Imorality and the Dell error

[Bob325085]

All you've done is obtain an extraordinarily low price for
yourself, which is offset by higher prices for all the other
customers out there.

I'm not sure about this. I don't believe Dell will raise any of their prices to offset this. I think they have to keep their prices competetive and this will more likely cut into other Dell expenses or just come right off the profit. They are already extremely high priced on many of their "add ons", so raising those seems pretty unrealistic. And I'm sure the dollar loss from this Dell error isn't that much in thier big picture (i.e...I doubt they need to raise all their laptops $10 a piece for three months to recover). Of course, that still doesn't mean it won't have some negative affect within the company somewhere. Think of it this way, when wastewater (from sewers, storm drains, toilet flushes, shower drains, etc.) is treated, it is often times released right into the ocean though an outfall. The idea is that it will get diluted and the negative affect will be minimal due to the size difference between the volume of wastewater and the volume of the ocean. I would say this is probably not a small loss, but I doubt it will change the way Dell does business, except for maybe a more careful confirmation system.

Bobby

 

[Trace]

It is human nature to be greedy and to seek out the best deal possible, this is one of the driving forces behind a capitalistic economy. I think many of the people that took advantage of this error would have thought twice if the moral consequences were more significant. Since the error was made by a huge, highly profitable company like Dell it makes it that much easier to justify.

Of course I would never stoop to this level though

 

[albertwesker]

Rick's not imposing his morality on others nor did he claim he was
more perfect that anyone else. He simply offered justifiable
criticism of a widespread hypocracy.

Well by claiming the whole world operates on some "sub-standard" moral level does not qualify that?

You can walk your hypothetical tightrope all you want, but it's
clear when the price is a small fraction of what would be expected
that people are only trying to take advantage. It's perfectly
acceptable to view a 5% error differently than an 80% one and no
one has to draw the line in order to justify that view. You're
perspective is hardly interesting.

Well thanks for letting me know my perspective is hardly interesting enough for you to post another yet even more "hardly interesting" reply to it. Is it really that simple Craig? A hypothetical tightrope? Should I walk a reality tightrope being the 70-200 IS that almost EVERYONE was trying to get on? Was that any less acceptable , I would like you to tell me since you can't seem to see the tie between the two here? It's acceptable for me to get a SUBSTANTIAL discount on this lens, but with the 100-400 IS , it isn't?

Why is it "perfectly acceptable" to rationalize a 5% discount over an 80% one because that is "what one" expects to pay? So because I expect to pay a certain price, anything below the normal is taking advantage?

Of course, Dell has done exactly as you say leaving the greedy
hypocrites to whine amongst themselves.

This all really doesn't matter. Dell in all of its glory should have systems in place that alert them to errors such as this. Even if mistakes are made past placing orders, they can easily be CANCELLED and all of us disappointing human beings can go back to our caves.

Other then just conversation, people need to stop being so
sensitive to others business.

This kind of thinking is exactly what's wrong with people and, by
extension, America today. We've become so self-involved that we
give no consideration to the repercussions of our actions.

You seem to make alot of generalizations. What makes you so
perfect compared to the "rest of us" . Self-involved with what?
How do you even consider this to be taking advantage of Dell? They
have NOT even admitted to a pricing error or any type of error
whatsoever.

What's wrong is that people such as yourself feel the need to
impose their own moralities on others who may not share the same
boundaries as you so to speak. This is an internet forum. Who
cares? This issue really comes down to morality , and anybody can
argue the other side till they turn blue. I can see both sides ,
although my posts might seem to indicate that I wouldn't care about
getting the deal if I could , which isn't necessarily the truth.

You didn't address my issue of saying what if the price were $900,
$1000, $1100 but STILL a pricing error on Dell's part. Would you
think it's ok? It isn't the reality but it is much more gray then
let's say $200.00 where everybody is quick to tout ethics. How
many of you jumped on the 70-200 IS Dell deal , and are here now
spouting ethics when the reality is you missed out on clicking the
order button?

Rick, I admire your convictions . However, capitalism will still
go on. People will always look for the best deal for themselves,
not for a company.

It's weird, if I spend $1400.00 for this lens at B/H it's ok. If
I spend $1200.00 it's STILL ok because I got a good deal. Now
where does the dollar threshold have to cross before my ethics get
questioned? $200.00 is definiately making me a bad guy of "what's
wrong with society today". So ethics , have a certain dollar value
to reach before it becomes wrong?

