Z9 Firmware 3.0 bug, continued

[yowstanley]

This is what I'm facing right now. The 3D seem to be over ride by the Auto AF and grab hold to something else rather than the object that was right in the box. The 3D tracking work perfectly fantastic if you use it as the default (assign to AF-ON button) on it own. The problem is only if you assign to Fn1,2 and 3 with conjunction to wideS, wideL, C1 and C2 on AF-ON button.

 

[DarkShift]

Boy this is really confusing, I have 3D mapped to my f1 and f3 buttons but it seems to work great pressing the af/on back button and tracks the eye just fine.

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Bug appears with subject detection off / not detected, so no eye detection should be used to replicate it.

Selected AF-mode must be one the Wide Area modes, which are the worst. Auto-area is affected too.

3D-tracking should track the subject behind focus point/rectangle as per manual (if no subject is detected).

 

[Nicks photo]

Wow, didn’t think the previous thread would reach its maximum number of posts allowed.

Anyway to recap, here is an exact combination that causes this “bug” to appear in firmware 3.0 compared to all previous firmwares, if you would like to test it out:

1- Back button AF-ON: AF-Area + AF-ON to 3D
2- Shutter: Modes Auto, Custom, Wide area boxes and to a lesser extent single causes the 3D to misbehave after 3.0 except Dynamic.

3- AF activation set to Shutter/AF-ON

Subject detection On or Off.

AFC

Testing scenario to clearly see the issue:

1- Place an inanimate object on a table in front of you, and try to track it using the Back button AF-ON, do not press the shutter.

See how the box erratically behaves.

2- Now do the exact same scenario, but change your shutter to Dynamic (again, do not press the shutter)

Now see how the box correctly behaves.

Both scenarios above worked exactly the same prior to 3.0.

1 back button af-on set to wide-L

3. Af activation set to af on only

fn1 button set to 3D tracking.

this still produces the same issues.

Is there a way to revert back to firmware 2.1 ??? And how do you do this.

OR can you do a factory reset and install firmware 3.0 (I heard that might work) - any updates on this really bad problem.?

 

[Nicks photo]

If you assign single point (or any dynamic range af) to af-on back button focusing and 3D to fn1 as an example, the 3D works. But assigning wide-l or s or auto causes issue. I wish to assign wide-l to af-on button and 3D to fn1 (as in version 2.1 - which worked brilliantly) - however not in v3.0. I heard that a reset makes it work ?! But have not tried this. Does anyone have a workaround or does anyone know if we can revert back to v2.1 and how do we do this. Much appreciated for any response as this is driving me mad ?

 

[James Grove]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.

I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.
I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

How did you reset your camera. I had deleted all My Menu items before installing 3.0. After I installed, I tried deleting all settings and then restoring and that did not help. What reset method worked?

 

[Nicks photo]

Craig: Yes, that's the issue. I've seen it , too, and so far I have found no way to get a button programmed to [AF Area Mode]+[AF on] ->3D to get reliable 3D operation if the default AF mode is Auto or one of the wide areas. It works if in subject detection mode and a subject is detected, but not so well if at all if subject not detected. I can't understand the folks who argue that with subject detection so good you never need non-subject 3D. What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or chasing a butterfly the system doesn't recognize as a subject? Or elephants when you want to focus on the eye? Anyway, something odd is going on and I hope Nikon recognizes it and fixes it.

Well, I have many many times where subject detection doesn't work, though with recent firmware changes it sounds like the size of subject detected gets smaller and smaller. That's a good thing for me as I often shoot with subjects at the limit of various ranges. (And crop..)

But here's the thing that I think makes the whole thing go away for me and a lot of others. Set the 'right' thing when pressing the AF button on the side of the camera. Set it to 3D. (Or pinpoint ?)

Now, if you are like so many of us, disable AF from the shutter release. Now set any of the non-shutter-release buttons to whatever AF settings you want, and I think they work fine.

I think - please correct me if I am wrong - that the only function of setting that setting when you press the AF button on the left front of camera is to set the shutter release button's AF function. (3D, Auto, Dynamic, etc.) If you disable AF from the shutter release, I think all this works as expected.

But it does feel like auto-something is bleeding into the 3D tracking otherwise.

What is the ‘right’ thing you mentioned and how can I get this 3D to work correctly, sorry but can you explain it a bit clearer for us who are less than able to understand.

 

[Nicks photo]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.
I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

Is it working for you correctly (I mean the 3D problem described by others), in version 3.0 ? Did you save the menu settings prior to update and then reset camera after update and then load the menu settings - is that how you do it ?

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

Craig: Yes, that's the issue. I've seen it , too, and so far I have found no way to get a button programmed to [AF Area Mode]+[AF on] ->3D to get reliable 3D operation if the default AF mode is Auto or one of the wide areas. It works if in subject detection mode and a subject is detected, but not so well if at all if subject not detected. I can't understand the folks who argue that with subject detection so good you never need non-subject 3D. What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or chasing a butterfly the system doesn't recognize as a subject? Or elephants when you want to focus on the eye? Anyway, something odd is going on and I hope Nikon recognizes it and fixes it.

