FlashSync speed of 1D with AlienBees

[Stephen Eastwood]

in the manual page 106 High_Speed Sync (FP Flash)

High-speed sync (FP or Focal-plane flash) enables flash synchonization with all shutter speeds from 30 sec. to 1-16000th sec.

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?
With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Call me surprised.

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

 

[BKKSW]

This is kind of a silly argument..

The sync speed is purely academic in the most common studio sitiuations. Let me explain..

The only ambeit light in the studio is almost always the modelling lamps, and these are automatically turned off when the strobe turns on. This makes the strobe duration the "effective" shutter speed.

An Alien Bee's flash duration is 1/24,000th. You can stop the spokes of a motorcycle at 100mph at 1/500th, so what's the use of 1/2000th anyway? I routinely sync at 1/125th with my D100 when used with the wireless transmitter/receiver Alien Bee package. This is the only wireless sync setup which allows for full control of each individual modelling light or strobe, or controls them all together. Other wireless sync transmitter/receivers only provide sync..

Alien Bee's are great "on-site" lights, being highly durable and lightweight, and work equally well in a studio, so they were my choice.

Having some fun doing the "Panning Assignment" on Photosig I built a wire (coat hanger) trapeze with a 1" dowel for a perch, painted it all black, suspended it from the ceiling with a black nylon rope, and had my assistant hold the trapeze (with bird attached) over his head and them "let him fly."

My trained "stunt bird" flew off the first few times, but then started enjoying the "ride" by flapping his wings and almost "carrying" the lighweight trapeze along it's intended course.. I was able to "step into it" and get some frontal shots, and the "step out of it' and get him going away from me.. He really got into it, and now for fun he likes to play on the trapeze..

The reason for this story, is if you can stop a birds wings at 1/125th, why worry about a higher sync speed? What could you possibly be photographing that would require more than 1/24,000th?

f I could figure out a way to sync it, I'd like to try catching a .45 bullet exiting the barrel of a 1911 Colt handgun.. Anyone have any experience with this? I have a RANSOM REST that securely holds the handgun (a vise like device) and a bullet trap, so the safety factor is taken care of, and I could custom load the cartridge with the right amount of powder to "download" it to about 6550 fps (feet per second), and I'd want to use an assortment of different bullet types, some chrome looking, some copper, some brass, etc.. I think the 1/24,000th is fast enough, but syncing the gun to the camera is where I need some ideas..

Anyway, below is the result of my highly trained stunt bird..,.Don't try this at home folks.. Comments welcome..

BKKSW

 

[Stephen Eastwood]

Pocket Wizard makes a triggering device, one based on sound and one on motion Breaking a beam of light they trigger the camera, as for stopping the bullet a fast flash duration is needed, and I have a difficult time believeing taht an alien bee is 1 / 24000 of a sec maybe 1 2400 since most high speed strobes have durations of 1/6000-1/10000 sec,

One other point, in a dark room the camera speed is irrelavant, the flash actually stops the action and freezes time on the ccd/cmos/film, you can have a 5 sec exposure and pop a flash by hand in an unlit room and still freeze a birds wings, this has nothing to do with shutter speed until the shutter speed is slow enough combined with the aperature to allow ambient light to be recorded.

This is kind of a silly argument..

The sync speed is purely academic in the most common studio
sitiuations. Let me explain..

The only ambeit light in the studio is almost always the modelling
lamps, and these are automatically turned off when the strobe turns
on. This makes the strobe duration the "effective" shutter speed.

An Alien Bee's flash duration is 1/24,000th. You can stop the
spokes of a motorcycle at 100mph at 1/500th, so what's the use of
1/2000th anyway? I routinely sync at 1/125th with my D100 when
used with the wireless transmitter/receiver Alien Bee package.
This is the only wireless sync setup which allows for full control
of each individual modelling light or strobe, or controls them all
together. Other wireless sync transmitter/receivers only provide
sync..

Alien Bee's are great "on-site" lights, being highly durable and
lightweight, and work equally well in a studio, so they were my
choice.

