it will be bought by corporate money, directly or indirectly. It’s also not intended to make Sony a bundle of cash. It’s purpose is to ramp up the race to be viewed as the mirrorless tech leader and “official” choice of pros. And in that regard Nikon must make a move soon. Nikon needs some innovation news that moves jaws open. Hopefully that comes before or during CP+.

I really don't know why A1 suddenly is a threat for Nikon. R5 and R6 was that threat, and still is. That's the price territory Nikon needs a better contender at, not 6500$.

6500$ cameras don't sell that much. But if Nikon had an R5 rival at 3500$ that would make Nikon lots of money.

None of that is a threat - Nikon’s holding on to 3rd place in mirrorless. The A1 is Sony preening. I said in my initial post Sony didn’t make it to be a profit center. It’s a PR centerpiece. Anyone who is serious about photography and enjoys camera tech, no matter what brand they prefer, sees the A1’s features and drools. If anything, the A1, rather than being a threat to Nikon is the loudest wake up call yet. That’s all I’m saying. Time for us to hear from Nikon.

And at the same time Canon projects that the stand alone camera market will shortly be 8% of the size it was in 2011.

 

[SaltyPeanut]

More importantly, how will Nikon respond to a 5000$ 100MP Medium Format camera from Fuji tomorrow?
For landscape shooters, that pretty much nails it for all other camera brands. Why shoot anything else when you can get 100MP Medium Format at 5000$?

Nikon is not in the medium format market. Apples and oranges.

Aside from high res sensors in full frame, Nikon does need to release a high res pixel shift feature. Anyone know why they haven't done this yet? Is it a patent issue of some sort?

Yeah but Medium Format is about to come into the FF territory, price wise.
A 50MP GFX50s didn't give too big of an IQ increase over 47MP Z7, but a 100MP one does.
I think all camera makers need to be watching out for Fuji medium format.

Medium format bodies are not the main stream bodies for things like retail portraits, family sessions, weddings, etc. They are big, heavy and typically do not feature fast AF-C systems (mirrorless has helped with size). Plus file sizes slow your pp considerably. Cost of lenses not to be ignored either. They are typically tools better reserved for studio work and high end jobs, e.g. fashion/beauty/product.

Full frame is the one who has reached a sweet spot lately, encompassing offerings within reach for the avid consumer / hobbyist (up from crop sensors), as well as the professional photog involved in retail and commercial work. If anything, it's the medium format guys who need to watch out. They need to push the envelope on their end because full frame is knocking at their door. Naturally, sensor size advantage is something that cannot be changed, but full frame has narrowed several gaps in recent years, such as resolution and DR.

Like I said, apples and oranges.

I said for landscape shooters. Not for anything else, maybe studio as well. But if I was primarily shooting landscape and was looking for a FF, I'd look into a 100MP MF as well.

You're still closer to $10k with 1-2 solid lenses, vs closer to $5k with 1-2 solid lenses in full frame - and again, further expenses on the post processing side with those large files. Unless you have a compelling reason for 100mpx / medium format, a high res full frame option is very attractive over medium format for most people out there. Some high res ff bodies also offer a pixel shift feature which can produce even higher res images, if that's all you care about.

 

[msu79gt82]

The D6 was designed for the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which did not take place. Now a year later, the D6 already looks out of date.

As a D5 owner since shortly after Nikon started shipping them in 2016, the D6 has not advanced that much ahead of the D5. Meanwhile, while the A1 has impressive specs, I think Canon and Nikon still have better knowledge to build pro, sports cameras. In other words, Nikon still has opportunities to respond and catch up. The thing is, even the postponed 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics is still a bit of up in the air at the moment.

In my humble (or perhaps not so humble) opinion Nikon needs to release cameras according to a technology advancement schedule and NOT according to a sporting event schedule.

To me releasing cameras because of the Olympics made some marketing sense and worked for Nikon/Canon in the past, but I believe that those days should be over. And in fact may be over. It makes no sense to me for Nikon to artificially wait for a sporting event (e.g. Olympics) if the cameras are ready to go.

I'm certain that Nikon is following that old-school philosophy for this latest round of high end action cameras, but going forward Nikon should put the pedal-to-the-metal and release cameras because they are ready and not artificially time a release for an event.

 

[camerosity]

...hopefully.

maljo

I wonder if and when Sony is going to sell this sensor to Nikon...

And 9,6M EVF? They made it crazy good - on paper at least.

Nikon specs their own sensors for their high-end cameras. They would not be purchasing this sensor. When Nikon released the D800 back in February, 2012, there was no other camera like it in the world, remember?

Nikon is still planning to release a pro-level mirrorless SLR. Wait for it. I predict it will beat the performance of this Sony camera AND be cheaper.

 

[shuncheung]

The D6 was designed for the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which did not take place. Now a year later, the D6 already looks out of date.

As a D5 owner since shortly after Nikon started shipping them in 2016, the D6 has not advanced that much ahead of the D5. Meanwhile, while the A1 has impressive specs, I think Canon and Nikon still have better knowledge to build pro, sports cameras. In other words, Nikon still has opportunities to respond and catch up. The thing is, even the postponed 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics is still a bit of up in the air at the moment.

