New monitor time, thought I had it sorted but ...

[Austinian]

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Hmmm...interesting idea. That makes me wonder if this has anything to do with MS's so-called "Automatic Color Management". I'll have to look into that later. Thanks for the thought.

After looking a little deeper into ACM (and reading BobKnDP's link) I don't think this feature will be of much use to me; I'd normally just export images from PhotoLab using the sRGB option if I needed the limited gamut. Otherwise, I don't mind my desktop being a bit vivid but I can see the value for someone who works mostly in sRGB.

 

[Chris Noble]

(snip)

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Eureka!

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's a system setting (system > display > color management) "Automatically manage color for apps". It was turned on.

When I turned it off, DisplayCalArgyll CMS functioned as before. 100% coverage sRGB, 99.99% Adobe RGB, 96.75% DCI-P3.

It's not what I'd call intuitively obvious. I got a hint from a fairly unclearly written (IMHO) link in another forum.

Windows 11 24H2 Update: AMD Users Face Color Profile Challenges | Windows Forum

I'll have to check whether the issue has anything to do with AMD CPUs. (I have one on this system. Other PC, Intel Gen13.)

You need to have "Use my settings for this device" turned on for each of the monitor(s) that you want to load your own profiles for. And your profile selected as well of course. This is not a new feature in 24H2.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

All this colour management stuff is a little confusing.

If the only app I want to colour manage is my photo editor, Capture 1, do I run a monitor calibration using my device of choice, save the icc profile on the computer and apply it in C1?

Since this monitor allows hardware calibration, under what conditions would I want to do that? Should I is another question entirely.

It sounds like I really don't want to let Windows 11 do colour app colour management.

 

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Eureka!

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's a system setting (system > display > color management) "Automatically manage color for apps". It was turned on.

When I turned it off, DisplayCalArgyll CMS functioned as before. 100% coverage sRGB, 99.99% Adobe RGB, 96.75% DCI-P3.

It's not what I'd call intuitively obvious. I got a hint from a fairly unclearly written (IMHO) link in another forum.

Windows 11 24H2 Update: AMD Users Face Color Profile Challenges | Windows Forum

I'll have to check whether the issue has anything to do with AMD CPUs. (I have one on this system. Other PC, Intel Gen13.)

You need to have "Use my settings for this device" turned on for each of the monitor(s) that you want to load your own profiles for. And your profile selected as well of course. This is not a new feature in 24H2.

Single monitor.

"Use my settings" has always been turned on, and the profiling software (Calibrite Profiler or DisplayCal) had worked properly in the past.

The auto color management is the new thing that messed up profiling.

 

[BobKnDP]

All this colour management stuff is a little confusing.

If the only app I want to colour manage is my photo editor, Capture 1, do I run a monitor calibration using my device of choice, save the icc profile on the computer and apply it in C1?

Since this monitor allows hardware calibration, under what conditions would I want to do that? Should I is another question entirely.

It sounds like I really don't want to let Windows 11 do colour app colour management.

Let me acknowledge that I'm far from an expert on color spaces and their uses.

Profiling software generates an ICC profile, and saves it in the appropriate Windows location. (C:\Windows\System32\spool\driver\color)

I use the Color Management control panel to remove all profiles other than the one I wish to use. ("Removing" one doesn't delete it. You can re-add it at your discretion.)

That profile will be used by color managed software. I don't use Capture 1, but I presume that it's color managed.

The LG monitor seems to not have a programmable LUT (lookup table). It's a $400US monitor, and I don't know of any such that have a programmable LUT. That means that there is no software to upload a calibration into the monitor. (If the factory color calibration is any good, I doubt that you'd ever miss that LUT.)

I haven't studied its manual, but it's likely that it has individual RGB adjustments. Changing those is a form of hardware calibration. I've done that with my monitors. Both Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal allow such adjustments. (In Profiler, you have to choose a setting that uses the RGB adjustments.)

 

[CAcreeks]

You need to have "Use my settings for this device" turned on for each of the monitor(s) that you want to load your own profiles for. And your profile selected as well of course. This is not a new feature in 24H2.

Single monitor.

"Use my settings" has always been turned on, and the profiling software (Calibrite Profiler or DisplayCal) had worked properly in the past.

The auto color management is the new thing that messed up profiling.

BobKnDP, it appears you are correct that Automatically manage color is a new W11 feature. Found a Reddit thread about it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/15e75xa/windows_11_acm_is_just_another_piece_of_trash_on

For an opposing viewpoint:

Advancing the State of Color Management in Windows - DirectX Developer Blog

Introducing Auto Color Management (ACM) – the power of Advanced Color on SDR (standard dynamic range) displays

devblogs.microsoft.com

 

[BobKnDP]

You need to have "Use my settings for this device" turned on for each of the monitor(s) that you want to load your own profiles for. And your profile selected as well of course. This is not a new feature in 24H2.

