Hit rate with R6 Mkii

stefanik · May 1, 2024

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

drsnoopy · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Single shot with AF on the shutter button (which is what you describe) should give you the same result every time as long as you have a good focus point. You may get some variation within bursts at a high frame rate. Personally if I wanted 40 shots of a static subject I would focus just the once - I use BBF - and then take the 40 shots. If you’re seeing inconsistency, I suspect what’s happening is that your focus point isn’t sufficiently well defined - PDAF has difficulty with horizontal lines - so it’s choosing a slightly different AF point each time.

stefanik · May 1, 2024

drsnoopy said:
stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Single shot with AF on the shutter button (which is what you describe) should give you the same result every time as long as you have a good focus point. You may get some variation within bursts at a high frame rate. Personally if I wanted 40 shots of a static subject I would focus just the once - I use BBF - and then take the 40 shots. If you’re seeing inconsistency, I suspect what’s happening is that your focus point isn’t sufficiently well defined - PDAF has difficulty with horizontal lines - so it’s choosing a slightly different AF point each time.

Thx for your reply.

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

cnyphotoguy · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

Genuinely curious what value there is to set up such a test if you acknowledge that it's not that useful.

stefanik · May 1, 2024

cnyphotoguy said:
stefanik said:

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

Click to expand...

Genuinely curious what value there is to set up such a test if you acknowledge that it's not that useful.

Sure I've presented the question in the wrong way.

Generally i don't go out taking 40 shots of the same target but at the same time i'm concerned about the ability of an AF sytem to be trusted when it says ok your (static) target is in focus but it is not!

How do you test this ability?

With my actual equipment i take 4/6 oof shots on a series of 40 on those condition and in fact when i shoot in real life i'm not confident the target will be in focus, so my question.

Leigh A · May 1, 2024

Unless you're doing it locked down on a tripod, with a non-moving target, and a remote shutter trigger, you can expect inconsistent results, whereas even if you performed the test 100 times, you'll never get the same results.

drsnoopy · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
drsnoopy said:

stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Single shot with AF on the shutter button (which is what you describe) should give you the same result every time as long as you have a good focus point. You may get some variation within bursts at a high frame rate. Personally if I wanted 40 shots of a static subject I would focus just the once - I use BBF - and then take the 40 shots. If you’re seeing inconsistency, I suspect what’s happening is that your focus point isn’t sufficiently well defined - PDAF has difficulty with horizontal lines - so it’s choosing a slightly different AF point each time.

Click to expand...

Thx for your reply.

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

Well it’s a very artificial situation and I doubt anyone will have tried exactly what you describe. Maybe you should do it and let us know.

drsnoopy · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
cnyphotoguy said:

stefanik said:

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

Click to expand...

Genuinely curious what value there is to set up such a test if you acknowledge that it's not that useful.

Click to expand...

Sure I've presented the question in the wrong way.

Generally i don't go out taking 40 shots of the same target but at the same time i'm concerned about the ability of an AF sytem to be trusted when it says ok your (static) target is in focus but it is not!

How do you test this ability?

With my actual equipment i take 4/6 oof shots on a series of 40 on those condition and in fact when i shoot in real life i'm not confident the target will be in focus, so my question.

And what equipment are you using? What do you think is the problem? All I can say is my R5 seems very consistent indeed. But I use BBF or on-screen touch focus, which means the focus distance stays where I put it, almost like MF. Using the shutter button for AF is a different issue, as you are re-focusing each time.

Alastair Norcross · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Do you want one-shot focus or servo? Are you talking about changing focus to somewhere else in between each of these shots, or just pointing at the same subject over and over again. When you say 'far' subject, how far? I can perform this test easily in my back yard.

stefanik · May 1, 2024

Alastair Norcross said:
stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Do you want one-shot focus or servo? Are you talking about changing focus to somewhere else in between each of these shots, or just pointing at the same subject over and over again. When you say 'far' subject, how far? I can perform this test easily in my back yard.

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

There are dozen of thread reporting Fuji AF-S issue in this situation. I'm only interested to see if this is a common situation or not. Sony users seems to not have any problem: 40 shots 40 shots in focus.

Thanks

stefanik · May 1, 2024

drsnoopy said:
stefanik said:

cnyphotoguy said:

stefanik said:

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

Click to expand...

Genuinely curious what value there is to set up such a test if you acknowledge that it's not that useful.

Click to expand...

Sure I've presented the question in the wrong way.

Generally i don't go out taking 40 shots of the same target but at the same time i'm concerned about the ability of an AF sytem to be trusted when it says ok your (static) target is in focus but it is not!

How do you test this ability?

