CheeseFrog
Forum Enthusiast
With all the rumors flying around about the discontinuing of certain IS L-series lenses, I thought they were just getting rid of old stock.
--
Cary
http://www.divinity18.com
--
Cary
http://www.divinity18.com
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
Imorality and the Dell error
- Thread starter Ken Croft
- Start date
You obviously have never dealt with Dell customer service.
Well question for anyone interested in answering.
I really have no opinion on this, I didn't know about this, from what I have "happened to see" it might have been a 100-400 lens but again, I have no idea what happened or what the price was but let me ask YOU this.
About 5 years ago, I bought stuff from Dell. I almost get stuck paying a printer because they claimed they didn't receive it but finally, I got UPS to track it down and they showed me proof (signature) that Dell had received it.
I faxed it to Dell and they stopped harassing me a couple of times a week.
NO appology by the way. I almost got screwed out of $500 on that one.
Some time later, I decided to get a computer from them. WEll, it was a refurbished unit but it only came with win95 or something and I wanted NT4 but being that it was refurb, they wouldn't let me upgrade and IF I loaded NT, there would be NO tech support so I returned it.
The ONLY fast internet connection I could get in those days in my area was ISDN so I also ordered an ISDN modem at $300 (regular price in those days).
When I was ready to return it, I had TWO big boxes (monitor and computer) and I was afraid the little box with the modem might get lost so I called and asked, do you want me to put the isdn modem box inside one of the big boxes and they said yes.
Of course, true to their habit, they claim they NEVER received the modem. I tried to straighten this out for several months and I even told them that I had a witness (my wife) but they refused to accept it.
The result, I wound up paying a $300 on a 4 year financing (bought other stuff from Dell) so it wound up costing me maybe 5-600.
Let me ask you then, IF I HAD taken advantage of this deal, would I have been in the right to do so or not?
I'm not trying to be shi*ty, not trying to put you on the spot or anything. I'm simply curious in your opinion. After all, they ripped ME off first?
George
I really have no opinion on this, I didn't know about this, from what I have "happened to see" it might have been a 100-400 lens but again, I have no idea what happened or what the price was but let me ask YOU this.
About 5 years ago, I bought stuff from Dell. I almost get stuck paying a printer because they claimed they didn't receive it but finally, I got UPS to track it down and they showed me proof (signature) that Dell had received it.
I faxed it to Dell and they stopped harassing me a couple of times a week.
NO appology by the way. I almost got screwed out of $500 on that one.
Some time later, I decided to get a computer from them. WEll, it was a refurbished unit but it only came with win95 or something and I wanted NT4 but being that it was refurb, they wouldn't let me upgrade and IF I loaded NT, there would be NO tech support so I returned it.
The ONLY fast internet connection I could get in those days in my area was ISDN so I also ordered an ISDN modem at $300 (regular price in those days).
When I was ready to return it, I had TWO big boxes (monitor and computer) and I was afraid the little box with the modem might get lost so I called and asked, do you want me to put the isdn modem box inside one of the big boxes and they said yes.
Of course, true to their habit, they claim they NEVER received the modem. I tried to straighten this out for several months and I even told them that I had a witness (my wife) but they refused to accept it.
The result, I wound up paying a $300 on a 4 year financing (bought other stuff from Dell) so it wound up costing me maybe 5-600.
Let me ask you then, IF I HAD taken advantage of this deal, would I have been in the right to do so or not?
I'm not trying to be shi*ty, not trying to put you on the spot or anything. I'm simply curious in your opinion. After all, they ripped ME off first?
George
Lemming51
Forum Pro
That's your story, and you're sticking to it. ;-)
Even thought the last time that happened the EF 100-300 f/5.6L was "blown out" for 60% of it's prior selling price, not 15%.
Even thought the last time that happened the EF 100-300 f/5.6L was "blown out" for 60% of it's prior selling price, not 15%.
My problem….My problem…..I ain’t got no stinking Problem ! LOL !
Ken, since you asked I guess I owe you a reply…
To clear the air:
You are correct I have absolutely no skin in this. I am not coming at this from some religious point of view and I don’t feel I’m morally superior to anyone here.
