Resolution vs format.

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Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
 
Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
With my own simplistic model of how cameras work I would say the following:

The same lens is capable of projecting twice as many lines on the larger sensor than it is on the smaller sensor.

If the sensors have the same pixel size, then the larger sensor will capture all of the lines, just like the smaller sensor, so larger sensor captures two times more lines.

If the sensors have the same number of pixels, it now depends what was the limiting factor for the smaller sensor, if it was the lens or the pixel pitch:
  • If lens was the limiting factor, then the larger sensor will be able to capture more lines.
  • If the pixel pitch was limiting then the larger sensor captures the same number of lines.
If one lens is twice as sharp, then both sensors will have projected the same number of lines.

If the sensors have the same number of pixels they will be able to capture the same number of lines.

If the sensors have the same pixel size it depends on what the limiting factor was for the smaller sensor:
  • If the pixel size was limiting, then the larger sensor will be able to capture more lines
  • If the lens was the limiting factor, then the larger sensor will capture the same number of lines.
 
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Wouldn't the discussion and answer be more useful if you used real-world examples?

How about one of the PhaseOne sensors vs. whatever would be half its size? Phase has some pretty great new lenses and Canon or Nikon surely has something that would work.
 
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Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
If the lenses with same resolution are sharp enough to outresolve the sensors (same pixel size) the 2x sharper lens will have no effect.

(I´ve seen you argue earlier that a m43 lens needs to be 2x sharper than a FF lens, but that must rest on the assumtion that the FF lens can´t outresolve the often smaller m43 pixels, which I find to not be true for a lot of FF lenses).
 
Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
Hi,

The simple answer is that what matters are:
  • The diameter of the inlet pupil.
  • The megapixels on the sensor.
So, if you have a 10 mm inlet pupil and a 40 MP sensor you will have pretty much the same results.

With a larger sensor and having the luxury of a longer exposure you would get less noise, normalised to the sensor area.

Now, that would apply to near diffraction limited lenses. Real world may be somewhat different.

See it this was, sensor resolution limits the detail the camera can resolve. If you put a 300 $ kit lens on a Canon 5DsR, it will resolve to 50 MP. You put a 5000 $ lens on the same camera and it will still resolve 50MP. But, it may do it with higher acutance and at a larger aperture.

But, acutance will always be limited by diffraction and that only depends on inlet aperture.

Now, let's say that you shoot on a 25 mm lens on 4/3. That 10 mm inlet pupil would translate to f/2.5. No problem building a great f/2.5 lens.

On 24x36 mm it would be f/5.

Going to 54x41 mm it would be more like 80/8 and at f/8 you may see some diffraction effects creeping in.

Best regards

Erik
 
Wouldn't the discussion and answer be more useful if you used real-world examples?

How about one of the PhaseOne sensors vs. whatever would be half its size? Phase has some pretty great new lenses and Canon or Nikon surely has something that would work.
Here we go.
 
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Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
There are two straightforward cases:
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system resolution in (lp/mm)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 2x normalised resolution (lw/ph)
And:
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system normalised resolution
  • Sensors have similar normalised resolution (lw/ph)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 0.5x absolute resolution of smaller sensor +lens.
There will be second order differences if the lens resolutions expressed as lp/mm are the same, but the exact profiles of the lens point spread functions (and the corresponding optical transfer functions) differ.

Another potential source of difference is crosstalk between adjacent pixels, which is potentially greater for the small pixel cases because:
  • Pixels are more closely packed
  • Wider cone (higher NA) of light incident on smaller pixels
This effect will be weak for modest F-numbers of f/4 or higher. It could be significant for F/1.4 and ~1 μm pixel pitch, compared with F/2.8 and 2 μm pixels.