With my actual equipment i take 4/6 oof shots on a series of 40 on those condition and in fact when i shoot in real life i'm not confident the target will be in focus, so my question.

Click to expand...

And what equipment are you using? What do you think is the problem? All I can say is my R5 seems very consistent indeed. But I use BBF or on-screen touch focus, which means the focus distance stays where I put it, almost like MF. Using the shutter button for AF is a different issue, as you are re-focusing each time.

At the moment i have Fuji and there are some threads reporting this inconsistency with AF-S

Alastair Norcross · May 1, 2024

stefanik said:
Alastair Norcross said:

stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Do you want one-shot focus or servo? Are you talking about changing focus to somewhere else in between each of these shots, or just pointing at the same subject over and over again. When you say 'far' subject, how far? I can perform this test easily in my back yard.

Click to expand...

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

There are dozen of thread reporting Fuji AF-S issue in this situation. I'm only interested to see if this is a common situation or not. Sony users seems to not have any problem: 40 shots 40 shots in focus.

Thanks

OK, I've just done it. 40 shots in one-shot focus mode with the RF 35 F1.8 at F8 1/125 handheld, focused on lettering on a skip on the other side of my street (so about 100 feet away) using spot focus. Every shot was sharp, which is what I would expect. I also took three in servo mode, before I remembered to switch to one-shot (I almost always use servo, even for static subjects). Those three were also sharp. I'm sure Nikon would also be fine. I've read that Fuji AF isn't quite up to Canon, Nikon, or Sony, but I'm surprised it struggles with such a basic test. Much more important for me is servo focus wide open on fast lenses, both static and moving subjects. For that, my R6II also returns pretty much a perfect keeper rate. At the moment (before the release of the R5II and R1) the R6II probably has the best AF of any camera on the market, including the R3. Subject tracking, eye detect, is nothing short of miraculous.

stefanik · May 1, 2024

Alastair Norcross said:
stefanik said:

Alastair Norcross said:

stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Do you want one-shot focus or servo? Are you talking about changing focus to somewhere else in between each of these shots, or just pointing at the same subject over and over again. When you say 'far' subject, how far? I can perform this test easily in my back yard.

Click to expand...

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

There are dozen of thread reporting Fuji AF-S issue in this situation. I'm only interested to see if this is a common situation or not. Sony users seems to not have any problem: 40 shots 40 shots in focus.

Thanks

Click to expand...

OK, I've just done it. 40 shots in one-shot focus mode with the RF 35 F1.8 at F8 1/125 handheld, focused on lettering on a skip on the other side of my street (so about 100 feet away) using spot focus. Every shot was sharp, which is what I would expect. I also took three in servo mode, before I remembered to switch to one-shot (I almost always use servo, even for static subjects). Those three were also sharp. I'm sure Nikon would also be fine. I've read that Fuji AF isn't quite up to Canon, Nikon, or Sony, but I'm surprised it struggles with such a basic test. Much more important for me is servo focus wide open on fast lenses, both static and moving subjects. For that, my R6II also returns pretty much a perfect keeper rate. At the moment (before the release of the R5II and R1) the R6II probably has the best AF of any camera on the market, including the R3. Subject tracking, eye detect, is nothing short of miraculous.

thanks a lot for you time. Glad to hear your results and comments.

i know, at first this is something strange to ask but before the last two firmware update that mitigate a bit, we experienced such annoyng behaviour

Simple Coffee · May 1, 2024

drsnoopy said:
drsnoopy wrote:

PDAF has difficulty with horizontal lines - so it’s choosing a slightly different AF point each time.

THANK YOU!! This may well explain something that I have experienced that seemed insanely odd: the inability of my R6m2 in spot focus to correctly select the (to me) obvious bird feeder against a completely differently colored, and not busy, background. The feeder is tube shaped, vertically oriented, and camera even sometimes puts a box around it, but likes to usually put the whole scene out of focus. Not that I often take pictures of feeder, but use it to try to at least be focused on where birds will hopefully be.

It at least gives me something to look for when having focusing issues, which is helpful.

Wingsfan · May 1, 2024

Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I would just acquire Focus and then drop the hammer. Why risk losing the same point of focus with camera motion every time you press the shutter button. Whenever I want to get something tricky like a bird or something distant, in my case it would be a much longer focal length, that's what I would do. I realize 35 is a bit wider and you're probably not running up against focal length and shutter speed issues.

Or you could always Focus manually.

R2D2 · May 2, 2024

stefanik said:
Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

I think what everyone is getting at, is that we could help you in a much more in-depth manner if you gave us some more information about what subject(s) you are shooting and what you are looking to achieve with this particular (R6ii + 35mm or wider) combination. Would it just be landscapes and cityscapes and/or wide-field astro (as you infer), or would you also want to shoot people, events, sports, etc at some point with this combo?

