Iso question with flash.

[AWZ1287]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

 

[Vlasty]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[AWZ1287]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[AWZ1287]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[Vlasty]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[AWZ1287]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/

I was in AV mode, I set the aperture and was trying to bump the iso to get a fast enough speed.

Forget to mention, The reason I was doing it this way was because I was moving following my daughter around and the lighting was changing.

Hmm.

That sounds a bit strange. I have used the 6D and have not seen this behavior before, nor with my M cameras. I would try the same thing in full manual mode. Ill try to repeat this with your settings and my 430RT on the M5.

--
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76058747@N07/

I don't believe I had the problem with my 7D or 7dii, I could be wrong, like I said I really didn't use the external flash much besides in controled environments when I had the flash and camera in manual. But I will test it, when I get home. I will also test the M mode.

 

[Hans van Eijsden]

Don't forget to set your flash in high sync mode (HSS) if you want to use shutter speeds faster than 1/200s, else your camera will lower the ISO (safety shift).

 

[Vlasty]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[AWZ1287]

Don't forget to set your flash in high sync mode (HSS) if you want to use shutter speeds faster than 1/200s, else your camera will lower the ISO (safety shift).

Thanks, I was able to get the Shutter up. I had the flash set to hss, and ettl. I tried both bounced and direct.

I am able to get the iso to move.

It just keeps resetting back to 400, after each shot or when it re meters. When I do change the iso the Shutter does go up.

What I was trying to do, was have the shutter adjust for the changes in the lighting. Being I can't use auto iso with flash, I manually set it to keep the Shutter in a good range.

 

[AWZ1287]

I was experimenting with my 5d mark iv and my 430ex ii. I know that canon doesn't allow auto iso with the flash and defaults to iso 400.

In the past I have been a big fan of natural light, so I haven't used an external flash much. I never got the look right. I would sometimes use the built in flash as a fill flash.

I am trying to manually set the iso, but it keeps returning to 400 right after the shot or if I re-meter.

I wanted to bump the iso to 640. I had high speed sync on. I was trying to get a fast enough speed to prevent motion blur, bounced off the ceiling. I was in AV mode.

The photo looked good at iso 640.

Is there a way to make the iso stay where I manually set it?

I assume you are shooting in M mode?

 

[Jon555]

In Av mode the camera will set the exposure for the ambient lighting conditions and use the flash as fill-flash. So if the scene meters as 1/8th @ f2.8 that's what you'll get with the flash on or off. When the flash is on it will fire to light a presumed foreground subject. I guess you have a minimum shutter speed set somewhere and the ISO is bumping to meet that.

 

[S Castle]

In Av mode the camera will set the exposure for the ambient lighting conditions and use the flash as fill-flash. So if the scene meters as 1/8th @ f2.8 that's what you'll get with the flash on or off. When the flash is on it will fire to light a presumed foreground subject. I guess you have a minimum shutter speed set somewhere and the ISO is bumping to meet that.

Exactly. This behavior in Av is why in such situations I usually put the flash in ETTL and the camera in M, applying FEC as necessary. You may wind up with the flash at full power, though, and the only was to make things lighter is wider aperture or higher ISO, the shutter having no effect on the light from flash if you are below the max sync speed (neglecting HSS - that is a whole other issue).

If using flash Av will often not do what you want.

--
Shane

 

[Jon555]

I should have included this in my original message:

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index2.html#confusion

For photographing kids using P (with manual or auto ISO) and the flash in ETTL is probably as good as anything until you get used to Canon's flash. Just in manual ISO if it's dark then turn the ISO up if you don't want a black background.

 

[AWZ1287]

Thanks for the help.

I have been testing out different settings. I am getting pretty good results, so far, even with standard sync set to 1/200, f2.8, iso 400. I am able to freeze some slower movement, if I time it right when she slows down. At full running I still get some blur.

I don't know if they updated the flash metering or something. But I find I am getting better results, more accurate metering, and a more natural look with the 5Div.

With my previous cameras, I always got an over exposed look with a bright unnatural light. I could tell I had the flash on right way, upon reviewing the photos. That was what turned me off of using the flash and sticking with natural light sources; Unless I had my makeshift studio set up with my speedlite softboxs.

 

[AWZ1287]

Here are a couple shots I took last night, with only minor tweaking, on my tablet, with instagram. There is slight compression because of instagram. I can post the originals later I don't have them on my phone.

Let me know how they look.

 

[mablacksv]

Here are a couple shots I took last night, with only minor tweaking, on my tablet, with instagram. There is slight compression because of instagram. I can post the originals later I don't have them on my phone.

Let me know how they look.

These look good to me. Remember you have two separate timings that will freeze motion when using normal (non-HSS) flash. One is the shutter speed which will only freeze motion caused by Ambient light. The other is flash duration. In manual mode, using a higher ISO can actually cause more motion blur, since it allows ambient light to be more of a factor in the exposure. If you are properly exposed for ambient light and only using fill flash than your 1/200 shutter speed will show flash motion blur.

