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DR testing results

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JimKasson said:
A74Me said:
JimKasson said:
A74Me said:
lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post 😎
Click to expand...
log2(fullscale/readNoise) at base ISO.

https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-100s-ii/fujifilm-gfx-100s-ii-edr/
Click to expand...
slog3 is shorter 🤨

AI: It gives you more dynamic range which makes post processing easier because it's less likely for highlights to be blown out or shadows to be crushed.

no formulas allowed
Click to expand...
Be serious. This is PS&T. Keep up.
Click to expand...
😁

Ill tell you what Jim, ive just taken a raw file into ACR and then into Ps to try and grade the white to black curve as smooth as possable with all the controls i have at my finger tips without posterizing the 16bit file and for the life of me taking the jpeg just into Ps and adjusting levels only i can get a non posterised image that leaves the Raw file for dead with my incamera setting 🤔maybe my processing skills suck 😒
JimKasson said:
JimKasson said:
your answer was compressed to 2 bit jpeg 😁

AI answer.

The expression "log2(full scale / read noise)" at base ISO is a key parameter in understanding and comparing camera noise and dynamic range. It represents the number of "stops" of dynamic range a camera can capture before its image signal is dominated by noise. Essentially, it quantifies how much "clean" signal you have before noise becomes a significant factor.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
have a play with this to lighten up the deep shadows

Loading…

www.dropbox.com
 
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
 
Last edited:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR





10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range



b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC



--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release
 
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR

10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range

b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC
Click to expand...
i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.
 
A74Me said:
lets see if anyone can sum up 14 stops DR measument in a single line post
Click to expand...
www.strollswithmydog.com

Engineering Dynamic Range in Photography

Dynamic Range (DR) in Photography usually refers to the linear working signal range, from darkest to brightest, that the imaging system is capable of capturing and/or displaying. It is expressed a…
www.strollswithmydog.com
 
Last edited:
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR

10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range

b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC
Click to expand...
i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.
Click to expand...
It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear



d24cf98a05ad40a7aaa4808168c9e84f.jpg





--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release
 
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR

10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range

b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC
Click to expand...
i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.
Click to expand...
It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

d24cf98a05ad40a7aaa4808168c9e84f.jpg
Click to expand...
that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.
 
just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.
 
A74Me said:
just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.
Click to expand...
I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.

You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.

All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.
 
JimKasson said:
A74Me said:
just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.
Click to expand...
I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.

You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.

All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.
Click to expand...
Well at least we may have made some headway, as now he is contemplating that noise may play a role in DR.

It only took 4 year , maybe thing will roll along a little faster and DR might be solved in another 3-4
 
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR

10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range

b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC
Click to expand...
i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.
Click to expand...
It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

d24cf98a05ad40a7aaa4808168c9e84f.jpg
Click to expand...
that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IuMbgH4CvCBwgwLjQuMzYuMcgHswE&sclient=gws-wiz



Not hard to find out



a4bbb7a875ed4b48a02e2a2143bc4990.jpg



Most of what you have started here is nonsense and you have done so in 2 different platforms over the last 3 years. are you done playing around and start listening to what people have to say ?











--
The Camera is only a tool, photography is deciding how to use it.
The hardest part about capturing wildlife is not the photographing portion; it’s getting them to sign a model release
 
JimKasson said:
A74Me said:
just remembered that i had sent test images to bill quite a while back 7 years ago , so i will now find them and come to my own conclusion what is regarded as aceptable noise. when i compare his charts.
Click to expand...
I"m not sure what you're trying to do here.

When you conduct an experiment, you should describe precisely what the experiment is intended to determine, and define the metrics. If there is an extensive body of knowledge on the subject, as there certainly is here, you should either use the practices of that body of knowledge or say why they are inappropriate for the purposes of the experiment. You should devise experiments that are reproducible by others and describe your methods in sufficient detail that others can reproduce your results.
Click to expand...
my method is from camera exposures, its been done that way for a 100 years. im sure they did it to measure DR of film.
JimKasson said:
You have done none of those things. And you have ignored the people who are trying to help you crisp things up.
Click to expand...
i posted links to raw files
JimKasson said:
All that makes me think that this discussion is not appropriate for the PS&T forum.
Click to expand...
well i found the test images and viewed with fast raw viewer and other programs. not one change in shutter speed the whole test just variing iso, so when did we get iso invarient sensors ? and what happened to detail being apart of shadow recovery. also colours. think i will stick to my own tests as well always enjoying Dustin Abbott reviews as the are real world using camera exposure and actual colour charts and subjects. you already know what my conclusion is so no point in me saying what i think.
 
Last edited:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
Ian Stuart Forsyth said:
A74Me said:
In celestial navigation you have to calculate your not in a position.

so i deceided to shoot a single 14 stop image in my studio. IMPOSsABLE to control the spill in a perfectly neutral colour studio.

so i went with 2 shots 14 stops of light apart. impossable to even try to recover the extra 2 stops either way of 10 stops. my conclusion is, sure you can lift the low mids and drop the high whites and there is your 4 stops of 🤔 what are we going to call that because its not actually DR is it 🤨
Click to expand...
You are confusing DR that can be recorded and what we can display.

A camera can record more tonal values than we can display, this is why we compress the DR that a camera records into the medium we are going to display.

If the scene has more DR than we can display and we want to have that in our image then we are left with 1 compressing that DR the camera has recorded

2 bracketing the scene if there is too much DR that the camera can not record.

and again, compressing that captured DR so that we can display the data in our image.

Take your raw file you just uploaded if that was a neutral target say neutral 8 target and because of the nature of the lighting you are only able to light a small portion of the target then you need the DR to bring the remaining part of the target to its correct value of neutral 8.

This is no different than have a subject that is half in the daylight and half in the shadows, or having a sunset backlighting trees and wanting detail shown in those trees.

How can you not call that DR

10a76e63a1ca4f3ba61e23f3bef09462.jpg

Here is your image half is the what can be displayed by the medium we can display it in.

and the other half is compressing that total DR in the raw file into a narrow neutral 8 target range

b8aa2dc1a593407ca67f46eeeea0700d.jpg

here is the raw file viewed in ARC
Click to expand...
i dont understand, all i was after was a method to gradually lift the shadows with a smooth gradiant with the tools we have and a single image.
Click to expand...
It was, using your image I lifted the tonal range across the image such that the whole image shares the same tonal regardless of the luminosity of the subject

Here are 3 varying adjustments with the second from the top being linear

d24cf98a05ad40a7aaa4808168c9e84f.jpg
Click to expand...
that looks great, what tools are you using to get such a smooth gradient.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/search?q=lif...IuMbgH4CvCBwgwLjQuMzYuMcgHswE&sclient=gws-wiz

Not hard to find out

a4bbb7a875ed4b48a02e2a2143bc4990.jpg

Most of what you have started here is nonsense and you have done so in 2 different platforms over the last 3 years. are you done playing around and start listening to what people have to say ?
Click to expand...
I have reached my conclusion 😁 thanks for your input.

nothing more here. i only needed 1 positive with the same conclusion from 1 member and i got that, its all that matters. i like to dig a bit deeper and also came out with switching my raw to lossless in my a6700, you only need to learn i thing and its a win for me.

ps: you used custom white balance 🙄what happened did the colour change when lifting the shadows😎
 
Last edited:
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