FlashSync speed of 1D with AlienBees

[wojtek32666]

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.

In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?

Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[Paul Ferrara]

Yes, you can use the sync cord.

Interesting that the 1D syncs at 1/500. That could come in handy. That's probably too high for the 'bees, but you can likely go higher than 1/125. Try 1/200 or 1/250.

Paul
http://www.paulsportraits.com

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[padeye99656]

All the Alien Bees have a short duration flash. The B1600 is 1/1500 at full power and the other units are proportionally faster. I had no problem shooting at 1/500 with a leaf shutter film camera and I often shoot with my Dimage a 1/1000 to completely eliminate ambient light from the exposure.

Interesting that the 1D syncs at 1/500. That could come in handy.
That's probably too high for the 'bees, but you can likely go
higher than 1/125. Try 1/200 or 1/250.

Paul
http://www.paulsportraits.com

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--

 

[Jason Stoller]

Hi Wojtek. I am not shooting bees, but the 1D is the only Digital Canon that has a 250V pc sync socket. On page 114 in the manual is suggests that if you are using large studio lights that they recommend using 1/125. While we know the 1D is capable of sync speeds up to 1/500 with compact flash units, we would have to test to see if the higher sync speeds are possible. Have fun with your new lights. I was going to buy Bees and still might do that later but I picked up a used set of Speedotrons which seem to be working out well for me. Keep me posted on how your Bees work out.

Jason

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

 

[Jason Stoller]

According to the Faq's on Alien Bees site, their lights are rated at 5V. Since the 1D has a 250V pc socket, It appears that you would be ok!

Jason

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]

We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their new products!

 

[Mastrianni]

wojtek,

The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously.

HTH
Mastrianni

 

[wojtek32666]

Thank you for your help. I will test 1D together with AB at 1/500s and post the results.
Regards,
Wojtek

Jason

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--
Jason Stoller [email protected]
We are just Beta Testers who pay the Camera Companies to test their
new products!

--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[wojtek32666]

Excellent news,
Thanks,
Wojtek

wojtek,

The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it
has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration
is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor
has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a
lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously.

HTH
Mastrianni

--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[Bimthecat]

I believe the following is hogwash:

The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it
has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration
is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor
has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a
lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously.

Other than the camera itself, what MOSTLY determines max X sync is the
'gating speed' of the the trigger circuit in the flash unit.
Flash duration is a secondary consideration.

With the Nikon D1,H,X and Canon 1D the 'practical' max X sync is
a 500th with on-camera flash,
or with a sync wire/cord from camera to flash.

If you use any 'wireless' sync transmitter the 'practical' max X sync
is a 250th. In some cases 200th or 160th.
This is due to 'longer (slower)' 'gating speed' in the sync 'chain' .
Which is inherent in all sync transmitters.

Big, realtively long duration strobes,
(like Norman 1212, 2000D, 2424 and Speedo 1200's, 2400's, 4800's)
might be best with 125th.

 

[Mastrianni]

You can believe it is "hogwash" all you want. Unfortunately, you don't know what you're talking about. I am unfamiliar with the Alien Bees, but I can tell you that some Profoto units at their lowest power settings have flash durations as fast as 1/12,000 sec. The 1D was the camera in question. I regularly sync at 1/2000 sec, for the purpose of eliminating ambient light. If you don't have a 1D, and haven't tested it, don't comment. MOST cameras CANNOT do this, but the 1D can.

Regards
Mastrianni

The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it
has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration
is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor
has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a
lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously.

Other than the camera itself, what MOSTLY determines max X sync is the
'gating speed' of the the trigger circuit in the flash unit.
Flash duration is a secondary consideration.

With the Nikon D1,H,X and Canon 1D the 'practical' max X sync is
a 500th with on-camera flash,
or with a sync wire/cord from camera to flash.

If you use any 'wireless' sync transmitter the 'practical' max X sync
is a 250th. In some cases 200th or 160th.
This is due to 'longer (slower)' 'gating speed' in the sync
'chain' .
Which is inherent in all sync transmitters.

