New monitor time, thought I had it sorted but ...

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

A comment on Reddit said, "OLED has as many local dimming zones as pixels."

Thats an absurd way of putting it, even if it's not false.

Another said that HDR video content looks convincing on OLED because of very dark blacks.

I don't do a lot of HDR video. I have a few sample videos lying around. In my dimly lit room, HDR seems more than bright enough. (I've done the rather basic built-in Windows 11 HDR "calibration".)

I have an optical drive with an old firmware that permits me to show UHD movie disks, but I never use that capability. I watch movie disks using a 55" OLED TV, in my living room.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

More than tempting. I did see the reviews on rtings.com. These were all $1,500 monitors when I started looking a couple of weeks ago.

I was leaning towards the Asus Proart PA329CRV as a possible splurge, but the black levels on the Dell are stunning. Damn you black Friday.

Any reasons for choosing the Proart PA329CRV over the PA239CV?

I'm interested in both.

If you do a comparison on the Asus site, they both have the same brightness levels and contrast ratio. My guess is that the CRV is a replacement for the CV.

 

[BobKnDP]

More than tempting. I did see the reviews on rtings.com. These were all $1,500 monitors when I started looking a couple of weeks ago.

I was leaning towards the Asus Proart PA329CRV as a possible splurge, but the black levels on the Dell are stunning. Damn you black Friday.

Any reasons for choosing the Proart PA329CRV over the PA239CV?

I'm interested in both.

If you do a comparison on the Asus site, they both have the same brightness levels and contrast ratio. My guess is that the CRV is a replacement for the CV.

If displayspecifications.com is to be believed, the PA329CV is a 2020 model. The PA329CRV, 2023.

 

[Chris Noble]

(I'm still annoyed with Microsoft. I haven't been able to properly re-profile my monitor since I got Windows 11 24H2, due to what I assume is a bug in the OS. The manufacturer's ICC profile leaves a bit to be desired, especially in the blacks.)

I haven't had that issue. Are you unable to generate the profile (what SW do you use?), or unable to install it, or unable to then select it? Three different possible problems. And are you using the latest rev of your profiling SW?

I've used both Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS. Latest versions. (1.33, and 3,8.9.3 respectively. Argyll CMS 3.3.0.)

Both appear to detect the monitor as sRGB. (Which probably means that it isn't being detected at all. I believe sRGB is the default.) The issue didn't appear under 23H2, with the same hardware and monitor gamut settings.

I haven't validated the resulting limited-gamut ICC profiles. They may be OK, within their limits.

If I hadn't checked with the DisplayCal "Profile info" tool, I don't know when I would have noticed the issue. Maybe that means I shouldn't care. (Dammit, though, I paid for a monitor that goes wider than Adobe RGB.)

I've been in touch with Calibrite support. If what I was told is to be believed, their developers hadn't begun to work 24H2 (as of 13 November). They must have very few developers, if they're not staying ahead of Win 11 releases.

I also contacted MS support. I was told they are aware of the issue. However, it was just the first line outsourced support, so perhaps they were just trying to get rid of me.

As far as I know, neither Calibrite nor Microsoft has acknowledged the bug anywhere on the Web.

The issue also appears to affect my secondary desktop PC, also on 24H2.

Why don't you just load the profile you want to use with the Color Management Control Panel? It will remember your selection every time you reboot.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Decision made. I reviewed my requirements and the monitors available again.

I also found a recent review of the LG 32UP83-W where the user measured the monitors out of box gama at 2.23 with a 2.2 target. The display has quite a few user accessible calibration settings including selectable gama rgb colour an dhue adjustments, so it seems to be on par with the Asus ProArt, with higher sdr brightness.

I don't do pro level colour grading and that sort of thing, so have no need for the clamped srgb setting and some of the other additional features of the ProArt.

As Good as the Alienware is, I'll go with the LG and see how oled develops over the next few years.

