X-T5 - Custom Button To Toggle Spot Metering?

[DNBush]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

 

[Morris0]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Not the peak, the edge of the rise

Works great though I used the flashing highlight method and one click under it.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Well yeah, you are. The idea is to always expose the brightest important highlight detail literally as far to the right as possible without clipping. This guarantees that shadow detail is also recorded as far to the right (and away from noise) as possible.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.



--
Randy

 

[DNBush]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

You will find that optimally exposed Fuji RAW files have plenty of available DR for even quite extreme DR situations.

Do you mean that there's enough DR such that dropping the EV wouldn't necessarily be needed? That, I could just drop highlights and lift shadows on the original RAW file (the one that accompanied the SOOC JPEG.

[Edit] - I just tried to reproduce that look of the second one by taking the RAW file from the SOOC JPEG and playing with highlights and shadows and no, I can't get close to that look.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file. This is something you really want to avoid, you can recover dark shadows, but not blown highlights.

You will find that optimally exposed Fuji RAW files have plenty of available DR for even quite extreme DR situations.

Do you mean that there's enough DR such that dropping the EV wouldn't necessarily be needed? That, I could just drop highlights and lift shadows on the original RAW file (the one that accompanied the SOOC JPEG.

There's enough DR if the highlights are recorded just below clipping, but any clipped highlights are gone for good.

[Edit] - I just tried to reproduce that look of the second one by taking the RAW file from the SOOC JPEG and playing with highlights and shadows and no, I can't get close to that look.

What look? the completely blown out sky in the SOOC jpeg look? is that the goal? An optimally exposed RAW file can be transformed into pretty much anything, but a clipped one like you have here is always going to be compromised. If you want a different look in your sky, the processing (in-camera or out) needs to change, but blowing important highlight detail is always going to be a hindrance is achieving any desired look.

 

[DNBush]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

This is something you really want to avoid, you can recover dark shadows, but not blown highlights.

You will find that optimally exposed Fuji RAW files have plenty of available DR for even quite extreme DR situations.

Do you mean that there's enough DR such that dropping the EV wouldn't necessarily be needed? That, I could just drop highlights and lift shadows on the original RAW file (the one that accompanied the SOOC JPEG.

There's enough DR if the highlights are recorded just below clipping, but any clipped highlights are gone for good.

[Edit] - I just tried to reproduce that look of the second one by taking the RAW file from the SOOC JPEG and playing with highlights and shadows and no, I can't get close to that look.

What look? the completely blown out sky in the SOOC jpeg look? is that the goal? An optimally exposed RAW file can be transformed into pretty much anything, but a clipped one like you have here is always going to be compromised. If you want a different look in your sky, the processing (in-camera or out) needs to change, but blowing important highlight detail is always going to be a hindrance is achieving any desired look.

The look I'm referring to is not the SOOC JPEG which I agree, the sky is too bright (blown). The processed RAW file (taken with a -1.3 EV) has the sky look that I like.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

At -1.3 EV I wouldn't expect the RAW to be blown (or the jpeg either, for that matter), but both examples are blown here. Was this shot with Multi metering at DR100? Can you share the RAW?

This is something you really want to avoid, you can recover dark shadows, but not blown highlights.

You will find that optimally exposed Fuji RAW files have plenty of available DR for even quite extreme DR situations.

Do you mean that there's enough DR such that dropping the EV wouldn't necessarily be needed? That, I could just drop highlights and lift shadows on the original RAW file (the one that accompanied the SOOC JPEG.

There's enough DR if the highlights are recorded just below clipping, but any clipped highlights are gone for good.

[Edit] - I just tried to reproduce that look of the second one by taking the RAW file from the SOOC JPEG and playing with highlights and shadows and no, I can't get close to that look.

What look? the completely blown out sky in the SOOC jpeg look? is that the goal? An optimally exposed RAW file can be transformed into pretty much anything, but a clipped one like you have here is always going to be compromised. If you want a different look in your sky, the processing (in-camera or out) needs to change, but blowing important highlight detail is always going to be a hindrance is achieving any desired look.

