Fixed Lens Cameras

[AeroPhotographer]

About Fixed Lens Cameras

Buying these cameras seem like photographic masochism to me. Amateur photographers eagerly pay thousands to give up their options.

They praise being freed from the burden of “the bag”. But of course they don’t have to buy a fixed lens camera to get free of the bag. They could just leave the bag home.

Some think the fixed lens camera is lighter. But full frame camera and lens combinations can be even lighter than the fixed lens cameras they emulate.

They trade interchangeable lenses and zoom lenses for zoom by crop. But they needn’t buy a fixed lens camera to do that. They can mount their favorite lens on their favorite camera body and venture forth.

And if that isn’t really a rigid enough straight jacket, they can mount that lens with a drop of Loctite and never change lenses again. Does that idea elicit horror? Is it any worse to hinder a used ILC and lens, perhaps worth $2,000, than to spend over $6000 for a fixed lens camera? If one creates his own fixed lens camera he can choose the lens, perhaps even a zoom, for greatly enhanced functionality. Oops! I forgot that these folks seek less functionality, not more.

The latest development in this craziness is the medium format fixed lens camera with an f4 lens and no IBIS. In the past decade, it’s unlikely that anyone had a real need for digital medium format. Sure, they shoot it, but did even one of their images get presented in a manner where medium format was perceivably better than full frame?

The following is quoted below with the kind permission of Petapixel.com

This comparison, by Norwegian professional photographer and photography teacher/author Magnar W. Fjørtoft, is backed up with a real test. He shot a scene of a shipyard containing great detail at f/8 on his old 12mp APS-C camera and his brand new 24mp full frame camera.

He printed each photo 43″ wide and asked a group of 30 photo professionals and enthusiasts to write down which camera shot each print. Was it the 12mp APS-C or the 24mp full frame? They were allowed to examine the prints as closely as they wished.

Only 50% of their calls were correct, which is the same a flipping a coin. Magnar said that he himself could not detect a difference between the prints and had to label them on the back “A” and “B” to keep track of which was which.

After printing both images, Magnar wrote, “We simply could not believe our eyes! Then we laughed and laughed. We could not spot any differences!”

 

[UncleVanya]

About Fixed Lens Cameras

Buying these cameras seem like photographic masochism to me. Amateur photographers eagerly pay thousands to give up their options.

They praise being freed from the burden of “the bag”. But of course they don’t have to buy a fixed lens camera to get free of the bag. They could just leave the bag home.

Some think the fixed lens camera is lighter. But full frame camera and lens combinations can be even lighter than the fixed lens cameras they emulate.

They trade interchangeable lenses and zoom lenses for zoom by crop. But they needn’t buy a fixed lens camera to do that. They can mount their favorite lens on their favorite camera body and venture forth.

First, not all fixed lens systems are primes. Second, many offer features unavailable such as retracting lens into the body. Third, some offer a sensor size unavailable - look at the Panasonic enthusiast compact cameras with their aspect ratio tricks they used a smaller image circle making the lenses smaller than equivalent options outside the compact fixed lens line up

And if that isn’t really a rigid enough straight jacket, they can mount that lens with a drop of Loctite and never change lenses again. Does that idea elicit horror? Is it any worse to hinder a used ILC and lens, perhaps worth $2,000, than to spend over $6000 for a fixed lens camera? If one creates his own fixed lens camera he can choose the lens, perhaps even a zoom, for greatly enhanced functionality. Oops! I forgot that these folks seek less functionality, not more.

The latest development in this craziness is the medium format fixed lens camera with an f4 lens and no IBIS. In the past decade, it’s unlikely that anyone had a real need for digital medium format. Sure, they shoot it, but did even one of their images get presented in a manner where medium format was perceivably better than full frame?

I’ll admit that f4 medium format option seems nutty

The following is quoted below with the kind permission of Petapixel.com

This comparison, by Norwegian professional photographer and photography teacher/author Magnar W. Fjørtoft, is backed up with a real test. He shot a scene of a shipyard containing great detail at f/8 on his old 12mp APS-C camera and his brand new 24mp full frame camera.

