Why Olympus E-M1 II doesn't have such impressive sequence speed

[Tommi K1]

Presentation at photokina.

Didn't you see it?

 

[Tommi K1]

Are you so easily bored from truth?

Olympus cameras to this dates had been able for 30fps with C-AF... So why this 60fps with locked AF is so special?

 

[Tommi K1]

Nightmare you say?

People here seems to have difficulties to make a decision for a simple things...

 

[TN Args]

We have all heard it, 18 FPS with C-AF and even with tracking, and then 60 FPS with AF/AE locked.

More often people forget that these values are with electronical shutter, having a rolling shutter limitation. And while Olympus says that it ain't problem for "distant animals", It will be problem for BIF or human - regardless of the distance - when there is enough motion on sensor area.

Perhaps you overstate your case on how limiting this really is. Olympus also state that this camera has greatly reduced rolling shutter compared to previous models.... like 50% reduced.

If you don't want rolling shutter problem, then what? You use mechanical shutter, of course!

OR, you use a camera that exhibits less rolling shutter than you thought! Cue company theme song....

...And to see the real professional photographer camera, it is required to wait E-M2.

So, every real professional today already uses cameras shooting over 10 fps mechanical with AF? Would you like to phone a friend before answering? Because you just cut the field down to the 1DXii with 14 fps for $6000 and the humble D5 with 12 fps for $6500 (barely any faster than E-M1ii), and you eliminated the 7Dii and D500. I admit the D4S aced your test with.... 11 fps.... if you can even tell the difference, but I wasn't going to count it because it is effectively the same speed as the speed you have declared manifestly inadequate for 'real' pros. D4S pros please note your new amateur status.

The Olympus design team have, its is claimed, reduced rolling shutter with this new camera to the extent where a working pro will have about a 50/50 need for electronic vs mechanical shutter with high speed work. Which is a big change from the past. And which also legitimises the e-shutter very significantly. Olympus are saying that e-shutter can be the default high-speed mode now, and the pro shooter can make the judgement calls for when to select mechanical shutter dictated by specific conditions.

 

[Tommi K1]

I use E-M1 for next to top Canon and Nikon spirits cameras without any shame of results, but I am as well able get shots they can't because tilt screen, that side articulating screen can't offer and is like a fixed screen.

If 30-40% shots becomes impossible to get, then it means easily to 4000-6000€ losses per month, but more seriously for what can I do better than next guy at event.

Being professional didn't mean you do what you like, it means you get the things done regardless what you like. And if you can't do what is needed...

Yesterday I posted a list of small improvements that are not mentioned, as it is just sequence speed and sensor. And now just pointing the limitations (currently, can change future with firmware) and people attack personally because they can't accept that Olympus be model ain't so good as is wanted to be.

Day before I even recommended to wait this come out for sports person, because he didn't have any needs for LCD than chimping shots.

Here it seems to be impossible for many that someone can personally have dislike for product but recommend it to others for their needs.

And if you do clarify the limitations, you get attacked like it shouldn't be mentioned and basing it to "those who get it do know all about it!" attitude.

Yes, Olympus HR mode is great, giving amazing 80 Mpix true color now noise files. But only from fairly static subjects when taken on solid platform.

Mentioning that is like a crime.

 

[TN Args]

Olympus cameras to this dates had been able for 30fps with C-AF... So why this 60fps with locked AF is so special?

Are you referring to something other than the E-M1? I thought that the Nov 2015 firmware update increased C-AF burst from 6.5 fps to 9 fps.

 

[Tommi K1]

We have all heard it, 18 FPS with C-AF and even with tracking, and then 60 FPS with AF/AE locked.

More often people forget that these values are with electronical shutter, having a rolling shutter limitation. And while Olympus says that it ain't problem for "distant animals", It will be problem for BIF or human - regardless of the distance - when there is enough motion on sensor area.

Perhaps you overstate your case on how limiting this really is. Olympus also state that this camera has greatly reduced rolling shutter compared to previous models.... like 50% reduced.