Big, realtively long duration strobes,
(like Norman 1212, 2000D, 2424 and Speedo 1200's, 2400's, 4800's)
might be best with 125th.

 

[Mastrianni]

BTW, I only use "wireless" radio transmitters.

Mastrianni

 

[Bimthecat]

Still Hoggwash !

"The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously."

If the above were true, the camera would have to 'know' when the actual capacitive discharge, of the flash, occured.
And since it's a 'passive' sync connection (either wired or transmitter),
there is NO communication between camera and flash.

I say, still hogwash.

Further, your sync transmitter has a 'gating' delay of at least 200ms.
By the time your Profoto strobes get the cue to fire, your Canon, at a 2000th
shutter speed, has already closed the shutter!

It's impossible.

Post a photo.
Shoot a sample indoors with only Profoto flash illumination,
no ambient light, at a 2000th shutter speed.

 

[Bimthecat]

Canon USA says: Hogwash

Goto:
http://www.usa.canon.com/EOS-1D/features_perf.html

It says, about the 1D:

“EX-series EOS Speedlites can sync to an amazing 1/500th of a second.”

Don't you think, if Canon had re-written physics as we know it,
they would claim so ?!?

Hey, I wish I were wrong...
Post a photo, at a 2000th of a sec X-sync, using a sync transmitter.

 

[Mastrianni]

Bimthecat,

I will say it again,....because you obviously don't understand english. I DO IT ALL THE TIME!!! And, Canon is aware of it,.....I am on the NY board of directors for APA,....Canon is one of our sponsors. Are you just being argumentative for fun? Or, are you one of those "know it alls" who is never wrong? Either way, try to learn something.
1/2000 sec
F 5.6
Shot outside, sunny day.
Wireless sync

To test ambient light, I first shoot a frame without strobe,...the image is totally black. This tells me how much ambient is in the shot.

http://www.mastrianniphoto.com/f23.html

If you still don't "get it", it would be futile for me to continue trying to explain it. So, get over it.

Mastrianni

 

[Bimthecat]

Bimthecat,

I will say it again,....because you obviously don't understand
english. I DO IT ALL THE TIME!!! And, Canon is aware of it,.....I
am on the NY board of directors for APA,....Canon is one of our
sponsors. Are you just being argumentative for fun? Or, are you one
of those "know it alls" who is never wrong? Either way, try to
learn something.

Not a "know it all".
Actually, I am wrong as much as anyone,
but I still don't think I am wrong about this.
What's interesting, and why I keep responding, is that you say it works.

It contradicts the world as I know it, that's all.

When you release the shutter, the first opening blade of the
shutter reaches the other side, the x-sync contacts are now closed.
This trips the trigger chip in your sync transmitter.
Then the reciever on the Profoto pack gets the signal to
tell the pack to discharge the capacitors into the Xenon filled
flash tube.
You have 2 trigger circuits in series.
The radio sync delay, plus the Profoto sync delay.
All be it, that these 'delays' are small, but added together.
For all this to happen in a shutter speed of a 2000th
seems unworldly. Not real.

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?
With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a 2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Call me surprised.

 

[wojtek32666]

I got my Bees last night. I tried already 1/500s with great results. Will psot more tonite.
Regards,
Wojtek

The 1D can sync as high as the flash duration of the strobe,....it
has no limit despite what the manual says. If your flash duration
is 1/2000 sec, you can sync at that speed. The 1D's image sensor
has an electronic shutter that acts much like a leaf sensor in a
lens, in that it exposes the whole frame simulatneously.

Other than the camera itself, what MOSTLY determines max X sync is the
'gating speed' of the the trigger circuit in the flash unit.
Flash duration is a secondary consideration.

With the Nikon D1,H,X and Canon 1D the 'practical' max X sync is
a 500th with on-camera flash,
or with a sync wire/cord from camera to flash.

If you use any 'wireless' sync transmitter the 'practical' max X sync
is a 250th. In some cases 200th or 160th.
This is due to 'longer (slower)' 'gating speed' in the sync
'chain' .
Which is inherent in all sync transmitters.

