Help Me Understand......

[BroLuke]

You told me to leave as you didn't like my ideas...

I don't like the way you are jumping on people with word "friking".
I am not your friend or beer body, you don't know me so be polite
and normal. Besides nobody cares about your personal rights and
needs as well.

Lenny,

So now you speak for the group?

I seriously doubt that as I've met some cool folks here and your the only one to gripe and be so classless enough to throw an apology back in someones face and pile on with more castic attitude...Pretty pathetic....

Hopefully I haven't come off as trying to cause distress to the rest of you. It may be interesting to some of you to see how Canon is seen by someone not so imersed in Canon and the throught process of one who doesn't choose Canon first.

BL

 

[gingerbaker]

One of the issues...my only even minor gripe is Canons clear
advantage in high, 800+ iso photography. I don't do much of this
sort of thing and have been able to work around it but to my meager
knowledge the difference seemed to be based upon the FF sensor of
Canon dslr's.

I think that if you do, in fact, buy a newer Canon, you will be very pleasantly surprised indeed at how much you will enjoy the ability to make wonderfully clean captures at high ISO's.

Your " I don't do much of this sort of thing" may well become " Wow - I am going to do a lot more of this sort of thing! "

You don't need a FF sensor to get truly clean high ISO images - the upcoming MarkIII has a smaller sensor than the 5D, but promises to have significantly cleaner images.

Canon's secret lies in its CMOS architecture(s) and their ever-improving circuitries and photowell designs which lower baseline electronic noise levels. More photons filling up larger photowells with lower inherent noise levels means "cleaner" information at lower light levels.

What is cool is that the camera's abilities will expand your photographic options, allowing you to do more types of photography than you could before - you may discover that you really enjoy new genres or techniques you simply dismissed before.

--
Gingerbaker

http://www.pbase.com/gingerbaker/galleries

 

[lenny_shp]

Is there something wrong with that?

Just funny to read, like nothing else to say...

BTW.. do you think your Canon is better then my D2Xs at ISO 100? I don't..

I am using any ISO available on mine 5D, probably not much 3200. Since I got this camera I am not even thinking about noise at high ISO since it doesn't exist. ISO200 to 800 is normal for most of mine shots, and sometimes I need to check Exif to figure what ISO level it was since no difference.

Besides mine 5D provides me with 35mm frame picture without any crop effect and and lens calculations.

Could you say same about any Nikon DSLR?

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My gallery: http://www.pbase.com/breitling65/best_of_

 

[BroLuke]

Your " I don't do much of this sort of thing" may well become " Wow

• I am going to do a lot more of this sort of thing! "

Canon's secret lies in its CMOS architecture(s)

That's what I suspected..

Nikon sports one or 2 cmos sensors don't they?

I wonder if they have any better results....

Of course I'm sure it's the way you interpret the information as well as in the firmware/software.

What, and does it even fit the conversation, type sensor does the medium format Leaf type backs use?

BL

 

[BroLuke]

Lets forget about this thread and the non sense it brought out...
You are correct, we would buy each other a beer.. I am sure of
that. I'm not so sure about the Golf thing.. I stopped playing when
my golfing partner, my father, was killed in a car crash.. I didn't
have the interest to play anymore..

We have lots in common, we both love the same things.. High Tech
Photography equipment.. and, time allowing, actually taking
pictures with said Hi Tech equipment..

Oh great..

Next you 2 are going to be wearing the same gym clothes and sharing icecream cones...laying on blankets and naming stars after each other.....I just got this picture of you guys slurlping up the same piece of spaghetti and coming lip to lip like those Disney dogs ..Lady and the Tramp!

Better than griping about camera brands...I guess...

Peace !

Bro.Luke

 

[T3]

Hmm maybe I'm misinformed...I thought the Mark III will be about
$4700....is that so? That seems like a lot based upon recent
trends...

Well, a lot of the price is based on what the market will bear. And the 1D MKIII is going to be a pretty popular camera because of its very desirable performance (10fps at 10mp with very low noise even at high ISO, etc.). So basically, they are still going to sell tons of these cameras at that price. In other words, the (pro) market will definitely bear that price.