He printed each photo 43″ wide and asked a group of 30 photo professionals and enthusiasts to write down which camera shot each print. Was it the 12mp APS-C or the 24mp full frame? They were allowed to examine the prints as closely as they wished.

Only 50% of their calls were correct, which is the same a flipping a coin. Magnar said that he himself could not detect a difference between the prints and had to label them on the back “A” and “B” to keep track of which was which.

After printing both images, Magnar wrote, “We simply could not believe our eyes! Then we laughed and laughed. We could not spot any differences!”

Indeed. The megapixel levels are a bit nutty. The move from printed copy to pixel peeped images in a screen has skewed people away from what’s important.

 

[Jefenator]

I love the idea of a good fixed lens camera.

But at least for now, the combination of IQ, flexibility and not least of all value with the MILCs are just too much for me to pass up.

I tried Sony's 20mm pancake on my NEX-7, which physically transforms that camera into something pretty close to a pocketable P&S. I found that I'm happier bulking up just a little with a "cupcake" lens with nicer rendering.

I probably won't tell anyone if I win the Powerball. But the new Leicas & Fujis on my shelf (and maybe an old RX1Rii) might clue you in.

 

[ahaslett]

Well, I’ve just been playing with my DP1 and DP3 M’s. However, an A7CR plus 20-70/4 fits nicely in my 100EG as a pretty general purpose kit, and I can swap to a 55/1.8 ZA or Loxia 21/2.8 if the mood takes me.

I tend to use my OM5 and Laowa 10/2 as a fixed lens camera, and the OM1 and 300/4 too for that matter. Not sure there are that many fixed lens tele primes.





Nice to be able to swap lenses.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[wheresrunnicles]

About Fixed Lens Cameras

Buying these cameras seem like photographic masochism to me. Amateur photographers eagerly pay thousands to give up their options.

I didn’t pay thousands for either of my Ricoh GRs.

They praise being freed from the burden of “the bag”. But of course they don’t have to buy a fixed lens camera to get free of the bag. They could just leave the bag home.

Do they? I’ve never heard that phrase. They are usually more compact and portable, and that’s certainly part of their appeal. I used to own the most compact interchangeable lens camera there’s ever been (the GM5), but even with the smallest lenses it wasn’t as pocketable as my GRIII (it was close but it also had lots of limitations) or as good image quality.

Some think the fixed lens camera is lighter. But full frame camera and lens combinations can be even lighter than the fixed lens cameras they emulate.

Obviously depends on the exact combination. I could put the viltrox 28mm pancake on my A7C. It’s way bigger and heavier than my GRIII and less good (I prefer not to have a fixed aperture and don’t want those exaggerated sunstars).

They trade interchangeable lenses and zoom lenses for zoom by crop. But they needn’t buy a fixed lens camera to do that. They can mount their favorite lens on their favorite camera body and venture forth.

Not necessarily. Or they just treat it like a prime and shoot to that focal length. I crop my GR a bit, but that’s more for framing than as a substitute for zoom. Just as, incidentally, I’d do if I was shooting a prime on my A7C.

And if that isn’t really a rigid enough straight jacket, they can mount that lens with a drop of Loctite and never change lenses again. Does that idea elicit horror? Is it any worse to hinder a used ILC and lens, perhaps worth $2,000, than to spend over $6000 for a fixed lens camera? If one creates his own fixed lens camera he can choose the lens, perhaps even a zoom, for greatly enhanced functionality. Oops! I forgot that these folks seek less functionality, not more.

Now you’re just being silly / trolling. Yes it is obviously worse to break a camera than to buy one that’s been designed in a different way. But feel free to break your cameras if you want. You also ignore the fact that many fixed lens cameras do have zooms (e.g. the RX100 or the LX100). Then there are the other potential benefits of fixed lens cameras like leaf shutters (ok I know there are some ILCs which have them like Hasselblad but these are not common).

