Need a better camera for shiny still life objects?

[igolaft8]

I need to preface this post by saying I am NOT an experienced photographer by any stretch. Most of my previous shooting has been point and shoot in Auto mode until recently trying to learn more control in manual modes. My camera is an older Canon XSi EOS Rebel that I purchased new many years ago. I only use it for one purpose, to photograph high gloss guitars at 5’ to 15’ away. I have a temporary studio set up with two white muslin sides, a white muslin back drop and black muslin behind me. Two adjustable LED soft light boxes for lighting. I have used 4 different Canon lenses; 50mm prime, 18-55, 100 macro and 70-300. All shooting has been done with ISO 100. Using TV, AV and Manual modes.

All lenses produce the same results. All of my pictures are fuzzy, blurry and out of focus when I enlarge the pictures 50-100%. I’ve used TV, AV and M modes. I am pretty good at controlling the color accuracy and brightness. All shooting is done in RAW + jpg. I am using a tripod with a two second timer and also have used a remote timer. I’ve tried a single focus dot and multiple focus dots and it makes no difference. I’ve tried manual focus and auto focus. All of the above produces the same results.



My friend took pictures with his Sony RX10IV and I could clearly see wood grain when enlarging to 200%. I can see blurry news at 50% with my camera. Am I asking too much of my camera, is it my lack of skills or could the camera itself have issues and it’s time to upgrade? Please share your ideas or tips. Thank you…

 

[NateNZ]

Hello igolaft8, welcome to DPReview.

I'm not an expert myself, and I am not familiar with Canon, but I have a couple of thoughts.

Firstly, what shutter speeds are you typically using? I know some DSLRs suffer from "shutter shock" (motion blur introduced by the vibration of the mechanical shutter) below a certain speed, around 1/200 I think.

Secondly, what is the quality of your lenses? And are they clean inside and out?

Thirdly, what ISOs are you typically shooting at? I doubt this to be your problem considering your lighting setup though.

Would you mind posting some sample pictures (with EXIF data if possible), so others on here can have a look and hopefully diagnose your problem?

All the best

Nathan

 

[Leonard Migliore]

Without seeing an actual photograph, I can only make wild guesses. Since you're getting poor results from several lenses, some of them good ones, it's not a lens problem. Since you're shooting with a tripod and mirror delay, it's almost certainly not camera shake. What's left is that maybe the focus is off. You could have a mismatch between the autofocus and the actual focal plane. Does your camera have live view? Try focusing with that. Are you stopping the lens down too far? If you're shooting at f/22, you will get blurring from diffraction.

 

[igolaft8]

Hello igolaft8, welcome to DPReview.

I'm not an expert myself, and I am not familiar with Canon, but I have a couple of thoughts.

Firstly, what shutter speeds are you typically using? I know some DSLRs suffer from "shutter shock" (motion blur introduced by the vibration of the mechanical shutter) below a certain speed, around 1/200 I think.

Secondly, what is the quality of your lenses? And are they clean inside and out?

Thirdly, what ISOs are you typically shooting at? I doubt this to be your problem considering your lighting setup though.

Would you mind posting some sample pictures (with EXIF data if possible), so others on here can have a look and hopefully diagnose your problem?

All the best

Nathan

Thanks for the welcome Nathan. I’m using ISO 100. What is EXIF data?

I’m using genuine Canon lenses that are very clean on both ends. I have never opened up or cleaned a lens inside???

I’ll try to post an image tomorrow. Since I am new here I am not sure I can post images yet but I can save to IMGR and post a link from there. It will probably be tomorrow though.

 

[igolaft8]

Without seeing an actual photograph, I can only make wild guesses. Since you're getting poor results from several lenses, some of them good ones, it's not a lens problem. Since you're shooting with a tripod and mirror delay, it's almost certainly not camera shake. What's left is that maybe the focus is off. You could have a mismatch between the autofocus and the actual focal plane. Does your camera have live view? Try focusing with that. Are you stopping the lens down too far? If you're shooting at f/22, you will get blurring from diffraction.

Here is a link to a few pictures I took yesterday. I can’t upload RAW images to IMGUR?