The look I'm referring to is not the SOOC JPEG which I agree, the sky is too bright (blown). The processed RAW file (taken with a -1.3 EV) has the sky look that I like.

The cloud detail is very clearly blown (and is obvious looking at its histogram). The shadows aren't going full black either.




The histogram from the processed RAW above

 

[GreatOceanSoftware]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Well yeah, you are. The idea is to always expose the brightest important highlight detail literally as far to the right as possible without clipping. This guarantees that shadow detail is also recorded as far to the right (and away from noise) as possible.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.



--
Randy

Yeah, I know what I’m supposed to do, it’s the terminology that screams “over exposure is desirable” to me.

--
Randy

 

[Morris0]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Well yeah, you are. The idea is to always expose the brightest important highlight detail literally as far to the right as possible without clipping. This guarantees that shadow detail is also recorded as far to the right (and away from noise) as possible.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.

Yeah, I know what I’m supposed to do, it’s the terminology that screams “over exposure is desirable” to me.

"Over exposure" is from the film days.

Exposure: Allowing light to strike a light sensitive plate.

Over: too much

Putting them together don't make sense. This is where your problem is coming from. With digital you need to think about your goal included processing. If you are shooting JPEG right out of the camera then you don't what ETTR. If you are shooting RAW you should be exposing with post processing in you mind. If conditions are correct, you can expose for out of the camera results. If there is something very bright in the seen that would cause the dark areas to louse detail and/or to produce an over all gray image, then ETTR.

Morris

 

[GreatOceanSoftware]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Well yeah, you are. The idea is to always expose the brightest important highlight detail literally as far to the right as possible without clipping. This guarantees that shadow detail is also recorded as far to the right (and away from noise) as possible.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.

Yeah, I know what I’m supposed to do, it’s the terminology that screams “over exposure is desirable” to me.

"Over exposure" is from the film days.

Exposure: Allowing light to strike a light sensitive plate.

Over: too much

Putting them together don't make sense. This is where your problem is coming from. With digital you need to think about your goal included processing. If you are shooting JPEG right out of the camera then you don't what ETTR. If you are shooting RAW you should be exposing with post processing in you mind. If conditions are correct, you can expose for out of the camera results. If there is something very bright in the seen that would cause the dark areas to louse detail and/or to produce an over all gray image, then ETTR.

Morris

If it helps, I think the better phrase is “expose FOR the right.” It’s just me.

--
Randy

 

[Morris0]

Prior to moving to Fujifilm I used Olympus/OMDS cameras. A technique I learned from a professional was great for dealing with high DR scenes.

I would have the AEL/AFL button configured to switch to spot metering and lock the exposure. I would meter that way near a highlight, recompose, and then take the shot.

This preserved the highlights (bright sky or, for instance, stained glass windows in a church) and allowed me the ability to lift the shadows in the RAW file later. Keeping ISO low this method didn't introduce much if any noise. Very successful technique.

So, with the X-T5 is such a thing possible? That is, is there a way to set a custom button to toggle spot metering on/off and lock exposure?

I can't seem to find any way to do so, so I'm asking the experts here.

You can set PHOTOMETRY to a custom button which allows you to scroll through and select from the various metering options but, honestly, I’m not sure why you’d want to use Spot metering with a mirrorless camera that has an exposure preview and exposure compensation (you will probably also want to select the INTERLOCK SPOT AE & FOCUS AREA option if you do). The highlight warning blinkies act like a screen-wide spot meter for highlight detail). Set the important highlights just below blinking and you’re done. Spot metering is for isolated mid tones and isn’t especially useful for setting optimal exposure (IMO). The blinkies with Multi or Center Weighted metering not only show you that there will be highlight clipping, but is also shows precisely where in the frame that clipping will potentially occur. Beyond easy to set an optimal exposure in pretty much any situation (again, IMO).

