Wow

Klarno said:

If this is the direction Panasonic's lens design is going to take in order to satisfy some irrational obsession with compactness at the expense of functionality

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that's exactly what Micro fourthirds NEEDS because they're way behind in the sensor department, even more so with the new NEX models (Oly really need to Ditch panasonic and review better options for a sensor maker) - that lens could Kill cameras like the G12 overnight - it's not got the F1.8 lenses of the LX, XZ and EX but you can make that up in vastly better high ISO performance and adding faster primes

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

AdamT said:

that's exactly what Micro fourthirds NEEDS because they're way behind in the sensor department,

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I thought they are finally not so far behind, and are closer than ever?

Been reading the gap is narrow, between APS-C and m 4/3 sensors (mainly GH2, and now G3)

GH2 sensor seems to be an improvement, improve , and some reviews claim it's first m 4/3 that gives really good results, favorable to entry level D-SLR's. (of course the price isn't, but that's the price (pun intended one pays, for newer technology.

I'm new to ANY changable lens system, but the Gh2 gives impressive results, at high iso settings, me feels.

noise cleans up really well...detail is maintained (I'm not used to that, with all the FZ's I've owned)

I could post a few examples of what I think is good IQ...

Adam-T said:

even more so with the new NEX models (Oly really need to Ditch panasonic and review better options for a sensor maker) - that lens could Kill cameras like the G12 overnight - it's not got the F1.8 lenses of the LX, XZ and EX but you can make that up in vastly better high ISO performance and adding faster primes

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Funny...I'm reminded of past conversations between me and you,Adam-T and it seems .....I soon see what you have been saying.

P.S. thanks for those conversations, helping me to 'see the light'.

I now most always shoot RAW...thanks to YOU !!

Cheers

ANAYV

kenw said:

As far as the power zoom goes, I wonder if in some bizarre way power zoom actually is allowing them to make the lens more compact??? Perhaps a lot more fine and complex lens group motions possible under servo control? Wild speculation of course...

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Looking at the pictures I'd guess that, fully retracted, the barrel goes all the way back into the lens, which precludes a physical link from the outside to the inside of the lens. If zooming involves moving anything other than the barrel (other elements moving inside), a manual zoom ring is difficult to do in such a compact lens. Mechanical gears, if they're to be sturdy enough, take space, while electrical motors these days have achieved incredible miniaturization and can be placed right where they're needed.

This does look a lot like the lens of the LX5, with similar absolute aperture but tweaked to push the focal plane back by a few mm. The LX5's lens has a very good reputation, so this may actually have decent image quality.

Looks like it might have been cobbled together from several different lenses.. hmm we will see on Friday I suppose.

still a slow lens

I doubt it... but if it's half the lenght of the Zuiko 40-150mm, I would definitely consider buying that.

ntsan said:

I will definitely get the 45-175mm if it is that small as well!

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Klarno said:

amtberg said:

And there's a reason that dedicated video cameras use servo and not manual zoom.

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Judging by the Panasonic AG-AF100, Sony NEX VG-10, the entire range of RED cameras, and pretty much every pro video capture device ever, all of which have in common a complete and utter absence of servo zoom, I don't think the reason is the reason you think it is.
--
http://www.photoklarno.com

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What those cameras have in common is that they use legacy 35mm (or similar) lenses, i.e., there was no choice of servo or no servo.

OTOH, virtually all pro cameras with dedicated lenses have servo zoom.

luisflorit said:

I also don't get all this excitement. People are excited by loosing the zoom and focus rings to save 50grams or a bit of bulk in an already tiny lens??!!

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The 14-42mm is relatively small, but it isn't even remotely in the realm of "pocketable". Due to that, I don't use it very often. The 14mm or 20mm are my lenses of choice, not just due to their fast aperture, but because I can wear them on my hip and go anywhere with them - even belt into my car without taking the camera off. I can't do that with the 14-42mm.

This lens fixes one of the biggest objections people have had to CSCs - "They're only compact until you put a zoom lens on them!" - Well, here you go... a zoom lens that is almost just as compact as a 20mm f/1.7.

