MTF maybe 2x better than reported?

pretty much exactly what it looked like in life.
It was beautiful. Bright sunny day, flowers everywhere.

The Canon may be a much better camera than the E-10,
but one thing you can't pick on is the color rendition of
the E-10. Not legitamately at least :)
 
The first shot is really nice, the second one is noisy and the colors seems to be off. I am sure E-10 gives good photos, but I have heard that it is difficult to get it (i.e. the constraint is pretty large on what shutter speed to use etc.)

By default, 10D colors will look pretty bland, because i don't think the normal mode in Canon does any type of post processing. If you set it to "NORMAL" saturation and "NORMAL" contrast, you'll end up with a fairly flat image. The good news is, you can adjust it alot and it'll still be noise free. Since we all know you can tweak colors in photoshop, the important thing (to me) for a camera's image quality is NOISE, and ease of adjustments without introducing noise. Crank up +1 on both, and you'll get better photos (however, i typically adjust them in photoshop, mainly only on saturation levels and kept contrast as is, and i convert the images with the right "tone" (white balance)) D30 however, have vivid colors after the conversion, but leaves you little room to adjust later.

I'll have to say, if E-1 images can be adjusted the same way 10D's images could (or better, as they claimed), i'll be very very impressed. I mean, if you can adjust the contrast/saturation/etc with th wide latitude that 10D has and not introduce noise at ISO 100, it'll be a camera to reckon with. Also, if it truly have more sampling points in HIGHLIGHTS (i.e. take a 1/2 - 1 stop overexposed photo and adjust it down), then it'll be truly revolutionary. But as far I can tell with E-10/E-20, there really isn't anything "special" about the colors they produce compared to the slew of DSLR out there currently. In fact, the noise level on them is comparable to consumer cameras such as G2 or F717.
 
The problem with the shot is that the color is over-saturated and the details are lost (perhaps that's a technical problem in the photograph process and not the camera), so i have nothing to judge on.

Here's one in bright sunlight (without polarizer), 50 mm II F1.8 shot at F1.8 (supposed to be a "soft" lens at that aperature) and only the little flower is in focus. The photo is sharpened via BreezeBrowser as it converts it to web.


pretty much exactly what it looked like in life.
It was beautiful. Bright sunny day, flowers everywhere.

The Canon may be a much better camera than the E-10,
but one thing you can't pick on is the color rendition of
the E-10. Not legitamately at least :)
 
Hi Tony
The first shot is really nice, the second one is noisy and the
colors seems to be off.
LOL - I can see the cat and chicken from where I am, and I can assure you that they're okay.
I am sure E-10 gives good photos, but I
have heard that it is difficult to get it (i.e. the constraint is
pretty large on what shutter speed to use etc.)
Noise was always the problem - acknowledged, I think, by everyone. Colours was not.
By default, 10D colors will look pretty bland, because i don't
think the normal mode in Canon does any type of post processing.
If you set it to "NORMAL" saturation and "NORMAL" contrast, you'll
end up with a fairly flat image. The good news is, you can adjust
it alot and it'll still be noise free. Since we all know you can
tweak colors in photoshop, the important thing (to me) for a
camera's image quality is NOISE, and ease of adjustments without
introducing noise. Crank up +1 on both, and you'll get better
photos (however, i typically adjust them in photoshop, mainly only
on saturation levels and kept contrast as is, and i convert the
images with the right "tone" (white balance)) D30 however, have
vivid colors after the conversion, but leaves you little room to
adjust later.
Well, let's just agree that colours are, on the whole, a matter of taste (when not obviously wrong).
I'll have to say, if E-1 images can be adjusted the same way 10D's
images could (or better, as they claimed),
They are talking about twice the dynamic range, and almost no noise - from what I hear from users who've tried a pre-production model, this would appear to be true.

So it certainly should be possible - if it's not, then they're in trouble!
i'll be very very
impressed. I mean, if you can adjust the contrast/saturation/etc
with th wide latitude that 10D has and not introduce noise at ISO
100, it'll be a camera to reckon with. Also, if it truly have more
sampling points in HIGHLIGHTS (i.e. take a 1/2 - 1 stop overexposed
photo and adjust it down), then it'll be truly revolutionary. But
as far I can tell with E-10/E-20, there really isn't anything
"special" about the colors they produce compared to the slew of
DSLR out there currently. In fact, the noise level on them is
comparable to consumer cameras such as G2 or F717.
Certainly as far as noise is concerned - a function of the small CCD, (and 3 year old technology indeed) I'll stick to my contention that the colours are excellent, though (whilst agreeing that the noise was not!).. But I really don't think that you can use the Exx series as a yardstick for the E1 - the body may be similar, but nothing else is.

kind regards
jono slack

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Unless the ccd can use it it is useless. I recall the hype Olympus
pulled over ED glass in the Exx: it was functionally useless
according a lens designer who studied their patent...
True, but the CCD should be able to handle it: the upper limit on the resolution of the E-1's sensor with its 6.8 micron photo-sites is the Nyquist frequency of about 73lp/mm, so it should be able to handle up to 60lp/mm fairly well.