The funny part is, if you don't know, many Nikon guys are always
threatening to go Canon unless Nikon releases a FF dslr!

You aren't getting the full picture. Therefore, you apparently don't have a full understanding of the situation. Canon users have the option of using APS or FF. Nikon users only have the option of using APS. Many Nikon users would like the option of using FF, just like Canon offers. But that does not mean that all Canon cameras are FF, or that everyone who uses Canon cameras have to use FF. It's an option. And it's an option that many people find valuable. Valuable enough to switch systems for.

Oh well...No matter I'm happy with my D200 and guess what i just
remembered my 1st camera was a Canon so I have a soft spot for
Canon and think they're cool!

If it's no matter, then why did you even bother to ask?

 

[T3]

Your " I don't do much of this sort of thing" may well become " Wow

• I am going to do a lot more of this sort of thing! "

Canon's secret lies in its CMOS architecture(s)

That's what I suspected..

Nikon sports one or 2 cmos sensors don't they?

I wonder if they have any better results....
Of course I'm sure it's the way you interpret the information as
well as in the firmware/software.

What, and does it even fit the conversation, type sensor does the
medium format Leaf type backs use?

Bigger sensors allow for bigger pixels, which typically translates to lower noise. Yes, Canon's FF sensor is larger than Nikon's 1.5x sensor. But Canon's 1.3x sensor is also larger than Nikon's 1.5x sensor. Both of Canon's pro sensor formats is larger than Nikon's 1.5x sensor. And on top of that, you have Canon's CMOS architecture and DIGIC processor, which also adds to Canon's low noise characteristics. Plus, there's the added fact that Canon has been making their own sensors since their very first DSLR in 2000, with the Canon D30, which used a 3mp Canon CMOS sensor. And over the years, Canon has been able to refine and improve the performance of their CMOS sensors.

 

[Frank Benvenuto]

You're too funny..

--
Subject and Composition Trumps Any Camera Flaws.
Frank Benvenuto

 

[JohnnyRX7]

Lets forget about this thread and the non sense it brought out...
You are correct, we would buy each other a beer.. I am sure of
that. I'm not so sure about the Golf thing.. I stopped playing when
my golfing partner, my father, was killed in a car crash.. I didn't
have the interest to play anymore..

We have lots in common, we both love the same things.. High Tech
Photography equipment.. and, time allowing, actually taking
pictures with said Hi Tech equipment..

Oh great..

Next you 2 are going to be wearing the same gym clothes and sharing
icecream cones...laying on blankets and naming stars after each
other.....I just got this picture of you guys slurlping up the same
piece of spaghetti and coming lip to lip like those Disney dogs
..Lady and the Tramp!

Better than griping about camera brands...I guess...

Peace !

Bro.Luke

only if they have it in blu-ray
--
Johnny

 

[Frank Benvenuto]

Could you say same about any Nikon DSLR?

Hi Lenny,

But you answered a question with a question.. Have you been watching too much American Politics on TV? LOL

Like you, I have shot literally tens of thousands of photos with my current DSLR. Do you know what 95% of those shot were of? Of course you don't know so let me tell you.. They were shots in the studio under studio strobes.. Now, given that operating enviorment do you think there is any difference in what you use and what I use? I don't think so. So back to my original question.. Do you think your Canon makes a better picture at ISO 100 then my D2Xs?

If I were in a situation where I was finding that my images were suffering because of noise in low light, I would be amoung the first to look for a solution. I AM NOT using Nikon because I fly some brand name banner.. I could easily buy another brand at the drop of a hat..

One more thing.. You're got some really nice photos in your gallery.. Nice work my friend..

--
Subject and Composition Trumps Any Camera Flaws.
Frank Benvenuto

 

[BroLuke]

You aren't getting the full picture. Therefore, you apparently
don't have a full understanding of the situation. Canon users have
the option of using APS or FF. Nikon users only have the option of
using APS.

Wrong!

I have the option of owning both Nikon and Canon.

Come to think of it when I was shotting regularly I had a Hassy, Leica, Nikon and sometimes an old Rollei (yea it's been a while since I shot like that) But there was no exclusion of brands.

Just like my woodworking tools. I have my favorite brands I look at first but buy the best I can afford.

