Everyday pocketable camera: maybe RX1R II ?

MVDH said:

Hello, just would like to get some opinions on an idea that I'm contemplating.
I shoot a Sony A7RIII and have several lenses, but would like to get a small(er) pocketable everyday camera system that I can take with me on casual walks, bring it in my bag to work, and use for street photography etc. Not a main camera system but just a secondary "fun" camera.

I have some fine lenses to pair with my A7R III, incl FE 20-70 F4, FE 35 F1.4 GM and a bunch of Zeiss Loxia's, and are great but I still find them a bit bulky to serve as a compact everyday take anywhere system. I simply don't like to bring the camera with me unless I have a specific photography purpose in mind.

I recently bought a used Sony Zeiss Sonnar FE 35 F2.8 ZA lens to make it more compact and lighter system, but the camera is still a decent size.

So I'm contemplating the idea of looking for maybe getting an alternative camera system to use as secondary camera . Fixed lens (focal lens) is fine, either 35 or 40 mm would work for me.

So I have been looking at the Ricoh GR serie that seem interesting options and very popular, and there are some great options at Fuji. However I am realy happy with my current Sony system and do find the A7R III sensor/camera fantastic for my needs, so maybe I should just look what Sony has to offer and give the good old Sony RX1R II a serious consideration.

I know it's a 10 year old camera (just 2 years older than my current A7R III), and I believe it is the same generation 42 MP sensor as my A7R III and camera handling would be quite comparable. I have no real need for latest and fastest AF.
My main concern is that the camera is still very expensive, even used. So should I spend big money (around EUR 2000-2500) for a used 10 year old camera with some known weaknesses (poor batty life, not dust/weathersealed, old technology).

I would appreciate to get your thougts on this.

Does anyone still use the RX1R II ion regular basis, and do you find it compact enough to take with you even on casual walks?
Would you spend EUR/USD 2000 on a 10 year old camera?

I appreciate your opinions and personal experience with the RX1R II.

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1. Battery life. You are aware of it already, and it's really as bad as stated everywhere. However, it's good enough to last for a day with intermittent photography - if you are cycling, for example, taking a few pictures every now and then. Still, spares are advisable, and for me 2 spares have been working fine. The charging device is also very small, pocketable, and powered by USB, and you can charge in-camera as well. So, if the worst case should come to pass and you end up with three empty batteries, one powerbank could charge to batteries concurrently - one in the charger, one in the camera. The good thing with the small capacity is: it will also not eat a lot of capacity of your powerbank to recharge the batteries. I haven't tested the total number of possible recharges, but after three recharged batteries, my 20kmAh nitecore powerbank still showed 4 out of 4 LEDs for remaining capacity.
2. EVF / display brightness and sharpness: While the EVF is good, the lacking eyepiece around the EVF means there's a lot of light entering, leading to a loss of contrast and seemingly bad colors, making it difficult to properly judge your images, especially in bright conditions. Same goes for the display. In the meantime, I mainly use the display (occassionally the EVF) to compose the shot, then check for exposure by metering and histogram, and set the aperture as I deem it approriate for my subject. Results are only really available once you are back home, which feels a bit like old times, when one headed out and had no real idea about the images taken until developing was done. It's actually an aspect I personally enjoy, but this may differ by user.
3. Aperture homegneity: Most RX1-models seem to suffer from aperture blades that do not retract completely when setting the aperture to wide open. Bastian on philippreeve.net has it covered in his review of the camera. Mine suffers from it as well, and you can see the effect in the image with the fungi in my thread - it's been shot wide open, and there shouldn't be any rays from the sun. Personally, I don't mind it, and I doubt hardly anyone outside the hardcore bokeh fanatics in the photography niche would notice it, but it's something to be aware of.

elliottnewcomb said:

NO.

For a long time, very few people are posting images from either RX1r or RX1rII, which indicates, like my RX1r, after the honeymoon, they are not actively using their otherwise wonderful cameras.

An rx100m3 would be a terrific 'always with me' camera, far more affordable and versatile lens, brighter/shorter reach. You could buy/sell not lose much trying. However, your phone's camera can do a lot of what it does.