Early on, I came to the conclusion that Dell had simply made a huge pricing mistake. Once I reached this conclusion, I felt that it was dishonest for ME to take advantage of Dell’s obvious mistake. Unlike some others, I didn’t see it as gray area.
This is not only my conclusion, but as you see by the posts, many others also share a similar view…lots of nice and thoughtful people on this forum…(i.e. WildMike, Rick, RobE and others). Other (mostly) reasonable people saw it from the other point of view and they were comfortable with their decisions.
I view this as a discussion/ argument, and I was not trying to belittle anyone ….(not sure I have succeeded here, it’s often hard to make a point without being pretty blunt). I love a good discussion and it was more than a bit of fun. Trying to win people to my point of view was "my problem".
I think everything on this subject has been said at least twice (if I read “why haven’t they canceled my order” once more I’ll shoot myself).
I too am getting weary of all of this and I think I’ll just back off and lurk a while.
By the way, I have enjoyed your intelligent and logical (but some what misguided LOL) posts. I think we are more alike than our posts back and forth would indicate. Face to face, I think we might have some interesting discussions over a nice glass of Bordeaux..
Regards,
-Don
PS…must be some beautiful country up your way. I’ve gotten to the Sunlight Basin in WY where a friend has a cabin, also to Yellowstone, but only have passed through Idaho twice but didn’t get to see much.
Ken, since you asked I guess I owe you a reply…
To clear the air:
You are correct I have absolutely no skin in this. I am not coming at this from some religious point of view and I don’t feel I’m morally superior to anyone here.
Early on, I came to the conclusion that Dell had simply made a huge pricing mistake. Once I reached this conclusion, I felt that it was dishonest for ME to take advantage of Dell’s obvious mistake. Unlike some others, I didn’t see it as gray area.
This is not only my conclusion, but as you see by the posts, many others also share a similar view…lots of nice and thoughtful people on this forum…(i.e. WildMike, Rick, RobE and others). Other (mostly) reasonable people saw it from the other point of view and they were comfortable with their decisions.
I view this as a discussion/ argument, and I was not trying to belittle anyone ….(not sure I have succeeded here, it’s often hard to make a point without being pretty blunt). I love a good discussion and it was more than a bit of fun. Trying to win people to my point of view was "my problem".
I think everything on this subject has been said at least twice (if I read “why haven’t they canceled my order” once more I’ll shoot myself).
I too am getting weary of all of this and I think I’ll just back off and lurk a while.
By the way, I have enjoyed your intelligent and logical (but some what misguided LOL) posts. I think we are more alike than our posts back and forth would indicate. Face to face, I think we might have some interesting discussions over a nice glass of Bordeaux..
Regards,
-Don
PS…must be some beautiful country up your way. I’ve gotten to the Sunlight Basin in WY where a friend has a cabin, also to Yellowstone, but only have passed through Idaho twice but didn’t get to see much.
Anyone who bitches and whines about jobs moving elsewhere while at the same time searching out the best possible deals is being hypocritical.
When you demand that companies keep jobs here you're also demanding they keep their labor costs much much higher, and that means you, the consumer, will pay higher prices.
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
When you demand that companies keep jobs here you're also demanding they keep their labor costs much much higher, and that means you, the consumer, will pay higher prices.
--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
Ken Fox244188
Leading Member
I have been keeping an informal count and the correct number is somewhere between 8 and 15 times, depending on the specific comment
Like you, I enjoy heated discussions, but this whole thing has deteriorated into a discussion between people who feel entitled (and express it with less eloquence than a three year old who didn't get the toy they wanted for Christmas), and new recruits for a fundamentalist seminary
Those who are the most insistent about their entitlement and especially those who dissect each and every meaningless micro-event in this "drama" make me think I just drank a big glass bottle of Ipecac.
