DR testing results

[A74Me]

lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

log2(fullscale/readNoise) at base ISO.

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100s-ii/fujifilm-gfx-100s-ii-edr/

slog3 is shorter

AI: It gives you more dynamic range which makes post processing easier because it's less likely for highlights to be blown out or shadows to be crushed.

no formulas allowed

Be serious. This is PS&T. Keep up.

Ill tell you what Jim, ive just taken a raw file into ACR and then into Ps to try and grade the white to black curve as smooth as possable with all the controls i have at my finger tips without posterizing the 16bit file and for the life of me taking the jpeg just into Ps and adjusting levels only i can get a non posterised image that leaves the Raw file for dead with my incamera setting maybe my processing skills suck

your answer was compressed to 2 bit jpeg

AI answer.

The expression "log2(full scale / read noise)" at base ISO is a key parameter in understanding and comparing camera noise and dynamic range. It represents the number of "stops" of dynamic range a camera can capture before its image signal is dominated by noise. Essentially, it quantifies how much "clean" signal you have before noise becomes a significant factor.

 

[JimKasson]

lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

log2(fullscale/readNoise) at base ISO.

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100s-ii/fujifilm-gfx-100s-ii-edr/

slog3 is shorter

And has nothing to do with sensor dynamic range.

 

[A74Me]

have a play with this to lighten up the deep shadows

Loading…

www.dropbox.com

 

[A74Me]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

 

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

have a play with this to lighten up the deep shadows

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xy8i...ey=m4bez5prvmvrsw0rp7dnyomcx&st=exa5gl77&dl=0

First I would not call them deep shadows

--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release

 

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR







Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range





here is the raw file viewed in ARC



--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release

 

[A74Me]

have a play with this to lighten up the deep shadows

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xy8i...ey=m4bez5prvmvrsw0rp7dnyomcx&st=exa5gl77&dl=0

First I would not call them deep shadows

post your result then

 

[A74Me]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR



Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



here is the raw file viewed in ARC

i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.

 

[Jack Hogan]

lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

Engineering Dynamic Range in Photography

Dynamic Range (DR) in Photography usually refers to the linear working signal range, from darkest to brightest, that the imaging system is capable of capturing and/or displaying. It is expressed a…

www.strollswithmydog.com

 

[A74Me]

lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

https://www.strollswithmydog.com/engineering-dynamic-range-photography/

thanks for the link, was an interesting read. some images close up of the random noise pattern ratio that is classed as acceptable would be nice.

 

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR



Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



here is the raw file viewed in ARC

i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.

It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear









--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release

 

[A74Me]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR



Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



here is the raw file viewed in ARC

i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.

It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.

 

[Detail Man]

Woke up this morning with the puzzel complete. i know where the 14 stops of DR come from. ... lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

 

[A74Me]

Woke up this morning with the puzzel complete. i know where the 14 stops of DR come from. ... lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post

 

[A74Me]

just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.

 

[JimKasson]

just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.

I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.

You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.

All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.

 

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.

I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.

You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.

All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.

Well at least we may have made some headway, as now he is contemplating that noise may play a role in DR.

It only took 4 year , maybe thing will roll along a little faster and DR might be solved in another 3-4

 

[Ian Stuart Forsyth]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR



Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



here is the raw file viewed in ARC

i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.

It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IuMbgH4CvCBwgwLjQuMzYuMcgHswE&sclient=gws-wiz



Not hard to find out







Most of what you have started here is nonsense and you have done so in 2 different platforms over the last 3 years. are you done playing around and start listening to what people have to say ?











--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release

 

[A74Me]

just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.

I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.

my method is from camera exposures, its been done that way for a 100 years. im sure they did it to measure DR of film.

You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.

i posted links to raw files

All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.

well i found the test images and viewed with fast raw viewer and other programs. not one change in shutter speed the whole test just variing iso, so when did we get iso invarient sensors ? and what happened to detail being apart of shadow recovery. also colours. think i will stick to my own tests as well always enjoying Dustin Abbott reviews as the are real world using camera exposure and actual colour charts and subjects. you already know what my conclusion is so no point in me saying what i think.

 

[A74Me]

In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it

You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR



Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



here is the raw file viewed in ARC

i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.

It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IuMbgH4CvCBwgwLjQuMzYuMcgHswE&sclient=gws-wiz

Not hard to find out



Most of what you have started here is nonsense and you have done so in 2 different platforms over the last 3 years. are you done playing around and start listening to what people have to say ?

I have reached my conclusion thanks for your input.

nothing more here. i only needed 1 positive with the same conclusion from 1 member and i got that, its all that matters. i like to dig a bit deeper and also came out with switching my raw to lossless in my a6700, you only need to learn i thing and its a win for me.

ps: you used custom white balance what happened did the colour change when lifting the shadows