Or, you can buy a new rx100m7, try it, prove yay or nay, return it, then shop for a lightly used one at a great price. It is an amazingly versatile 'brighter than you think' camera,

IOW, the true object is a camera you won't leave at home, good for most everything, and the 1" sensor results for computer viewing and sharing far exceeds 'good enough'.

Your skills, 1" sensor, you would create images you would be proud of. I think the extra reach makes the m6,7 the better everyday choice, I use mine at 10mp image size to have 24-280mm optical via smart zoom and smart telecon.

My phone camera's bright wide lens handles low light close if needed.

My RX1r is my 'shallow focus monster', and after the initial fun, it gets hardly any use.

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MVDH said:

In fact I had an RX100-ii several years ago. I bought it as a gift for my wife, who wanted to have a camera for travel/vacation. Turned out after 3 years owning it she only shot a handfull of images, too complicated she said, used her phone instead. So I sold the camea several years ago.

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MVDH said:

Interesting thoughts from all of you - thank you very much.
I'm not in a hurry, will give it some thought. For sure I won;'t get a RX1R-ii immediately, I do find the price simply too steep, and don't expect to find any good deals in my counmtry (Netherlands). Camera stores are typically not that "low priced" here.

For sure I will give the RX100 line a serious consideration. They are the most pocketable, apart from Ricoh GR. Justy need to figure out what I want and what I value most. Each have pro's and con's.

In fact I had an RX100-ii several years ago. I bought it as a gift for my wife, who wanted to have a camera for travel/vacation. Turned out after 3 years owning it she only shot a handfull of images, too complicated she said, used her phone instead. So I sold the camea several years ago.
What I remember from the camera is that it was a fine camera, good image quality, it was the shooting experience that I didn't like that much at that point in time.

With latest RX100 models I see Sony is moving to even longer focal length range. Usually that has negative impact on IQ, and I'm realy not interested in the 70-200mm (FF equivalent range) in a compact camera for daily use. I'd value the restriction of single or small focal range much more for a "daily camera", to help me train my photographic eye.

Let's see. I'll be traveling to Asia in a week time (Singapore & Indonesia) so maybe I run into a nice deal on a used travel camera.

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MVDH said:

I'm realy not interested in the 70-200mm (FF equivalent range) in a compact camera for daily use. I'd value the restriction of single or small focal range much more for a "daily camera", to help me train my photographic eye.

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Perturabo said:

Haven't seen your seperate thread specifically requesting input on the RX1RII before answering in my thread about it, sorry!

But I'll just answer here as well, perhaps offering even a slightly more in-depth answer as you provided more of a framework.

I bought mine roughly 1 year ago at my local dealer - it was available in the used section, and I jumped at it. Although I was slightly sceptical about it's long-term value in my gear drawer (my wife even more so) given I have an A7RV and good lenses, in hindsight this has proven to be an unfounded worry.

The RX1RII is a small monster of a camera, with the excellent image quality you know from the A7RIII (had one as well) but with the diminutive size of a point&shoot. Which makes it not only an excellent bring-along "just in case", it's also an excellent camera for family gatherings or public spaces. It doesn't intimidate or draw attention like an Alpha-series body with lens or even GM-lens would, and often enough it goes entirely unnoticed. Now, I don't do street, but I do family, both privately as well as when going somewhere, and it has been excellent for those opportunities.

It is also my Go-To camera if we go for a walk - either just drop it in the backpack in a small holster that was leftover from an old point&shoot, or just take it along with holster if it's a short walk only.

Due to its size, it has also become my "cycling camera" - easy to bring along, great images even if I have to push ISO to achieve sufficient shutter speeds to freeze movement, and obviously excellent for taking landscape images along the way. AF is good enough for me, and so far I didn't have any troubles with moving objects (i.e., people riding mountainbikes or gravelbikes). Works fine, tracks fine, no issues. It does need a bit more preparation time as it lacks the ergonomy and many of the dedicated buttons of the larger cameras, but it works.

Last but not least I sometimes bring it along even though I have the "big" camera with me because I like the images it takes, and because I can have the small holster holding it dangling around without issues while approaching the "real" photospot.