Thanks,

Bro.Luke

 

[JohnnyRX7]

You aren't getting the full picture. Therefore, you apparently
don't have a full understanding of the situation. Canon users have
the option of using APS or FF. Nikon users only have the option of
using APS.

Wrong!

I have the option of owning both Nikon and Canon.

Come to think of it when I was shotting regularly I had a Hassy,
Leica, Nikon and sometimes an old Rollei (yea it's been a while
since I shot like that) But there was no exclusion of brands.

Just like my woodworking tools. I have my favorite brands I look at
first but buy the best I can afford.

Thanks,

Bro.Luke

then you would be more then a nikon user.. you would be a canon user as well... you still miss the point. Please do not pretend to not understand what t3 is saying, you cant be that dense on accident.

Not that anything is wrong with being a canon and nikon user, I still own cameras from Nikon,Canon and Sony and Fuji. In the end I hope Nikon does FF..canon needs the competition.
--
Johnny

 

[BroLuke]

then you would be more then a nikon user.. you would be a canon
user as well... you still miss the point. Please do not pretend to
not understand what t3 is saying, you cant be that dense on
accident.
Johnny

Well since I only have a Nikon at this point I guess I could be labeled as a "Nikon user" but that misses the point as well.

Some folks insist on arguing brands and while I've done the same in the past as a "visitor" here that's not my intention. If you feel justyfied and labelling me... go ahead. If it makes you feel better you are a "Canon user" more power to you.

At a certain level economcs plays a part...right now I can't afford to be cross platform. As I stated earlier the D200 fits the bill perfectly for me. 5D would have been a better choice but the money just wasn't there so not an option.

As I get more work and expand and define my market I will be able to expand my camera arsenal and will most likley do as I have in the past...buy the best tool for the job...that money will allow.

Thanks,

Bro.Luke

 

[Space Cowboy]

If the D200 with its x1.5 sensor "fits the bill" what do you reproach to the 1D MKIII with its x1.3 sensor?

Many people think the x1.3 sensor is a very good compromise, between the two others from Canon. Wide but without the soft corners often

found on some lenses with the 5D. If you do not plan to buy an 1D MK III, maybe should you stop criticizing it with useless arguments on the Canon and Nikon Forums.

Regards,
Jon.

--
'You are not Ansel Adams.'

 

[JohnnyRX7]

then you would be more then a nikon user.. you would be a canon
user as well... you still miss the point. Please do not pretend to
not understand what t3 is saying, you cant be that dense on
accident.
Johnny

Well since I only have a Nikon at this point I guess I could be
labeled as a "Nikon user" but that misses the point as well.

Some folks insist on arguing brands and while I've done the same in
the past as a "visitor" here that's not my intention. If you feel
justyfied and labelling me... go ahead. If it makes you feel better
you are a "Canon user" more power to you.

Not really I could care less... I'd switch systems if I needed too. I guess I could use both systems but I'd rather not carry both systems and said lens. Label me as a " DSLR user" and a occasional P&S user.

At a certain level economcs plays a part...right now I can't afford
to be cross platform. As I stated earlier the D200 fits the bill
perfectly for me. 5D would have been a better choice but the money
just wasn't there so not an option.

Like I said...there is nothing wrong with that !... and the whole point of T3 post was to say as a canon user you have the choice of APS-C,H and FF and use most lens (except EF-s) with all 3. All you have is crop with Nikon DSLR.

As I get more work and expand and define my market I will be able
to expand my camera arsenal and will most likley do as I have in
the past...buy the best tool for the job...that money will allow.

Nothing wrong with that...but you have to admit if you found later that you needed FF, wouldn't you rather have one lens system ? I know I would unless I did nothing but studio work.

Thanks,

Bro.Luke

--
Johnny

 

[David Martin]

..you seem to be having some difficulty in grasping that at current levels of technology different sensor sizes may give the right compromise for particular jobs.

Although others may luse it the 1DIII is designed to be an out-and-out no compromise sports shooter pro camera.

So the price tag is not really surprising since it has a very tough weatherproof body, first class AF and a high frame rate.