Single monitor.

"Use my settings" has always been turned on, and the profiling software (Calibrite Profiler or DisplayCal) had worked properly in the past.

The auto color management is the new thing that messed up profiling.

BobKnDP, it appears you are correct that Automatically manage color is a new W11 feature. Found a Reddit thread about it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/15e75xa/windows_11_acm_is_just_another_piece_of_trash_on

For an opposing viewpoint:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/auto-color-management/

Thanks for the links. I wish I'd found the Reddit one months ago. (Although it's beyond my level of understanding.) It's listed as from "1 year ago", but it seems to still apply.

I'm unclear on how new the ACM feature is in released versions of Win11. 24H2 may have enabled it by default.

I try to avoid language like "trash" as regards Windows, but they seem to have crapped in their mess kit on this one.

(Archaic language from a man I worked for 40+ years ago. He was the only person I've met who more or less enjoyed being in WWII. He worked for the MIT Radiation Lab, and installed radars in Europe. Wore an officer's uniform without insignia of rank. Worked directly for a general.)

 

[Austinian]

All this colour management stuff is a little confusing.

If the only app I want to colour manage is my photo editor, Capture 1, do I run a monitor calibration using my device of choice, save the icc profile on the computer and apply it in C1?

That's what I do for PhotoLab.

Since this monitor allows hardware calibration, under what conditions would I want to do that? Should I is another question entirely.

My acquaintance with hardware calibration was very brief, on a monitor I no longer have, and unsuccessful.

It sounds like I really don't want to let Windows 11 do colour app colour management.

It's only the Auto Color Management I'd be suspicious of at this point. If that's off, 11 does color management just like 10 AFAIK.

 

[New Wrycuda]

All this colour management stuff is a little confusing.

If the only app I want to colour manage is my photo editor, Capture 1, do I run a monitor calibration using my device of choice, save the icc profile on the computer and apply it in C1?

Since this monitor allows hardware calibration, under what conditions would I want to do that? Should I is another question entirely.

It sounds like I really don't want to let Windows 11 do colour app colour management.

Here’s one long-term user who never calibrates his monitors, apart from minor tweaks at setup. Never had an image rejected by the publishers.

Products from Dell, Acer, ASUS, Lenovo and Apple are pretty good out of the box.

Save yourself a lot of trouble and don’t let perfection be the enemy of “more than good enough”.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

(snip)

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Eureka!

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's a system setting (system > display > color management) "Automatically manage color for apps". It was turned on.

When I turned it off, DisplayCalArgyll CMS functioned as before. 100% coverage sRGB, 99.99% Adobe RGB, 96.75% DCI-P3.

It's not what I'd call intuitively obvious. I got a hint from a fairly unclearly written (IMHO) link in another forum.

Windows 11 24H2 Update: AMD Users Face Color Profile Challenges | Windows Forum

I'll have to check whether the issue has anything to do with AMD CPUs. (I have one on this system. Other PC, Intel Gen13.)

Or you could have read Austinian's previous post pointing this out.

 

[BobKnDP]

All this colour management stuff is a little confusing.

If the only app I want to colour manage is my photo editor, Capture 1, do I run a monitor calibration using my device of choice, save the icc profile on the computer and apply it in C1?

Since this monitor allows hardware calibration, under what conditions would I want to do that? Should I is another question entirely.

It sounds like I really don't want to let Windows 11 do colour app colour management.

Here’s one long-term user who never calibrates his monitors, apart from minor tweaks at setup. Never had an image rejected by the publishers.

Products from Dell, Acer, ASUS, Lenovo and Apple are pretty good out of the box.

Save yourself a lot of trouble and don’t let perfection be the enemy of “more than good enough”.

Probably sensible.

I'm not sure that "Never had an image rejected by the publishers" is a strong criterion for acceptability, though.

But as I invested in an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus, I feel compelled to use it.

 

[Austinian]

But as I invested in an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus, I feel compelled to use it.

Part of the reason I profile my monitors is that DisplayCAL gives me monitor info I'm curious about, like color gamut, contrast ratio, etc. when I change monitor settings or get a new monitor.

 

[BobKnDP]

But as I invested in an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus, I feel compelled to use it.

Part of the reason I profile my monitors is that DisplayCAL gives me monitor info I'm curious about, like color gamut, contrast ratio, etc. when I change monitor settings or get a new monitor.