Even if you don't want this lens, if you've bought into MFT I think you need to acknowledge that this is a very important release for Panasonic. With increased pressure from Sony this adds significant differentiation in terms of size. The Sony lenses were already bigger with lower quality, now that difference will be even more stark. Those who are size sensitive will have an obvious choice in Panasonic.

luisflorit said:

People are excited before checking its optical performance??!!

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Well certainly that's the thing we'll all be paying close attention to. It has to deliver on optics, but as we've seen even mediocre lenses (looking at you Sony) can sell well if the whole package appeals to buyers. Small size comes with tradeoffs, and optical quality is potentially one of those.

Personally if this lens is anywhere near the IQ of the 14-42mm (not great, but good enough) and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd get one. Size is very important to me with MFT gear. Having a 14mm, 20mm and this lens would be an incredible "go everywhere" combo. I don't care about the focus ring, I'm almost exclusively an AF guy when shooting MFT. As for zoom, I'm typically either at the wide end or the long end, and I don't zoom in/out enough to make me miss the ring. And for shooting video I've found the ring to be very awkward resulting in very visible "stepping" - a smoother electronic zoom would be nicer.

So, congrats Panasonic - this will be a great addition to the MFT lineup!

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

I love it, but how does one manually focus? I know there is the rare chance that my PEN won't pick the right thing to focus on, no matter how hard I try, so I have to manually focus. If I can manually focus, I'll buy one. Maybe two, just in case if the motor breaks.

DjarumBlack said:

I love it, but how does one manually focus? I know there is the rare chance that my PEN won't pick the right thing to focus on, no matter how hard I try, so I have to manually focus. If I can manually focus, I'll buy one. Maybe two, just in case if the motor breaks.

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My guess would be that with existing bodies you won't, but with the new Panasonic bodies you'll likely use buttons or a dial.

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

amtberg said:

What those cameras have in common is that they use legacy 35mm (or similar) lenses, i.e., there was no choice of servo or no servo.

OTOH, virtually all pro cameras with dedicated lenses have servo zoom.

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those are lenses with high quality, internal zoom mechanisms that are built around small sensors. an external zoom lens is never going to be as well dampened or zoom as smoothly as an internal zoom for a small sensor, just look at any point and shoot thats ever existed.

Sam Bennett said:

DjarumBlack said:

I love it, but how does one manually focus? I know there is the rare chance that my PEN won't pick the right thing to focus on, no matter how hard I try, so I have to manually focus. If I can manually focus, I'll buy one. Maybe two, just in case if the motor breaks.

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My guess would be that with existing bodies you won't, but with the new Panasonic bodies you'll likely use buttons or a dial.

--
Sam Bennett
http://www.swiftbennett.com
http://www.flickr.com/sambennett/

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Meh, then I'll probably pass. My next body will most like be a E-P3 when prices come down.

DjarumBlack said:

I love it, but how does one manually focus?

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Im guessing the target market for this isnt asking this type of question. A LOT of people just literally point and shoot and have ZERO concept of focus.. most people are very photo-illiterate.

DjarumBlack said:

I know there is the rare chance that my PEN won't pick the right thing to focus on, no matter how hard I try, so I have to manually focus. If I can manually focus, I'll buy one. Maybe two, just in case if the motor breaks.

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This is a lens designed for p&s upgraders which will never need or use manual focusing.

But with every Panasonic innovation there's the usual horde of detractors. I'm pretty sure many will comment that this is too small, too expensive, too grey, there's too much writing on it etc.

If they bundle this with the GF3 I'm pretty sure they won't be able to satisfy demand.

--
Dev

Rehab is for quitters.

sproket1 said:

still a slow lens

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Yes it is. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't buy one in light of my LX5 covering a wider focal length range at 1.5 stops better.

But it would make a great kit lens for a new buyer.
--
http://www.pbase.com/morepix

Klarno said:

amtberg said:

And there's a reason that dedicated video cameras use servo and not manual zoom.

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Judging by the Panasonic AG-AF100, Sony NEX VG-10, the entire range of RED cameras, and pretty much every pro video capture device ever, all of which have in common a complete and utter absence of servo zoom, I don't think the reason is the reason you think it is.

