Next 4 Alphas

Why all the hubub over the back of the camera buttons? there is one button and one switch on the A700 back that is not on the mockup. The "C" button, which i would miss, and the SSS switch, which stays on 90% of the time for me. Everything else is just moved around. The power switch is moved to the shutter button area. I am more concerned over the direct ISO and WB buttons that were on top. Maybe you can customize the buttons for what you use more. I use ISO and WB FAR more than EV or drive modes. But in reality, i do not mind the menu system as used in the A700, even w/o the diret buttons.
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Film is a four letter word
If Sony removes direct buttons. We have another case of removing features, this would be bad as I don't consider it an upgrade. I use the WB direct button often along with ISO. Hopefully Sony has learned a few things in the previous product cycle. I'm really hoping the A-7XX retains all that was great about the original and adds all that the competition has added over the years.
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In god we trust, all others are suspects
 
The a33, a55, a560 and a580 are all due in August.

After that the next Alpha DSLR will be the A7xx. (possibly accompanied by a NEX 7)
Yep, the 7xx will be a sign saying it's coming someday, while the NEX 7 will be promoted like mad with piles of them all over the place.

Clear lesson, already given at the a7xx level, Sony is not going to support anything but beginner DSLRs.

Walt
 
So, now I see 4 options, 2 pellicle, 2 not.
Yep, that's right, no a7xx. Only beginner cams.
Besides the OVF versus EVF, why would I choose a pellicle model over the A560, A580? What does a pellicle bring to the party, what does it leave behind?
The expectation would be that the main ad point for Sony is going to be high FPS, probably 15FPS or higher, with the AF getting more light it should be able to keep up. They have been test surveying various ad slogans all of which are along that line. Machine gun your shots and pick the best from a pile of video frames seems to be their emphasis.

The biggest problem with pellicule cameras in the past is a true pellicule is extremely thin and delicate. They are almost impossible to clean without damaging them.

Note what Sony is going to put out is nothing like past pellicule cameras. The past ones the pellicule substituted for the mirror in the OVF system. Sony's new camera has no OVF, and the pellicule is only a pick mirror for the AF, serves no other purpose. All viewfinding will be off the sensor via electronic displays.

Walt
 
if they do good research such approach is not needed ...they should know the market by now looking at what sales by competition.

if they need such appraoch to find out, something is clearly wrong at HQ
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All my Post Processing is done with Capture NX2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/marti58/
 
PRO: Pellicle will allow continuous fast AF with Video.

CON: Since some of the light is diverted to the EVF and AF sensors, it will lose some light sensitivity. We have no idea how much, yet.
The EVF shouldn't require any light to be diverted from the image sensor -- the concept drawings indicated that the EVF feed would be coming from the image sensor itself. But yes, the mirror will have to divert some of the incoming light away from the image sensor, and toward the AF module. My guess is that the diverted light will amount to approximately .5 to .7 of a stop.
The pellicle cams may have a mirror-flip mode where it works like a nromal DSLR to get the maximum amount of light on the sensor.
When you say "like a normal DSLR", I assume you mean using phase-detection AF with the mirror down, and then flipping the mirror up for the actual exposure. That would be nice. Or yet another alternative mode that has been discussed as a possibility, would be for it to flip the mirror up and keep it up during and between shots, while allowing manual focus and/or contrast detect AF -- thus mimicking the live view mode of competing DSLR brands, or the main sensor LV mode of the current A500/A550.
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Greg
 
so ... everybody's loving Sony, now?
Too soon to get overly excited, but a little bit is okay. :-) These are still just rumors, right? Is there a link to a Sony announcement? We'll know by the end of August if this rumor is true. Then when we see the actual cameras we will find out whether Sony botched it again by leaving out important stuff, poor implementation, bugs, etc. Remember, we are talking about Sony here. Anyway, I have my fingers crossed.
That is my feeling on this. We know nothing about the a7xx, not even if it will arrive.

But we will see another pile of beginner cameras. The lottery being what's stripped out of them this time.

Nothing on Sony's announcement pages, btw.

Walt
 
if they do good research such approach is not needed ...they should know the market by now looking at what sales by competition.
Look at how many different 32", 40" etc. TVs they produce. It's called "choice".
if they need such appraoch to find out, something is clearly wrong at HQ
Is that why there's always three variants of Nikon's top models? Even the D300 has a variant with one added feature. Is that because Nikon HQ have no clue?
 
The biggest problem with pellicule cameras in the past is a true pellicule is extremely thin and delicate. They are almost impossible to clean without damaging them.

Note what Sony is going to put out is nothing like past pellicule cameras. The past ones the pellicule substituted for the mirror in the OVF system. Sony's new camera has no OVF, and the pellicule is only a pick mirror for the AF, serves no other purpose. All viewfinding will be off the sensor via electronic displays.

Walt
Walt, you're more familiar with the "old" pellicle designs than I am. I really like the overall concept of Sony's proposed design, utlizing a less fragile mirror of more-or-less conventional thickness (in DSLR reflex mirror terms, anyway). But there's one thing about the design that worries me ...

Won't there be a tendency for this relatively thick mirror to create a ghost image on the image sensor that is vertically shifted slightly (a few pixels, maybe) from the main image? Won't this ghost image have to be processed out? And even if Sony is successful in programming their in-camera JPEG engine (and proprietary RAW convertor) to eliminate the ghost image automatically, wouldn't this issue severely limit one's options regarding third-party RAW convertors?

Anyone else who knows the answers to these questions, please feel free to chime in here, as well.
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Greg
 
PRO: Pellicle will allow continuous fast AF with Video.

