Why manual mode?

Cameras and I go back several decades. I just do a lot of camera stuff automatically without even thinking about it.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding the perspective of a beginner photographer. Like just what is this fascination many beginners have with manual mode? I've seen some here that have no idea of the exposure triangle and just blindly spin dials hoping the resulting photo isn't cr@p. "Exposure meter? What's that?"

Don't get me wrong, I use manual mode when appropriate, typically for me when I use a flash. Manual mode can also aid the beginner's education when used in a systematic way.

So why does that big "M" hold such a fascination with a beginner? Did someone tell them the photos are better or something?

--
Lance H
I don't know of any beginners that are "fascinated" with manual mode. Having said that, I have been shooting for 20 years, and I use manual mode all the time. Why do you think it's a beginner thing?
Manual is fine for the experienced user such as yourself or for a beginner under structured conditions (class room, guided by a book, friend, hubby, or some other systematic way).

Often enough, we see beginners here, without guidance, randomly wandering around manual mode producing bad photos. They get frustrated, that's bad. I'm just wondering why they thought going to manual mode without any help at all was a good idea.
Some Auto modes can be very good. For anyone unfamiliar with Sony's "Intelligent/Superior Auto" Modes, our good friend Gary Fong comes to the rescue...

https://www.garyfong.com/learn/sonys-intelligent-auto-and-superior-auto-modes
 
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Cameras and I go back several decades. I just do a lot of camera stuff automatically without even thinking about it.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding the perspective of a beginner photographer. Like just what is this fascination many beginners have with manual mode? I've seen some here that have no idea of the exposure triangle and just blindly spin dials hoping the resulting photo isn't cr@p. "Exposure meter? What's that?"

Don't get me wrong, I use manual mode when appropriate, typically for me when I use a flash. Manual mode can also aid the beginner's education when used in a systematic way.

So why does that big "M" hold such a fascination with a beginner? Did someone tell them the photos are better or something?
 
My other favourite was a beginner shooting a landscape with a standard lens with an iSO 12800 and shutter speed 1/3200 sec and asking why the quality was poor.
But when the poor chaps come on here to try to get a basic understanding of the 'exposure' triangle a keyboard war sets off full of ad-hominems as the terms exposure, iso(less), RAW and other irrelevances to that beginner ensues.

This is a beginners forum and the level and quality of responses from those that could know better is more laughable at times than the basic question asked.
 
My other favourite was a beginner shooting a landscape with a standard lens with an iSO 12800 and shutter speed 1/3200 sec and asking why the quality was poor.
But when the poor chaps come on here to try to get a basic understanding of the 'exposure' triangle a keyboard war sets off full of ad-hominems as the terms exposure, iso(less), RAW and other irrelevances to that beginner ensues.

This is a beginners forum and the level and quality of responses from those that could know better is more laughable at times than the basic question asked.
Perhaps like this particular response?

I only say that so that you know what an ad hominem is like. I've scanned the thread to date, and I don't see any evidence of personal attacks, just some tongue in cheek reports of beginners' mistakes.

Generally it's been a valuable interchange of ideas.
 
My other favourite was a beginner shooting a landscape with a standard lens with an iSO 12800 and shutter speed 1/3200 sec and asking why the quality was poor.
But when the poor chaps come on here to try to get a basic understanding of the 'exposure' triangle a keyboard war sets off full of ad-hominems as the terms exposure, iso(less), RAW and other irrelevances to that beginner ensues.

This is a beginners forum and the level and quality of responses from those that could know better is more laughable at times than the basic question asked.
Perhaps like this particular response?

I only say that so that you know what an ad hominem is like. I've scanned the thread to date, and I don't see any evidence of personal attacks, just some tongue in cheek reports of beginners' mistakes.

Generally it's been a valuable interchange of ideas.
This is a beginners forum.

The example I mentioned was in the Pentax SLR forum. Where I and others gave sensible advice to that OP with no ridiculous over the top advice or insulting remarks.

You can check it out!
 
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I am pretty sure that quite a lot of beginners posting on these forums use "manual" to mean anything other than full auto, i.e. PASM. You quite often get a comment like "I want a camera that I can use in manual as my photography improves".

One problem is that, other than PASM, there is no good term to describe the next step after full auto. After all, PAS are all really auto modes and arguably so is M if you use the meter indicator in the VF to determine the correct exposure.
 
I only say that so that you know what an ad hominem is like. I've scanned the thread to date, and I don't see any evidence of personal attacks, just some tongue in cheek reports of beginners' mistakes.

Generally it's been a valuable interchange of ideas.
The example I mentioned was in the Pentax SLR forum. Where I and others gave sensible advice to that OP with no ridiculous over the top advice or insulting remarks.
Sorry, but I don't see the relevance of that other forum, neither do I see any OTT or insulting remarks here.
 
One problem is that, other than PASM, there is no good term to describe the next step after full auto. After all, PAS are all really auto modes and arguably so is M if you use the meter indicator in the VF to determine the correct exposure.
Yes, I've commented on that a number of times.

I know from personal experience that many beginners are puzzled by the multiple modes that are available on most cameras, when there's only 2½ parameters that need to be adjusted (I just demoted ISO).

I've seen a camera such as the Nikon D7100 with a mad jumble of settings ranging from random PASM selections, though scene modes and ill-informed menu choices that practically disabled the camera. The owner concerned simply would not accept that such a "good camera" would require some study before it could be used (despite knowing that I was familiar with that model).
 
Cameras and I go back several decades. I just do a lot of camera stuff automatically without even thinking about it.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding the perspective of a beginner photographer. Like just what is this fascination many beginners have with manual mode? I've seen some here that have no idea of the exposure triangle and just blindly spin dials hoping the resulting photo isn't cr@p. "Exposure meter? What's that?"

Don't get me wrong, I use manual mode when appropriate, typically for me when I use a flash. Manual mode can also aid the beginner's education when used in a systematic way.

So why does that big "M" hold such a fascination with a beginner? Did someone tell them the photos are better or something?
To answer your last question first, I suspect it's to do with M mode having an 'expert' cachet, that you can't use it unless you're an expert, so using it shows you to be an expert.

More completely, exposure management is essentially about choosing a balance of depth of field, motion blur and something else. I say 'something else' because there is not complete agreement on what it should be, but we'll deal with the other two first. As we know, DOF is controlled by the aperture, motion blur by the shutter speed. M mode has the nice simplicity of giving you a wheel for each, while the other modes generally still involving you using the two wheels (one for aperture/shutter speed and the other for exposure compensation, or one for program shift and the other for EC) - it's just that the effect of the two wheels is somewhat less direct and harder to fathom.

Now for the 'something else'. Mostly camera UIs are designed so that the 'something else' is output image brightness, that is, you are trying to balance DOF, morion blur against output image brightness, within a general playing field that you selected when you set the ISO. What setting the ISO actually does is determine the target exposure, so this comes down to selecting a combination of aperture/shutter speed that, along with the light from the subject, gives the exposure that you chose when you set the ISO.

For others (myself included) the 'something else' is image noise, given that the more exposure you have the less noisy the image. So people like me are trying to get the biggest exposure that can go with our needs for DOF and motion blur. The auto modes are not designed for this something else, they will try to control exposure according to selected ISO, not to maximise it, so M becomes the mode of choice if this is your 'something else'.
 
I am pretty sure that quite a lot of beginners posting on these forums use "manual" to mean anything other than full auto, i.e. PASM. You quite often get a comment like "I want a camera that I can use in manual as my photography improves".

One problem is that, other than PASM, there is no good term to describe the next step after full auto. After all, PAS are all really auto modes and arguably so is M if you use the meter indicator in the VF to determine the correct exposure.
What do you mean by 'correct exposure'?
 
This is a beginners forum.

The example I mentioned was in the Pentax SLR forum. Where I and others gave sensible advice to that OP with no ridiculous over the top advice or insulting remarks.

You can check it out!
Link, please?
 
My other favourite was a beginner shooting a landscape with a standard lens with an iSO 12800 and shutter speed 1/3200 sec and asking why the quality was poor.
But when the poor chaps come on here to try to get a basic understanding of the 'exposure' triangle a keyboard war sets off full of ad-hominems as the terms exposure, iso(less), RAW and other irrelevances to that beginner ensues.
That's because the 'exposure triangle' is controversial. No use pretending that it isn't, beginners or no beginners.

If one is of the mind that the 'triangle' is completely unhelpful, and worse, leads to fundamental misunderstandings of what exposure is and how to manage it, on would feel that one has some kind of pedagogic duty to the 'beginner' not to let it go without at least some discussion.

--

Bob.
DARK IN HERE, ISN'T IT?
 
Cameras and I go back several decades. I just do a lot of camera stuff automatically without even thinking about it.

Sometimes I have a hard time understanding the perspective of a beginner photographer. Like just what is this fascination many beginners have with manual mode? I've seen some here that have no idea of the exposure triangle and just blindly spin dials hoping the resulting photo isn't cr@p. "Exposure meter? What's that?"

Don't get me wrong, I use manual mode when appropriate, typically for me when I use a flash. Manual mode can also aid the beginner's education when used in a systematic way.

So why does that big "M" hold such a fascination with a beginner? Did someone tell them the photos are better or something?
 
I am pretty sure that quite a lot of beginners posting on these forums use "manual" to mean anything other than full auto, i.e. PASM. You quite often get a comment like "I want a camera that I can use in manual as my photography improves".

One problem is that, other than PASM, there is no good term to describe the next step after full auto. After all, PAS are all really auto modes and arguably so is M if you use the meter indicator in the VF to determine the correct exposure.
What do you mean by 'correct exposure'?
I should have omitted "correct". A discussion on "correct exposure" would take at least 100 posts. :-D

--
Chris R
 
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See it all the time as I'm a member of an "amateur photography" group on FB, to the point where members suggest to absolute beginners to always shoot in manual as that's where you will get the best shots...mind you some muppets even suggest to stay in manual focus to have full control of the scene.

Brought it up several times after seeing absolutely botched shots and get shut down by more senior members :-|
 
I am pretty sure that quite a lot of beginners posting on these forums use "manual" to mean anything other than full auto, i.e. PASM. You quite often get a comment like "I want a camera that I can use in manual as my photography improves".

One problem is that, other than PASM, there is no good term to describe the next step after full auto. After all, PAS are all really auto modes and arguably so is M if you use the meter indicator in the VF to determine the correct exposure.
What do you mean by 'correct exposure'?
I should have omitted "correct". A discussion on "correct exposure" would take at least 100 posts. :-D
Indeed. A better term for centring the meter is maybe 'normal exposure' , in that it is the expected exposure for your selected ISO.
 
This is a beginners forum.

The example I mentioned was in the Pentax SLR forum. Where I and others gave sensible advice to that OP with no ridiculous over the top advice or insulting remarks.

You can check it out!
Link, please?

--
Albert
(The one in France)
Every photograph is an abstraction from reality.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4025095
That "Query" is an obvious hoax. All the parameters maxed out? LOL.

Here's the clincher:

I usually shoot RAW.
 
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Some cameras still show light meter reading when using manual mode. Aperture mode is good for automatic shutter speed change to match the meter reading, if you don't have time to spin the dial in manual mode.

Manual mode can maximize camera's image quality, if you have time to tweak the settings. I usually try different shutter speeds until important highlights don't overexpose. Review image can show histograms for each color channel and show blinkies on overexposed areas. This way I know when I have a good exposure. However, many cameras show only JPEG histograms and there is more room in RAW version, so I use UniWB solution which makes photos greenish, but show quite accurate RAW histograms. Now it is pretty rare that I have overexposed something I don't want to overexpose.
 

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