The latest development in this craziness is the medium format fixed lens camera with an f4 lens and no IBIS. In the past decade, it’s unlikely that anyone had a real need for digital medium format. Sure, they shoot it, but did even one of their images get presented in a manner where medium format was perceivably better than full frame?

I do somewhat agree. I can’t personally see the point of the GF100RF, but I’m also open minded enough to understand that just because it’s not for me doesn’t make it crazy. The 50-150 is eye wateringly expensive and not for me either, but Sony wasn’t crazy to make it.

The following is quoted below with the kind permission of Petapixel.com

This comparison, by Norwegian professional photographer and photography teacher/author Magnar W. Fjørtoft, is backed up with a real test. He shot a scene of a shipyard containing great detail at f/8 on his old 12mp APS-C camera and his brand new 24mp full frame camera.

He printed each photo 43″ wide and asked a group of 30 photo professionals and enthusiasts to write down which camera shot each print. Was it the 12mp APS-C or the 24mp full frame? They were allowed to examine the prints as closely as they wished.

Only 50% of their calls were correct, which is the same a flipping a coin. Magnar said that he himself could not detect a difference between the prints and had to label them on the back “A” and “B” to keep track of which was which.

After printing both images, Magnar wrote, “We simply could not believe our eyes! Then we laughed and laughed. We could not spot any differences!”

I have no idea what the relevance of this is. This seems to be an argument that you don’t need full frame, not that fixed lens cameras are silly in some way.

I love my ILCs, I love my fixed lens cameras. They both have their roles and the world is better for us having these choices.

 

[ahaslett]

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[Adam-T]

The latest development in this craziness is the medium format fixed lens camera with an f4 lens and no IBIS. In the past decade, it’s unlikely that anyone had a real need for digital medium format. Sure, they shoot it, but did even one of their images get presented in a manner where medium format was perceivably better than full frame?

Wouldn`t mind but its not even Medium format , it`s notably smaller than 645 which was low budget amateur medium format - "Large frame" would be a more accurate description of the Fuji GFX sensor size because it`s nothing like 6X7 (Real MF)

 

[wheresrunnicles]

A

Sure, they’re really small, and a marvel. But the Ricoh’s collapsible lens makes them much smaller once you factor the lens in.

 

[ahaslett]

A

Sure, they’re really small, and a marvel. But the Ricoh’s collapsible lens makes them much smaller once you factor the lens in.

My GM1 was hurt that your GM5 thought it was the smallest.

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[AeroPhotographer]

What is the infinite argument of showing a few ILC's?

 

[AeroPhotographer]

I have no idea what the relevance of this is.

It is evidence that medium format is not perceivably better, even in a very large print.

 

[wheresrunnicles]

A

Sure, they’re really small, and a marvel. But the Ricoh’s collapsible lens makes them much smaller once you factor the lens in.

My GM1 was hurt that your GM5 thought it was the smallest.

A

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

Of course. See what you mean and you’re quite right. I apologise unreservedly to your gm1! The gm5 was the smallest with a viewfinder but I tend to forget the gm1.

 

[Mr_Win]

In a practical level, I’ve been trying to reduce weight and size as much as possible and the standout gear has been the following

Sony ZVE1

Panasonic S9

Sony RX100 m7

Canon powershot V1

The rx100 is not enjoyable, the others are tremendous

 

[wheresrunnicles]

I have no idea what the relevance of this is.

It is evidence that medium format is not perceivably better, even in a very large print.

I understood the point. I didn’t understand (and you haven’t explained) the relevance to a rant about the pointlessness of fixed lens cameras. The vast majority of them aren’t medium format.

 

[liggy]

Horses for courses. If for some reason I could only have one camera it would be a no brainer - A1 II is just the best camera imo period.

But it’s a pleasure to use a Q2 even with its fixed 28ish FOV. It’s the opposite of masochism - it’s a delightful indulgence.

 

[M Gartner]

In today's world they are rather a fashion statement or lifestyle product for those that want a Minox 35 back in their pocket.