Well, I have many many times where subject detection doesn't work, though with recent firmware changes it sounds like the size of subject detected gets smaller and smaller. That's a good thing for me as I often shoot with subjects at the limit of various ranges. (And crop..)

But here's the thing that I think makes the whole thing go away for me and a lot of others. Set the 'right' thing when pressing the AF button on the side of the camera. Set it to 3D. (Or pinpoint ?)

Now, if you are like so many of us, disable AF from the shutter release. Now set any of the non-shutter-release buttons to whatever AF settings you want, and I think they work fine.

I think - please correct me if I am wrong - that the only function of setting that setting when you press the AF button on the left front of camera is to set the shutter release button's AF function. (3D, Auto, Dynamic, etc.) If you disable AF from the shutter release, I think all this works as expected.

But it does feel like auto-something is bleeding into the 3D tracking otherwise.

What is the ‘right’ thing you mentioned and how can I get this 3D to work correctly, sorry but can you explain it a bit clearer for us who are less than able to understand.

I'm working on the assumption that the problem is not there (for 3D assigned to AF-ON button) if you set the base AF (default AF option for buttons) to 3D, possibly others including Dynamic. To do this, press the AF button on left front and spin one dial until you have selected 3D. Hopefully the 'multiple green squares' no longer comes up, and hopefully, 3D tracking sticks to the subject better.

My testing was shot, so it could be the green squares still appear, but not as quickly as when I tested.

 

[Donmonte]

I'm working on the assumption that the problem is not there (for 3D assigned to AF-ON button) if you set the base AF (default AF option for buttons) to 3D, possibly others including Dynamic. To do this, press the AF button on left front and spin one dial until you have selected 3D. Hopefully the 'multiple green squares' no longer comes up, and hopefully, 3D tracking sticks to the subject better.

My testing was shot, so it could be the green squares still appear, but not as quickly as when I tested.

 

[James Grove]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.
I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

How did you reset your camera. I had deleted all My Menu items before installing 3.0. After I installed, I tried deleting all settings and then restoring and that did not help. What reset method worked?

Its in the setup menu, reset resets everything accept a few times like time etc.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.
I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

How did you reset your camera. I had deleted all My Menu items before installing 3.0. After I installed, I tried deleting all settings and then restoring and that did not help. What reset method worked?

Its in the setup menu, reset resets everything accept a few times like time etc.

I just tried again, and it did not fix anything.
--
Thanks for your help, Michael

 

[SpartanWarrior]

Boy this is really confusing, I have 3D mapped to my f1 and f3 buttons but it seems to work great pressing the af/on back button and tracks the eye just fine.

-

This is not the reported use case. Issue occurs only if BBAF (the button in the back with AF-ON marking) is set to 3d + af-on while using a wide area AF. Please read the exact context here in https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/66583605

cheers.

Ok now I understand Thanks, I'm sure Nikon knows about it and will issue a firmware to fix it probably soon.

 

[DarkShift]

I reset my camera to avoid the potential of a mymenu bug, I haven’t noticed the AF issue, in fact it’s way better for me.
I have decided to reset my camera after any firmware update, no idea if it helped because I reset it immediately after the update

How did you reset your camera. I had deleted all My Menu items before installing 3.0. After I installed, I tried deleting all settings and then restoring and that did not help. What reset method worked?

Its in the setup menu, reset resets everything accept a few times like time etc.

3D-tracking bug is present also after resettings menu settings few times.

Only these settings need to be changed back:

1) Select AF-C, and AF-mode: Wide Area (one of four)

2) AF-ON button to AF Area Mode + AF-ON: 3D-tracking

3) Subject detection: Off (not to confuse results)

4) Point Area rectangle to a target and press AF-ON down and keep it down. Tracking results are random and often fails lock and track subject in Wide Area center (3D-tracking rectangle should replace it). Various other effects can be happen.

 

[RMcL]

I'm working on the assumption that the problem is not there (for 3D assigned to AF-ON button) if you set the base AF (default AF option for buttons) to 3D, possibly others including Dynamic. To do this, press the AF button on left front and spin one dial until you have selected 3D. Hopefully the 'multiple green squares' no longer comes up, and hopefully, 3D tracking sticks to the subject better.

My testing was shot, so it could be the green squares still appear, but not as quickly as when I tested.

Yes, if you have your shutter set to 3D in conjunction with the Back button AF-On, the problem doesn’t happen.(But other than testing purposes I assume, I don’t know why one would set his camera this way).

If you strictly use BBF only, i.e., deactivate shutter button AF actuation in custom menu a6 then it doesn't matter what the base/default AF area mode is set to (assuming here that AF-ON button is separately assigned to 3D-tracking+AF-ON). Therefore, if setting the base/default AF area mode to 3D-tracking minimizes the manifestations of this bug it is a viable option for a BBF user to consider.