All in all, really Dell can cancel the orders. SO BE IT! At least
those of you who tried get some for effort. If it is so
detrimental to society like you put it, Dell will just get rid of
these frivolous orders instead of even trying to deal with them.

 

[greentank]

Is it wrong for some people to try to exploit an OBVIOUS pricing error of a company? Not really - not in my opinion.

Is it wrong for these same people to feel entitled to something when the error is discovered by the company? Absolutely.

Every person discussing this issue here ad nauseum had no doubt this was an error. Nobody wasn't aware of what other quality retailer sell this product for.

You tried to cash in on a mistake - fine. No problem. But anybody who thinks they are ENTITLED to cash in on the mistake after it is caught are greedy idiots. If it were my store, I'd automatically cancel your order. If it were YOUR parent's store (imagine them as sole proprietors), would you tell them to fill all these orders, even though it was an honest mistake? I doubt it.

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

--
http://www.pbase.com/greentank
20D, 18-55, 17-40L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.4, 28-135 IS

 

[RobE]

...who complains about corporations shipping jobs overseas...

It is human nature to be greedy and to seek out the best deal
possible, this is one of the driving forces behind a capitalistic
economy. I think many of the people that took advantage of this
error would have thought twice if the moral consequences were more
significant. Since the error was made by a huge, highly profitable
company like Dell it makes it that much easier to justify.

Of course I would never stoop to this level though

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[RobE]

Welcome to America, land of the entitlement society.

Is it wrong for these same people to feel entitled to something
when the error is discovered by the company? Absolutely.

Every person discussing this issue here ad nauseum had no doubt
this was an error. Nobody wasn't aware of what other quality
retailer sell this product for.

You tried to cash in on a mistake - fine. No problem. But anybody
who thinks they are ENTITLED to cash in on the mistake after it is
caught are greedy idiots. If it were my store, I'd automatically
cancel your order. If it were YOUR parent's store (imagine them as
sole proprietors), would you tell them to fill all these orders,
even though it was an honest mistake? I doubt it.

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

--
http://www.pbase.com/greentank
20D, 18-55, 17-40L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.4, 28-135 IS

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[RobE]

Those dates mean little or nothing, and you know it

they obviously KNOW about the mistake now..so why they did not tell
me about it?

I can reasonably understand from this that there is no mistake, if
I was a customer not going to dpreview and not knowing about it.

If I had doubt that it was a pricing error to begin with..my doubts
would be gone with that new email.

You're assuming too much at this point.

It's all hearsay because Dell hasn't made an official statement.

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send
them to me via email instead! thanks.

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[EOSMan]

get upset about than a few people getting a deal on a lens.

I can understand how some would feel that it’s wrong and wouldn’t choose to take advantage of a too good to be true deal. But what I don’t understand is why it’s so important for you to prove to everyone else how wrong their actions are and how righteous yours are. Isn’t this like the Pharisees that stand on the corner and draw attention to their selves?

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

 

[noclue]

Dell does have more important things to deal with than us greedy SOB's.

My point was that morality has nothing to do with it.

It's all about business. If I was Dell, I'd send out a mass email canceling all the orders. Negotiating everyone's deal one-by-one isn't very good business in my opinion. Some people have been getting nothing, all the way to a guy at FM who reported they changed his order so that it now the status reads 100-400mm for $210.

I'm not sure it is good for business if you totatally disregard public relations.

I agree with you.

It takes two to tango.

Why hasn't Dell stepped up and done something definitive by
now?...............I think I know........they are a company in
business . They are not the Vatican. Business is buisness. They
are going to do what is best for their business". Consumers
should do what is best for themselves. It's not about morality, or
anything else.

It's a joint venture.

It's business, period.

they don't cancel, so not my fault.

Explain this with your moral..why Dell does not simply cancell all
these orders???

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send
them to me via email instead! thanks.

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[Jeff Warner]

Is this really that big of a deal?

get upset about than a few people getting a deal on a lens.

I can understand how some would feel that it’s wrong and wouldn’t
choose to take advantage of a too good to be true deal. But what I
don’t understand is why it’s so important for you to prove to
everyone else how wrong their actions are and how righteous yours
are. Isn’t this like the Pharisees that stand on the corner and
draw attention to their selves?

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

 

[Vernon Long]

You said Dell owned up to their mistake. Not to me. I have received five emais about my order. Not one mention of any mistake. No message to call them or anything.