Perhaps too much agonizing, but I do fully understand the options and trade offs now.

 

[Chris Noble]

Decision made. I reviewed my requirements and the monitors available again.

I also found a recent review of the LG 32UP83-W where the user measured the monitors out of box gama at 2.23 with a 2.2 target. The display has quite a few user accessible calibration settings including selectable gama rgb colour an dhue adjustments, so it seems to be on par with the Asus ProArt, with higher sdr brightness.

I don't do pro level colour grading and that sort of thing, so have no need for the clamped srgb setting and some of the other additional features of the ProArt.

As Good as the Alienware is, I'll go with the LG and see how oled develops over the next few years.

Perhaps too much agonizing, but I do fully understand the options and trade offs now.

Buyers often agonize over small differences in performance, that can be undetectable without a side-by-side comparison.

Don't overlook other important factors: monitor adjustability, available connectors, surface reflectivity (shiny, mat or in-between), how hot the monitor runs.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Decision made. I reviewed my requirements and the monitors available again.

I also found a recent review of the LG 32UP83-W where the user measured the monitors out of box gama at 2.23 with a 2.2 target. The display has quite a few user accessible calibration settings including selectable gama rgb colour an dhue adjustments, so it seems to be on par with the Asus ProArt, with higher sdr brightness.

I don't do pro level colour grading and that sort of thing, so have no need for the clamped srgb setting and some of the other additional features of the ProArt.

As Good as the Alienware is, I'll go with the LG and see how oled develops over the next few years.

Perhaps too much agonizing, but I do fully understand the options and trade offs now.

Buyers often agonize over small differences in performance, that can be undetectable without a side-by-side comparison.

Don't overlook other important factors: monitor adjustability, available connectors, surface reflectivity (shiny, mat or in-between), how hot the monitor runs.

It would be nice to be able to do a side by side comparison. The Alienware OLED was waaaay better than any other monitor on display at the Best Buy.

I just decided that, with burn in for OLEDs being unresolved, it was not worth the risk for the extra money.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Almost forgot. Thanks to everyone for your input. It was very helpful.

 

[CAcreeks]

Decision made. I reviewed my requirements and the monitors available again.

I also found a recent review of the LG 32UP83-W where the user measured the monitors out of box gama at 2.23 with a 2.2 target. The display has quite a few user accessible calibration settings including selectable gama rgb colour an dhue adjustments, so it seems to be on par with the Asus ProArt, with higher sdr brightness.

Nothing wrong with the LG 32UP83-W (W = white). You didn't mention 95% DCI-P3 gamut, which is pretty good. My early-Covid 27UN650 shows only 78%, so kudos to LG engineering. Compared to my laptop, it's easy to see reduced red and orange saturation.

I don't do pro level colour grading and that sort of thing, so have no need for the clamped srgb setting and some of the other additional features of the ProArt.

I doubt the LG 32UP83 covers as much AdobeRGB gamut as the ProArt monitors, but that might not matter to you. Doesn't matter to me.

As Good as the Alienware is, I'll go with the LG and see how oled develops over the next few years.

Here are a couple snippets from the Rtings review that might reinforce your decision:

"Bright light worsens the picture quality and contrast."

"Programs don't render text well with the subpixel layout, so text clarity isn't as good as on other ultrawide displays. Windows ClearType doesn't improve the text clarity much."


weird subpixel layout

 

[BobKnDP]

(I'm still annoyed with Microsoft. I haven't been able to properly re-profile my monitor since I got Windows 11 24H2, due to what I assume is a bug in the OS. The manufacturer's ICC profile leaves a bit to be desired, especially in the blacks.)

I haven't had that issue. Are you unable to generate the profile (what SW do you use?), or unable to install it, or unable to then select it? Three different possible problems. And are you using the latest rev of your profiling SW?

I've used both Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS. Latest versions. (1.33, and 3,8.9.3 respectively. Argyll CMS 3.3.0.)