I can't speak for "New Wrycuda", but it's possible that he/she/it/they would say that few of us need to know that stuff.

I enjoy bringing up Profile info in DisplayCal. Including the 3D gamut display, although it seems to be a little buggy on my PC.

 

[New Wrycuda]

Here’s one long-term user who never calibrates his monitors, apart from minor tweaks at setup. Never had an image rejected by the publishers.

Products from Dell, Acer, ASUS, Lenovo and Apple are pretty good out of the box.

Save yourself a lot of trouble and don’t let perfection be the enemy of “more than good enough”.

Probably sensible.

I'm not sure that "Never had an image rejected by the publishers" is a strong criterion for acceptability, though.

They are rather discriminating.

Others who view my work are complimentary, particularly my live-in “colour consultant”. It’s also satisfying that the daily MS background image is consistent across the several screens that are usually running.

But as I invested in an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus, I feel compelled to use it.

With the Rite Pro Plus “enhancements”, you’d be crazy if you didn’t. ;-)

-But I do wonder about the spectrophotometric accuracy of the calibration device.

 

[Chris Noble]

Here’s one long-term user who never calibrates his monitors, apart from minor tweaks at setup. Never had an image rejected by the publishers.

Bravo, but the two topics are unrelated.

The compelling reason to profile your monitor is so that it will match printer output. If you don't print, it's just a very easy convenience, but worth doing anyway, in my opinion.

The publisher looks just at the composition, even if your post-processing skills are poor (and they won't tell you). They will fix the photo before publishing it. If you didn't profile your monitor, that level of production detail seems to be something you don't care about anyway.

 

[New Wrycuda]

Here’s one long-term user who never calibrates his monitors, apart from minor tweaks at setup. Never had an image rejected by the publishers.

The publisher looks just at the composition, even if your post-processing skills are poor (and they won't tell you). They will fix the photo before publishing it. If you didn't profile your monitor, that level of production detail seems to be something you don't care about anyway.

Don’t assume that you are familiar with the arrangements that I have with my publishers.

Many of the photos have been extensively “fixed” before submission, and further adjustments by the publisher would be most unwelcome, as that may well interfere with the detail that I certainly do care about.

 

[Austinian]

But as I invested in an X-Rite i1Display Pro Plus, I feel compelled to use it.

Part of the reason I profile my monitors is that DisplayCAL gives me monitor info I'm curious about, like color gamut, contrast ratio, etc. when I change monitor settings or get a new monitor.

I can't speak for "New Wrycuda", but it's possible that he/she/it/they would say that few of us need to know that stuff.

For me, "Need to know" and "Want to know" are distant relations at best. There's little I need and many things I want.

I enjoy bringing up Profile info in DisplayCal. Including the 3D gamut display, although it seems to be a little buggy on my PC.

But do you "need" to know it? ;-)

 

[BobKnDP]

For me, photography and PCs are just damned hobbies.

Internet access is a necessity, and I refuse to do it via a smartphone. I suppose a mini PC connected to my 55" TV might be the most appropriate way to go. Maybe they'll let me do that in the nursing home. ;-)

 

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Eureka!

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's a system setting (system > display > color management) "Automatically manage color for apps". It was turned on.

When I turned it off, DisplayCalArgyll CMS functioned as before. 100% coverage sRGB, 99.99% Adobe RGB, 96.75% DCI-P3.

It's not what I'd call intuitively obvious. I got a hint from a fairly unclearly written (IMHO) link in another forum.

Windows 11 24H2 Update: AMD Users Face Color Profile Challenges | Windows Forum

I'll have to check whether the issue has anything to do with AMD CPUs. (I have one on this system. Other PC, Intel Gen13.)

Or you could have read Austinian's previous post pointing this out.

Do you mean the one where he speculated that ACM might be the culprit?

 

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

Single monitor.

"Use my settings" has always been turned on, and the profiling software (Calibrite Profiler or DisplayCal) had worked properly in the past.

The auto color management is the new thing that messed up profiling.

BobKnDP, it appears you are correct that Automatically manage color is a new W11 feature. Found a Reddit thread about it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/15e75xa/windows_11_acm_is_just_another_piece_of_trash_on

For an opposing viewpoint:

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/auto-color-management/

Thanks for the links. I wish I'd found the Reddit one months ago. (Although it's beyond my level of understanding.) It's listed as from "1 year ago", but it seems to still apply.

I'm unclear on how new the ACM feature is in released versions of Win11. 24H2 may have enabled it by default.

(snip)

An additional detail: I checked my secondary (Intel) system. ACM messed up profiling on it as well. Disabling ACM restored things.

I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been more online hollerin' about the issue, if 24H2 enables ACM by default.