Having some fun doing the "Panning Assignment" on Photosig I built
a wire (coat hanger) trapeze with a 1" dowel for a perch, painted
it all black, suspended it from the ceiling with a black nylon
rope, and had my assistant hold the trapeze (with bird attached)
over his head and them "let him fly."

My trained "stunt bird" flew off the first few times, but then
started enjoying the "ride" by flapping his wings and almost
"carrying" the lighweight trapeze along it's intended course.. I
was able to "step into it" and get some frontal shots, and the
"step out of it' and get him going away from me.. He really got
into it, and now for fun he likes to play on the trapeze..

The reason for this story, is if you can stop a birds wings at
1/125th, why worry about a higher sync speed? What could you
possibly be photographing that would require more than 1/24,000th?

f I could figure out a way to sync it, I'd like to try catching a
.45 bullet exiting the barrel of a 1911 Colt handgun.. Anyone have
any experience with this? I have a RANSOM REST that securely holds
the handgun (a vise like device) and a bullet trap, so the safety
factor is taken care of, and I could custom load the cartridge with
the right amount of powder to "download" it to about 6550 fps (feet
per second), and I'd want to use an assortment of different bullet
types, some chrome looking, some copper, some brass, etc.. I think
the 1/24,000th is fast enough, but syncing the gun to the camera is
where I need some ideas..

Anyway, below is the result of my highly trained stunt
bird..,.Don't try this at home folks.. Comments welcome..

BKKSW

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

 

[BKKSW]

Pocket Wizard makes a triggering device, one based on sound and one
on motion Breaking a beam of light they trigger the camera, as
for stopping the bullet a fast flash duration is needed, and I have
a difficult time believeing taht an alien bee is 1 / 24000 of a sec
maybe 1 2400 since most high speed strobes have durations of
1/6000-1/10000 sec,

Interesting, I'll have to check on this, a beam of light being broke by the failing hammer might do it..

Your right, I went back to the web site and checked, the B800 was 1/3200. I just remembered it was high enough to never have to worry about sync speed which was my point.. which seems to be your point in the paragraph below.. This is why I said this sync speed argument was silly.. since it depends on the flash duration and not the actually shutter speed..

On the bullet stopping..Syncing the shutter release to the bullet is the hard part, I wouldn't have to use strobes, a hot light would work nicely for this sort of shot (pardont the pun) as the .45 isn't likely to complain about the heat.. You wouldn't know if the Pocket Wizards with the sync to the sound/light would have an adjustable delay or/and if they can be hooked up to trigger the camera instead of the lights would you?

One other point, in a dark room the camera speed is irrelavant, the
flash actually stops the action and freezes time on the
ccd/cmos/film, you can have a 5 sec exposure and pop a flash by
hand in an unlit room and still freeze a birds wings, this has
nothing to do with shutter speed until the shutter speed is slow
enough combined with the aperature to allow ambient light to be
recorded.

Yep.. This was my point.. Using 1/60th or 1/500th just doesn't matter in a studio. unless the ambeit light level is really high which it really shouldn't be..

BKKSW

This is kind of a silly argument..

The sync speed is purely academic in the most common studio
sitiuations. Let me explain..

The only ambeit light in the studio is almost always the modelling
lamps, and these are automatically turned off when the strobe turns
on. This makes the strobe duration the "effective" shutter speed.

An Alien Bee's flash duration is 1/24,000th. You can stop the
spokes of a motorcycle at 100mph at 1/500th, so what's the use of
1/2000th anyway? I routinely sync at 1/125th with my D100 when
used with the wireless transmitter/receiver Alien Bee package.
This is the only wireless sync setup which allows for full control
of each individual modelling light or strobe, or controls them all
together. Other wireless sync transmitter/receivers only provide
sync..

Alien Bee's are great "on-site" lights, being highly durable and
lightweight, and work equally well in a studio, so they were my
choice.

Having some fun doing the "Panning Assignment" on Photosig I built
a wire (coat hanger) trapeze with a 1" dowel for a perch, painted
it all black, suspended it from the ceiling with a black nylon
rope, and had my assistant hold the trapeze (with bird attached)
over his head and them "let him fly."