By the way, the MTF graphs for the E-series 14-54mm lens at 60lp/mm seem to be overall as good as or better than the 30lp/mm performance for Canon's advanced amateur zooms (24-85, 28-135IS), and at least close to that of the 24-70. (I ignored the parts more than 15mm from center since it is irrelevant to the 10D). To judge sharpness with the 10D, the MTF of the Canon lenses should be compared instead at about 50lp/mm where it is presumably distinctly worse than the published 30lp/mm data.

Those Olympus graphs are probably computed from designs, not measured from actual lenses (same for Canon's graphs), but if that comparison holds up in real world performance, the E-1 with its standard lens could have more sharpness than any of the cropping DSLR's (10D, D100, etc.) used with anything less than the very best 35mm zoom lenses, which cost a lot more and still leave you needing two lenses to cover the core moderate wide to moderate tele range covered by the 14-54.

It is evidence like this that makes me believe that DSLR's with lenses adapted to their sensor sizes will eventually replace the transitional "cropping" models; what mix of 35mm format, Nikon's DX format and 4/3, I am far less sure, but I am not optimistic about 35mm format ever getting down to the mid-priced amateur range.
 
The photo i took wasn't a macro glass, FYI, and I didn't crop :-)

Besides, this is no counter. The insect looks fake (very metallic
colors, similar to many consumer digicams). it lack soul.
Impressive as a photographer's feat, but quality wise it lacked
something that most DSLR can produce. Besides, my photo is much
more interesting than just a macro photo of an insect.
Hahahaha! The C750 has a 10x zoom lens, not something that you'd expect to have amazing macro performance since it hasn't a dedicated macro lens. The only thing that the photographer did to help his cause was to enlist the help of a screw on doublet, certainly not the best way to obtain the absolute best closeup performance.

It's funny how you like to shift your arguments when you realise you don't have a point. Your original post was:

"Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast. It's true for medium format versus 35 mm, it'll be true for 10D versus smaller glass SLR's.

Beat this with your Olympus E-10: " and you then proceeded to attempt to prove the point with your desperately low contrast picture.

Good grief, when someone shows you that you're wrong (those closeups ARE contrastier and they were taken a camera with waaaaaaaayy smaller glass than your 50mm prime), even to the extent of taking you up on YOUR ludicrous proposition in the first place ("Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast.), you just weasel your way to another point!

You're definitely more entertaining than "Whose Line Is It Anyway?" tonight!

Thanks for the good laugh.
 
Why are you glad? The photo i posted shows far more detail even at F1.8 aperature than your photo :)
 
That's funny -- why is everyone using the E-10/E-20 as a yard stick for the E-1 then? :-)
Certainly as far as noise is concerned - a function of the small
CCD, (and 3 year old technology indeed) I'll stick to my contention
that the colours are excellent, though (whilst agreeing that the
noise was not!).. But I really don't think that you can use the Exx
series as a yardstick for the E1 - the body may be similar, but
nothing else is.

kind regards
jono slack

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 
that second photo you posted is hopeless.
There is no detail in "out of focus" pictures.
I know you used F1.8, but c'mon, where is the
detail in something that is beyond the DOF?

Besides, we are arguing about color, remember?
That second shot does not show good color either.

So far in what you've shown me, my E-10's color rendition
is much better.

Regards
Joe
 
I can understand why you're so pent up, living in a place like Singapore.... but did you notice that he took it with FLASH? :-) certainly not natural light.

And you use someone else's photo, not your own. You have no idea how much manipulation the photograph has already gone under, and hence it's not a valid comparison.
The photo i took wasn't a macro glass, FYI, and I didn't crop :-)

Besides, this is no counter. The insect looks fake (very metallic
colors, similar to many consumer digicams). it lack soul.
Impressive as a photographer's feat, but quality wise it lacked
something that most DSLR can produce. Besides, my photo is much
more interesting than just a macro photo of an insect.
Hahahaha! The C750 has a 10x zoom lens, not something that you'd
expect to have amazing macro performance since it hasn't a
dedicated macro lens. The only thing that the photographer did to
help his cause was to enlist the help of a screw on doublet,
certainly not the best way to obtain the absolute best closeup
performance.