CON: Since some of the light is diverted to the EVF and AF sensors, it will lose some light sensitivity. We have no idea how much, yet.
The EVF shouldn't require any light to be diverted from the image sensor -- the concept drawings indicated that the EVF feed would be coming from the image sensor itself. But yes, the mirror will have to divert some of the incoming light away from the image sensor, and toward the AF module. My guess is that the diverted light will amount to approximately .5 to .7 of a stop.
EOS 1NRS reduced the light by 1/3 for both AF module and OVF, which is about 0.6 stop loss.
So I believe A33/55 should cost even less light.
The pellicle cams may have a mirror-flip mode where it works like a nromal DSLR to get the maximum amount of light on the sensor.
When you say "like a normal DSLR", I assume you mean using phase-detection AF with the mirror down, and then flipping the mirror up for the actual exposure. That would be nice. Or yet another alternative mode that has been discussed as a possibility, would be for it to flip the mirror up and keep it up during and between shots, while allowing manual focus and/or contrast detect AF -- thus mimicking the live view mode of competing DSLR brands, or the main sensor LV mode of the current A500/A550.
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Greg
 
Even the D300 has a variant with one added feature. Is that because Nikon HQ have no clue?
I assume you're talking about the D300S here. That's not a "variant" -- it's a replacement. A minor upgrade of the D300, to be sure, but an upgrade nonetheless. And most importantly, not being manufactured and sold simultaneously with the D300, as a "variant" would be.

And BTW, if you think the D300S is simply the D300 with "one added feature", it's you who has no clue.
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Greg
 
@ Rich - Yup for now, until another RUMOR from Thom or Bill or anyone else says that SONY is doomed... :)

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-Alex

From the minds of Minolta to the imagination of Sony, Alpha, like no other.

http://www.pbase.com/lonewolf69
 
The EVF shouldn't require any light to be diverted from the image sensor -- the concept drawings indicated that the EVF feed would be coming from the image sensor itself. But yes, the mirror will have to divert some of the incoming light away from the image sensor, and toward the AF module. My guess is that the diverted light will amount to approximately .5 to .7 of a stop.
EOS 1NRS reduced the light by 1/3 for both AF module and OVF, which is about 0.6 stop loss.
So I believe A33/55 should cost even less light.
Could be. But then again, the specs for the current Canon 1-series pro DSLRs show that the semi-transparent main reflex mirror passes 37% of the light through to the secondary mirror that reflects the image to the AF module, with the remaining 63% being reflected directly up toward the OVF. Specs for the lesser models are similar, but with the split being 40/60 instead of 37/63.

If the above means that, in general, the AF module needs to get about 37-40 percent of the incoming light to perform at its best, then that represents a loss of about .7 of a stop (give or take a smidgen). If not, I've hedged a bit by stating that I think it could be as little as .5 of a stop, in the post you replied to.
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Greg
 
EVF-1.44M 1.1X magnification 95%
I thought an EVF pretty much always displays 100%. I wonder if this 95% spec is accurate?
I noticed that too and it made me reconsider having any faith in the rumour as a whole.
Same here -- although I normally have little faith in rumors as a general thing, anyway. But I sure can't think of a valid reason why the coverage of an EVF being fed directly from the image sensor would ever be anything other than 100%.

But what I'm even more interested in finding out, regarding the EVF, is how good a job they've done on the "user interface". That is, how high is the eyepoint on this one? And is it flush with the back of the camera, as is common on Sony DSLRs (or even below flush, as on the Quick AF live view models w/ articulated LCD display), or does it protrude well out from the back of the camera as The Good Lord intended? And what about the refresh rate? I'll be a whole lot more enthusiastic about these cameras (or perhaps a lot less enthusiastic) after we start seeing some factual information from Sony regarding these questions.
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Greg
 
But what I'm even more interested in finding out, regarding the EVF, is how good a job they've done on the "user interface". That is, how high is the eyepoint on this one? And is it flush with the back of the camera, as is common on Sony DSLRs (or even below flush, as on the Quick AF live view models w/ articulated LCD display), or does it protrude well out from the back of the camera as The Good Lord intended? And what about the refresh rate? I'll be a whole lot more enthusiastic about these cameras (or perhaps a lot less enthusiastic) after we start seeing some factual information from Sony regarding these questions.
Same here. We keep hearing how EVFs will "soon" be as good as an OVF, but the most recent one I looked at, the Panasonic GH-1, was no where even near as good as an OVF. I hope these new Sony EVF cameras (if they even exist, it is just a rumor) are at least better than the one in the GH-1.

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
I can't remember a camera Sony released with a bug. Just features that every one wanted for free. There was the bad ergonomic design of the 330 group of cams. So that was the only botched job I can think of. Mostly unreasonable expectations of A700 features in an A200 body from the members of this board.
The A700 still has the firmware sleep mode bug when eyestart is off that was reported years ago. The A700 has the control wheel problem that has hit quite a few people that is probably either bad design, bad QC, or just a batch of bad parts that got in some.

I seem to recall some sort of A100 flash bug, but don't recall for sure. I think there maybe were one or two more, but I don't want to say that definitively since I may just be dreaming. :-)

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com
 
The a33, a55, a560 and a580 are all due in August.

After that the next Alpha DSLR will be the A7xx. (possibly accompanied by a NEX 7)
Yep, the 7xx will be a sign saying it's coming someday, while the NEX 7 will be promoted like mad with piles of them all over the place.

Clear lesson, already given at the a7xx level, Sony is not going to support anything but beginner DSLRs.

Walt
Balderdash, Walt.

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Dulaney
A700; SAL 50 f1.4; SAL 18-250; CZ 85 f1.4
 

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