My trained "stunt bird" flew off the first few times, but then
started enjoying the "ride" by flapping his wings and almost
"carrying" the lighweight trapeze along it's intended course.. I
was able to "step into it" and get some frontal shots, and the
"step out of it' and get him going away from me.. He really got
into it, and now for fun he likes to play on the trapeze..

The reason for this story, is if you can stop a birds wings at
1/125th, why worry about a higher sync speed? What could you
possibly be photographing that would require more than 1/24,000th?

f I could figure out a way to sync it, I'd like to try catching a
.45 bullet exiting the barrel of a 1911 Colt handgun.. Anyone have
any experience with this? I have a RANSOM REST that securely holds
the handgun (a vise like device) and a bullet trap, so the safety
factor is taken care of, and I could custom load the cartridge with
the right amount of powder to "download" it to about 6550 fps (feet
per second), and I'd want to use an assortment of different bullet
types, some chrome looking, some copper, some brass, etc.. I think
the 1/24,000th is fast enough, but syncing the gun to the camera is
where I need some ideas..

Anyway, below is the result of my highly trained stunt
bird..,.Don't try this at home folks.. Comments welcome..

BKKSW

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

 

[Ken McVay]

quote

Your right, I went back to the web site and checked, the B800 was ?> 1/3200. I just remembered it was high enough to never have to worry > about sync speed which was my point.. which seems to be your point in > the paragraph below.. This is why I said this sync speed argument was > silly.. since it depends on the flash duration and not the actually shutter > speed..

Nope, not a "silly" argument at all. If you knew more about photographing really fast moving objects in bright sunlight you would not be saying this.

You photographed your stunt bird in a studio with low lights. In this case ambient was never a factor as the flash output overpowered the low light in your studio. Now suppose you want to stop a hummingbirds wings outside in full sunlight. For this you need short duration lights. Most flash units will work when set on low power manual. The catch is ... when set on 1/32, 1/16 or 1/8 which is generally what it takes to stop wing motion, you also lose flash output. So you end up having to put the flash units very close to the subject just to get enough output to overpower the ambient.

Now the fun part, faster shutter speeds mean you can work in brighter ambient conditions i.e. full sunlight without recording a ghosting image from the ambient. When photographing hummingbirds, it is best to work in shade if at all possible if your cameras sync speed is under 1/250. Otherwise you will get a ghosting which is really not bad and produces some very nice images.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

 

[Stephen Eastwood]

yes they have adjustable delays, but hotlights would likely not be bright enough for a shutter speed fast enough to actually stop the bullet, your better off doing this in a dark room with a long sutter and letting the flash actually stop the bullet or freeze the bullet on the chip/film, just a thought.

Pocket Wizard makes a triggering device, one based on sound and one
on motion Breaking a beam of light they trigger the camera, as
for stopping the bullet a fast flash duration is needed, and I have
a difficult time believeing taht an alien bee is 1 / 24000 of a sec
maybe 1 2400 since most high speed strobes have durations of
1/6000-1/10000 sec,

Interesting, I'll have to check on this, a beam of light being
broke by the failing hammer might do it..

Your right, I went back to the web site and checked, the B800 was
1/3200. I just remembered it was high enough to never have to
worry about sync speed which was my point.. which seems to be your
point in the paragraph below.. This is why I said this sync speed
argument was silly.. since it depends on the flash duration and not
the actually shutter speed..

On the bullet stopping..Syncing the shutter release to the bullet
is the hard part, I wouldn't have to use strobes, a hot light would
work nicely for this sort of shot (pardont the pun) as the .45
isn't likely to complain about the heat.. You wouldn't know if the
Pocket Wizards with the sync to the sound/light would have an
adjustable delay or/and if they can be hooked up to trigger the
camera instead of the lights would you?