It's funny how you like to shift your arguments when you realise
you don't have a point. Your original post was:

"Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast. It's
true for medium format versus 35 mm, it'll be true for 10D versus
smaller glass SLR's.
Beat this with your Olympus E-10: " and you then proceeded to
attempt to prove the point with your desperately low contrast
picture.

Good grief, when someone shows you that you're wrong (those
closeups ARE contrastier and they were taken a camera with
waaaaaaaayy smaller glass than your 50mm prime), even to the extent
of taking you up on YOUR ludicrous proposition in the first place
("Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast.), you
just weasel your way to another point!

You're definitely more entertaining than "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
tonight!

Thanks for the good laugh.
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 
BTW, the macro shots do not show much contrast, the colors are pretty bland. Even the Canon G2 does better. Check around in the Fred MIranda's website and see for yourself.
The photo i took wasn't a macro glass, FYI, and I didn't crop :-)

Besides, this is no counter. The insect looks fake (very metallic
colors, similar to many consumer digicams). it lack soul.
Impressive as a photographer's feat, but quality wise it lacked
something that most DSLR can produce. Besides, my photo is much
more interesting than just a macro photo of an insect.
Hahahaha! The C750 has a 10x zoom lens, not something that you'd
expect to have amazing macro performance since it hasn't a
dedicated macro lens. The only thing that the photographer did to
help his cause was to enlist the help of a screw on doublet,
certainly not the best way to obtain the absolute best closeup
performance.

It's funny how you like to shift your arguments when you realise
you don't have a point. Your original post was:

"Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast. It's
true for medium format versus 35 mm, it'll be true for 10D versus
smaller glass SLR's.
Beat this with your Olympus E-10: " and you then proceeded to
attempt to prove the point with your desperately low contrast
picture.

Good grief, when someone shows you that you're wrong (those
closeups ARE contrastier and they were taken a camera with
waaaaaaaayy smaller glass than your 50mm prime), even to the extent
of taking you up on YOUR ludicrous proposition in the first place
("Bigger glass = more light through the lens = more contrast.), you
just weasel your way to another point!

You're definitely more entertaining than "Whose Line Is It Anyway?"
tonight!

Thanks for the good laugh.
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 
Give me a few names?

lot's of people liked the Exx - for lots of reasons (although probably none of them were to do with noise or write times ;-).

kind regards
jono slack
Certainly as far as noise is concerned - a function of the small
CCD, (and 3 year old technology indeed) I'll stick to my contention
that the colours are excellent, though (whilst agreeing that the
noise was not!).. But I really don't think that you can use the Exx
series as a yardstick for the E1 - the body may be similar, but
nothing else is.

kind regards
jono slack

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
 
Just read the threads about supposedly E-1's image quality. Everyone is comparing it as "better than E-20". There are plenty of examples, Tan to name as one pentup guy bent on the E-20.

I'll agree that compared to a Sony F707, E-20 will blow itout of water (it also has a much better lens than the Carl Zeiss stuff), but people were comparing it to current crop of DSLR's.... i find that to be humorous.
lot's of people liked the Exx - for lots of reasons (although
probably none of them were to do with noise or write times ;-).

kind regards
jono slack
Certainly as far as noise is concerned - a function of the small
CCD, (and 3 year old technology indeed) I'll stick to my contention
that the colours are excellent, though (whilst agreeing that the
noise was not!).. But I really don't think that you can use the Exx
series as a yardstick for the E1 - the body may be similar, but
nothing else is.

kind regards
jono slack

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 
The DETAILS is in the little FLOWER.

The second flower IS in focus (the stems are, the front of the flower is not), the details are in there.

Why, must everything look like a digicam with DOF = infinity?

OK, here are more:







A little more DOF for those DOF-challenged folks!
that second photo you posted is hopeless.
There is no detail in "out of focus" pictures.
I know you used F1.8, but c'mon, where is the
detail in something that is beyond the DOF?

Besides, we are arguing about color, remember?
That second shot does not show good color either.

So far in what you've shown me, my E-10's color rendition
is much better.

Regards
Joe
--
Gallery: http://violin.deviantart.com/gallery
 

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