And as mentioned before, Dynamic on the shutter with back button AF-On to 3D works well.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

I'm working on the assumption that the problem is not there (for 3D assigned to AF-ON button) if you set the base AF (default AF option for buttons) to 3D, possibly others including Dynamic. To do this, press the AF button on left front and spin one dial until you have selected 3D. Hopefully the 'multiple green squares' no longer comes up, and hopefully, 3D tracking sticks to the subject better.

My testing was shot, so it could be the green squares still appear, but not as quickly as when I tested.

Yes, if you have your shutter set to 3D in conjunction with the Back button AF-On, the problem doesn’t happen.(But other than testing purposes I assume, I don’t know why one would set his camera this way).

If you strictly use BBF only, i.e., deactivate shutter button AF actuation in custom menu a6 then it doesn't matter what the base/default AF area mode is set to (assuming here that AF-ON button is separately assigned to 3D-tracking+AF-ON).

Actually, it does. My normal mode is to disable AF on shutter release and assign 3d to the AF-ON button. If base AF mode is 3d, then 3d works fine. If I simply change base AF to Auto Area (or the other areas, not dynamic, not 3d), then I start seeing the issue intermittently.

Therefore, if setting the base/default AF area mode to 3D-tracking minimizes the manifestations of this bug it is a viable option for a BBF user to consider.

Well, until I changed base AF mode from 3d, I never knew there was an issue.

I'm thinking Firmware 3.1 is around the corner.

 

[Donmonte]

Actually, it does. My normal mode is to disable AF on shutter release and assign 3d to the AF-ON button. If base AF mode is 3d, then 3d works fine. If I simply change base AF to Auto Area (or the other areas, not dynamic, not 3d), then I start seeing the issue intermittently.

Yes, that is correct.

What i meant, is why have 2 modes (AF-ON and Shutter both set to 3D), use Dynamic on Shutter that way you would have 2 usable options for focus instead of 1.

Of course you could still use the old method of BBF, which still works as good as before.

Hopefully that is clear.

 

[PHXAZCRAIG]

It's been 15 years since I had AF on the shutter release. I'm not sure I can adjust back to it!

Plus, I already have AF modes set for Fn1, 2, 3 and Ln1 and Ln2 on lenses with those buttons. I could use Fn4, but I have that set as the ISO button for underwater photography purposes.

 

[RMcL]

I'm working on the assumption that the problem is not there (for 3D assigned to AF-ON button) if you set the base AF (default AF option for buttons) to 3D, possibly others including Dynamic. To do this, press the AF button on left front and spin one dial until you have selected 3D. Hopefully the 'multiple green squares' no longer comes up, and hopefully, 3D tracking sticks to the subject better.

My testing was shot, so it could be the green squares still appear, but not as quickly as when I tested.

Yes, if you have your shutter set to 3D in conjunction with the Back button AF-On, the problem doesn’t happen.(But other than testing purposes I assume, I don’t know why one would set his camera this way).

If you strictly use BBF only, i.e., deactivate shutter button AF actuation in custom menu a6 then it doesn't matter what the base/default AF area mode is set to (assuming here that AF-ON button is separately assigned to 3D-tracking+AF-ON).

Actually, it does. My normal mode is to disable AF on shutter release and assign 3d to the AF-ON button. If base AF mode is 3d, then 3d works fine. If I simply change base AF to Auto Area (or the other areas, not dynamic, not 3d), then I start seeing the issue intermittently.

Yes, understood . I meant it doesn’t matter in a general sense since shutter button AF actuation is disabled in BBF setup. But, of-course base AF area mode matters for the “bug” we are discussing . Specifically, I was trying to explain to Donmonte that setting base AF mode to 3D tracking does not introduce any redundancy in a strict BBF setup when the AF-ON button is assigned to 3D+AF-ON.

Therefore, if setting the base/default AF area mode to 3D-tracking minimizes the manifestations of this bug it is a viable option for a BBF user to consider.

Well, until I changed base AF mode from 3d, I never knew there was an issue.

Actually, base AF mode = 3D tracking was my setup prior to the onset of this FW v3 saga. More through chance rather than design though. Have yet to try it again, but will soon and will report back.

I'm thinking Firmware 3.1 is around the corner.

--
Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net
"I miss the days when I was nostalgic."

 

[RMcL]

Actually, it does. My normal mode is to disable AF on shutter release and assign 3d to the AF-ON button. If base AF mode is 3d, then 3d works fine. If I simply change base AF to Auto Area (or the other areas, not dynamic, not 3d), then I start seeing the issue intermittently.

Yes, that is correct.

What i meant, is why have 2 modes (AF-ON and Shutter both set to 3D), use Dynamic on Shutter that way you would have 2 usable options for focus instead of 1.

Of course you could still use the old method of BBF, which still works as good as before.

The “bug” is still present even in a strict BBF setup, I.e., when shutter button AF actuation is disabled in custom settings a6, provided all the other discussed conditions for the bug to occur are met.

Hopefully that is clear.

This is a relatively complex issue and hard to describe, but I think most of the main contributors in this thread are now on the same page, more or less