You said we screwed Deii. Dell has over 1 Billion dollars in profit this year. Who did Dell screw. Call support and talk to someone who can't talk english for 3 hours and see who's getting screwed.
VL

 

[Rick246386]

To say F*CK IT to the camera world. LOTS of people have saved good
money with Dell on a daily basis, but if they have to deal with
this attitude and lack of understanding from a bunch of camera
freaks, I would not be surprised if they give up on the measly
profits that they already make........

Good point, John. Best Buy used to have a pretty good service contract available for PDAs. Unfortunately, so many people were using a loophole in the policy to upgrade to newer units that it forced them to abandon selling all PDAs. Once the profit is gone Dell will likely give up on the camera market, as well. Eliminating a good source of competition for the camera cartel only hurts us all.

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

 

[Rick246386]

Sorry sir, I don't believe anyone stole or is in the process of
stealing anything.

Knowingly taking advantage of a simple mistake or situation is immoral. Why do you think pawn shop operators have such a low perception in most people's minds?

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

 

[RobE]

You're right that this is a silly issue to debate morals/ethics over. I think what irks some people (myself at times as well) is that this issue is an example of systemic problems in the world/America/etc.

There is this "good vs. evil" undertone for "little guy/gal vs. the BIG CORPORATION" that fails to take into account what amounts to a [probable] human error on a single employee's part [entering the wrong part number].

get upset about than a few people getting a deal on a lens.

I can understand how some would feel that it’s wrong and wouldn’t
choose to take advantage of a too good to be true deal. But what I
don’t understand is why it’s so important for you to prove to
everyone else how wrong their actions are and how righteous yours
are. Isn’t this like the Pharisees that stand on the corner and
draw attention to their selves?

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[RobE]

And it remains to be seen if he will actually get a lens.

My point was that morality has nothing to do with it.

It's all about business. If I was Dell, I'd send out a mass email
canceling all the orders. Negotiating everyone's deal one-by-one
isn't very good business in my opinion. Some people have been
getting nothing, all the way to a guy at FM who reported they
changed his order so that it now the status reads 100-400mm for
$210.

I'm not sure it is good for business if you totatally disregard
public relations.

I agree with you.

It takes two to tango.

Why hasn't Dell stepped up and done something definitive by
now?...............I think I know........they are a company in
business . They are not the Vatican. Business is buisness. They
are going to do what is best for their business". Consumers
should do what is best for themselves. It's not about morality, or
anything else.

It's a joint venture.

It's business, period.

they don't cancel, so not my fault.

Explain this with your moral..why Dell does not simply cancell all
these orders???

I will get flamed for this I am sure, but I am ashamed of the
attitude of many posters on this forum with respect to the Dell
100-400 pricing error. It is quite clear that Dell made a mistake
and have owned up to this. They appear in some cases to have
offered $100 compensation for the disappointment, which I would see
as very generous. I can even see that it was a good idea to take
advantage of the pricing mistake. But to try to screw Dell, or any
other company or individual who appears to have made an honest
error, in the way that some posters claim to be doing, tells me a
lot about the morality of those involved. Perhaps those who placed
an order for multiple lenses at a price they must have known was a
mistake, would see this "stealing" as another victimless crime, or
perhaps no kind of crime at all. I know exactly how they would
react if they were being shafted over an innocent error they
themselves might have made at sometime in their lives.
And no, I am not some christian do-gooder freak with a
holy-er-than-thou perspective, just a brit who is right now
disappointed with our cousins accross the pond.

--
ken from the UK

--
------------------------------------------
this is elfe language from Lord of the ring:
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send
them to me via email instead! thanks.

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

 

[Rick246386]

Do you REALLY think this will have ANY effect on Dell's bottom
line?

So that makes it OK, huh? So long as you're only taking advantage of a big corporation with deep pockets I guess it's OK. Who do you think will make up the loss? Every subsequent Dell customer, that's who. The cost of this fiasco will just be spread out on other products and it may be a long time before we see any real bargains from Dell on digital camera gear. But so long as you get yours...

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

 

[EOSMan]

They need to make a profit in order to justify their existence.

There is this "good vs. evil" undertone for "little guy/gal vs. the
BIG CORPORATION" that fails to take into account what amounts to a
[probable] human error on a single employee's part [entering the
wrong part number].

get upset about than a few people getting a deal on a lens.