Myself, I mainly shoot events, sports, portraits, products, and video with this particular body. It's my #1 selection due primarily to the strength of its autofocus, esp with very difficult subjects and in challenging conditions. (The R5 is my birding/wildlife body, the R7 my macro body, and R6 is my backup).

The main reason I question your testing methodology here is that there would be IMHO much more valid tests (or information) that we could give you that might possibly help in your decision.

So first, if you take a look at the depth of field charts, a 35mm lens set to f/8 and infinity on a FF camera body will result in EVERYTHING being in focus from 17 feet to infinity. Or even better, if you focused on an object 17 feet away (the hyperfocal distance), then everything from 8 1/2 feet away to infinity would be in focus.

I daresay that if a camera is having trouble achieving focus with this test, then there is something else (even more nefarious) going on.

However if you want to dig deeper into the R6ii's focusing system, there have been many discussions involving more particular (focusing) situations, and I'm sure we'd all be very eager to help out with whatever questions you might have about your particular situations.

So holler away! We'd give you a proper welcome into the Forum. :-D

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

Zeee · May 2, 2024

no text

You just need to keep the forests wet

stefanik · May 2, 2024

R2D2 said:
stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

Click to expand...

I think what everyone is getting at, is that we could help you in a much more in-depth manner if you gave us some more information about what subject(s) you are shooting and what you are looking to achieve with this particular (R6ii + 35mm or wider) combination. Would it just be landscapes and cityscapes and/or wide-field astro (as you infer), or would you also want to shoot people, events, sports, etc at some point with this combo?

Myself, I mainly shoot events, sports, portraits, products, and video with this particular body. It's my #1 selection due primarily to the strength of its autofocus, esp with very difficult subjects and in challenging conditions. (The R5 is my birding/wildlife body, the R7 my macro body, and R6 is my backup).

The main reason I question your testing methodology here is that there would be IMHO much more valid tests (or information) that we could give you that might possibly help in your decision.

So first, if you take a look at the depth of field charts, a 35mm lens set to f/8 and infinity on a FF camera body will result in EVERYTHING being in focus from 17 feet to infinity. Or even better, if you focused on an object 17 feet away (the hyperfocal distance), then everything from 8 1/2 feet away to infinity would be in focus.

I daresay that if a camera is having trouble achieving focus with this test, then there is something else (even more nefarious) going on.

However if you want to dig deeper into the R6ii's focusing system, there have been many discussions involving more particular (focusing) situations, and I'm sure we'd all be very eager to help out with whatever questions you might have about your particular situations.

So holler away! We'd give you a proper welcome into the Forum. :-D

R2

Hi, this is a very big welcome, thak you very mutch.

I know that my question seems very strange at first and, you know, i'm very happy to ear this because it means that my actual behaviour is a very strange one and not something i can expect from others brands (i'm currently Fuji).

As explained in another reply, at the moment i'm facing focusing inconsistency: i'm not confident that the shot i want to take will be in focus in AF-S. This happens mainly with WA lenses stopped down at least at 5.6 (or more) at infinity. This was reported many times in Fuji forum and Fuji released two firmware updates with the aim of address this issue. The issue is mitigated but not completely solved. Of course not all Fuji bodies seems to be affected by this, and many users reported huge improvements with latest fw updates, but not me.

To give you some numbers, if i take 40 shots with a 35mm eq lens at f8 in AF-S of a well contrasted target at infinity, i can get at worst 4/6 slightly or oof shots. To me it is not acceptable and, as worst, they came unpredictably: the first, the last or any other among the 40. I did several (trust me several) tests.

To give you an example, this is my last post on Fuji forum.

So i'm looking at some alternatives and of course Canon should be one. From this, my question here.

I'm not a professional. I like very much taking photo but I don't have a specific photo genre: i like to have family shots, sports when it happens, as street, vacation and so on. The only thing i'm looking is a camera system that can give me the confidence the shot will be taken, of course with the exclusion of user error and after a learning period (every system has it's peculiarity).

Lenses i use the most are 21, 35 and 85mm eq.

I've found the R6mkii + the 35 STM very appealing but i'm concerned about the lens AF performance.

May i ask you if you have real experience with this combo? Is it able to track, for instance, kids playing?

Thanks in advanvance

c h u n k · May 2, 2024

stefanik said:
drsnoopy said:

stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Single shot with AF on the shutter button (which is what you describe) should give you the same result every time as long as you have a good focus point. You may get some variation within bursts at a high frame rate. Personally if I wanted 40 shots of a static subject I would focus just the once - I use BBF - and then take the 40 shots. If you’re seeing inconsistency, I suspect what’s happening is that your focus point isn’t sufficiently well defined - PDAF has difficulty with horizontal lines - so it’s choosing a slightly different AF point each time.

