why doesn't 5DmarkII have 50D's 9 cross AF sensor?

[Erik Magnuson]

Geez, all the time I talk here about the peripheral points. I'm not
that interested in tracking,

Just making sure. On paper the 1DsII will be little, if any, better for that type of work.

About $4k at KEH.

That isn't exactly a spare change for me, you know...

That kind of bounds how important this really is to you. One day Canon may make the camera you want at the price you are willing to pay -- although you might have to shoot sRAW to limit the filesize.

I know all of that. But still some people have a different opinion od
the difference between 5D1 and 1D2:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29523696

Which is why you need to test it yourself with your use case. Clustering/tracking is not what you said that you needed.

Ahem, interesting. But Nikon is quoted to by the OP recommending to
send the camera in for adjustments.

Sure, but a) we've not heard back if it's any better after it's trip to Nikon and b) others complained of the same thing. High-precision outer points is just a bit beyond most of today's implementations.

--
Erik

 

[MM1]

Geez, all the time I talk here about the peripheral points. I'm not
that interested in tracking,

Just making sure. On paper the 1DsII will be little, if any, better
for that type of work.

See the quote below.

About $4k at KEH.

That isn't exactly a spare change for me, you know...

That kind of bounds how important this really is to you.

Importance within the photography is one thing, economical aspects is the other. So far, nobody except myself sponsors my equipment.

One day
Canon may make the camera you want at the price you are willing to
pay -- although you might have to shoot sRAW to limit the filesize.

And perhaps get rid of the diffraction fog.

I know all of that. But still some people have a different opinion od
the difference between 5D1 and 1D2:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29523696

Which is why you need to test it yourself with your use case.
Clustering/tracking is not what you said that you needed.

It funny how selective you appear to read. Seems like you omitted part of it, which I'll quote for you here: "With my 5d I would not dream of using the peripheral point's to focus as they are cr@p and my rate of OOF would be really high. The center point on the 5d is ok but having to focus/recompose sucks. "

Ahem, interesting. But Nikon is quoted to by the OP recommending to
send the camera in for adjustments.

Sure, but a) we've not heard back if it's any better after it's trip
to Nikon and b) others complained of the same thing. High-precision
outer points is just a bit beyond most of today's implementations.

I wonder whether there is some other engine behind the normal precision sensors of the 1D2 to make a difference.

--
Erik

--
Cheers,
Martin

 

[carlk]

I believe AF system like the one in D300/D700 will do but Nikon does not have 85/1.2 or 5DII sensor. I guess you can't have them all.

That was exactly my point. The supposedly ultimate portait camera
won't allow you to use 85L and follow the one third rule?

there's only two cameras out htere that have cross type high
precision close to those areas - the 1D Mark III and the 1Ds Mark III.

not even the IIN and the Mark II's had that.

the 40D / 50D sensor size still wouldn't have 1/3 rule high precision
cross types.

also you have to realize that on the 1 series, there's two RISC
processors from Mark II onwards handling AF and camera control -
instead of one on the smaller bodies .. so there's design challenges
there as well.

even the D300 and D700 doesn't do nearly as well on AF as it does on
the D3 - the larger body mass simply allows everything to run faster,
process more and handle things quickly without worrying about heat,
electrical interferance, et all.

 

[Erik Magnuson]

And perhaps get rid of the diffraction fog.

Diffraction is related to enlargement, not the number of pixels. If you can't resolve the diffraction, you aren't resolving the detail the diffraction might be hiding either.

It funny how selective you appear to read. Seems like you omitted
part of it, which I'll quote for you here: "With my 5d I would not
dream of using the peripheral point's to focus as they are cr@p and
my rate of OOF would be really high. The center point on the 5d is ok
but having to focus/recompose sucks. "

Of course I read it. But when specifically talking about outer point performance, he only mentioned clustering/tracking. Is he using the camera how you plan to? Here are some quotes to say the opposite:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29483511
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29486764

Isn't swapping anecdotes on the internet fun? You can find a quote to support almost any opinion.

I wonder whether there is some other engine behind the normal
precision sensors of the 1D2 to make a difference.

It likely has different processing as well. It may even be superior to the 5D sensor in all situations. That doesn't mean Canon could just drop it into the 5DII. It could be too large to fit in the available body space (requiring significant body redesign.) It could be difficult to make in the quantities needed for the 5D.

To get back to the point of this thread: the 40D/50D sensor is not an obvious improvement just for the outer cross points. Is there a significant cost reason Canon did not use the old 45pt AF? No one outside of Canon (and likely Canon Japan) really knows.

--
Erik

 

[Erik Magnuson]

I believe AF system like the one in D300/D700 will do but Nikon does
not have 85/1.2 or 5DII sensor. I guess you can't have them all.

Well, they complain about off-center AF point performance and lack of AF spread too. You really, really can't have it all.

--
Erik

 

[gldiana]

No here's what people want 5D II + better AF (not 1 series) for
drumroll please .... $2799

I'm not sure who those "people" are, but considering that most pre-orders have been filled up and many companies are not taking anymore pre-orders I have to believe that "people" (photographers) want the 5D Mk II the way it is. Then of course there are "people" who do not take photos but who are obsessed with numbers and those "people" represent a good chunk of DP Review posters.

I for one am quite happy with the way the 5D MkII is and even happier with the price tag, since $2699 is a lot less than what I expected.

 

[gldiana]

the biggest complaint about this new
camera is the lack of improved AF,

The biggest complain HERE, on DPReview forums, which thank God is not the rest of the world.

 

[gldiana]

hm.. why not use it in the 5d, if they have it since 1998

It's called marketing, can't make 2 cameras too similar at too different prices.

nikon can..

And why don't we cut this bull... of pushing one brand over another at every single chance? My **** is bigger than yours is so 17 years old.

 

[Dragos Nenciu]

The examples you gave talk about the center point on the 5D.

And as I said the center point in the 5D is good better than the 20D, xt I had before.

I can't complain about OOF shots with the center point but for 80-90% of my shooting I have to focus and recompose.

I have friends that swear by F/R they don't trust the AF to chose focus for them.

I found that in 80% of the cases the 1dmk2 would focus were I wanted with all the points selected.

The 5d I tried to use the outer points but not only they are not spread enough but they also are not very accurate so I can't use them.

Remember this is with static shots I can't vouch for AF tracking with the 5D as I don't use it for that.

Even if I wanted to, the clustered AF points, slow FPS and long shutter lag make the camera unpleasant to use for fast motion stuff.

Can it be used for fast stuff anyway? Yes. Will the results compare to a camera designed for that? No.

 

[gldiana]

Canon's every single AF engineer is working on the AF system for next
1D4. They simply don't have enough hand to work on another AF system.

oh please...

Cameras are designed 4 years before they come out, you think Canon is waiting the last minute to design an AF system for their next camera? Most likely Canon is working on the specs for the 1Ds Mark V and VI.