70mm, f/13, 13/10 sec, iso 100, 2848x 4272, 2.8 MP, 72 dpi, 24bit

100mm, f/2.8, 1/10 sec, iso 100, exp -0.3, 2848 x 4272, 2.5MB, 72 dpi, 24 bit

85mm, f/4, 1/6 sec, iso 100, exp 0, 2848 x 4272, 2.7 MB, 72 dpi, 24 bit.

I am not sure if the info ^ is helpful but that is what I see when I click file info?

 

[igolaft8]

Without seeing an actual photograph, I can only make wild guesses. Since you're getting poor results from several lenses, some of them good ones, it's not a lens problem. Since you're shooting with a tripod and mirror delay, it's almost certainly not camera shake. What's left is that maybe the focus is off. You could have a mismatch between the autofocus and the actual focal plane. Does your camera have live view? Try focusing with that. Are you stopping the lens down too far? If you're shooting at f/22, you will get blurring from diffraction.

I posted a reply with pictures but it has to be approved by a moderator???

 

[New Wrycuda]

Thanks for the welcome Nathan. I’m using ISO 100. What is EXIF data?

I’m using genuine Canon lenses that are very clean on both ends. I have never opened up or cleaned a lens inside???

I’ll try to post an image tomorrow. Since I am new here I am not sure I can post images yet but I can save to IMGR and post a link from there. It will probably be tomorrow though.

Firstly, I see that you mention the use of Manual mode. This usually produces poor results unless you know what you are doing. Your examples show wide variation of aperture setting for no good reason; try f/5.6.

Use second last tool on editing screen to insert jpeg images. A condensed EXIF will show shooting parameters at lower left. Google “EXIF” for full details.

Focussing issue as previously mentioned a likely problem.

 

[NateNZ]

Thanks for the welcome Nathan. I’m using ISO 100. What is EXIF data?

I’m using genuine Canon lenses that are very clean on both ends. I have never opened up or cleaned a lens inside???

I’ll try to post an image tomorrow. Since I am new here I am not sure I can post images yet but I can save to IMGR and post a link from there. It will probably be tomorrow though.

Thanks for the images. The mod approval is just because you're new here. After a few posts you'll be good to go as normal.

EXIF is basically just the details/exposure settings that you entered anyway, they're helpful so we have a full picture (no pun intended) of how you're shooting.

Yes, no need to worry about opening up a lens generally, just sometimes old lenses get fungus/dust inside but if there was enough there to spoil your images you'd probably spot it easily. (And in such cases for a high value lens, I think a camera service centre could open it up and clean inside, but that's not a worry here).

 

[NateNZ]

Here is a link to a few pictures I took yesterday. I can’t upload RAW images to IMGUR?

70mm, f/13, 13/10 sec, iso 100, 2848x 4272, 2.8 MP, 72 dpi, 24bit

Is there a typo in the shutter speed reading I've emphasised above? Is it supposed to be 1/10 sec, or could it have been 1/300?

(Edit: 1/300 doesn't exist lol, rather 1/320. But, my bad, it can't even be that unless you cranked the flash right up). Anyway...

A few suggestions:

I agree with New Wrycuda to try a consistent aperture setting, f5.6 or even up to f8.

This will increase your depth of field (DOF), but won't push you into diffraction territory. In your second photo the guitar neck is slightly out of focus due to the f2.8 shallow depth of field.

And as Leonard suggested, try focusing in live view with autofocus single point, single servo (not continuous) - if there's any focus miscalibration live view will eliminate that.

Finally, try raising the shutter speed as high as you can without greatly under exposing. I would aim for 1/200 sec if you can throw enough light on with your lighting setup. Don't be afraid to raise your ISO a few steps. It is an older camera but I think you would be quite alright pushing it up to ISO 400.

If you're in the mood to experiment, try each change separately so you can hopefully pin down your problem. Of course, it might be a combination of several factors, but either way I'll think you'll get it solved.

Let us know how you get on.

Nate

 

[UncleVanya]

Here is a link to a few pictures I took yesterday. I can’t upload RAW images to IMGUR?

70mm, f/13, 13/10 sec, iso 100, 2848x 4272, 2.8 MP, 72 dpi, 24bit

Not seeing exit in the actual file. When you took this - were you using a tripod?

