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D70 - Highly Recc'd - Phil's Review...

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...I can tell you that the same colorful noise, especially in shadowey areas is prevalent with any settings. If you turn down saturation, it is reduced, yes.

Even though paramters are different, the same basic looks of the cameras comes across.

I have played a bit with trying to make a Nikon image look like a Canon's and vice versa. One difference is that you have to apply a mild blur to a Nikon image. In doing that noise levels also even out and drop.

I know what you mean about the loudness preference thing. I've run and participated in many level matched double blind tests with full controls. If the levels aren't super carefully matched to a very fine degree, the data is worthless.

Stan
 
Member said:
I wonder about the comparison of results from RAW - would it depend
on the kind of software used (C1, PS CS, CFV) and the settings?
Perhaps Nikon's RAW converter does a better job of squeezing max
resolution?
Click to expand...
Nikon's RAW converter(s) seem(s) to be the only chioce. Photoshop CS did a pretty bad job on rez charts. I was surprised how much moire there was, and how most of it seemed to vanish through Nikon RAW conversions.

Of course, Nikon designed the anti-alias filter in the D70. They probably built their converter around it.
 
Loggedonnow said:
After looking at all the comparison shots, I too feel the 300D won
almost every comparison. I am not knocking the D70 as the two are
very close but each posted comparison shot looked to me to be
better with the Canon.
Click to expand...
I think there was a lot of "six of one, half-dozen of the other," although I think in the low-ISO studio jpeg-mode comparison, the dReb handed the D70 it's head. I was surprised at the commentary here, too. In the similar RAW comparsion, though, I think the D70 takes a slight lead.
Loggedonnow said:
I would like to see some of these shots printed and side by side
though. Would I even see any difference.
KR3 said:
Stan said:
Just reading through the review of the Canon's competition...

Stan
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
OK, I felt the same way about the comparison but thought maybe I was biased. I thought in terms of sharpness the 300D was on par and sometimes even better. For a "Rebel-killer," the D70 has to be a huge disappointment. Whatever Phil was smoking, I want some!

Once again glad I went with Canon.
 
Sam Bennett said:
Personally, I shoot RAW exclusively. Phil's test show pretty
convincingly that with a RAW workflow the moire problem is greatly
reduced. I agree that I would prefer to not have to worry about it
  • but I can see how more serious photographers (shooting RAW)
wouldn't fret over it.
Click to expand...
I mostly agree. I shoot RAW about 95% of the time, and by now my workflow is pretty much tailored to working with RAW images. Whenever I have to use jpeg, I keep wondering how things would have turned out in RAW, how much more leeway I'd have...

It seemed like the D70 pulled out a hair more detail in RAW versus jpeg mode, and most of the moire problem went away. There was a little bit left, but it was mitigated enough that you could Photoshop the rest away if it was a serious distraction.

But there are times ( usually when buffer depth is an issue, although occasionally for very fast turnaround ) when jpeg is a necessary evil.
 
I agree with you there. But, on the first studio comparison I was left feeling that Phil had either mislabeled the photos, or was just being very biased towards the Nikon. I am glad I wasn't the only one who saw this.

Rgds
KR
Forrest said:
Forrest41926 said:
After looking at all the comparison shots, I too feel the 300D won
almost every comparison. I am not knocking the D70 as the two are
very close but each posted comparison shot looked to me to be
better with the Canon.
Click to expand...
I think there was a lot of "six of one, half-dozen of the other,"
although I think in the low-ISO studio jpeg-mode comparison, the
dReb handed the D70 it's head. I was surprised at the commentary
here, too. In the similar RAW comparsion, though, I think the D70
takes a slight lead.
Forrest41926 said:
I would like to see some of these shots printed and side by side
though. Would I even see any difference.
KR3 said:
Stan said:
Just reading through the review of the Canon's competition...

Stan
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Stan,

I have no idea whiy would someone feel an urge to notify the readers of the 300D forum of the new D70 review and how it's rated. In fact I anticipated that you will be doing it. But it's a waste of your precious time, since...