They is then nothing as improvements.

Even a static bird on branch and taken 11fps with IBIS handheld firmly result jello effect. Now take a slightly moving target like a person walking slowly and everything bends. 50% improvement is nothing then.

If you don't want rolling shutter problem, then what? You use mechanical shutter, of course!

OR, you use a camera that exhibits less rolling shutter than you thought! Cue company theme song....

That is alternative but better then just avoid m4/3.

...And to see the real professional photographer camera, it is required to wait E-M2.

So, every real professional today already uses cameras shooting over 10 fps mechanical with AF? Would you like to phone a friend before answering? Because you just cut the field down to the 1DXii with 14 fps for $6000 and the humble D5 with 12 fps for $6500 (barely any faster than E-M1ii), and you eliminated the 7Dii and D500.

Don't do false assumptions. Olympus marketed the camera with 18fps and 60fps (higher = better in marketing) and same thing is almost daily here with equivalence polices about 2 stops....

But when someone clarifies that is is 10fps with C-AF and 8.5fps with anti-shock... He is the bad person!

I admit the D4S aced your test with.... 11 fps.... if you can even tell the difference, but I wasn't going to count it because it is effectively the same speed as the speed you have declared manifestly inadequate for 'real' pros. D4S pros please note your new amateur status.

The Olympus design team have, its is claimed, reduced rolling shutter with this new camera to the extent where a working pro will have about a 50/50 need for electronic vs mechanical shutter with high speed work. Which is a big change from the past. And which also legitimises the e-shutter very significantly. Olympus are saying that e-shutter can be the default high-speed mode now, and the pro shooter can make the judgement calls for when to select mechanical shutter dictated by specific conditions.

In fast situations you don't have much time to make such call. You keep going what you have there, so basically now starting with 8.5 or 10 fps at max unless the electronic read speed is so good that you can capture a golfer swinging a club without jello or batter to hit ball with baseball bat....

Sure my set allows to switch when a person slides to base directly towards camera, but continually switching between these is just waiting accident to happen, wrong mode at critical moment.

And as at above one said that sports shooters use only 4-6 or about speed, why we hear all the time about higher is better then? Because you don'tshoot 10 second straight but take few shots in bursts and getting 4-6 frames from moment is enough when it if taken in 200-300ms period.

5D MK IV is claimed to be bad for sports because so slow sequence speed, but not it is more than enough?

 

[Guy Parsons]

Nightmare you say?

People here seems to have difficulties to make a decision for a simple things...

Well maybe not nightmare, but just a plain pain in the butt.

Regards.... Guy

 

[Tommi K1]

Olympus cameras to this dates had been able for 30fps with C-AF... So why this 60fps with locked AF is so special?

Are you referring to something other than the E-M1? I thought that the Nov 2015 firmware update increased C-AF burst from 6.5 fps to 9 fps.

Video :-D

I didn't mention limitations like not full resolution, so only 1080p.

I didn't mention C-AF speed as it is slow for fast action.

And I didn't mention about file format...

Just mentioned the frame rate and autofocus mode...

Just like Olympus did with their presentation, eagle flying and catching fish, owl flying toward, deer running parallel, horse rider coming towards etc and presenting all with a 18fps or 60fps.

If there rolling shutter is only 50% less, then it is impossible to catch those moments with electronical shutter.

Sensor readout is now 1/50 with electronical shutter, while E-M1 has sensor readout 1/13 and E-M5 II 1/20, so.... Is it good?

 

[TN Args]

I use E-M1 for next to top Canon and Nikon spirits cameras without any shame of results, but I am as well able get shots they can't because tilt screen, that side articulating screen can't offer and is like a fixed screen.

If 30-40% shots becomes impossible to get, then it means easily to 4000-6000€ losses per month, but more seriously for what can I do better than next guy at event.

Being professional didn't mean you do what you like, it means you get the things done regardless what you like. And if you can't do what is needed...