Your camera is an apsc format sensor and shooting at f stops more than around f5.6-8 will result in some detail loss due to diffraction. So I would most certainly lower your f stop to around f5.6. I would also use a tripod if you have one, or increase the ISO to allow higher shutter speeds (at least equal to the focal length you use if not more - so with the 85mm lens, you would use at least 1/85th seconds or more likely 1/100 or 1/125. )

I will also suggest looking into the details of that camera. Some DSLR’s allow you to fine tune the autofocus. But perhaps more useful to start by using live view in contrast detection mode which has fewer focusing errors for this type of shot. It’s slower to focus and it is only village on that camera if you set it up. Read this article/review and the details of live view: https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XSI/XSIA.HTM essentially you don’t want it set to quick.

100mm, f/2.8, 1/10 sec, iso 100, exp -0.3, 2848 x 4272, 2.5MB, 72 dpi, 24 bit

The shutter speed is probably too low here if not using a tripod. It’s possible even with a tripod to end up with some blur from shutter shock but that’s less of a concern with a tripod as you can typically engage your self timer to reduce mirror influence on the shake and the live view I mentioned would also help.

I am not sure if the info ^ is helpful but that is what I see when I click file info?

it would be better to take a file right out of camera and upload here. That will leave the complete EXIF intact.

Another factor is the enlarging to view. The friends cabers has a 20mp sensor. It will enlarge easier with less loss of detail on screen; but what is the intended use? Will these be online? Printed? At what size or resolution?

 

[igolaft8]

Here is a link to a few pictures I took yesterday. I can’t upload RAW images to IMGUR?

70mm, f/13, 13/10 sec, iso 100, 2848x 4272, 2.8 MP, 72 dpi, 24bit

Is there a typo in the shutter speed reading I've emphasised above? Is it supposed to be 1/10 sec, or could it have been 1/300?

(Edit: 1/300 doesn't exist lol, rather 1/320. But, my bad, it can't even be that unless you cranked the flash right up). Anyway...

Nate

Hi Nate. Here is the info copied from my file:

 

[UncleVanya]

13/10 is another way of saying 1.3 seconds. Another very long exposure.

 

[Leonard Migliore]

All of these look way out of focus. I don't see any motion blur. Do all the pictures from that camera look like this?

Have you tried manually focusing using live view and magnifying the image? That's right off the sensor and should work.

Also, hardly any site accepts raw images. They all want jpgs. You can upload directly to DPReview using the second icon from the right when you're posting. That will retain the file's EXIF data unless you have used some strange route to make the jpg. That way, the image data will be visible to anyone by hovering their mouse over the image.

 

[New Wrycuda]

All of these look way out of focus. I don't see any motion blur. Do all the pictures from that camera look like this?

Have you tried manually focusing using live view and magnifying the image? That's right off the sensor and should work.

It might help to determine best focus if a printed target (perhaps ISO 12233) was affixed to the otherwise fairly featureless guitar. Check the results and remove the target for the real shot.

Need to use MF so that camera doesn’t disturb the “target” setting.

 

[Leonard Migliore]

Are you using stabilized lenses? Those tend to drift when you use them on a tripod, especially with long exposures. It's something you can turn off.

 

[NateNZ]

Hi Nate. Here is the info copied from my file:

Thanks igolaft8. I get it now that UncleVanya explained, I was taken aback by the novel notation.

 

[igolaft8]

Well I got tired of trying to figure it out and putting dents in the wall with my flat head. I went to a camera store today and bought a R7 and will put it behind me. Thanks to everyone for your advice and help.

 

[NateNZ]

Ah, enjoy your new camera. That's a neat machine from what I've heard.

Nathan

 

[New Wrycuda]

Let’s hope the new camera does the trick.

Just for kicks, I hung my guitar on the fence and took a hand-held shot with my cheapest camera (on Advanced Auto).

Zooming in will show wood-grain detail.

Lighting was overcast daylight.

The dark centre-line helped with focus.

 

[Michael Fryd]

Well I got tired of trying to figure it out and putting dents in the wall with my flat head. I went to a camera store today and bought a R7 and will put it behind me. Thanks to everyone for your advice and help.

You might want to buy the book Light, Science & Magic, Proper lighting is critical to getting good shots of highly reflective subjects.

Your previous camera should have been able to produce very good images. If it wasn’t, that suggests something is amiss with technique.