For the remaining cases we again convolve the lens and pixel point spread functions. This time the relative magnitudes of lens PSF and pixel widths differ.
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count and different pixel size
  • Larger sensor case has lower resolution (lp/mm), but higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively less influence from lens resolution
  • Smaller sensor case shows higher absolute resolution (lp/mm) but lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively more influence by lens resolution
and
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size and different count
  • Larger sensor has higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), but lens resolution has proportionately larger impact. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is lower
  • Smaller sensor has lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), but shows relatively less softening due to lens. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is higher.
In each case, the actual ratio of resolutions will depend on the relative contributions of lens and pixel pitch.
 
Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
There are two straightforward cases:
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system resolution in (lp/mm)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 2x normalised resolution (lw/ph)
And:
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system normalised resolution
  • Sensors have similar normalised resolution (lw/ph)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 0.5x absolute resolution of smaller sensor +lens.
There will be second order differences if the lens resolutions expressed as lp/mm are the same, but the exact profiles of the lens point spread functions (and the corresponding optical transfer functions) differ.

Another potential source of difference is crosstalk between adjacent pixels, which is potentially greater for the small pixel cases because:
  • Pixels are more closely packed
  • Wider cone (higher NA) of light incident on smaller pixels
This effect will be weak for modest F-numbers of f/4 or higher. It could be significant for F/1.4 and ~1 μm pixel pitch, compared with F/2.8 and 2 μm pixels.

For the remaining cases we again convolve the lens and pixel point spread functions. This time the relative magnitudes of lens PSF and pixel widths differ.
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count and different pixel size
  • Larger sensor case has lower resolution (lp/mm), but higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively less influence from lens resolution
  • Smaller sensor case shows higher absolute resolution (lp/mm) but lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively more influence by lens resolution
and
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size and different count
  • Larger sensor has higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), but lens resolution has proportionately larger impact. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is lower
  • Smaller sensor has lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), but shows relatively less softening due to lens. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is higher.
.
In each case, the actual ratio of resolutions will depend on the relative contributions of lens and pixel pitch.
(Assuming that micro-lens and filter-stack assemblies have equal optical effects relative to identically shaped photosite apertures on both sensors, and with a simple model in 1-D), a comparison would seem to involve the taking of the ratio of the individual system responses:

MTF (f) = ( 2 / pi ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * | ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( pi * f * p ) |

which can be restated a bit more simply as:

MTF (f) = ( 2 ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * | ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( (pi)^2 * f * p ) |

where 0 < f < 1

and f represents Cycles / (Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Cycles / Wavelength]; p represents Photosites / (Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Photosites / Wavelength].

Am I getting this right, Alan ? I am rusty with this stuff, with most of my thoughts in 2013.
 
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Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
There are two straightforward cases:
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system resolution in (lp/mm)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 2x normalised resolution (lw/ph)
And:
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system normalised resolution
  • Sensors have similar normalised resolution (lw/ph)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 0.5x absolute resolution of smaller sensor +lens.
There will be second order differences if the lens resolutions expressed as lp/mm are the same, but the exact profiles of the lens point spread functions (and the corresponding optical transfer functions) differ.

Another potential source of difference is crosstalk between adjacent pixels, which is potentially greater for the small pixel cases because:
  • Pixels are more closely packed
  • Wider cone (higher NA) of light incident on smaller pixels
This effect will be weak for modest F-numbers of f/4 or higher. It could be significant for F/1.4 and ~1 μm pixel pitch, compared with F/2.8 and 2 μm pixels.

For the remaining cases we again convolve the lens and pixel point spread functions. This time the relative magnitudes of lens PSF and pixel widths differ.
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count and different pixel size
  • Larger sensor case has lower resolution (lp/mm), but higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively less influence from lens resolution
  • Smaller sensor case shows higher absolute resolution (lp/mm) but lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively more influence by lens resolution
and
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size and different count
  • Larger sensor has higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), but lens resolution has proportionately larger impact. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is lower
  • Smaller sensor has lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), but shows relatively less softening due to lens. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is higher.
.
In each case, the actual ratio of resolutions will depend on the relative contributions of lens and pixel pitch.
(Assuming that micro-lens and filter-stack assemblies have equal optical effects relative to identically shaped photosite apertures on both sensors, and with a simple model in 1-D), a comparison would seem to involve the taking of the ratio of the individual system responses:

MTF (f) = ( 2 / pi ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( pi * f * p )

which can be restated a bit more simply as:

MTF (f) = ( 2 ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( (pi)^2 * f * p )

where 0 < f < 1

and f represents Cycles/(Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Cycles/Wavelength], and p represents Photosites/(Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Photosites/Wavelength].