One other point, in a dark room the camera speed is irrelavant, the
flash actually stops the action and freezes time on the
ccd/cmos/film, you can have a 5 sec exposure and pop a flash by
hand in an unlit room and still freeze a birds wings, this has
nothing to do with shutter speed until the shutter speed is slow
enough combined with the aperature to allow ambient light to be
recorded.

Yep.. This was my point.. Using 1/60th or 1/500th just doesn't
matter in a studio. unless the ambeit light level is really high
which it really shouldn't be..

BKKSW

This is kind of a silly argument..

The sync speed is purely academic in the most common studio
sitiuations. Let me explain..

The only ambeit light in the studio is almost always the modelling
lamps, and these are automatically turned off when the strobe turns
on. This makes the strobe duration the "effective" shutter speed.

An Alien Bee's flash duration is 1/24,000th. You can stop the
spokes of a motorcycle at 100mph at 1/500th, so what's the use of
1/2000th anyway? I routinely sync at 1/125th with my D100 when
used with the wireless transmitter/receiver Alien Bee package.
This is the only wireless sync setup which allows for full control
of each individual modelling light or strobe, or controls them all
together. Other wireless sync transmitter/receivers only provide
sync..

Alien Bee's are great "on-site" lights, being highly durable and
lightweight, and work equally well in a studio, so they were my
choice.

Having some fun doing the "Panning Assignment" on Photosig I built
a wire (coat hanger) trapeze with a 1" dowel for a perch, painted
it all black, suspended it from the ceiling with a black nylon
rope, and had my assistant hold the trapeze (with bird attached)
over his head and them "let him fly."

My trained "stunt bird" flew off the first few times, but then
started enjoying the "ride" by flapping his wings and almost
"carrying" the lighweight trapeze along it's intended course.. I
was able to "step into it" and get some frontal shots, and the
"step out of it' and get him going away from me.. He really got
into it, and now for fun he likes to play on the trapeze..

The reason for this story, is if you can stop a birds wings at
1/125th, why worry about a higher sync speed? What could you
possibly be photographing that would require more than 1/24,000th?

f I could figure out a way to sync it, I'd like to try catching a
.45 bullet exiting the barrel of a 1911 Colt handgun.. Anyone have
any experience with this? I have a RANSOM REST that securely holds
the handgun (a vise like device) and a bullet trap, so the safety
factor is taken care of, and I could custom load the cartridge with
the right amount of powder to "download" it to about 6550 fps (feet
per second), and I'd want to use an assortment of different bullet
types, some chrome looking, some copper, some brass, etc.. I think
the 1/24,000th is fast enough, but syncing the gun to the camera is
where I need some ideas..

Anyway, below is the result of my highly trained stunt
bird..,.Don't try this at home folks.. Comments welcome..

BKKSW

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

 

[BKKSW]

Your probably right.. I wrote to a really good firearm photog who does this stuff for some advice. I might end up buying a short duration light and a special sync control just for this.. It's for a product shoot and fortunately I have some time to complete it..

Thaniks for the help..

BKKSW

yes they have adjustable delays, but hotlights would likely not be
bright enough for a shutter speed fast enough to actually stop the
bullet, your better off doing this in a dark room with a long
sutter and letting the flash actually stop the bullet or freeze the
bullet on the chip/film, just a thought.

 

[BKKSW]

It is a silly argument if you realise that they were talking about a studio situation with studio lights.. I realise there is much work done outside with studio lights, mostly photographing models,etc..

For the use you describe I just use my OM-3ti or OM-4ti with the F280 FP flash that syncs at any speed with a stofen.. I've never seen anyone setting up studio lights for a humming bird.

You can do this with precious few cameras. The OM series was the first to allow FP sync, followed by Minolta, and then Nikon I believe.. You can sync up to 1/4000th with any of these setups except a OM series which only goes to 1/2000th.. But I've stopped many a hummingbrd wings at under 1/1000th with great liighting usiing a camera set up to use these special strobes.

