Buying a used R3, but... shutter count almost 60k

[Falxon]

Hi folks.

I'm in the market for a gently used R3, and have been looking at a few places including ebay and used camera retailers. I recently saw one with just under 60k shutter cycles on it.

Now I know most people tend to use the electronic shutter, so the first question is does that figure include electronic shutter cycles?

The second question is, assuming the camera is out of warranty, would it be worth buying, at around $1000 off the full retail price, or is that too heavily used at that point? I would be on Canon Pro Services Platinum so repairs would be discounted, but I would prefer not to buy something that will need immediate maintenance.

Knowing that a new R3 has a US street price of around $5600 from a well-known source, the question is, is 60k cycles worth saving $600-800?

Any thoughts are welcome, as are suggestions for questions to ask the seller.

 

[Canon_Guy]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

 

[Falxon]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

I obviously can't speak to the results, but I'm not sure why you'd expect the sensor architecture to affect bokeh. That's a purely optical phenomenon, so the silicon structure of the sensor should have no effect whatsoever on that appearance.

 

[koenkooi]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

 

[cfieldgate]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

I guess you are not an R3 shooter - we are not all Neanderthals - some of us can actually read manuals .

 

[koenkooi]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

I guess you are not an R3 shooter - we are not all Neanderthals - some of us can actually read manuals .

I'm stuck with the original 1D, 4 glorious megapixels, compact flash card and TIFF 'RAW' files

 

[David Pastern]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

I guess you are not an R3 shooter - we are not all Neanderthals - some of us can actually read manuals .

I'm stuck with the original 1D, 4 glorious megapixels, compact flash card and TIFF 'RAW' files

I still have a 1D, and it's a fantastic camera. Only 4mp, but damn, they are cracking mp. IMHO, the best sensor IQ yet from Canon, better than any CMOS based sensor Canon has prodiuced in terms of pure IQ. You'll be parting my 1D from my cold, dead hands!

 

[paratom]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

I guess you are not an R3 shooter - we are not all Neanderthals - some of us can actually read manuals .

I'm stuck with the original 1D, 4 glorious megapixels, compact flash card and TIFF 'RAW' files

I still have a 1D, and it's a fantastic camera. Only 4mp, but damn, they are cracking mp. IMHO, the best sensor IQ yet from Canon, better than any CMOS based sensor Canon has prodiuced in terms of pure IQ. You'll be parting my 1D from my cold, dead hands!

I had one once upon a time and I also loved it. Dont remember why I sold, I think for a Nikon D2H.

 

[David Pastern]

Why would anyone pay the price of an R3, with its stacked sensor and minimal rolling e-shutter, unless they intended to use e-shutter most if not all of the time?

I have not yet used the mechanical shutter in 10 months!

At a guess: people that use their R3 like they used their 1D. It takes a significant amount of time and effort to learn about the "mirrorless way" of doing things.

I guess you are not an R3 shooter - we are not all Neanderthals - some of us can actually read manuals .

I'm stuck with the original 1D, 4 glorious megapixels, compact flash card and TIFF 'RAW' files

I still have a 1D, and it's a fantastic camera. Only 4mp, but damn, they are cracking mp. IMHO, the best sensor IQ yet from Canon, better than any CMOS based sensor Canon has prodiuced in terms of pure IQ. You'll be parting my 1D from my cold, dead hands!

I had one once upon a time and I also loved it. Dont remember why I sold, I think for a Nikon D2H.

I bought my 1st 1D - beaten up and used, high shutter count, for 1.2k AUD back back in mid 2004. Coming from a [Canon] D60, it was lovely. I sold it, in 2008, to fund my Mark IIn upgrade. Big mistake.

I managed to pick up a very lightly used 1D, basically like new, 6k shutter actuations, for4 AUD $450 inc. shipping from a guy in Perth in March this year. Was stoked! No hot pixels that I can see (whereas my old 1D had tonnes of them). High ISO performance at ISO 1600, when exposed correctly, is about the seame as my 7D II imho. Perfectly usable. A pity DXO Pure RAW 2 doesn't support the 1D. Shameful really. But, I'm starting to really HATE DXO, dodgy company. But, 'nuff said.

 

[Ephemeris]

Paramoz in UK. Grey importer but solid service. 3yr warranty. They claim that Canon will service and repair. I got mine there. No issues.

We use Panamoz a lot and have good relations.

 

[Canon_Guy]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

I obviously can't speak to the results, but I'm not sure why you'd expect the sensor architecture to affect bokeh. That's a purely optical phenomenon, so the silicon structure of the sensor should have no effect whatsoever on that appearance.

Yes, most probably you are right. I just wonder if the faster readout speed could not affect it somehow. But the truth is that this phenomenon is caused by the distance of the physical curtain to the sensor. So unless this distance does not change, the phenomenon should remain the same.

 

[Chesapeake Imagery]

But the truth is that this phenomenon is caused by the distance of the physical curtain to the sensor. So unless this distance does not change, the phenomenon should remain the same.

Wait, what?

 

[richard cohen]

A used mint low use R3 is more like $5k these days...so the premium for new is much bigger. The R3 is overpriced relative to the competition imo...and you can get substantial discounts off new z9 and a1 if you know where to look....

 

[KevinRA]

The R3 is overpriced relative to the competition imo...

+1 -- 24MP for the standard retail price and the Z9 simply seems superb, come on canon!

 

[David Pastern]

The R3 is overpriced relative to the competition imo...