Yesterday I posted a list of small improvements that are not mentioned, as it is just sequence speed and sensor. And now just pointing the limitations (currently, can change future with firmware) and people attack personally because they can't accept that Olympus be model ain't so good as is wanted to be.

Day before I even recommended to wait this come out for sports person, because he didn't have any needs for LCD than chimping shots.

Here it seems to be impossible for many that someone can personally have dislike for product but recommend it to others for their needs.

And if you do clarify the limitations, you get attacked like it shouldn't be mentioned and basing it to "those who get it do know all about it!" attitude.

Yes, Olympus HR mode is great, giving amazing 80 Mpix true color now noise files. But only from fairly static subjects when taken on solid platform.

Mentioning that is like a crime.

I don't know what others here have said about your critique, but I don't mind a critique if it is well intentioned. What you have said though is "not good enough, wait for next model, they have lied and deceived readers with their misinformation or marketing message emphasis". Well hang on. Oly have done no such thing. A well-intentioned critique might have said, "The new camera has burst speeds with AF and AE as good as any action camera available under $5,000, which is amazing and to their credit especially with IBIS running. Add to that even higher AF+AE speeds with e-shutter, for those occasions when e-shutter will do, and the camera is setting new benchmarks. A little icing on the cake is up to 60 fps of full-size raw 20MP files with fixed AF+AE for those relatively few occasions when AF can be fixed on one point -- and the camera is out there all by itself in that respect. Kudos. However, I think Olympus marketing puts too much primacy on the mention of 60 fps. I would rather see them start with the 10, then the 18, then the 60, in accordance with decreasing utility."

That's how I might have worded your critique. And in doing so, I would be demanding higher marketing integrity of Oly than most of the competition exhibits.

cheers

 

[CharlesB58]

We have all heard it, 18 FPS with C-AF and even with tracking, and then 60 FPS with AF/AE locked.

More often people forget that these values are with electronical shutter, having a rolling shutter limitation. And while Olympus says that it ain't problem for "distant animals", It will be problem for BIF or human - regardless of the distance - when there is enough motion on sensor area.

If you don't want rolling shutter problem, then what? You use mechanical shutter, of course! But here comes again the fancy marketing team....

Mechanical shutter gives you 15 frames sequential shooting speed, AF/AE locked.... Wait, what? Wasn't this camera to be to compete best DSLR?

So what is the fastest possible sequential shooting with C-AF or C-AF + Tracking? 10 FPS.... That is like.... about 1 FPS improvement over E-M1 with C-AF (tracking still limited to 6.5 FPS).

This truly is E-M1 Mark two, and to see real improvements, we need to wait E-M2.

This is just a hybrid camera for videographers, like combining E-M5 II and E-M1 to one body with slight buffing in electronical shutter.

After reading your vaious nitpicks and swings from praise to pans, I'm left with the strong impression that A-you know far less about photography than you think you do; B- you want to blame the camera for what are likely your own lack of ability and C- you like to complain just to get attention perhaps.

Between your overblown tirades about FAS (I've used FAS and tilt, and there are advantages and limitations to both, neither of which should be deal breakers to 95% of those who knows how to hold a camera properly) and your roliing shutter fixation, I get the feeling you think that others don't know things you feel are important. We do: we just don't go on about them.

BTW, your list of seldom mentioned features? Most of them have been in the EM1 for some time.

And to see the real professional photographer camera, it is required to wait E-M2.

"Real professional". Classic term from those who don't know what that actually means.

 

[TN Args]

Olympus cameras to this dates had been able for 30fps with C-AF... So why this 60fps with locked AF is so special?

Are you referring to something other than the E-M1? I thought that the Nov 2015 firmware update increased C-AF burst from 6.5 fps to 9 fps.

Video :-D

I didn't mention limitations like not full resolution, so only 1080p.

Strange that you didn't mention that until challenged. This is starting to look sloppy and ill-intentioned.

Comparing half the speed at 1080p video and saying why is 60 fps raw so special.... you are wasting my time. Not appreciated.

I didn't mention C-AF speed as it is slow for fast action.