Click to expand...

Thx for your reply.

Of course this is only a test in order to judge the consistency of the focus system on a controlled target, nothing related to real life shooting experience.

How reliable is the R6Mkii AF system on these situation?

I shoot the R6 and mot the R6ii, but unless the light is very tricky, with static subjects using servo and bbf, my hit rate can approach 100% over 40 images often.

c h u n k · May 2, 2024

stefanik said:
R2D2 said:

stefanik said:

Hi all,

i'm tempted by an R6Mkii but i have a question: with a 35mm (or less) at f8 if you take a sequence of 40 pictures on a far static subject (always the same) in Spot AF, which is your hit rate? How mutch of the 40 are oof or slightly oof?

I mean half press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo then from the beginning: press the shutter, acquire the focus, full press, take the photo and so on 40 times.

One-Shot at infinity whithout changing focus to something else. Simply retake the same shots 40 times (refocusing each time). The key point is a 35mm or less, at f8.

Click to expand...

I think what everyone is getting at, is that we could help you in a much more in-depth manner if you gave us some more information about what subject(s) you are shooting and what you are looking to achieve with this particular (R6ii + 35mm or wider) combination. Would it just be landscapes and cityscapes and/or wide-field astro (as you infer), or would you also want to shoot people, events, sports, etc at some point with this combo?

Myself, I mainly shoot events, sports, portraits, products, and video with this particular body. It's my #1 selection due primarily to the strength of its autofocus, esp with very difficult subjects and in challenging conditions. (The R5 is my birding/wildlife body, the R7 my macro body, and R6 is my backup).

The main reason I question your testing methodology here is that there would be IMHO much more valid tests (or information) that we could give you that might possibly help in your decision.

So first, if you take a look at the depth of field charts, a 35mm lens set to f/8 and infinity on a FF camera body will result in EVERYTHING being in focus from 17 feet to infinity. Or even better, if you focused on an object 17 feet away (the hyperfocal distance), then everything from 8 1/2 feet away to infinity would be in focus.

I daresay that if a camera is having trouble achieving focus with this test, then there is something else (even more nefarious) going on.

However if you want to dig deeper into the R6ii's focusing system, there have been many discussions involving more particular (focusing) situations, and I'm sure we'd all be very eager to help out with whatever questions you might have about your particular situations.

So holler away! We'd give you a proper welcome into the Forum. :-D

R2

Click to expand...

Hi, this is a very big welcome, thak you very mutch.

I know that my question seems very strange at first and, you know, i'm very happy to ear this because it means that my actual behaviour is a very strange one and not something i can expect from others brands (i'm currently Fuji).

As explained in another reply, at the moment i'm facing focusing inconsistency: i'm not confident that the shot i want to take will be in focus in AF-S. This happens mainly with WA lenses stopped down at least at 5.6 (or more) at infinity. This was reported many times in Fuji forum and Fuji released two firmware updates with the aim of address this issue. The issue is mitigated but not completely solved. Of course not all Fuji bodies seems to be affected by this, and many users reported huge improvements with latest fw updates, but not me.

To give you some numbers, if i take 40 shots with a 35mm eq lens at f8 in AF-S of a well contrasted target at infinity, i can get at worst 4/6 slightly or oof shots. To me it is not acceptable and, as worst, they came unpredictably: the first, the last or any other among the 40. I did several (trust me several) tests.

To give you an example, this is my last post on Fuji forum.

So i'm looking at some alternatives and of course Canon should be one. From this, my question here.

I'm not a professional. I like very much taking photo but I don't have a specific photo genre: i like to have family shots, sports when it happens, as street, vacation and so on. The only thing i'm looking is a camera system that can give me the confidence the shot will be taken, of course with the exclusion of user error and after a learning period (every system has it's peculiarity).

Lenses i use the most are 21, 35 and 85mm eq.

I've found the R6mkii + the 35 STM very appealing but i'm concerned about the lens AF performance.

May i ask you if you have real experience with this combo? Is it able to track, for instance, kids playing?

Thanks in advanvance

R2 really did ask you specific questions for a reason. We dont know what you are trying to focus on, what you are shooting, or what mwthods you use. Generally speaking, if you are getting rid of some variables by shooting on a tripod, good light, contrasted and large subject, Canon brand RF lens, you can easily get 100% in focus exactly where you want it. You can easily get 100% handholding, in less than perfect light with the right methods as well. But....if you are trying to focus on a fly on a moving branch 10' away, you might have unrealistic expectations.

Hit rate with R6 Mkii

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