Am I getting this right, Alan ? I am rusty with this stuff, with most of my thoughts in 2013.
Looks correct.

Here, SPIE (eq 1.28) give the diffraction-limited MTF for a circular lens aperture, which is the first half of your formula.

A 1-D slice through the MTF of a rectangular pixel is given by your sinc(π p f) function, whose first zero is at pf=1.

The lens MTF formula would apply in case 2 (lenses have same normalised resolution lw/ph) and case 4, if the lenses are diffraction limited.

For the other cases, where the lenses have the same (lp/mm) absolute spatial resolution, they cannot be diffraction-limited if (as specified) they operate at different F-number to give identical DoF.

Cheers
 
Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
There are two straightforward cases:
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system resolution in (lp/mm)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 2x normalised resolution (lw/ph)
And:
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count.
  • Convolution of lens point spread function with pixel area gives very similar system normalised resolution
  • Sensors have similar normalised resolution (lw/ph)
  • Larger sensor +lens delivers 0.5x absolute resolution of smaller sensor +lens.
There will be second order differences if the lens resolutions expressed as lp/mm are the same, but the exact profiles of the lens point spread functions (and the corresponding optical transfer functions) differ.

Another potential source of difference is crosstalk between adjacent pixels, which is potentially greater for the small pixel cases because:
  • Pixels are more closely packed
  • Wider cone (higher NA) of light incident on smaller pixels
This effect will be weak for modest F-numbers of f/4 or higher. It could be significant for F/1.4 and ~1 μm pixel pitch, compared with F/2.8 and 2 μm pixels.

For the remaining cases we again convolve the lens and pixel point spread functions. This time the relative magnitudes of lens PSF and pixel widths differ.
  • Lenses have identical resolution (lp/mm)
  • Sensors have identical pixel count and different pixel size
  • Larger sensor case has lower resolution (lp/mm), but higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively less influence from lens resolution
  • Smaller sensor case shows higher absolute resolution (lp/mm) but lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), with relatively more influence by lens resolution
and
  • Lenses have identical resolution normalised to sensor size (lw/ph)
  • Sensors have identical pixel size and different count
  • Larger sensor has higher normalised resolution (lw/ph), but lens resolution has proportionately larger impact. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is lower
  • Smaller sensor has lower normalised resolution (lw/ph), but shows relatively less softening due to lens. Absolute resolution (lp/mm) is higher.
.
In each case, the actual ratio of resolutions will depend on the relative contributions of lens and pixel pitch.
(Assuming that micro-lens and filter-stack assemblies have equal optical effects relative to identically shaped photosite apertures on both sensors, and with a simple model in 1-D), a comparison would seem to involve the taking of the ratio of the individual system responses:

MTF (f) = ( 2 / pi ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( pi * f * p )

which can be restated a bit more simply as:

MTF (f) = ( 2 ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( (pi)^2 * f * p )

where 0 < f < 1

and f represents Cycles/(Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Cycles/Wavelength], and p represents Photosites/(Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Photosites/Wavelength].

Am I getting this right, Alan ? I am rusty with this stuff, with most of my thoughts in 2013.
Looks correct.

Here, SPIE (eq 1.28) give the diffraction-limited MTF for a circular lens aperture, which is the first half of your formula.
This archived document has a really slick write-up about circular aperture (with nice graphics).

This archived document similarly covers diffraction through a rectangular aperture.

This URL (at same CNX site) discusses and demos "The Convolution Theorem and Diffraction".
A 1-D slice through the MTF of a rectangular pixel is given by your sinc(π p f) function, whose first zero is at pf=1.