Both appear to detect the monitor as sRGB. (Which probably means that it isn't being detected at all. I believe sRGB is the default.) The issue didn't appear under 23H2, with the same hardware and monitor gamut settings.

I haven't validated the resulting limited-gamut ICC profiles. They may be OK, within their limits.

If I hadn't checked with the DisplayCal "Profile info" tool, I don't know when I would have noticed the issue. Maybe that means I shouldn't care. (Dammit, though, I paid for a monitor that goes wider than Adobe RGB.)

I've been in touch with Calibrite support. If what I was told is to be believed, their developers hadn't begun to work 24H2 (as of 13 November). They must have very few developers, if they're not staying ahead of Win 11 releases.

I also contacted MS support. I was told they are aware of the issue. However, it was just the first line outsourced support, so perhaps they were just trying to get rid of me.

As far as I know, neither Calibrite nor Microsoft has acknowledged the bug anywhere on the Web.

The issue also appears to affect my secondary desktop PC, also on 24H2.

Why don't you just load the profile you want to use with the Color Management Control Panel? It will remember your selection every time you reboot.

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

My complaint is that I can't properly re-profile the monitor.

I've adjusted the monitor's RGB settings, without noting the old settings, so using an old profile isn't a good option.

I've used the manufacturer's supplied ICC profile, which is wide gamut, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I re-ran DisplayCal last night. It appeared to make a profile with low residual errors. But only for sRGB.

 

[BobKnDP]

Looks like a good choice for the price.

The only gamut spec I see for it is DCI-P3. That implies good sRGB coverage, though.

Please let us know how you like it. (I predict it will be good.)

 

[Austinian]

Why don't you just load the profile you want to use with the Color Management Control Panel? It will remember your selection every time you reboot.

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

My complaint is that I can't properly re-profile the monitor.

I've adjusted the monitor's RGB settings, without noting the old settings, so using an old profile isn't a good option.

I've used the manufacturer's supplied ICC profile, which is wide gamut, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I re-ran DisplayCal last night. It appeared to make a profile with low residual errors. But only for sRGB.

Gotta spare drive? Maybe install Windows 10, install DisplayCAL on it, profile, copy .icc/.icm to USB flash drive, etc.

Download Windows 10

Then wipe the drive so EULA violation was only momentary.

 

[BobKnDP]

Why don't you just load the profile you want to use with the Color Management Control Panel? It will remember your selection every time you reboot.

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

My complaint is that I can't properly re-profile the monitor.

I've adjusted the monitor's RGB settings, without noting the old settings, so using an old profile isn't a good option.

I've used the manufacturer's supplied ICC profile, which is wide gamut, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.

I re-ran DisplayCal last night. It appeared to make a profile with low residual errors. But only for sRGB.

Gotta spare drive? Maybe install Windows 10, install DisplayCAL on it, profile, copy .icc/.icm to USB flash drive, etc.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Then wipe the drive so EULA violation was only momentary.

Windows 11 23H2 would work. I wouldn't need to go all the way back to 10.

Heck, I could image the drive, do a clean install of 23H2, generate a profile, then restore 24H2. Image in about 10 minutes, run the profile for less than 30 minutes, and restore the image in another 10 minutes. Whole schmeer, less than an hour. No EULA violations. I'd burn a fair number of write cycles of my primary SSD, but it has a 1200TB endurance, so I hope that'd be a non-issue.

I won't do that any time soon. It's less caution or laziness than stubbornness. The bug may not affect a large number of Windows users, but (IMHO) it shouldn't be present in a streetable OS version. Especially 2 months past release.

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

 

[Austinian]

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Hmmm...interesting idea. That makes me wonder if this has anything to do with MS's so-called "Automatic Color Management". I'll have to look into that later. Thanks for the thought.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Looks like a good choice for the price.

The only gamut spec I see for it is DCI-P3. That implies good sRGB coverage, though.

Please let us know how you like it. (I predict it will be good.)