One of the more amusing aspects of this for me personally is that I've been thinking about getting a longer tele zoom or prime to complete my lens collection, and had just started looking at the range. Now that I've done a bit of reading and research on this 100-400mm lens, I'd put it at the very bottom of the list for consideration. My impression is that the mechanical reliability and the optics make it unappealing. I think I'll ultimately buy a 300mm prime, that is unless Santa Dell calls me to say, "you're getting an 'L'!!!"
Let me know when you are in the area and maybe I can find a bottle to dig out of the cellar.
ken
stephen s brown
Senior Member
Ken,
On Thursday eve when I ordered, Dells ad clearly described and pictured the 100-400. At that time there were a number of people who called to verify that it was in fact the 100-400 lens and there was no misprint. The callers reported here and on other forums that the Dell reps confirmed it was the 100-400 lens that was being offered - no misprint. Dell left the ad up all night and into the next day even though they had been called and questioned/warned many times and they continued to affirm the ad was correct.
It was just a good deal to be taken advantage of. The local store gives away free turkeys at Christmas. Who am I to complain, I'll take the free turkey.
Steve
Retired, and always in the pursuit of happiness.
http://homepage.mac.com/sbrowns1
http://www.pbase.com/stevebrown
On Thursday eve when I ordered, Dells ad clearly described and pictured the 100-400. At that time there were a number of people who called to verify that it was in fact the 100-400 lens and there was no misprint. The callers reported here and on other forums that the Dell reps confirmed it was the 100-400 lens that was being offered - no misprint. Dell left the ad up all night and into the next day even though they had been called and questioned/warned many times and they continued to affirm the ad was correct.
It was just a good deal to be taken advantage of. The local store gives away free turkeys at Christmas. Who am I to complain, I'll take the free turkey.
Steve
Retired, and always in the pursuit of happiness.
http://homepage.mac.com/sbrowns1
http://www.pbase.com/stevebrown
Todd,
First of all, I didn't curse at you in my reply to you, so the goddam lawyer part is a little out of line. I'm sorry you are so upset over this. I could write my own definition, but then I would be accused by you of making up things to justify my own position. So, I quoted a known and reliable source, the dictionary. As far as a debate in semantics, it is not. I merely provided a correction to the term that you used, stealing, and pointed out why it is not stealing. It is not fraud either. I did knowingly place an order for a $200 lens, paid for it, and my purchase was confirmed. That is called a business transaction. I have also not lied or will not lie about something that I did, if I get what you called the cheap lens. I did not order the 75-300, I placed an order for the 100-400L.
I am not a lawyer, but work in a field that uses them all of the time. I know how to read law, but I will not pretend to practice it. Too bad you have such an aversion to them in general. It is just like anything else in life, there are good ones and bad ones.
Bill
First of all, I didn't curse at you in my reply to you, so the goddam lawyer part is a little out of line. I'm sorry you are so upset over this. I could write my own definition, but then I would be accused by you of making up things to justify my own position. So, I quoted a known and reliable source, the dictionary. As far as a debate in semantics, it is not. I merely provided a correction to the term that you used, stealing, and pointed out why it is not stealing. It is not fraud either. I did knowingly place an order for a $200 lens, paid for it, and my purchase was confirmed. That is called a business transaction. I have also not lied or will not lie about something that I did, if I get what you called the cheap lens. I did not order the 75-300, I placed an order for the 100-400L.
I am not a lawyer, but work in a field that uses them all of the time. I know how to read law, but I will not pretend to practice it. Too bad you have such an aversion to them in general. It is just like anything else in life, there are good ones and bad ones.
Bill
Ken Fox244188
Leading Member
one of the more amusing fun facts on this subject has to do with a Visa "affinity card" available to members of the AFLCIO (large American labor union for you non-Americans). I heard it reported not long ago that a very large proportion of the charges, something like 1/3 in dollar volume, are made at Walmart. You can't find an outfit more unfriendly to organized labor than Walmart, nor one which sells more cheap Chinese and other imported goods, which makes this pretty damn funny. People vote with their wallets; watching what they say is nowhere as useful as watching what they DO.
ken
--
The Sawtooth Wilderness is the most photogenic place on earth!