Big, realtively long duration strobes,
(like Norman 1212, 2000D, 2424 and Speedo 1200's, 2400's, 4800's)
might be best with 125th.

--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[Mastrianni]

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?

Don't know,...I don't use E-TTL, or TTL anything. But if the flash duration is less than 1/500,...sure. It can sync at about 1/1000 on a Metz potato masher set at 1/16th power. BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT. And, it matches the incident meter.

With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Sync "radio delay" is negligible, although I'm not much of a theory guy, I just know what works. But, higher speeds are possible with auto-thyristor type units,...again, totally dependent on full discharge time of light. These are the only ones I use, along with strobes, and, therefore, have tried.

This is not ALL Canon's that can do this. Just, (apparently) the 1D. I have NOT tried this with 1Ds yet. And the explanation above, by Canon and 2 other photogs, was why. (the imager acts like a leaf shutter,...the electronic shutter really can go to 1/8000 sec. But, there are diminishing returns above about 1/2000 sec. And, strobes are not always consistent in their discharge rates.

HTH
Mastrianni

 

[Ken McVay]

I sync way above 1/500 with my D1x and D1h on a regular basis using Pocket Wizards

With a digtal such as the x and h there is no second shutter to get in the way. That i why they are rated at 1/500. The cdd is gated on and off for the correct amount of time.

I don't know how high one can go but I go to 1/1600 on a regular basis when photography humming birds. This gives me the ability to eliminate ambient all together.

The exposure is always right on too. I expect this to stay true as long as the flash duration is shorter than the amount of time the ccd collects data.

I am sure there is a limit. I suspect it would come from the delay of the pocket wizard.

Here is just one link to the pocket wizard forums that discusses this
http://www.macuserforums.com/[email protected] ^[email protected]/0

If the link does not work just go to
http://www.pocketwizard.com/

and click on user forums and the search for "D1x" and "sync" and you will find more info.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

 

[wojtek32666]

I just confirmed that I could get good images with a sync speed 1/2000s. Haven't tried faster yet
I love my AlienBees....
Wojtek

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?

Don't know,...I don't use E-TTL, or TTL anything. But if the flash
duration is less than 1/500,...sure. It can sync at about 1/1000 on
a Metz potato masher set at 1/16th power. BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT.
And, it matches the incident meter.

With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Sync "radio delay" is negligible, although I'm not much of a theory
guy, I just know what works. But, higher speeds are possible with
auto-thyristor type units,...again, totally dependent on full
discharge time of light. These are the only ones I use, along with
strobes, and, therefore, have tried.

This is not ALL Canon's that can do this. Just, (apparently) the
1D. I have NOT tried this with 1Ds yet. And the explanation above,
by Canon and 2 other photogs, was why. (the imager acts like a leaf
shutter,...the electronic shutter really can go to 1/8000 sec. But,
there are diminishing returns above about 1/2000 sec. And, strobes
are not always consistent in their discharge rates.

HTH
Mastrianni

--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

 

[Stephen Eastwood]

the 1DS does not sync this fast but Mastrianni is correct in saying the 1D does! try it and you'll see yourself rather then argue an easily proovable point.

Stephen

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?

Don't know,...I don't use E-TTL, or TTL anything. But if the flash
duration is less than 1/500,...sure. It can sync at about 1/1000 on
a Metz potato masher set at 1/16th power. BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT.
And, it matches the incident meter.

With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Sync "radio delay" is negligible, although I'm not much of a theory
guy, I just know what works. But, higher speeds are possible with
auto-thyristor type units,...again, totally dependent on full
discharge time of light. These are the only ones I use, along with
strobes, and, therefore, have tried.

This is not ALL Canon's that can do this. Just, (apparently) the
1D. I have NOT tried this with 1Ds yet. And the explanation above,
by Canon and 2 other photogs, was why. (the imager acts like a leaf
shutter,...the electronic shutter really can go to 1/8000 sec. But,
there are diminishing returns above about 1/2000 sec. And, strobes
are not always consistent in their discharge rates.

HTH
Mastrianni

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com