The lack of weather sealing is not a big issue for me - because it's so small it's super fast to stow away in case weather changes. Moreover, it's not like it stops working as soon as the sun's not shining anymore: it can weather a few drops of rain or flakes of snow, and it has worked perfectly fine at -15 to -20 degree Celsius and fierce winds in the finnish winter.

There are three main issues you need to be aware of, but none of them are much of an issue, imho.

1. Battery life. You are aware of it already, and it's really as bad as stated everywhere. However, it's good enough to last for a day with intermittent photography - if you are cycling, for example, taking a few pictures every now and then. Still, spares are advisable, and for me 2 spares have been working fine. The charging device is also very small, pocketable, and powered by USB, and you can charge in-camera as well. So, if the worst case should come to pass and you end up with three empty batteries, one powerbank could charge to batteries concurrently - one in the charger, one in the camera. The good thing with the small capacity is: it will also not eat a lot of capacity of your powerbank to recharge the batteries. I haven't tested the total number of possible recharges, but after three recharged batteries, my 20kmAh nitecore powerbank still showed 4 out of 4 LEDs for remaining capacity.
2. EVF / display brightness and sharpness: While the EVF is good, the lacking eyepiece around the EVF means there's a lot of light entering, leading to a loss of contrast and seemingly bad colors, making it difficult to properly judge your images, especially in bright conditions. Same goes for the display. In the meantime, I mainly use the display (occassionally the EVF) to compose the shot, then check for exposure by metering and histogram, and set the aperture as I deem it approriate for my subject. Results are only really available once you are back home, which feels a bit like old times, when one headed out and had no real idea about the images taken until developing was done. It's actually an aspect I personally enjoy, but this may differ by user.
3. Aperture homegneity: Most RX1-models seem to suffer from aperture blades that do not retract completely when setting the aperture to wide open. Bastian on philippreeve.net has it covered in his review of the camera. Mine suffers from it as well, and you can see the effect in the image with the fungi in my thread - it's been shot wide open, and there shouldn't be any rays from the sun. Personally, I don't mind it, and I doubt hardly anyone outside the hardcore bokeh fanatics in the photography niche would notice it, but it's something to be aware of.

In short: I'm still perfectly happy with the camera and would buy it again.

However, I was lucky enough to having paid significantly less than 2000-2500€, which I do find quite steep as well. It may be best to check a few local dealers (if available) and see if they have one available eventually. I have been looking for more than a year, but ultimately, it has been worth it.

I wish you the best of luck - I think it's a camera you'd enjoy quite a bit.

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MVDH said:

I think I will be on the lookout for a nice used RX100-V as a daily take everywhere camera if I can find a nicely priced one. But also these are now out of production, so will have to find a used copy.

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MVDH said:

I guess I should get a RX100 V and in the mean time make lots of pictures and save a year or two to be able to afford the just announced RX1R iii.

Looks like a very very nice camera, but EUR 5000 is a lot of money for a hobbyist, but not so much more compared to say A7CR or A7RV..

And looking at the RX1R ii they realy hold their value

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MacroDonata said:

But, if you like the idea of the best IQ in a fixed focal length pants-pocketable camera, take a close look at the Ricoh GR iii and iiiX.

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tbcass said:

MacroDonata said:

But, if you like the idea of the best IQ in a fixed focal length pants-pocketable camera, take a close look at the Ricoh GR iii and iiiX.

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There's an old saying that the best camera is the one you have with you. I will expand that to the best lens is the one with the focal length best suited for your subject. IMO the slight advantage in IQ of the APSC sensor over 1" is more than cancelled out by being stuck with a single focal length.

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tbcass said:

MacroDonata said:

But, if you like the idea of the best IQ in a fixed focal length pants-pocketable camera, take a close look at the Ricoh GR iii and iiiX.

Click to expand...

There's an old saying that the best camera is the one you have with you. I will expand that to the best lens is the one with the focal length best suited for your subject. IMO the slight advantage in IQ of the APSC sensor over 1" is more than cancelled out by being stuck with a single focal length.

Click to expand...