My point was, that in a studio with the only lights coiming from the stiudio lights, it's not the cameras shutter speed that stops action.. It's the flash duration, and virtually ALL studio flashed have enough speed to stop a any action you can think of (except a speeding bullet perhaps) in a studio.. Many people don't understand this. You can shoot in a studio with 1/30th or 1/500th and it makes NO difference if the only ambeit light is coming from modelling lights which shut themselves off during teh duration of the flash.

BKKSW

Your right, I went back to the web site and checked, the B800 was ?> 1/3200. I just remembered it was high enough to never have to worry > about sync speed which was my point.. which seems to be your point in > the paragraph below.. This is why I said this sync speed argument was > silly.. since it depends on the flash duration and not the actually shutter > speed..

Nope, not a "silly" argument at all. If you knew more about
photographing really fast moving objects in bright sunlight you
would not be saying this.

You photographed your stunt bird in a studio with low lights. In
this case ambient was never a factor as the flash output
overpowered the low light in your studio. Now suppose you want to
stop a hummingbirds wings outside in full sunlight. For this you
need short duration lights. Most flash units will work when set on
low power manual. The catch is ... when set on 1/32, 1/16 or 1/8
which is generally what it takes to stop wing motion, you also lose
flash output. So you end up having to put the flash units very
close to the subject just to get enough output to overpower the
ambient.

Now the fun part, faster shutter speeds mean you can work in
brighter ambient conditions i.e. full sunlight without recording a
ghosting image from the ambient. When photographing hummingbirds,
it is best to work in shade if at all possible if your cameras sync
speed is under 1/250. Otherwise you will get a ghosting which is
really not bad and produces some very nice images.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

 

[Ken McVay]

Ah, of course you are correct about a studio setting. My orginal post was only to argue the point that a digital slr could indeed sync higher than the 1/500.

For you bullet image, you will have much better luck if you let the tigger fire the flash in a dark room and just hold the shutter open on the camera. Nosie might become a problem with digital and it might be better to use a film body.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

It is a silly argument if you realise that they were talking about
a studio situation with studio lights.. I realise there is much
work done outside with studio lights, mostly photographing
models,etc..

For the use you describe I just use my OM-3ti or OM-4ti with the
F280 FP flash that syncs at any speed with a stofen.. I've never
seen anyone setting up studio lights for a humming bird.

You can do this with precious few cameras. The OM series was the
first to allow FP sync, followed by Minolta, and then Nikon I
believe.. You can sync up to 1/4000th with any of these setups
except a OM series which only goes to 1/2000th.. But I've stopped
many a hummingbrd wings at under 1/1000th with great liighting
usiing a camera set up to use these special strobes.

My point was, that in a studio with the only lights coiming from
the stiudio lights, it's not the cameras shutter speed that stops
action.. It's the flash duration, and virtually ALL studio flashed
have enough speed to stop a any action you can think of (except a
speeding bullet perhaps) in a studio.. Many people don't understand
this. You can shoot in a studio with 1/30th or 1/500th and it
makes NO difference if the only ambeit light is coming from
modelling lights which shut themselves off during teh duration of
the flash.

BKKSW

 

[Duncan C]

Bimthecat,

I also have taken flash pictures at very high shutterspeeds, with different equipment.

I shoot with a Nikon D1X and Elenchrom Style 300 flashes. These flashes have fast discharge (1/1250th of a second, as I recall.)

The Nikon D1X is another camera that has a hybrid mechanical/electronic shutter, and can sync at very high speeds. Most focal plane shutter cameras can't do this.

I did some tests, and was able to get good results at speeds up to 1/4000th of a second. Since my studio flashes take 1/1250th of a second for a full power discharge, there is some light loss at higher shutterspeeds. At 1/500th, there was NO light loss compared to 1/60th. At 1/4000th, I was losing about 2 stops of light. When you use shutterspeeds faster than the full discharge time of your flashes, the results will be very hard to predict, since the light output of the flashes is not linear over time.

As I understand it, the flash discharges within a few tens of nanoseconds of the camera closing the circuit on the sync connnector. I don't know about extra delay introduced by a radio sync unit, since I use hard-wired sync cables.