1. We can find new articles, reviews on our own... (most of us can read I assume, and we read http://www.dpreview.com regularly)

2. This is a Canon forum, where Canon matters are discussed.

Thanks anyway,

Greg
 
Nikon's Converter has an adjustable moire filter, edge artifact tool, color noise reduction, shadow/highlights type tool and so forth. They can be tuned or batch applied.

Stan
 
I would definitely like to play around with it myself. But again, the colorful noise thing isn't much of an issue if you're using RAW and C1, since you can suppress it. It isn't clear to me at this point whether the Nikon has inherently less colorful noise, if there's reduction going on, or what.
Stan said:
...I can tell you that the same colorful noise, especially in
shadowey areas is prevalent with any settings. If you turn down
saturation, it is reduced, yes.

Even though paramters are different, the same basic looks of the
cameras comes across.

I have played a bit with trying to make a Nikon image look like a
Canon's and vice versa. One difference is that you have to apply a
mild blur to a Nikon image. In doing that noise levels also even
out and drop.

I know what you mean about the loudness preference thing. I've run
and participated in many level matched double blind tests with full
controls. If the levels aren't super carefully matched to a very
fine degree, the data is worthless.

Stan
Click to expand...
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
Its more then normal the D70 will be A little better then de 300-D

In 6 monds to a year there will be another 300-D II and again this camera will be better then de D-70

Its verry normal see it like this.
A new computer can't be worse the old one.
Have you buyed a car thad is worser then you car you owned before ??

I do not thing so As phil say the camera's are verry simulear,so for me the rebel is better becouse the rebel was furst,and proved 6 monds ago its a verry good camera.
Thads my 2 cent deal.
Claus Marnix.
Hej said:
Stan said:
Just reading through the review of the Canon's competition...

Stan
Click to expand...
--
I see your schwartz is as big as mine.
Click to expand...
 
I have to agree with you, in the first studio comparison the 300D was clearly better. I also noticed it was DARKER at this time, which is strange since most of the time the D70's curve results in darker images. Maybe Phil mixed up the images? Weird...

Greg
KR3 said:
I have to admit that I agree with most all of the comparisons,
except one. In the very first studio comparison I saw the Rebel
beating the D70 in every shot as far as resolution and sharpness.
Phil did not see it this way, and in fact gave the edge to the D70.
This definitely struck a bad chord with me. I then agreed with his
second studio comparison at ISO 1600. So why the huge difference
in the first comparison. It is a small niggle, but it just really
bugs me when I see something totally different than somebody else.
Other than that, the D70 seems to be a great little camera. Having
said that, I am still happy with my Rebel.
Click to expand...
 
...it's a review of a competitive product. One which has been a frequent topic of discussion. One which includes new test data on the Drebel and comparisons to other cameras. I think it's highly relevant. It seems to corroborate much of what has been posted in this forum in various comparos I've noticed.

Stan
 
I think one of the reasons a lot of people might prefer the DR pictures vs. the Nikon is simply because the DR shots are more contrasty. They're "richer" looking, although they don't have as much detail. I referred in another post about people assessing audio confusing "loudness" with "quality" - it's a similar situation here. :)
KR3 said:
I agree with you there. But, on the first studio comparison I was
left feeling that Phil had either mislabeled the photos, or was
just being very biased towards the Nikon. I am glad I wasn't the
only one who saw this.
Click to expand...
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
It was the first time I had noticed the Rebel shots being darker than the D70.

Rgds
KR
Greg Kovacs said:
Greg
KR3 said:
I have to admit that I agree with most all of the comparisons,
except one. In the very first studio comparison I saw the Rebel
beating the D70 in every shot as far as resolution and sharpness.
Phil did not see it this way, and in fact gave the edge to the D70.
This definitely struck a bad chord with me. I then agreed with his
second studio comparison at ISO 1600. So why the huge difference
in the first comparison. It is a small niggle, but it just really
bugs me when I see something totally different than somebody else.
Other than that, the D70 seems to be a great little camera. Having
said that, I am still happy with my Rebel.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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