Erik said something subtle: “Set the IMPORTANT highlights just below blinking…” I agree with this as zeroing out all blinkies is usually under exposure, unless that’s what you intend, which I often do. I have my camera set up as he describes and have shot this way for years. It doesn’t take too long before you develop intuition to go along with the blinkies and almost all shots turn out as intended.

The only time I use spot metering anymore is shooting sunsets with telephoto lenses to meter precisely on the sun. It results in a silhouette, which I love.

This is called Expose To The Right (ETTR). It dose not matter what metering method you use and it can even be done in manual exposure mode. I describe the method in Popular Photography magazine's June 2009 issue where I stated you want to be one click under the blinking highlight warning.

Morris

Yes, you can accomplish the same exposure in several ways. But I never liked the ETTR terminology because it sounds like you’re trying (or supposed) to move the histogram peak to the right.

Well yeah, you are. The idea is to always expose the brightest important highlight detail literally as far to the right as possible without clipping. This guarantees that shadow detail is also recorded as far to the right (and away from noise) as possible.

In the case of silhouette sunsets, spot metering is almost required, because the maximum number of EC stops on most cameras 3 or 5, which usually isn’t enough. That or just shoot in manual. But getting in and out of manual mode on my XT5, for example, usually takes more dial changes than just changing the meter mode. Or at least it used to be before Fujifilm took away the metering switch after the XT3. I really hope the XT6 will bring back that switch and punt the movie mode to the drive dial or menu.

Yeah, I know what I’m supposed to do, it’s the terminology that screams “over exposure is desirable” to me.

"Over exposure" is from the film days.

Exposure: Allowing light to strike a light sensitive plate.

Over: too much

Putting them together don't make sense. This is where your problem is coming from. With digital you need to think about your goal included processing. If you are shooting JPEG right out of the camera then you don't what ETTR. If you are shooting RAW you should be exposing with post processing in you mind. If conditions are correct, you can expose for out of the camera results. If there is something very bright in the seen that would cause the dark areas to louse detail and/or to produce an over all gray image, then ETTR.

Morris

If it helps, I think the better phrase is “expose FOR the right.” It’s just me.

Yes, the name is not the best. I called it "Expose on click under blink warning."

Morris

 

[jhorse]

Yes, the name is not the best. I called it "Expose on click under blink warning."

Morris

I like that description/approach.

 

[Morris0]

If it helps, I think the better phrase is “expose FOR the right.” It’s just me.

Yes, the name is not the best. I called it "Expose one click under the blink warning."

Morris

 

[DNBush]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

At -1.3 EV I wouldn't expect the RAW to be blown (or the jpeg either, for that matter), but both examples are blown here. Was this shot with Multi metering at DR100? Can you share the RAW?

Here's the RAW file...

RAW file

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

At -1.3 EV I wouldn't expect the RAW to be blown (or the jpeg either, for that matter), but both examples are blown here. Was this shot with Multi metering at DR100? Can you share the RAW?

Here's the RAW file...

RAW file

The RAW file is definitely blown...


Actual RAW histogram via RawDigger - significantly blown green channel, red and blue channels just slightly clipped (not too bad in this situation).


Your blinkies would have clearly shown the clipped areas here (this is a very high DR scene indeed). A bit more negative EC and you would have been fine.

The blown highlight detail is undesirable but, in the case of blown white clouds, there is just enough detail remaining in the not so blown red and blue channels to recover enough original texture. A similar situation with blown skin would not be so easy to fix. You definitely don't want to overexpose like this if you want decent looking SOOC jpegs. Your lens is nice and sharp in any case


Processed RAW via Lightroom with recovered highlights

 

[DNBush]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

At -1.3 EV I wouldn't expect the RAW to be blown (or the jpeg either, for that matter), but both examples are blown here. Was this shot with Multi metering at DR100? Can you share the RAW?

Here's the RAW file...

RAW file

The RAW file is definitely blown...


Actual RAW histogram via RawDigger - significantly blown green channel, red and blue channels just slightly clipped (not too bad in this situation).


Your blinkies would have clearly shown the clipped areas here (this is a very high DR scene indeed). A bit more negative EC and you would have been fine.