Battery powered, hotshoe mounted flashes tend to be much slower discharging. My Nikon Speedlight manual says that at sync shutterspeeds faster than 1/250th, you will get reduced flash effectiveness since the shutter will close before the flash is done discharging.

The picture below was taken with 2 300 WS studio flashes at 1/1000th of a second and f32, in full sunlight. If the flashes didn't fire when the shutter was open, the picture would have been black.



Duncan C
-----

Bimthecat,

I will say it again,....because you obviously don't understand
english. I DO IT ALL THE TIME!!! And, Canon is aware of it,.....I
am on the NY board of directors for APA,....Canon is one of our
sponsors. Are you just being argumentative for fun? Or, are you one
of those "know it alls" who is never wrong? Either way, try to
learn something.

Not a "know it all".
Actually, I am wrong as much as anyone,
but I still don't think I am wrong about this.
What's interesting, and why I keep responding, is that you say it
works.

It contradicts the world as I know it, that's all.

When you release the shutter, the first opening blade of the
shutter reaches the other side, the x-sync contacts are now closed.
This trips the trigger chip in your sync transmitter.
Then the reciever on the Profoto pack gets the signal to
tell the pack to discharge the capacitors into the Xenon filled
flash tube.
You have 2 trigger circuits in series.
The radio sync delay, plus the Profoto sync delay.
All be it, that these 'delays' are small, but added together.
For all this to happen in a shutter speed of a 2000th
seems unworldly. Not real.

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?
With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Call me surprised.

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

 

[garberf]

I wonder if you can still sync at 1/500 using a wireless (either IR or radio) trigger? Any thoughts?

Frank

Interesting that the 1D syncs at 1/500. That could come in handy.
That's probably too high for the 'bees, but you can likely go
higher than 1/125. Try 1/200 or 1/250.

Paul
http://www.paulsportraits.com

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--

 

[Duncan C]

BKKSW,

Unfortunately, none of the Nikon D1 series has a mirror lock-up, so the ONLY way you're going to time a shot of a speeding bullet is with a fairly long shutterspeed and a carefully timed flash. The mirror will take way to long to flip out of the way. The bullet will already be in the bullet trap before the shutter opens. (The mirror lock-up feature in Nikons is for CCD cleaning, and prevents taking pictures)

Mamyia sells a device called the Digital Wave that would let you fire your strobe with either sound or photocell. I'd think the best way would be to have the bullet break the beam of a photocell.

The Mamyia device is expensive. (about $800, as I recall) There are various links to home-made rigs you can build for under $100 if you're interested.

Rig your camera for a 5-second exposure or so, then fire the pistol during that 5 seconds in a pitch-black studio and you'd be all set. 5 seconds should be a fast enough exposure to avoid dark channel noise issues.

Depending on how fast the flash fiires after the beam is broken, you might need to point your camera beyond the point where your photocell is pointing. I'd suggest taking a test shot with the camera pretty far away and a yardstick in the frame, parallel to the bullet's path. Then note where the bullet appears in the picture, reframe, and shoot again (ain't digital wonderful?)

Duncan C

--------

For you bullet image, you will have much better luck if you let the
tigger fire the flash in a dark room and just hold the shutter open
on the camera. Nosie might become a problem with digital and it
might be better to use a film body.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

It is a silly argument if you realise that they were talking about
a studio situation with studio lights.. I realise there is much
work done outside with studio lights, mostly photographing
models,etc..

For the use you describe I just use my OM-3ti or OM-4ti with the
F280 FP flash that syncs at any speed with a stofen.. I've never
seen anyone setting up studio lights for a humming bird.

You can do this with precious few cameras. The OM series was the
first to allow FP sync, followed by Minolta, and then Nikon I
believe.. You can sync up to 1/4000th with any of these setups
except a OM series which only goes to 1/2000th.. But I've stopped
many a hummingbrd wings at under 1/1000th with great liighting
usiing a camera set up to use these special strobes.