+1 -- 24MP for the standard retail price and the Z9 simply seems superb, come on canon!

I honestly think Canon is struggling with the BSI stacked sensor tech to be honest. I do think the R3 was meant to be their flagship R1 until Sony released the A1 and smashed those dreams. By the time Canon comes out with the Canon R1, Sony and Nikon will have mark II versions of their A1 and Z9 that move the goals even further away from Canon imho. If Canon cannot deliver on their pro bodies, then they are in serious trouble. They're losing the consumer market to Sony and to mobile phone cameras and the pro market is really their last stand imho.

 

[Falxon]

I honestly think Canon is struggling with the BSI stacked sensor tech to be honest. I do think the R3 was meant to be their flagship R1 until Sony released the A1 and smashed those dreams. By the time Canon comes out with the Canon R1, Sony and Nikon will have mark II versions of their A1 and Z9 that move the goals even further away from Canon imho. If Canon cannot deliver on their pro bodies, then they are in serious trouble. They're losing the consumer market to Sony and to mobile phone cameras and the pro market is really their last stand imho.

Yeah, I'm with you on the R3 being intended as the R1. If you look at all the Canon press releases before/after the A1 you can clearly see the roadmap they were setting, and then how they had to change all of their messaging when Sony came out with something that outdid most of their capabilities.

 

[cfieldgate]

You maybe right, but for Canon’s intended market i.e. primarily sports and press / documentary, they likely believed a 24MP sensor was a good fit (read 1D series shooters).

That said, several other areas also fell short for me, such as mismatched storage, micro HDMI port, and no pre-capture. Being a previous 1D shooter I am also not a fan of the card door mechanism and a couple of button positions, and of course the price was too high.

 

[David Pastern]

You maybe right, but for Canon’s intended market i.e. primarily sports and press / documentary, they likely believed a 24MP sensor was a good fit (read 1D series shooters).

That said, several other areas also fell short for me, such as mismatched storage, micro HDMI port, and no pre-capture. Being a previous 1D shooter I am also not a fan of the card door mechanism and a couple of button positions, and of course the price was too high.

I don't mind the button placing, but yeah the card door feels weird. Dual CFExpress type B slots should have been standard. And 24mp is still very good imho, but makes it a hard sell vs the Z9 and A1. If the R3 had featured dual CFExpress type b card slots, 35mp, it would have been much better received. The general view seems to be 'meh, I'll wait for the R1". That's not a good look for Canon imho.

What the 1Dx series did is irrelevant - Canon needs to place products vs the competition and NOT it's own older DSLR range of cameras. If they continue to pace vs the 1DX series of bodies, they are dead in the professional market.

I really do believe that Canon is struggling with the BIS stacked sensor technologies...

 

[expro]

Do you use the R3?

best sensor and AF I’ve ever used.

 

[RLight]

Hi folks.

I'm in the market for a gently used R3, and have been looking at a few places including ebay and used camera retailers. I recently saw one with just under 60k shutter cycles on it.

Now I know most people tend to use the electronic shutter, so the first question is does that figure include electronic shutter cycles?

The second question is, assuming the camera is out of warranty, would it be worth buying, at around $1000 off the full retail price, or is that too heavily used at that point? I would be on Canon Pro Services Platinum so repairs would be discounted, but I would prefer not to buy something that will need immediate maintenance.

Knowing that a new R3 has a US street price of around $5600 from a well-known source, the question is, is 60k cycles worth saving $600-800?

Any thoughts are welcome, as are suggestions for questions to ask the seller.

I have 3k of shutters on mine, but have taken ten times that in ES.

60k means 60k physical, not including ES. That’s a well worn unit, heads up. I would be very cautious given the nature of the R3 is ES as primary use.

 

[RLight]

You maybe right, but for Canon’s intended market i.e. primarily sports and press / documentary, they likely believed a 24MP sensor was a good fit (read 1D series shooters).

That said, several other areas also fell short for me, such as mismatched storage, micro HDMI port, and no pre-capture. Being a previous 1D shooter I am also not a fan of the card door mechanism and a couple of button positions, and of course the price was too high.

I don't mind the button placing, but yeah the card door feels weird. Dual CFExpress type B slots should have been standard. And 24mp is still very good imho, but makes it a hard sell vs the Z9 and A1. If the R3 had featured dual CFExpress type b card slots, 35mp, it would have been much better received. The general view seems to be 'meh, I'll wait for the R1". That's not a good look for Canon imho.

What the 1Dx series did is irrelevant - Canon needs to place products vs the competition and NOT it's own older DSLR range of cameras. If they continue to pace vs the 1DX series of bodies, they are dead in the professional market.

I really do believe that Canon is struggling with the BIS stacked sensor technologies...

I’m told a lot of high tech, technology is patent protected. It’s more likely Canon is skimping on paying up for using said IP necessary for BSI and/or stacked. Obviously they paid up or made their own “unique” process to produce a stacked sensor with the R3. Both come at a cost (in house R&D or licensing)

The R3 and A9, will always have faster readout, better low light ISO then their high MP counterparts of same generation, eg to be released R1 and already released A1, DXOMark and Photons to Photons confirm this.

The R3 has its place much as an R5 or R1 does. But they are different places. If you’re a sports or event shooter, the R3 may still be the best choice, 2 years from now post R1 release. Likewise now, a landscape or studio work shooter would be wise to use an R5 instead of an R3 where light is abundant and base ISO can be maintained. It’s mixed use or things in the middle where there is contention as to which is the better tool for the job.