Now flash duration is always faster than the shutter sync speed (1/200 here). And usually a lot faster. So if you LOWER the ISO you will start freezing motion with your flash rather than the 1/200 shutter speed. The more you lower the ISO the better chance you have of freezing motion with the flash. The side effect is that the background will get darker the more you lower the ISO, but if your goals are to both properly expose and freeze your subjects motion than you have to accept a darkened background due to flash light falloff.

The best chance you have of getting consistent results is to set your camera in manual mode, shutter speed of 1/200 with your desired aperture. Use your ISO to adjust the balance between flash and ambient lighting, and the use flash exposure compensation (FEC) to increase or decrease the amount of light coming from the flash to correctly expose your subject.

John

 

[Zeee]

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=18223601

 

[rxb dc]

Here are a couple shots I took last night, with only minor tweaking, on my tablet, with instagram. There is slight compression because of instagram. I can post the originals later I don't have them on my phone.

Let me know how they look.

These look good to me. Remember you have two separate timings that will freeze motion when using normal (non-HSS) flash. One is the shutter speed which will only freeze motion caused by Ambient light. The other is flash duration. In manual mode, using a higher ISO can actually cause more motion blur, since it allows ambient light to be more of a factor in the exposure. If you are properly exposed for ambient light and only using fill flash than your 1/200 shutter speed will show flash motion blur.

Now flash duration is always faster than the shutter sync speed (1/200 here). And usually a lot faster. So if you LOWER the ISO you will start freezing motion with your flash rather than the 1/200 shutter speed. The more you lower the ISO the better chance you have of freezing motion with the flash. The side effect is that the background will get darker the more you lower the ISO, but if your goals are to both properly expose and freeze your subjects motion than you have to accept a darkened background due to flash light falloff.

The best chance you have of getting consistent results is to set your camera in manual mode, shutter speed of 1/200 with your desired aperture. Use your ISO to adjust the balance between flash and ambient lighting, and the use flash exposure compensation (FEC) to increase or decrease the amount of light coming from the flash to correctly expose your subject.

John

To add to what John said, i would also recommend Syl Arena's book on this subject.

 

[Zeee]

Here are a couple shots I took last night, with only minor tweaking, on my tablet, with instagram. There is slight compression because of instagram. I can post the originals later I don't have them on my phone.

Let me know how they look.

These look good to me. Remember you have two separate timings that will freeze motion when using normal (non-HSS) flash. One is the shutter speed which will only freeze motion caused by Ambient light. The other is flash duration. In manual mode, using a higher ISO can actually cause more motion blur, since it allows ambient light to be more of a factor in the exposure. If you are properly exposed for ambient light and only using fill flash than your 1/200 shutter speed will show flash motion blur.

Now flash duration is always faster than the shutter sync speed (1/200 here). And usually a lot faster. So if you LOWER the ISO you will start freezing motion with your flash rather than the 1/200 shutter speed. The more you lower the ISO the better chance you have of freezing motion with the flash. The side effect is that the background will get darker the more you lower the ISO, but if your goals are to both properly expose and freeze your subjects motion than you have to accept a darkened background due to flash light falloff.

The best chance you have of getting consistent results is to set your camera in manual mode, shutter speed of 1/200 with your desired aperture. Use your ISO to adjust the balance between flash and ambient lighting, and the use flash exposure compensation (FEC) to increase or decrease the amount of light coming from the flash to correctly expose your subject.

John

I pre focused and swept the camera while taking this shot to get this effect. the t-shirt as about 6 ft away and xmas tree about 12.

 

[mablacksv]

Here are a couple shots I took last night, with only minor tweaking, on my tablet, with instagram. There is slight compression because of instagram. I can post the originals later I don't have them on my phone.

Let me know how they look.

These look good to me. Remember you have two separate timings that will freeze motion when using normal (non-HSS) flash. One is the shutter speed which will only freeze motion caused by Ambient light. The other is flash duration. In manual mode, using a higher ISO can actually cause more motion blur, since it allows ambient light to be more of a factor in the exposure. If you are properly exposed for ambient light and only using fill flash than your 1/200 shutter speed will show flash motion blur.

Now flash duration is always faster than the shutter sync speed (1/200 here). And usually a lot faster. So if you LOWER the ISO you will start freezing motion with your flash rather than the 1/200 shutter speed. The more you lower the ISO the better chance you have of freezing motion with the flash. The side effect is that the background will get darker the more you lower the ISO, but if your goals are to both properly expose and freeze your subjects motion than you have to accept a darkened background due to flash light falloff.

The best chance you have of getting consistent results is to set your camera in manual mode, shutter speed of 1/200 with your desired aperture. Use your ISO to adjust the balance between flash and ambient lighting, and the use flash exposure compensation (FEC) to increase or decrease the amount of light coming from the flash to correctly expose your subject.

John

I pre focused and swept the camera while taking this shot to get this effect. the t-shirt as about 6 ft away and xmas tree about 12.

This technique is called "dragging the shutter". It can be used in sports as well:

Panning at 1/60sec to streak the background and blur the wheel spin and popping the flash to freeze the rider. You have to be pretty close (a few feet) to the subject for the flash to work in daylight. I've suceessfully used this technique shooting an Aikido match as well.