The blown highlight detail is undesirable but, in the case of blown white clouds, there is just enough detail remaining in the not so blown red and blue channels to recover enough original texture. A similar situation with blown skin would not be so easy to fix. You definitely don't want to overexpose like this if you want decent looking SOOC jpegs. Your lens is nice and sharp in any case


Processed RAW via Lightroom with recovered highlights

Well, you certainly got more out of that RAW file than I did. I like it. First of all, thank you for taking the time to work with me on this.

Now, given a scene like that, would you suggest more than -1.3 EV to better preserve the highlights? I've likely got similar conditions (sky) coming this afternoon so I'd like to practice some more.

Also, I don't have Lightroom but do have and use Capture One. Would you share with me the settings that you used to produce that JPEG? I'd like to see how I could duplicate them in C1.

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

First was taken with no EC. Second with EC -1.3 and shadows/blacks lifted a bit. Obviously more tweaking could be done but this shows me that the EC adjustment should be sufficient for what I want to achieve...

Were these jpegs? Did you use the highlight blinkies to set the exposure? If you did, those cloud highlights shouldn't be blown like they appear to be here.

The first one was a SOOC JPEG. The second one was processed from the RAW file and exported to JPEG.
I didn't use the blinkies. I just set the EV based on what looked good to me with regards to the sky. I like the blues to come out and the contrast with the white clouds. That's a look I strive for in my images that have clouds and sky.

If you want an optimally exposed RAW file, you pay attention to the blinkies and/or the far right edge of the luminance (white) histogram. Here, you've irretrievably blown out the highlights in both the jpeg and the RAW file.

So you think that the sky in the processed RAW file still has blown out highlights? To my eye, the sky looks great and the white (bright) clouds are also a desirable look.

At -1.3 EV I wouldn't expect the RAW to be blown (or the jpeg either, for that matter), but both examples are blown here. Was this shot with Multi metering at DR100? Can you share the RAW?

Here's the RAW file...

RAW file

The RAW file is definitely blown...


Actual RAW histogram via RawDigger - significantly blown green channel, red and blue channels just slightly clipped (not too bad in this situation).


Your blinkies would have clearly shown the clipped areas here (this is a very high DR scene indeed). A bit more negative EC and you would have been fine.

The blown highlight detail is undesirable but, in the case of blown white clouds, there is just enough detail remaining in the not so blown red and blue channels to recover enough original texture. A similar situation with blown skin would not be so easy to fix. You definitely don't want to overexpose like this if you want decent looking SOOC jpegs. Your lens is nice and sharp in any case


Processed RAW via Lightroom with recovered highlights

Well, you certainly got more out of that RAW file than I did. I like it. First of all, thank you for taking the time to work with me on this.

You're welcome.

Now, given a scene like that, would you suggest more than -1.3 EV to better preserve the highlights? I've likely got similar conditions (sky) coming this afternoon so I'd like to practice some more.

I would suggest setting the EC so that the brightest important highlights are just below blinking whatever the scene may be (you probably want to let direct white light sources and specular reflections clip - you want them to render as pure white). Sometimes there will be positive EC required, sometimes negative EC - Note: your exposure preview (including the blinkies) is only valid at +/- 3 stops of EC unless the AE is locked (typically with a half-press of the shutter button). The top dial gives you +/- 3 stops of EC but, in C mode, you get +/- 5 stops on the front dial. Using Center Weighted metering instead of Multi will usually result in a more positive EC setting, but less of a swing between different scenes (and almost never requires more than +/- 3 stops. After many years of using Multi, I've been using CW lately and am liking it a lot (though Multi generally gets it right more often with zero EC fine-tuning). Frankly, needing more than +/- 3 stops of EC is very rare with either metering mode.


This one was extreme and required -4 stops of EC (Multi)

Also, I don't have Lightroom but do have and use Capture One. Would you share with me the settings that you used to produce that JPEG? I'd like to see how I could duplicate them in C1.