My point was, that in a studio with the only lights coiming from
the stiudio lights, it's not the cameras shutter speed that stops
action.. It's the flash duration, and virtually ALL studio flashed
have enough speed to stop a any action you can think of (except a
speeding bullet perhaps) in a studio.. Many people don't understand
this. You can shoot in a studio with 1/30th or 1/500th and it
makes NO difference if the only ambeit light is coming from
modelling lights which shut themselves off during teh duration of
the flash.

BKKSW

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

 

[Duncan C]

Here's a link to a thread with info on making your own flash/camera trigger, if your budget is limited:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3893046

Duncan C
------

Unfortunately, none of the Nikon D1 series has a mirror lock-up, so
the ONLY way you're going to time a shot of a speeding bullet is
with a fairly long shutterspeed and a carefully timed flash. The
mirror will take way to long to flip out of the way. The bullet
will already be in the bullet trap before the shutter opens. (The
mirror lock-up feature in Nikons is for CCD cleaning, and prevents
taking pictures)

Mamyia sells a device called the Digital Wave that would let you
fire your strobe with either sound or photocell. I'd think the best
way would be to have the bullet break the beam of a photocell.

The Mamyia device is expensive. (about $800, as I recall) There are
various links to home-made rigs you can build for under $100 if
you're interested.

Rig your camera for a 5-second exposure or so, then fire the pistol
during that 5 seconds in a pitch-black studio and you'd be all set.
5 seconds should be a fast enough exposure to avoid dark channel
noise issues.

Depending on how fast the flash fiires after the beam is broken,
you might need to point your camera beyond the point where your
photocell is pointing. I'd suggest taking a test shot with the
camera pretty far away and a yardstick in the frame, parallel to
the bullet's path. Then note where the bullet appears in the
picture, reframe, and shoot again (ain't digital wonderful?)

Duncan C

--------

For you bullet image, you will have much better luck if you let the
tigger fire the flash in a dark room and just hold the shutter open
on the camera. Nosie might become a problem with digital and it
might be better to use a film body.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

It is a silly argument if you realise that they were talking about
a studio situation with studio lights.. I realise there is much
work done outside with studio lights, mostly photographing
models,etc..

For the use you describe I just use my OM-3ti or OM-4ti with the
F280 FP flash that syncs at any speed with a stofen.. I've never
seen anyone setting up studio lights for a humming bird.

You can do this with precious few cameras. The OM series was the
first to allow FP sync, followed by Minolta, and then Nikon I
believe.. You can sync up to 1/4000th with any of these setups
except a OM series which only goes to 1/2000th.. But I've stopped
many a hummingbrd wings at under 1/1000th with great liighting
usiing a camera set up to use these special strobes.

My point was, that in a studio with the only lights coiming from
the stiudio lights, it's not the cameras shutter speed that stops
action.. It's the flash duration, and virtually ALL studio flashed
have enough speed to stop a any action you can think of (except a
speeding bullet perhaps) in a studio.. Many people don't understand
this. You can shoot in a studio with 1/30th or 1/500th and it
makes NO difference if the only ambeit light is coming from
modelling lights which shut themselves off during teh duration of
the flash.

BKKSW

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

 

[BKKSW]

Duncan -

Thanks.. I'll chrcj yjos out. I have several SLRs with MKU, but as you said a few second exposure wouks work fine...

BKKSW

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3893046

Duncan C
------

Unfortunately, none of the Nikon D1 series has a mirror lock-up, so
the ONLY way you're going to time a shot of a speeding bullet is
with a fairly long shutterspeed and a carefully timed flash. The
mirror will take way to long to flip out of the way. The bullet
will already be in the bullet trap before the shutter opens. (The
mirror lock-up feature in Nikons is for CCD cleaning, and prevents
taking pictures)

Mamyia sells a device called the Digital Wave that would let you
fire your strobe with either sound or photocell. I'd think the best
way would be to have the bullet break the beam of a photocell.

The Mamyia device is expensive. (about $800, as I recall) There are
various links to home-made rigs you can build for under $100 if
you're interested.

Rig your camera for a 5-second exposure or so, then fire the pistol
during that 5 seconds in a pitch-black studio and you'd be all set.
5 seconds should be a fast enough exposure to avoid dark channel
noise issues.