10MP in a 1.3 gives a great balance of excellent high ISO ability, as the pixels are much larger than the 1.5 Nikons as well as other Canon expertise in this field.

Going to FF for this use is not necessary, as it would bump the cost up towards the $8k of the 1Ds series.

So within a year after all the relevant models are replaced people who ahve Canon lens systems will have a choice of the 1DIII with great high ISO and reasonable resolution in a pro body at normal pro camera prices, the studio and landscape model in the 1DsIII with maybe 22MP and slightly compromised high ISO and around half the frame rate at around $8k, or the 5D replacement, offering FF and maybe 16MP, first class high ISO and a much more modest cost, in a less robust body and so on.

With a rpo sports camera, pro studio camera, and a low-cost FF option, what is not to like about the range?

And if Canon feel that that is most effectively done at teh moment by using different sensoor sizes, why is that a problem?
Surely it is 'tools for the job?'

Hi,

I'm venturing back into digital photography. Being a life long
Nikon guy (1st camera a Nikkormat!) I got a D70 then D200 without
doing much research.

Now I'm online and hanging here a DPR trying to learn more.

Of course much of it is based upon arguing brands..on the Nikon
side anyway..

One of the issues...my only even minor gripe is Canons clear
advantage in high, 800+ iso photography. I don't do much of this
sort of thing and have been able to work around it but to my meager
knowledge the difference seemed to be based upon the FF sensor of
Canon dslr's.

The Mark III will be the 1st Canon I paid attention to upon release
as it's garnered quite a bit of interest.

But I just discovered it's an APS-H sensor with a 1.3 lens
conversion factor.

Is there to be 2 models, one with FF one APS?

Hmm maybe I'm misinformed...I thought the Mark III will be about
$4700....is that so? That seems like a lot based upon recent
trends...

The funny part is, if you don't know, many Nikon guys are always
threatening to go Canon unless Nikon releases a FF dslr!

Oh well...No matter I'm happy with my D200 and guess what i just
remembered my 1st camera was a Canon so I have a soft spot for
Canon and think they're cool!

Thanks,

Bro.Luke

--
Regards,
DaveMart

'Just a wildebeest on the plain of life'
Please see profile for equipment

 

[Don Finch]

Dave,

Great answer that really puts all this equipment stuff in perspective!! I always enjoy your contributions in this forum. Keep up the good work.
Don
--
Happy Shooting
regards,
def
http://www.pbase.com/definchdds

 

[lenny_shp]

But you answered a question with a question..

That is normal ..

I don't think so. So back to my original question.. Do you think your Canon makes a better picture at ISO 100 then my D2Xs?

As I said, ISO 100 is one of the ISO's I am using and virtually no difference in noise level for mine 5D what to use (range 100 or 800 especially).

ISO is just one of the parameters making picture better, so I would say good optics, right exposure & lights, and for sure PP!!! - That what makes picture better or worse. I like Canon not just because of FF sensor on mine; I like huge line of lenses (L's!!!) available.

Just rent 5D & 85L and try it in your studio, than let me know what makes better pictures.

One more thing.. You're got some really nice photos in your gallery.. Nice work my friend..

Thanks, I am not a pro however i like photography very much.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My gallery: http://www.pbase.com/breitling65/best_of_

 

[BroLuke]

If you do not plan to buy an 1D
MK III, maybe should you stop criticizing it with useless arguments
on the Canon and Nikon Forums.

Regards,
Jon.

--
'You are not Ansel Adams.'

You guys are funny..looking for arguments where there is none.

I've not critisized the MkIII and on the contrary have stated it will be state of the art for what it does.

My confusion came from my misunderstanding of sensor size and yes I was taken aback by the price of a non FF camera. Spend a week over at the Nikon forum and all you here is FF, FF, FF, FF... Seriously! So much so that someone like me was suprized not ALL Canons are FF!

Yes you can go back several week or months and probably find more Nikon centric arguments coming from me. Hopefully I have tempered my arguments and frankly feel better informed now thanks to many of you!

So take it easy!

Bro.Luke

 

[Space Cowboy]

No problem. It's just that a DSLR DOES NOT need to be FF to be relatively high priced.

Jon.
--
'You are not Ansel Adams.'