IMO a modern top of the line cell phone does better at this point.

 

[wheresrunnicles]

In today's world they are rather a fashion statement or lifestyle product for those that want a Minox 35 back in their pocket.

IMO a modern top of the line cell phone does better at this point.

Well I certainly didn’t buy my Ricohs as a fashion statement or because I was a Minox 35. I really don’t get why some people feel the need to be rude about others gear choices in this sort of way.

Can a phone camera do better? My iPhone 12 can’t, although appreciate the tech may have moved on. Even if it can, I’m not interested. I want the manual controls, the ergonomics and the absence of distractions that come with my phone.

 

[MyReality]

Very well said. I think that you could go up to at least 30 mpx, have someone choose the 30 mpx print from a list of 10 to make the choice more about IQ and less about chance.

 

[liggy]

In today's world they are rather a fashion statement or lifestyle product for those that want a Minox 35 back in their pocket.

IMO a modern top of the line cell phone does better at this point.

I love my iPhone 15 Pro and it is does work well as a camera. Pretty good looking too.
No desire for a Minox 35 though. Unsure how you ever came to that conclusion.

Cameras as a fashion statement?

When I want to make a fashion statement I do it with my clothing.

Nobody cares about what my cameras look like. I do like an aesthetically pleasing camera but that’s never *the* deciding factor for choosing what to shoot with.


I can’t think of any ILC 47mp/61mp full frame cameras with a nice 28mm 1.7 Summilux and pleasing tactile shooting experience packaged as nicely as a Q2 or Q3.


In the Sony world I suppose you could get an A7CR and one of the pancake primes or a 24 or 35GM but IMO they would not be the same.

Seems as if the GFX100RF or other premium fixed lens cameras are not for you.

No need to be dismissive towards those who find them compelling.

 

[deednets]

About Fixed Lens Cameras



The following is quoted below with the kind permission of Petapixel.com

This comparison, by Norwegian professional photographer and photography teacher/author Magnar W. Fjørtoft, is backed up with a real test. He shot a scene of a shipyard containing great detail at f/8 on his old 12mp APS-C camera and his brand new 24mp full frame camera.

He printed each photo 43″ wide and asked a group of 30 photo professionals and enthusiasts to write down which camera shot each print. Was it the 12mp APS-C or the 24mp full frame? They were allowed to examine the prints as closely as they wished.

Only 50% of their calls were correct, which is the same a flipping a coin. Magnar said that he himself could not detect a difference between the prints and had to label them on the back “A” and “B” to keep track of which was which.

After printing both images, Magnar wrote, “We simply could not believe our eyes! Then we laughed and laughed. We could not spot any differences!”

.... have no idea how this relates to A Fixed Lens Camera??

The 60Mpx sensor of the A7RIV//V has EXACTLY the same pixel pitch as a 26Mpx APS-C camera, the 24Mpx camera that was used in the comparison actually has larger pixels!

So why would this surprise you then?

But that's besides the point as your post was About Fixed Lens Cameras. And you completely lost me here. Really, no idea what your target was here??

As a personal remark, I have used fixed lens cameras, often with enthusiasm:

• AGFA Golf
• Voigtländer Vitessa
• SONY Mavica
• Nikon Coolpix 5000
• SONY RX1 // RX1r // RX1RII
• Fuji X100F
• Leica Q // Q2

There are some shortcomings with regards to those cameras, but I must say that I really, REALLY enjoyed the RX1s and also the Leica Qs:













Note: when I took those shots I also had a SONY A7IV with me with a couple of lenses, the FE 20/1.8 and the Batis 40/2. Plus a Tamron 70-180/2.8 which typically stayed on the checked in luggage. But enjoyed the Q2 more than the Sony.

Hard to believe but apart from the "leave the bag at home" nonsense, a Q2 can be very liberating. To a point where I am still pondering a Q3, maybe the 43? ;-)

Would agree with you regarding the Fuji F4 no IBIS MF camera, I am also at a loss there. But not regarding the premium compact as such.

Deed