That review I mentioned claimed a very good sRGB calibration out of the box. Outside of a few reliable sites, it can be hard to tell which reviewers are good and which are bogus, but the review, combined with the history of similar previous models bodes well.

I'll be sure to post back with impressions.

One thing I did not consider before clicking the buy button was how I'm going to handle audio for my setup.

My current desktop has two video outs. I use DVI to my current monitor and HDMI to my receiver which drives my projector and sound for both the monitor and projector. The receiver is rather old at this point, but still perfectly good, so I may end up doing manual swaps for those few occasions when I run the projector. The other option would be an hdmi splitter.

Hmm, hdcp. My receiver is 1.x and my current desktop is Win7. I'll have to connect the laptop to my receiver to see what happens with the connection.

 

[BobKnDP]

Looks like a good choice for the price.

The only gamut spec I see for it is DCI-P3. That implies good sRGB coverage, though.

Please let us know how you like it. (I predict it will be good.)

That review I mentioned claimed a very good sRGB calibration out of the box. Outside of a few reliable sites, it can be hard to tell which reviewers are good and which are bogus, but the review, combined with the history of similar previous models bodes well.

I'll be sure to post back with impressions.

One thing I did not consider before clicking the buy button was how I'm going to handle audio for my setup.

My current desktop has two video outs. I use DVI to my current monitor and HDMI to my receiver which drives my projector and sound for both the monitor and projector. The receiver is rather old at this point, but still perfectly good, so I may end up doing manual swaps for those few occasions when I run the projector. The other option would be an hdmi splitter.

Hmm, hdcp. My receiver is 1.x and my current desktop is Win7. I'll have to connect the laptop to my receiver to see what happens with the connection.

In extremis, you may be able to use a converter/adapter if there is a compatibility issue between the new PC and the old receiver.

Not free, but less expensive than a new receiver.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Looks like hdmi is fully backward compatible, but a splitter won't do because I need two different resolutions depending on the connection. A USB C dock of some sort will probably work and allow me to output to both sources at the same time as I do with my current setup.

Something with usb and network passthrough should do the trick.

 

[BobKnDP]

Looks like hdmi is fully backward compatible, but a splitter won't do because I need two different resolutions depending on the connection. A USB C dock of some sort will probably work and allow me to output to both sources at the same time as I do with my current setup.

Something with usb and network passthrough should do the trick.

I admit that I don't know when HDCP 2.X would be invoked in a PC environment.

For home video, it's used with UHD disks. I don't even know if it's required for UHD (sometimes called 4k) streaming content. All of my AV equipment is HDCP 2.2 or better.

 

[CompleteUtterNonsense]

Looks like 2.2 is required for 4K content, like my new monitor. 1.4 is limited to FHD. If it is fully backward compatible I should be able to have two output streams at different scales.

The docks we use at work can do this but they are created by the same manufacturer with full compatibility in mind. I have limited experience with third party docks. I wonder if I still have one of those laying about in the IT room at work that I can use to test.

 

[BobKnDP]

(snip)

An admission: I don't know that it's a bug. It may be a deliberate change in 11 that breaks the ability of Calibrite Profiler and DisplayCal/Argyll CMS to properly detect the monitor's characteristics. Calibrite hasn't caught up with 24H2 yet, and Argyll is open source.

Eureka!

It's not a bug, it's a feature.

There's a system setting (system > display > color management) "Automatically manage color for apps". It was turned on.

When I turned it off, DisplayCalArgyll CMS functioned as before. 100% coverage sRGB, 99.99% Adobe RGB, 96.75% DCI-P3.

It's not what I'd call intuitively obvious. I got a hint from a fairly unclearly written (IMHO) link in another forum.

Windows 11 24H2 Update: AMD Users Face Color Profile Challenges | Windows Forum

I'll have to check whether the issue has anything to do with AMD CPUs. (I have one on this system. Other PC, Intel Gen13.)