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The AF100, VG-10 are a new breed of DSLR video killers, offering video camera ergonomics while having a large sensor and accepting still photo lens'. The reason they don't have servo zoom controls is because the lens' that they're compatible with (still camera lens') never have have servo zooms. The video bodies are also in most cases they are also marketed as being compatible through "adapters" to all these other systems of still photo lens' using "dumb adapters" that don't communicate at all electronically or have power for a servo zoom.

And you're wrong about RED, while most RED cameras don't have servo zoom controls (again for the same reason that they're lens' are either PL mount primes (non zooming), and other non servo controlled rebranded lens' (some are tamrons believe it or not). But the new fixed lens' scarlet actually DOES have a servo zoom. And they're doing it right, becuase you can automate it for repeated zoom scripting, becuase zooming does have a purpose in production.

Also realize that there are different video markets. there are cinema style (let's tell a story), and documentary (run and gun) style, among others. Typically the run and gunners all want servo zoom, and the cinema guys are all about locked off non zoom shots, cut to other focal lengths usually, they're all about control of depth of field, while the run and gunners would love depth of field control, but also want servo zoom and good continuous AF.

However, there are techniques such as zooming while dollying, which became popular in recent years. Along with the standard zoom out reveal. Zooming is just another tool, and many videographers are looking for it.

If you look at any fixed lens zoom video camera, I think you'll find a servo zoom in all of them as amtberg said.

Just to throw it out there, of the high high end pro video cameras that have an interchangable lens mount most are 2/3rd sized sensors. Most of the lens' that you get for these systems are actually zoom lens', as it's easier to do in smaller formats and they actually have the servo zoom controls on the lens', much like the new panasonic lens'. These lens' are bright and expensive (like $20,000+) And guess what, many people are trying to mate those lens' to the AF100 to get servo zoom (with focal reducers and the loss of light and all).

I'm just hoping the Panasonic servo zoom is variable and not fixed speed.

As someone else said, it's all about shutting up the people who say there is no zoom that's pocketable. This lens' with the G3 would be really compact, offer similar or better IQ than the XZ1, and have the benefits of being able to swap on a fast prime for the advantages of DoF and low light.

--
Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Nikon D700, Panasonic L1, Olympus e-510
http://www.joesiv.com

morepix said:

sproket1 said:

still a slow lens

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Yes it is. I hate to say it, but I wouldn't buy one in light of my LX5 covering a wider focal length range at 1.5 stops better.

But it would make a great kit lens for a new buyer.

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It's a good point, how many zoom lens' do we need that start at 14mm? If they had made it a 12-35mm, I bet they'd actually have a lot more people ready to buy one just for the extra width!

--
Cloverdale, B.C., Canada
Nikon D700, Panasonic L1, Olympus e-510
http://www.joesiv.com

Klarno said:

If this is the direction Panasonic's lens design is going to take in order to satisfy some irrational obsession with compactness at the expense of functionality, I want no part of it. I can understand that some might want servo zoom for video, but I won't be happy at all if the 12-50 ends up having this sort of design.

I thought servo zoom was one of the things people try to get away from by upgrading to DSLRs. The GF3 users can keep these X lenses IMO...

--
http://www.photoklarno.com

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The obsession with compactness is not irrational; there's a large market for small cameras. And a camera is only a "small camera" when it has a small lens mounted on it.

I really don't think you've got anything to worry about. Consider that Panny just released the 25mm f/1.4, they don't seem to have any notion of abandoning the enthusiast market. Panasonic is a company that, I think, gets the importance of having a complete lineup from top to bottom; I would be shocked if they fail to continue improving both ends of the product line.

This little kit zoom is the perfect fit for a small camera like the GF3, and that kind of combination will really appeal to consumers who would otherwise consider the bulkier NEX setup or the (prior to this, at least) smaller upcoming Fuji/Nikon systems.

Joesiv said:

It's a good point, how many zoom lens' do we need that start at 14mm?

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well, since they Ditched the 14-45, One GOOD one would be a great start for Pansonic !!, at the moment they don't have a decent standard zoom .

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

AdamT said:

Adam-T said:

It's a good point, how many zoom lens' do we need that start at 14mm?

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well, since they Ditched the 14-45, One GOOD one would be a great start for Pansonic !!, at the moment they don't have a decent standard zoom .

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ditched as a kit lens, but they still sell the 14-45 in Japan for 20,000yen "stand alone"

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-CW