The lens MTF formula would apply in case 2 (lenses have same normalised resolution lw/ph) and case 4, if the lenses are diffraction limited.

For the other cases, where the lenses have the same (lp/mm) absolute spatial resolution, they cannot be diffraction-limited if (as specified) they operate at different F-number to give identical DoF.
 
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Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.

Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
I think the answers are rather straightforward, but that the reality of today renders the answers moot.

From a practical point of view the sensors are far enough away from the resolution limitations of reasonably good lenses at reasonable apertures that the final mtf at high frequencies will depend a lot on sensor resolution. And as long as we are in that domain, more pixels will simply produce substantially higher resolution.

Even a lens lens such as the venerable low cost Canon 85mm f1.8 has resolution enough that the sensor in the 5Dsr produces ugly aliasing here at DPR. And the modern designs perform much better, and are just more limited by the sensor.

And there are no half size sensors with that kind of resolution, 20MP is the most you're getting, so any comparison at similar sensor resolutions at higher level is impossible.

Roger Cicala has produced some mtf data for m43 lenses, but not anywhere close to Nyquist for modern sensors, which is also true for the lenses catering to the 35mm sensor format, so reasonable data for comparison is thin on the ground indeed.

From a practical standpoint, while m43 lenses may actually resolve twice as well as some FF lens counterparts, they don't do twice as well as the best. (There may for instance be tolerances in manufacturing that are constant regardless of image circle.)

For example, the superb Olympus 45mm f1.2 is not quite twice the resolution of the equally superb new Canon 85mm f1.4 at corresponding apertures (2.8 vs. 5.6) . It's not terribly far off though, so designing for a smaller image circle and absolute aperture seems to bring benefits.

But the resolution advantages in lp/mm of lenses designed for smaller image circles is largely wasted if the sensors aren't available to demonstrate their pedigree. It's a bit of a mystery to me why you would produce excellent lenses and then hamstring their performance by middling sensor resolution. It would seem to weaken the case for lucrative lens sales. Nevertheless, that's where we stand today.
 
Let's say we have two sensors, one twice the size (4x the area) as another, and, for the sake of simplicity, assume no AA filter. Let's say we use two lenses that each have the same resolution (lp/mm) at the same DOF (e.g. f/4 and f/8).

How will the resolution in the photos (lw/ph) compare if:
  • the sensors have the same pixel count?
The bigger sensor will have more resolution because the lens blur radius will be smaller in proportion to the pixel size.
  • the sensors have the same pixel size?
The bigger sensor will have more resolution because it has more pixels, but it wont be 2X as good because the pixels will be smaller relative to the lens blur radius.
Repeat the question where the lens used on smaller sensor is twice as sharp (lp/mm) as the lens used on the larger sensor.
Both sensors will have very similar resolution in the first case, and the smaller sensor will have less resolution in the second case for the same reason. However, this will ONLY be true if you reduce the f/number on the smaller sensor to f/2 and f/4.

Otherwise it will not have double the resolution, as resolution is diffraction limited. (Rayleigh limit = 1.22*N*wavelength)

And, at f/2, you will probably have to contend with aberrations.
Do the answers depend on the contrast level at which the sharpness level is measured?
Yes and no. No, if you just want a more/less comparison, but yes if you want to quantify it. MTF curves for the sensors and lenses will be different in each case, so you will get different multiples of lens and sensor MTF at each frequency.
 
the actual ratio of resolutions will depend on the relative contributions of lens and pixel pitch.
For none other than pure "aesthetics" (as opposed to strict mathematical necessity), I decided to restate the latter identity below (to a form probably more "swank" to mathematicians):

(Assuming that micro-lens and filter-stack assemblies have equal optical effects relative to identically shaped photosite apertures on both sensors, and with a simple model in 1-D), a comparison would seem to involve the taking of the ratio of the individual system responses:

MTF (f) = ( 2 / pi ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * | ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( pi * f * p ) |

which can be restated a bit more simply as:

MTF (f) = ( 2 / pi^2 ) * ( ArcCos( f ) - ( f ) * Sqrt( 1 - ( f )^2 ) ) * | ( Sin( pi * f * p ) ) / ( f * p ) |

where 0 < f < 1

and f represents Cycles / (Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Cycles / Wavelength]; p represents Photosites / (Wavelength*N) [or more precisely (2*NA) Photosites / Wavelength].