The tools involved operate very differently between the two editors, but I'd try pulling back on the exposure slider until you've got all the highlight detail there is just clear of the right histogram limit to start, and then selectively bring everything else up as needed (reducing contrast in the dark areas will go a long way towards opening up the deep shadow detail without making it look to 'crunchy"). With most scenes, and certainly this one, I wouldn't want to bury any worthwhile shadow detail below pure black, but I would want the darkest shadows at pure black. You want full black to full white here, but just. In the case of not quite completely blown highlights like you have here, you will likely have to apply some local enhancement to try and coax out some natural looking detail in the compromised areas - best to be subtle about it.

 

[DNBush]

The tools involved operate very differently between the two editors, but I'd try pulling back on the exposure slider until you've got all the highlight detail there is just clear of the right histogram limit to start, and then selectively bring everything else up as needed (reducing contrast in the dark areas will go a long way towards opening up the deep shadow detail without making it look to 'crunchy"). With most scenes, and certainly this one, I wouldn't want to bury any worthwhile shadow detail below pure black, but I would want the darkest shadows at pure black. You want full black to full white here, but just. In the case of not quite completely blown highlights like you have here, you will likely have to apply some local enhancement to try and coax out some natural looking detail in the compromised areas - best to be subtle about it.

Quick question...

With regards to working with the RAW file in post, from what I've seen so far from this camera, I do believe that in most cases SOOC JPEGs will look great and I will likely be happy with them. However I will know, especially in the case of high DR scenes like this (thanks to the blinkies) that some work might be needed. So, perhaps I should not worry too much about fiddling with EC when shooting and just get the shot and then deal with it in post.

Your starting comment about pulling back on the exposure slider got me thinking this. What do you say?

 

[Erik Baumgartner]

The tools involved operate very differently between the two editors, but I'd try pulling back on the exposure slider until you've got all the highlight detail there is just clear of the right histogram limit to start, and then selectively bring everything else up as needed (reducing contrast in the dark areas will go a long way towards opening up the deep shadow detail without making it look to 'crunchy"). With most scenes, and certainly this one, I wouldn't want to bury any worthwhile shadow detail below pure black, but I would want the darkest shadows at pure black. You want full black to full white here, but just. In the case of not quite completely blown highlights like you have here, you will likely have to apply some local enhancement to try and coax out some natural looking detail in the compromised areas - best to be subtle about it.

Quick question...

With regards to working with the RAW file in post, from what I've seen so far from this camera, I do believe that in most cases SOOC JPEGs will look great and I will likely be happy with them. However I will know, especially in the case of high DR scenes like this (thanks to the blinkies) that some work might be needed. So, perhaps I should not worry too much about fiddling with EC when shooting and just get the shot and then deal with it in post.

The whole point of getting the exposure right (fiddling with the EC) is so you have the best possible images - not too dark and/or noisy, and with no blown important highlight detail …every time, and that goes for both for jpegs and RAW files. Yes, there’s a lot that can be “fixed” in post, but if the exposure is optimal in the first place, the result will be better and you’ll have a much easier time getting it there. In a perfect world, the camera would always get the metering right, but that’s just not reality (as your example above aptly demonstrates). If the camera can’t reliably nail the exposure (nor can it read your mind about what you want), something needs to be done when the camera chooses the wrong exposure - and that something is exposure compensation. If you have EC assigned to the front dial this couldn’t be much easier - with the highlight warning blinkies enabled, turn the dial until the brightest important highlight detail just blinks, turn it back until it doesn’t, click, done …takes about a second. In most situations, once you’ve done that, very little (if any) tweaking should be required in the same light - especially with Center Weighted metering. This will work well for both DR100 jpegs and RAW files. If the scene is very dynamic with very important highlight detail and you want to play it safe, back off a couple clicks below blinking with the EC (each click is 1/3 of a stop). If you’re going for jpegs, you can, with Natural Live View off, fine-tune the image lightness in your EVF, but just below blinking will generally work well there too.

There are the DR modes to reckon with too, but if you’re willing to tweak the RAW files (or DR100 jpegs that come out a bit dark) in very high DR situations, you should be getting great results every time. If you’re looking to tweak your jpegs, I highly recommend shooting “FINE” rather than “Normal” jpegs.