I can understand how some would feel that it’s wrong and wouldn’t
choose to take advantage of a too good to be true deal. But what I
don’t understand is why it’s so important for you to prove to
everyone else how wrong their actions are and how righteous yours
are. Isn’t this like the Pharisees that stand on the corner and
draw attention to their selves?

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

 

[EOSMan]

They will have to cut cost by shipping more jobs overseas.

Do you REALLY think this will have ANY effect on Dell's bottom
line?

So that makes it OK, huh? So long as you're only taking advantage
of a big corporation with deep pockets I guess it's OK. Who do you
think will make up the loss? Every subsequent Dell customer, that's
who. The cost of this fiasco will just be spread out on other
products and it may be a long time before we see any real bargains
from Dell on digital camera gear. But so long as you get yours...

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman

 

[Rick246386]

You seem to make alot of generalizations. What makes you so
perfect compared to the "rest of us".

Sometimes, generalizations work. This is one of those times. I'm not perfect and there was a time in my life when I would have jumped on such a deal. With age comes wisdom and understanding.

Self-involved with what?

Doing for ourselves despite how it affects others. Welcome to the second decade of the ME era.

How do you even consider this to be taking advantage of Dell? They
have NOT even admitted to a pricing error or any type of error
whatsoever.

No one honestly thinks this was anything BUT a typo or mistake. Dell doesn't have to validate it, everyone responding to the ad knows it.

What's wrong is that people such as yourself feel the need to
impose their own moralities on others who may not share the same
boundaries as you so to speak. This is an internet forum. Who
cares?

Every member of our society should care. Values and morals should resemble something that approximates a quorum. We aren't animals that depend on the strong to survive to perpetuate the species. Whenever someone takes advantage of a situation like this, someone else has to pay for it. That has a detrimental effect on the fabric of our society.

This issue really comes down to morality , and anybody can
argue the other side till they turn blue. I can see both sides ,
although my posts might seem to indicate that I wouldn't care about
getting the deal if I could , which isn't necessarily the truth.

Having a social conscience benefits us all. Accepting unconscionable behavior pulls us all down even if it enriches a few.

You didn't address my issue of saying what if the price were $900,
$1000, $1100 but STILL a pricing error on Dell's part. Would you
think it's ok? It isn't the reality but it is much more gray then
let's say $200.00 where everybody is quick to tout ethics.

There's a big difference between taking advantage of a good deal and an obvious mistake. A $200-300 discount is plausible. A $1000 discount is not.

How
many of you jumped on the 70-200 IS Dell deal , and are here now
spouting ethics when the reality is you missed out on clicking the
order button?

Didn't see it or hear about it.

Rick, I admire your convictions . However, capitalism will still
go on. People will always look for the best deal for themselves,
not for a company.

Again, a good deal and an obvious mistake are two different things.

It's weird, if I spend $1400.00 for this lens at B/H it's ok. If
I spend $1200.00 it's STILL ok because I got a good deal. Now
where does the dollar threshold have to cross before my ethics get
questioned? $200.00 is definiately making me a bad guy of "what's
wrong with society today". So ethics , have a certain dollar value
to reach before it becomes wrong?

It's not the $$$ value, it's the obviousness of being a shrewd shopper versus looking to exploit an error. In criminal court it's all about intent. The people trying to take advantage of this situation are purposely intending to extort money from Dell in the form of an unintended discount. That's immoral bordering on criminal, IMHO.

All in all, really Dell can cancel the orders. SO BE IT! At least
those of you who tried get some for effort. If it is so
detrimental to society like you put it, Dell will just get rid of
these frivolous orders instead of even trying to deal with them.

Or they might just give up on selling digital camera gear. So how does that benefit anyone other than the greedy that took or tried to take advantage of their simple mistake?

--
Rick A. Diaz
http://www.mcjournalist.com
The image is everything.
My opinions are my own. I paid good money for them.
See my profile for equipment list.

 

[PHT]

Immoral is when you have intent to decieve or go against your good conscious. Sure, I think that this deal is outrageous, but I, as well as many others like me, are not deceiving or conning DELL to cough up. We are merely sitting ducks at the mercy of their decision not to cancel our orders. When they actually cancel our order, I think I would be able to calmly and gracefully accept that without a fit. It is afterall a mistake. I strongly feel that many others will too. Immoral would be those that, knowing full well of this ordeal, try to persuade the innocent Indian sales reps to change their orders for their own advantage; ultimately causing those poor incompetent reps to potentially lose their jobs.