 
I think the answers are rather straightforward, but that the reality of today renders the answers moot.
And since we are dipping our toes in reality we might as well talk about the fact that if one is not shooting on a tripod with a focus rail two of the biggest issues are going to be camera vibration and focusing performance, both of which problems are amplified on a smaller sensor.
 
I think the answers are rather straightforward, but that the reality of today renders the answers moot.
And since we are dipping our toes in reality we might as well talk about the fact that if one is not shooting on a tripod with a focus rail two of the biggest issues are going to be camera vibration and focusing performance, both of which problems are amplified on a smaller sensor.
Hi Jack,

Regarding focusing, I have started a thread on that issue over here.

Regarding vibration, I would guess that modern EVF cameras with EFCS have very little of that aside from external conditions, like vibrations from traffic, wind etc.

Best regards

Erik
 
Jack Hogan wrote: And since we are dipping our toes in reality we might as well talk about the fact that if one is not shooting on a tripod with a focus rail two of the biggest issues are going to be camera vibration and focusing performance, both of which problems are amplified on a smaller sensor.
Regarding vibration, I would guess that modern EVF cameras with EFCS have very little of that aside from external conditions, like vibrations from traffic, wind etc.
Right Erik. I was thinking not-on-a-tripod = handheld.
 
Jack Hogan wrote: And since we are dipping our toes in reality we might as well talk about the fact that if one is not shooting on a tripod with a focus rail two of the biggest issues are going to be camera vibration and focusing performance, both of which problems are amplified on a smaller sensor.
Regarding vibration, I would guess that modern EVF cameras with EFCS have very little of that aside from external conditions, like vibrations from traffic, wind etc.
Right Erik. I was thinking not-on-a-tripod = handheld.
My bad. I am mostly shooting tripod.

Best regards

Erik
 
... if one is not shooting on a tripod with a focus rail two of the biggest issues are going to be ...

... camera vibration and focusing performance, both of which problems are amplified on a smaller sensor.
Could you walk me through your reasonings on that, Jack ? You're probably right, but since you averred it, I figure that such things may be fresher in your mind than mine. Falk Lumo, in his "Understanding Image Sharpness" paper noted such an effect (on focus accuracy as a function of sensor-size) in the case of the use of focusing systems existing separate from the image-sensor (which I inquired about here), but what about the case where the compared image-sensors both have focusing systems operating from on-image-sensor data ? Does increased vulnerability to vibration issue exist due to sensor-size, or due to camera-lens system mass ?
 
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Hi,

Here is one a little bit twisted example. It was shot of a focusing rail:
  • Hasselblad 555/ELD with a Sonnar 180/4CFi on a P45+ back (39 MP) f/5.6
  • Sony A7rII with a Sigma 24-105/4 Art at f/5.6
  • Both cases, image with highest MTF50 chosen from 40 exposures 2.5 mm apart.
Sonnar on P45+ significantly better at f/5.6
Sonnar on P45+ significantly better at f/5.6

Next case, the Sonnar was set to f/11, the aperture i would normally use on MFD.

The Sonnar at f/11, Sigma still at f/5.6.
The Sonnar at f/11, Sigma still at f/5.6.

The sensor used on the P45+ is 37x49 mm, approximately twice the area of the sensor of the A7rII.

The number of pixel along the short axis is very similar, 5444 pixels on the P45+ and 5320 pixels on the A7rII.

A bit of surprise to me that loss of sharpness between f/5.6 and f/11 is so large on the Sonnar.

The MP figures are just an illustration. They are calculated as the number of pixels at MTF > 0.2.

Best regards

Erik

--
Erik Kaffehr
Website: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net
Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
Gallery: http://echophoto.smugmug.com
Articles: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles
 
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