Your starting comment about pulling back on the exposure slider got me thinking this. What do you say?

Pulling back the “exposure” slider will bring all the recorded highlight information into play, but if important detail was clipped, you’re still screwed. If your exposure was too low and you have to drag the “exposure” slider to the right, you’ll be dragging all the noise at the left with it and you’re also screwed, but not usually as much - you can really fix blown highlights, but you can sometimes clean up the noise. Underexposure is generally preferable to overexposure - in good light and a scene with “normal” dynamic range, you can be underexposed quite a bit and not really notice the noise much, but that won’t always be the case in high DR scenes in worse light. You generally want to always maximize exposure for the best results.

 

[DNBush]

The tools involved operate very differently between the two editors, but I'd try pulling back on the exposure slider until you've got all the highlight detail there is just clear of the right histogram limit to start, and then selectively bring everything else up as needed (reducing contrast in the dark areas will go a long way towards opening up the deep shadow detail without making it look to 'crunchy"). With most scenes, and certainly this one, I wouldn't want to bury any worthwhile shadow detail below pure black, but I would want the darkest shadows at pure black. You want full black to full white here, but just. In the case of not quite completely blown highlights like you have here, you will likely have to apply some local enhancement to try and coax out some natural looking detail in the compromised areas - best to be subtle about it.

Quick question...

With regards to working with the RAW file in post, from what I've seen so far from this camera, I do believe that in most cases SOOC JPEGs will look great and I will likely be happy with them. However I will know, especially in the case of high DR scenes like this (thanks to the blinkies) that some work might be needed. So, perhaps I should not worry too much about fiddling with EC when shooting and just get the shot and then deal with it in post.

The whole point of getting the exposure right (fiddling with the EC) is so you have the best possible images - not too dark and/or noisy, and with no blown important highlight detail …every time, and that goes for both for jpegs and RAW files. Yes, there’s a lot that can be “fixed” in post, but if the exposure is optimal in the first place, the result will be better and you’ll have a much easier time getting it there. In a perfect world, the camera would always get the metering right, but that’s just not reality (as your example above aptly demonstrates). If the camera can’t reliably nail the exposure (nor can it read your mind about what you want), something needs to be done when the camera chooses the wrong exposure - and that something is exposure compensation. If you have EC assigned to the front dial this couldn’t be much easier - with the highlight warning blinkies enabled, turn the dial until the brightest important highlight detail just blinks, turn it back until it doesn’t, click, done …takes about a second. In most situations, once you’ve done that, very little (if any) tweaking should be required in the same light - especially with Center Weighted metering. This will work well for both DR100 jpegs and RAW files. If the scene is very dynamic with very important highlight detail and you want to play it safe, back off a couple clicks below blinking with the EC (each click is 1/3 of a stop). If you’re going for jpegs, you can, with Natural Live View off, fine-tune the image lightness in your EVF, but just below blinking will generally work well there too.

There are the DR modes to reckon with too, but if you’re willing to tweak the RAW files (or DR100 jpegs that come out a bit dark) in very high DR situations, you should be getting great results every time. If you’re looking to tweak your jpegs, I highly recommend shooting “FINE” rather than “Normal” jpegs.

Your starting comment about pulling back on the exposure slider got me thinking this. What do you say?

Pulling back the “exposure” slider will bring all the recorded highlight information into play, but if important detail was clipped, you’re still screwed. If your exposure was too low and you have to drag the “exposure” slider to the right, you’ll be dragging all the noise at the left with it and you’re also screwed, but not usually as much - you can really fix blown highlights, but you can sometimes clean up the noise. Underexposure is generally preferable to overexposure - in good light and a scene with “normal” dynamic range, you can be underexposed quite a bit and not really notice the noise much, but that won’t always be the case in high DR scenes in worse light. You generally want to always maximize exposure for the best results.

I get what you're saying. OK. I need to practice. Again, thank you so much.