Depending on how fast the flash fiires after the beam is broken,
you might need to point your camera beyond the point where your
photocell is pointing. I'd suggest taking a test shot with the
camera pretty far away and a yardstick in the frame, parallel to
the bullet's path. Then note where the bullet appears in the
picture, reframe, and shoot again (ain't digital wonderful?)

Duncan C

--------

For you bullet image, you will have much better luck if you let the
tigger fire the flash in a dark room and just hold the shutter open
on the camera. Nosie might become a problem with digital and it
might be better to use a film body.

Ken
http://kenmcvayphoto.clymbers.com

It is a silly argument if you realise that they were talking about
a studio situation with studio lights.. I realise there is much
work done outside with studio lights, mostly photographing
models,etc..

For the use you describe I just use my OM-3ti or OM-4ti with the
F280 FP flash that syncs at any speed with a stofen.. I've never
seen anyone setting up studio lights for a humming bird.

You can do this with precious few cameras. The OM series was the
first to allow FP sync, followed by Minolta, and then Nikon I
believe.. You can sync up to 1/4000th with any of these setups
except a OM series which only goes to 1/2000th.. But I've stopped
many a hummingbrd wings at under 1/1000th with great liighting
usiing a camera set up to use these special strobes.

My point was, that in a studio with the only lights coiming from
the stiudio lights, it's not the cameras shutter speed that stops
action.. It's the flash duration, and virtually ALL studio flashed
have enough speed to stop a any action you can think of (except a
speeding bullet perhaps) in a studio.. Many people don't understand
this. You can shoot in a studio with 1/30th or 1/500th and it
makes NO difference if the only ambeit light is coming from
modelling lights which shut themselves off during teh duration of
the flash.

BKKSW

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

--
http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

 

[garberf]

Frank

Interesting that the 1D syncs at 1/500. That could come in handy.
That's probably too high for the 'bees, but you can likely go
higher than 1/125. Try 1/200 or 1/250.

Paul
http://www.paulsportraits.com

I just placed an order for DigiBee set with B800 instead of B400.
In the meantime I am getting ready to connect AB to my Canon 1D and
have 2 questions.
First: Can I directly connect PC cord supplid with AB to my camera?
Second: What is the maximum X-Sync speed which I will be able to
use with ABs? Is it 1/500s (regular flash) or 1/125s which is
recommended for "...full size studio flash units...".
Regards,
Wojtek
--
http://aboutdigicam.com/forum/
'OneDee Shooter'

--

 

[Bern Caughey]

I wonder if you can still sync at 1/500 using a wireless (either IR
or radio) trigger? Any thoughts?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1025&message=3846561

 

[Peter Sills]

So, how fast is 1Ds?

Stephen

Another question:
Canon's on-camera flashes must then sync at a 2000th.
Do they ?

Don't know,...I don't use E-TTL, or TTL anything. But if the flash
duration is less than 1/500,...sure. It can sync at about 1/1000 on
a Metz potato masher set at 1/16th power. BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT.
And, it matches the incident meter.

With an on-camera flash, with NO sync radio delay, and their
VERY quick durations (at close range), should then also work at a
2000th.
Do they on your 1D ?

Sync "radio delay" is negligible, although I'm not much of a theory
guy, I just know what works. But, higher speeds are possible with
auto-thyristor type units,...again, totally dependent on full
discharge time of light. These are the only ones I use, along with
strobes, and, therefore, have tried.

This is not ALL Canon's that can do this. Just, (apparently) the
1D. I have NOT tried this with 1Ds yet. And the explanation above,
by Canon and 2 other photogs, was why. (the imager acts like a leaf
shutter,...the electronic shutter really can go to 1/8000 sec. But,
there are diminishing returns above about 1/2000 sec. And, strobes
are not always consistent in their discharge rates.

HTH
Mastrianni

--
Stephen Eastwood
http://www.nyphotographics.com

--
Peter Sills
Digital Focus
http://www.digitalfocus.net