Kind of like people complaining about the president but never thaking the time to go and vote.
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman
--
EOSMan
http://www.pbase.com/eosman
--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
That most only look out for #1, and can't see past their noses and how their behavior contradicts their "convictions".
Same goes for the animal rights people wearing leather shoes and belts, etc, etc, etc, etc..........................
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
Same goes for the animal rights people wearing leather shoes and belts, etc, etc, etc, etc..........................
--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
JoshW
Senior Member
The fact is, MOST people want a good deal. If they see two identical items ( or what appears to be identical) and one is less expensive then the other, they're going to purchase the less expensive item.
Common sense, human nature.
Now, to watch WalMart (and other companies) squeeze every last penny out of small forign factories, even putting some out of business to save 2 cents on a fan, to basically force these factories to use CHEAP, often child labor, and then point the finger at the consumer and say, well... it's YOUR FAULT! YOU picked the less expensive item! is rather naive and foolish.
There are certainly companies with a global conscience, which are successful. It isn't that it can't be done, but most companies focus on the bottom line.
Jim Coffey
Leading Member
Sure - they ran an add offering a product at a set price.
Waht they failed to do was think about what would happen if soemone took them up on the offer.
So - if American Express offers a Z4 for $5000 on their site - is that legitimate or a mistake?
McD's served coffee much hotter than normal - and people burned themselves when they tried to use it in the normal manner - i.e. drink it after purchasing it. People have a right to expect that others will act in a reasonable and prudent manner (which is different from a contract, BTW). NcD's continued to ignore the problems, and got called on it. I suppose you think anyone can absolve themselves of blame because the victim should have known about the danger.
If someone is driving 100 in a 30 zone and hits you, is it OK to say "any idiot nows people drive fast on the road so it's your fault you tried to cross the street?"
Mark Deux
Well-known member
...who think that those who ordered this lens are morally bankrupt cretins....you should really check this out...
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mikem/are.swf
http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~mikem/are.swf
JoshW
Senior Member
I think this sums it up, quite nicely....
Mark Deux
Well-known member
Someone with common sense!!!! Thank you!
It's really all a matter of opinions.. You can easily make a case
that the buyer is immoral.. You can easily make a case that the
buyer did no wrong.. (same facts, two different spins on them, damn
politics).. Dell could deserve this.. Dell could be victimized by
it.. The law might agree, it might not (even the law has more than
one side). You can argue so many angles, each time stating only the
facts that happen to support your chosen direction. Trust me, we
easily forget the big picture and facts that don't agree with us.
One persons extremely biased post could've gone the other way
without much thought. Everyone is using logic, concepts, and facts
to support what really comes down to a personal perspective.
Something that few of us even know the motivation of (If you have
control over your own psychology, I'd be surprised). You opinions
may be based on the way you were raised. But, as long as a person
feels they aren't a "bad person", then they should be left alone by
others. Those who do feel bad about the situation will feel guilty
when they take the lens out for a photo trip.
Arguing that another person should abandon their own value system
and adopt that of a internet forum poster they barely met is silly.
It's a personal choice. Making your opinion known that you are
judging another person as bad or wrong is also silly.
Some would consider belittling anothers moral values to be an
immoral action. Some see black and white, some think life as grey,
some make logical decisions, some just have a "feeling" about their
decisions. We should respect anyone who is well intentioned, even
if we don't agree with them.
And it's highly possible for someone to have a "different"
morality, without one being better than the other. That's a
horrible cultural problem we have in this country. Not everything
needs to be compared and judged. Life would be easier without it.
No one here can blame another for seeing the world differently,
that's the way the world is designed. Pick a side and be happy..
Bobby
CatchingTime
Forum Enthusiast
Not so sure Best Buy is such a good example in this case. A friend recently took in her year-old digital P&S because the lens needed cleaned (or something inane like that), and they said they didn't do that in house, but since she got the extra warranty, they gave her a brand-spanking new camera, an updated version with 2 more MP! Now how does that make sense? She didn't ask for it, they offered it right up... Maybe it was their 12-year old employees who caused the problem.
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum