GPU USELESS For Lightroom Classic!

[Batdude]

Igot me two 1TB M.2 fast SSD.

Two separate 1TB sticks hasn't impressed me that much at the moment when transferring hundreds of files from folders to folders. But I will say that the import/export process is for sure a LOT faster than my previous i7-6700 and in task manager I do see that for certain things that I do the system uses the hard drive and RAM a lot.

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man. Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

Thanks,
Sky

 

[Batdude]

The 3900X is not hugely faster than the i7-6700 at single-core speed, but it has 24 processors as against the i7-6700's 8, and so has much greater all-core speed.

I've made the same upgrade (in my case i7-6700K, slightly over-clocked) to 3900X, and here are the CPU-ID benchmarks: first figure is single-core speed, second is all-core:

i7-6700: 474, 2377

i7-6700K: 483, 2555

3900X: 532, 8201

Processor clock speeds have not risen greatly since the i7-6700, but current processors have many more cores. Lightroom does not seem to use anything like the 24 processors on my machine, but uses around half of them when exporting or building previews.

...snip...

I quite agree with you: a powerful graphics card is wasted on Lightroom.

Better, I think, to spend money on a fast M.2 NVMe SSD for C drive, raw cache, catalog and previews. That can all be the same drive if it's big enough.

Hi Simon,

Since you upgraded from an i7-6700 CPU to the AMD 3900X, just wanted to get your opinion.

I'm running an i7-6700 CPU and I have never experienced any slowdown when editing in Lightroom5, Photoshop7, or SonyMovieStudioPlatinum12 video editing.

I have never done any video editing so in my case I can't say. You shoudn't have any problem with the I7, the thing is that the reason why i decided to "upgrade" is because I PP thousands of photos and need a really fast turn around time for customers.

But, right now I'm having a few issues and I'll probably have better answers in a few days.

Where is the additional speed of an upgraded CPU evident? I'm not saying that you made any such claim but I respect your expertise so would like your viewpoint based on your experience.

(in case it's needed, additional specs for my system are: 16GB DDR4 2133MHz ram, Samsung 860 EVO, 500GB SSD system C drive, 2TB 7200rpm hard drive for data storage.)

Thanks,
Sky

 

[edispics]

Igot me two 1TB M.2 fast SSD.

Two separate 1TB sticks hasn't impressed me that much at the moment when transferring hundreds of files from folders to folders. But I will say that the import/export process is for sure a LOT faster than my previous i7-6700 and in task manager I do see that for certain things that I do the system uses the hard drive and RAM a lot.

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man. Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

Could you be a little bit more specific.

I understand you are copying files from one directory on your C: M,2 drive to another folder on that same drive. What types of files - photo files? - what is average size of each file? How many files? How long does it take to copy the files from one location to the other? Are you using Windows file explorer to perform the copy?

With this additional info others might be able to test their copy speeds in similar scenarios to see if you results are common or not.

You can also try running Crystal Disk Mark and compare your benchmarks to others

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3987-crystaldiskmark.html

 

[skyglider]

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

No, not the same thing. First case is like putting a name to a computer. If your i7 PC was named Sam, then saying that the 3900x PC (the whole system including fast SSDs) can import/export files a lot faster than your Sam PC (that could have slower SATA SSD or mechanical hard drive).

In the second case, it's like saying that the import/export speed difference is attributed to the 3900x CPU being a lot faster than an i7-6700 CPU (not taking into consideration the type of storage devices being used).

Honestly not criticizing, Just trying to clarify the meanings.

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man.

I assume you're not using file compression on any of your drives, you're copying files from one internal SSD to the other internal SSD (not using USB).

Try these things:

1. Disconnect all cables connected to the PC except monitor, keyboard and mouse. (In case a USB device is causing the slow down)
2. If you have an optical drive connected to the motherboard via a SATA header (not USB), disconnect it. (It could be affecting the data bus)
3. Disable your antivirus and see what hapens. (in case it's real time protection is slowing things down).
4. Disable Win10 search indexing (I hate that it slows stuff down. I always disable windows search indexing period.)
5. Remember that moving a file on the same SSD or hard drive is always faster than copying the file. Moving on the same SSD or HDD just changes the addressing of the data. Copying involves reading and writing every bit of data.

I've seen a peripheral slowing down the data bus problem many times so disconnecting everything is a good first troubleshooting step. You could also disconnect your second SSD and just have the system SSD running in case the second SSD is slowing down the data bus.

Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

Some MB M.2 slots can run as SATA or NVMe, and it's possible you setup too use the former.

Provide us with the make and model of your MB, your SSD(s), and which slot you put your SSD in.

Download and run AS SSD benchmark:

Loading…

www.techspot.com

and post the results for large read/writes as well as 4K read/writes.

 

[Batdude]

Igot me two 1TB M.2 fast SSD.

Two separate 1TB sticks hasn't impressed me that much at the moment when transferring hundreds of files from folders to folders. But I will say that the import/export process is for sure a LOT faster than my previous i7-6700 and in task manager I do see that for certain things that I do the system uses the hard drive and RAM a lot.

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man. Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

Could you be a little bit more specific.

Sure edispics.

Sorry I was referring to file explorer files. Well I have been messing around with 1900 16MP Fuji RAW files and I've been playing with both jpeg and RAW files.

This is the update: I literately went to go bring (borrow) the i7-6700K PC that I gave my sister and just did some really simple and basic file transfer stuff, in File Explorer. Well, in the end it looks like the AMD is still faster, but with this application it doesn't make a huge difference in speed. Those same 1900 RAW files took 2:07 minutes. The new Ryzen system took 1:43.

I guess (in my mind) for some reason it felt like the older PC was doing this a bit faster, but I guess is not after all. And from what I am learning here is that the hardware we all have is very dependent on the software that we are running when it comes to speed performance.

But for sure during Lightroom import/export the new Ryzen is smoking my previous system. 1900 RAW files loaded in 1:40 seconds, I had never seen that before and I would usually go watch a TV show or make some coffee during importing. So I guess in the end I am satisfied.

In the end, I kind of already knew that this new hardware of more capable than the software itself, and I guess that was one of the main reasons to buy something a little more "advanced" to give me a little "future proof" head room and hopefully in the very near future more software copanies such as Lightroom will continue to innovate by making their software a lot faster because in the end Lightoom does suck when it comes to speed compared to other software out there.

The fact that LR barely uses the GPU for only a handful of functions is IMHO very poor.

I understand you are copying files from one directory on your C: M,2 drive to another folder on that same drive. What types of files - photo files? - what is average size of each file? How many files? How long does it take to copy the files from one location to the other? Are you using Windows file explorer to perform the copy?

With this additional info others might be able to test their copy speeds in similar scenarios to see if you results are common or not.

You can also try running Crystal Disk Mark and compare your benchmarks to others

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/3987-crystaldiskmark.html

 

[Batdude]

Some MB M.2 slots can run as SATA or NVMe, and it's possible you setup too use the former.

Thats interesting now you got me curious

Provide us with the make and model of your MB, your SSD(s), and which slot you put your SSD in.

M.2 SDD ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro 1TB. Gigabyte Aorus Pro AC.

All I know is that the the two M.2 sticks are each in their own slot and the heat sinks that came with the motherboard are on them. I can see them.

Download and run AS SSD benchmark:

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

and post the results for large read/writes as well as 4K read/writes.

 

[Batdude]

Some MB M.2 slots can run as SATA or NVMe, and it's possible you setup too use the former.

I just went into the BIOS and checked the NVMe configurations and both M.2 SSD are set to NVMe. All SATA slots are blank.

The PC shop where I got my system built know what they are doing and that's where I had my previous PC assembled as well. They do a fantastic job. Why the XMP was not enabled that I don't know and I'll find out Monday.

Provide us with the make and model of your MB, your SSD(s), and which slot you put your SSD in.

Download and run AS SSD benchmark:

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014-as-ssd-benchmark.html

and post the results for large read/writes as well as 4K read/writes.

Sure and thank you!

Here are the results for C:





Here is for D:

 

[Batdude]

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

No, not the same thing. First case is like putting a name to a computer. If your i7 PC was named Sam, then saying that the 3900x PC (the whole system including fast SSDs) can import/export files a lot faster than your Sam PC (that could have slower SATA SSD or mechanical hard drive).

In the second case, it's like saying that the import/export speed difference is attributed to the 3900x CPU being a lot faster than an i7-6700 CPU (not taking into consideration the type of storage devices being used).

Honestly not criticizing, Just trying to clarify the meanings.

Yeah no worries I understand what you mean. The Ryzen 3900X itself is what's making import/export a lot faster indeed. The intel system also has really good stuff in it, great fast M.2 SSD and really good RAM as well and is no slouch and my loving sister is getting a heck of a PC

The Ryzen CPU is working like a dog together with some memory. The bastar* GPU is just sitting there eating pop corn and enjoying the show. Lightroom itself has a LONG way to go and they seriously need to change the way this software performs over all. It is definitely not the fastest.

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man.

I assume you're not using file compression on any of your drives, you're copying files from one internal SSD to the other internal SSD (not using USB).

Try these things:

1. Disconnect all cables connected to the PC except monitor, keyboard and mouse. (In case a USB device is causing the slow down)
2. If you have an optical drive connected to the motherboard via a SATA header (not USB), disconnect it. (It could be affecting the data bus)
3. Disable your antivirus and see what hapens. (in case it's real time protection is slowing things down).
4. Disable Win10 search indexing (I hate that it slows stuff down. I always disable windows search indexing period.)
5. Remember that moving a file on the same SSD or hard drive is always faster than copying the file. Moving on the same SSD or HDD just changes the addressing of the data. Copying involves reading and writing every bit of data.

I just checked and search indexing looks completely clean. Thanks for the tip.

I've seen a peripheral slowing down the data bus problem many times so disconnecting everything is a good first troubleshooting step. You could also disconnect your second SSD and just have the system SSD running in case the second SSD is slowing down the data bus.

Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

If you want to check GPU usage, you'll need to open resource monitor, select GPU, and then pick one of the 8 or 10 different days points provided. For example, you could pick CUDA processing of video encoding or video decoding. I've seen 100% in one of the categories whereas task manager only shows GPU usage of a few percent.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

Looks like they are configured correctly.

 

[IanYorke]

Batdude,

I'm wondering. When you say import/export process is a LOT faster than your previous i7-6700, are you just using the i7-6700 as a reference to that computer?

Correct. Just to give you an example, my previous system would not import 1900 RAW photos in one minute and fourty seconds.

Or are you attributing the lot faster import/export speed to the difference between your AMD CPU vs the Intel i7-6700?

Isn't that the same thing as above?

No, not the same thing. First case is like putting a name to a computer. If your i7 PC was named Sam, then saying that the 3900x PC (the whole system including fast SSDs) can import/export files a lot faster than your Sam PC (that could have slower SATA SSD or mechanical hard drive).

In the second case, it's like saying that the import/export speed difference is attributed to the 3900x CPU being a lot faster than an i7-6700 CPU (not taking into consideration the type of storage devices being used).

Honestly not criticizing, Just trying to clarify the meanings.

Yeah no worries I understand what you mean. The Ryzen 3900X itself is what's making import/export a lot faster indeed. The intel system also has really good stuff in it, great fast M.2 SSD and really good RAM as well and is no slouch and my loving sister is getting a heck of a PC

The Ryzen CPU is working like a dog together with some memory. The bastar* GPU is just sitting there eating pop corn and enjoying the show. Lightroom itself has a LONG way to go and they seriously need to change the way this software performs over all. It is definitely not the fastest.

Seems to me that import/export speed is a function of the storage device (in your case two 1TB M.2 SSDs) and that the CPU has little to do with import/export speed.

From what I'ms seeing is both. CPU AND storage are very active when I check task manager.

The really weird thing I'm experiencing right now and I don't know what the hell is going on, is that transferring files from file to file, even within the same M.2 C: drive is really slow man.

I assume you're not using file compression on any of your drives, you're copying files from one internal SSD to the other internal SSD (not using USB).

Try these things:

1. Disconnect all cables connected to the PC except monitor, keyboard and mouse. (In case a USB device is causing the slow down)
2. If you have an optical drive connected to the motherboard via a SATA header (not USB), disconnect it. (It could be affecting the data bus)
3. Disable your antivirus and see what hapens. (in case it's real time protection is slowing things down).
4. Disable Win10 search indexing (I hate that it slows stuff down. I always disable windows search indexing period.)
5. Remember that moving a file on the same SSD or hard drive is always faster than copying the file. Moving on the same SSD or HDD just changes the addressing of the data. Copying involves reading and writing every bit of data.

I just checked and search indexing looks completely clean. Thanks for the tip.

I've seen a peripheral slowing down the data bus problem many times so disconnecting everything is a good first troubleshooting step. You could also disconnect your second SSD and just have the system SSD running in case the second SSD is slowing down the data bus.

Something is not right and I need to find what the issue is. The Ryzen 3900X us supposed to be a lot faster than my previous CPU and the M.2 is double the speed so I'm scratching my heat at this point.

CPU performance hasn't changed greatly for several years and has pretty much plateud.

Increases in PC performance comes from increasing core count, the 3900x has two 6 core CPUs under the heatsink, 12 core/24 threads

The other way performance has increased is by using the "cpu" in the GPU. The GPU can be much more powerful than the CPU for certain tasks. Utilising the GPU is pretty much a no brainer but it does require significant resources put into re-writing software to use it.

If the software isn't written to use multi cores but is mainly single core threaded and/or doesn't use the GPU effectively it is like having a supercharged car but the software never presses the gas pedal hard enough to engage the supercharger I am try to use a car analogy without knowing anything about cars but I hope you get the point :-l

A 12 core /24 thread CPU and a good GPU does mean that you are future proofed as eventually most software will migrate to using the extra power available. For example DXO's latest version now uses the GPU to speed up PRIME noise reduction. Not only has the speed improved but the results have as well, without the GPU process times would have been even longer with the new DeepPrime.

If you use Topaz Sharpen AI you can get great results but without the GPU process times in stabilise mode are slow. When Topaz is processing it uses 100% of your GPU which is usually just used for painting pixels on your monitor.

So the take is that if you use largely single threaded software that doesn't use the GPU you are pretty much good to go with any decent CPU from the last 5 years. SSD/nvme storage will give you the best improvements but they have also been around for the last few years.

Ian

 

[CAcreeks]

Looks like they are configured correctly.

Why is the D: drive slower than the C: drive? Looks like the same type SSD.

 

[Robert Zanatta]

It's only slower on the sustained transfer, and that's common with the ADATA drives.

 

[johnnyandedgar]

"So the take is that if you use largely single threaded software that doesn't use the GPU you are pretty much good to go with any decent CPU from the last 5 years. SSD/nvme storage will give you the best improvements but they have also been around for the last few years."

You hit the nail squarely on the head Ian.

I upgraded from an 4/8 i7 to an 8/16 i9 . The increased cache to 16 MB and and 5 GHz turbo speed made some speed increase contribution. I too feel the upper tier NVME SSD's made the most difference. They are truly amazing.

johnnyandedgar

 

[skyglider]

1. Disable Win10 search indexing (I hate that it slows stuff down. I always disable windows search indexing period.)

I just checked and search indexing looks completely clean. Thanks for the tip.

Not sure if you actually disabled Win10 search indexing. Here's the procedure:

1. Press the windows key + r
2. Enter into the run text box: services.msc
3. Scroll down to "Windows search"
   1. Does it show "Disabled"?
4. If not, right click "Windows search" and click properties
5. Change "Startup type" to disabled.
6. Click OK.

Disabling windows search indexing is a personal choice. Some say it's not necessary with a fast CPU. Others say it helps with slow CPUs or using SSD. I found that while indexing is going on it slows down my PC so I always disable it.

Plus when I used to have windows search enabled, I saw where a windows search did not find a file that I knew was on my drive. I switched to the free "Agent ransack" program and it found the file. Agent Ransack does not do indexing so its search takes longer but it is 100% reliable. My windows "no find" search was a long time ago so I don't know if Win10's search is 100% reliable now (probably is). But IMO why have windows search indexing slowing down my PC when I want my PC to run at optimum speed all the time. I don't do searches enough to make search indexing worth it.

Mileage will vary,
Sky

 

[Batdude]

1. Disable Win10 search indexing (I hate that it slows stuff down. I always disable windows search indexing period.)

I just checked and search indexing looks completely clean. Thanks for the tip.

Not sure if you actually disabled Win10 search indexing. Here's the procedure:

1. Press the windows key + r
2. Enter into the run text box: services.msc
3. Scroll down to "Windows search"
   1. Does it show "Disabled"?
4. If not, right click "Windows search" and click properties
5. Change "Startup type" to disabled.
6. Click OK.

Disabling windows search indexing is a personal choice. Some say it's not necessary with a fast CPU. Others say it helps with slow CPUs or using SSD. I found that while indexing is going on it slows down my PC so I always disable it.

Plus when I used to have windows search enabled, I saw where a windows search did not find a file that I knew was on my drive. I switched to the free "Agent ransack" program and it found the file. Agent Ransack does not do indexing so its search takes longer but it is 100% reliable. My windows "no find" search was a long time ago so I don't know if Win10's search is 100% reliable now (probably is). But IMO why have windows search indexing slowing down my PC when I want my PC to run at optimum speed all the time. I don't do searches enough to make search indexing worth it.

Mileage will vary,
Sky

Hello Sky,

Oh okay I guess I was looking at a different search indexing hahaha

Yes it was running and I went ahead and disabled it. From what I can see it makes no difference in speed. Thanks for the clear step by step instructions above.

 

[Batdude]

It's only slower on the sustained transfer, and that's common with the ADATA drives.

One dumb question what is sustained transfer mean?

 

[Robert Zanatta]

Large copy of data all at once, like a 50GB file from one drive to another.