And I didn't mention about file format...

Just mentioned the frame rate and autofocus mode...

Just like Olympus did with their presentation, eagle flying and catching fish, owl flying toward, deer running parallel, horse rider coming towards etc and presenting all with a 18fps or 60fps.

Eagle/fish was lateral, 60 fps is a legit option.

Horse approaching would be a legit e-shutter option.

Some other cases would require mechanical shutter (in the mind of most but not all photographers). The point is the photographer takes a test burst on e-shutter and decides whether mechanical is needed, then runs with his or her choice. Simple. A new choice. A legitimate choice that opens up new possibilities. A good thing for serious photographers.

Sensor readout is now 1/50 with electronical shutter, while E-M1 has sensor readout 1/13 and E-M5 II 1/20, so.... Is it good?

Why don't you just wait and see instead of leaping into print with statements of fact about how it isn't so great. Now you are asking me if it is good? (Rhetorical question? Hope not, don't want my time wasted with rhetorical questions or sarcasm.) Assuming your question is genuine, my answer is wait and see. But that is not what you have done; you have said "real pros can forget this camera, they need the E-M2".

 

[cameron2]

Hmm, can't understand why people need to dis' a camera that has neither been launched, finalised or even properly tested yet.

If you read some of the other threads in the forum, the OP is upset that Oly put an articulated screen onto the EM1ii, so he wants it to fail miserably so that Oly will put tilting screens on their future cameras.

 

[Yxa]

We have all heard it, 18 FPS with C-AF and even with tracking, and then 60 FPS with AF/AE locked.

More often people forget that these values are with electronical shutter, having a rolling shutter limitation. And while Olympus says that it ain't problem for "distant animals", It will be problem for BIF or human - regardless of the distance - when there is enough motion on sensor area.

If you don't want rolling shutter problem, then what? You use mechanical shutter, of course! But here comes again the fancy marketing team....

Mechanical shutter gives you 15 frames sequential shooting speed, AF/AE locked.... Wait, what? Wasn't this camera to be to compete best DSLR?

So what is the fastest possible sequential shooting with C-AF or C-AF + Tracking? 10 FPS.... That is like.... about 1 FPS improvement over E-M1 with C-AF (tracking still limited to 6.5 FPS).

This truly is E-M1 Mark two, and to see real improvements, we need to wait E-M2.

This is just a hybrid camera for videographers, like combining E-M5 II and E-M1 to one body with slight buffing in electronical shutter.

And to see the real professional photographer camera, it is required to wait E-M2.

Yes the marketing department has not been clear here ,to be polite.

Since these specifications come from the Olympus website, how have they not been clear?

And that's just the speed.

Now is the question how good will the camera be in nailing focus in C-AF

 

[TN Args]

Hmm, can't understand why people need to dis' a camera that has neither been launched, finalised or even properly tested yet.

If you read some of the other threads in the forum, the OP is upset that Oly put an articulated screen onto the EM1ii, so he wants it to fail miserably so that Oly will put tilting screens on their future cameras.

That's hilarious. I hope it isn't true. :-(

 

[daddyo]

Could you post some of your professional shots, so we can see where this Mk2 would fall short? Or post a link to your professional website?

That would be very helpful in trying to understand your point for this post.

 

[String]

Coming home each day in two week period with 5000-7000 frames per day, I can say you learn truck or two to pick best 30 from day in few minutes.

I'll call you on this one.... 7000 frames a day equals 420,000 shots over 2 months. How often are you replacing shutter mechanisms?

If you can't get "the shot" at 10fps, you don't have a hope of getting at 18fps either.

 

[String]

Could you post some of your professional shots, so we can see where this Mk2 would fall short? Or post a link to your professional website?

That would be very helpful in trying to understand your point for this post.

 

[joeletx]

Could you post some of your professional shots, so we can see where this Mk2 would fall short? Or post a link to your professional website?

That would be very helpful in trying to understand your point for this post.

 

[NowHearThis]

Very well said!