In my humble (or perhaps not so humble) opinion Nikon needs to release cameras according to a technology advancement schedule and NOT according to a sporting event schedule.

To me releasing cameras because of the Olympics made some marketing sense and worked for Nikon/Canon in the past, but I believe that those days should be over. And in fact may be over. It makes no sense to me for Nikon to artificially wait for a sporting event (e.g. Olympics) if the cameras are ready to go.

There is also a marketing aspect of this. The Summer Olympics has the entire world's attention for 2 weeks (normally) every 4 years. It is a great opportunity to showcase new cameras. The fact that the 2020/2021 Olympics is supposed to be held in Tokyo has extra significance for the Japanese camera manufacturers.

I'm certain that Nikon is following that old-school philosophy for this latest round of high end action cameras, but going forward Nikon should put the pedal-to-the-metal and release cameras because they are ready and not artificially time a release for an event.

Clearly something like this Sony Alpha 1 wasn't ready from either Sony, Canon, or Nikon a year ago for the (scheduled) 2020 Olympics. Hence both Canon and Nikon introduced a $6500 DSLR at the beginning of 2020, and Nikon also introduced a 120-300mm/f2.8. In my mind I was pretty sure those were the last of their kinds.

The problem now is that whether Nikon should rush out a $6500 Z for the 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics. Worse yet, Nikon has no long tele in the Z mount beyond the 70-200mm/f2.8 S. IMO they need at least the 400mm/f2.8 S for the Olympics. Canon is pretty much in that same boat. And I wonder whether the Olympics can be held even in July 2021. There is plenty of uncertainty.

 

[Love Photography 888]

Rumors are Nikon going to follow Olympus.

 

[msu79gt82]

The D6 was designed for the 2020 Tokyo Summer Olympics, which did not take place. Now a year later, the D6 already looks out of date.

As a D5 owner since shortly after Nikon started shipping them in 2016, the D6 has not advanced that much ahead of the D5. Meanwhile, while the A1 has impressive specs, I think Canon and Nikon still have better knowledge to build pro, sports cameras. In other words, Nikon still has opportunities to respond and catch up. The thing is, even the postponed 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics is still a bit of up in the air at the moment.

In my humble (or perhaps not so humble) opinion Nikon needs to release cameras according to a technology advancement schedule and NOT according to a sporting event schedule.

To me releasing cameras because of the Olympics made some marketing sense and worked for Nikon/Canon in the past, but I believe that those days should be over. And in fact may be over. It makes no sense to me for Nikon to artificially wait for a sporting event (e.g. Olympics) if the cameras are ready to go.

There is also a marketing aspect of this. The Summer Olympics has the entire world's attention for 2 weeks (normally) every 4 years. It is a great opportunity to showcase new cameras. The fact that the 2020/2021 Olympics is supposed to be held in Tokyo has extra significance for the Japanese camera manufacturers.

In today’s world how many of these entire world’s event viewers pay any attention to the camera gear? In today’s reality any such marketing is only to a handful of professional sports photographers. I was merely questioning the idea of any modern marketing advantage of timing product releases with the Olympics. Surely Nikon would be better served by focusing on product releases to the masses in a timely manner.

I'm certain that Nikon is following that old-school philosophy for this latest round of high end action cameras, but going forward Nikon should put the pedal-to-the-metal and release cameras because they are ready and not artificially time a release for an event.

Clearly something like this Sony Alpha 1 wasn't ready from either Sony, Canon, or Nikon a year ago for the (scheduled) 2020 Olympics. Hence both Canon and Nikon introduced a $6500 DSLR at the beginning of 2020, and Nikon also introduced a 120-300mm/f2.8. In my mind I was pretty sure those were the last of their kinds.

The problem now is that whether Nikon should rush out a $6500 Z for the 2021 Tokyo Summer Olympics. Worse yet, Nikon has no long tele in the Z mount beyond the 70-200mm/f2.8 S. IMO they need at least the 400mm/f2.8 S for the Olympics. Canon is pretty much in that same boat. And I wonder whether the Olympics can be held even in July 2021. There is plenty of uncertainty.

I understand that. I’m just suggesting that camera manufacturers, especially Nikon for me, should simply be pursuing continued improvements via new hardware (lenses, cameras, accessories, etc) and software (Expeed, firmware, etc) and release said improvements whenever they’re ready and not artificially wait on some event.

 

[dp20210116]

mirrorless SLR.

so where that relfex will be coming from in "mirrorless SLR" ?!

 

[vbuhay]

NT...

 

[thayes15]

I’m out of my depth here but is the Sony sensor being stacked able to process images faster than the Canikon sensor which is not stacked. Therefore Canikon will never match Sony speed?

I don’t even know what stacked sensor means but is it the point of difference that makes Sony faster

 

[michaeladawson]

...hopefully.

maljo

Yes. But I doubt it.

I’d be on the preorder list for a Nikon version of this camera. I can only hope to be pleasantly surprised.