Why a Mac and not PC

[Barry Fitzgerald]

3. Is a mac of the same value realy faster and better than a pc?

No, they are more expensive in general. Pc's are better value.

PC's are a better value? FUD, FUD, FUD my friend. PC's may cost
less, but that does not make them a better value.

OK so when you have taken the bullet out of your foot come back!

Please do some Googling and you'll also find that in comparisons of
Apple's newest Core Duo laptops vs. Dell's, that the "Apple
Premium" wasn't much at all.

IMO Dell are cheap nasty pc's that are not worth buying.

Also, in general Apple computers hold their price MUCH, MUCH more
than their Windows counterparts. As far as VALUE goes, I'd say a
computer than was worth 70% of its value in a few years is better
than one worth 40%.

Does this matter?

Oh, and since Apple's customer service, satisfaction, and warranty
programs are consistently rated above EVERY SINGLE PC MAKER's out
there, I'd say that adds some significant VALUE.

5.Does this Apeture program convert most raw files on the market?

No...its decent enough...not that cheap, but other 3rd party
programs support more files to date.

Doesn't Aperture cost $250? 150 for educational buyers? I don't
find that expensive at all in the image software market.

To the OP- you're going to find folks on both sides of the fence.
But please, don't take all of your advice from people here. This
thread alone has a lot of misinformation in it. Don't go to Best
Buy or CC either. Find yourself a computer expert who has used
BOTH platforms and ask them for advice.

After all, you're in a photography forum, not a computer forum.

Exactly...and you dont need a powerhouse computer to do photos...

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

I am a pc system builder! what do you expect me to say? For a build your own pc project a pc is easily cheaper..no question. And I have used a mac, I can only give my view, if you dont like it...tough luck!

 

[echelon2004]

with most of your post but...

There are too many reasons as to why I would go Mac over PC, but
here's a few:

Firstly, colour management. This is a complete nightmare on a
Windows based computer right now. With my Mac I hook up my
Spyder2PRO, pick a calibration profile, leave it for 5-10 minutes,
it's done, and everything uses the profile.

Now, that is how it is done in XP as well..

On Windows, I had to update to the latest version, go into safe
mode, remove the nVidia drivers, remove the windows colour
management powertoy, install the latest nVidia stuff, making sure I
didn't go into the configuration for it this time. I had to get rid
of Adobe gamma, and then create the profile. Unlike a Mac, once the
profile is done, that's not it.

Wow, not sure what you've done to the poor OS=)

The cursor thing is especially annoying, if I had for some reason bought dell, apple or viewsonic monitors it would've driven me nuts.

Most of the rest in your post I agree with, but getting the main monitor calibrated took me 15 minutes the first time I did it, that included installing the drivers and opening the package the hardware was sealed in.

For dual monitor work xp is not very good...

--
Anders

Some of my pictures can be seen at;
http://teamexcalibur.se/US/usindex.html

event photography and photo journalism

 

[Mr Fee]

OP, ask some more folks who've used both platforms. I think you'l
find that they generally agree with what I've said.

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

I completely agree with what you've said; I've been using Windows for several years, have had a job building PCs, worked in tech support, and would consider myself a "power user" - I know my way around windows. I made the switch to OSX almost two years ago now, and haven't regretted it one bit. There's not been anything I've missed about Windows.

In general, things just keep on working with OSX, I've barely had to maintain the system at all, and I'm much more productive due to the better window management. I really do find it painful when I have to go back and use XP these days.

Now, that is how it is done in XP as well..

That's how it's done if it works as it should, but things often don't with Windows.

Wow, not sure what you've done to the poor OS=)

Well, I'm pretty sure I know why it happened, but that was the only way I could find to solve it. Firstly, it's not my main machine - I eventually had enough spare parts to build a third system for the house after upgrades, so it's just used by the rest of my family for checking email and browsing the internet via Opera / Firefox. (generally just ordering things online / doing research)

Anyway, the last time I used it, I didn't have my Spyder2PRO handy (was away for repair) so I used the nVidia drivers to tweak the display. Couldn't stop them changing how things looked after that. (which is why I ended up getting rid of them)

I had been wanting to test out the dual monitor support added by the colour control panel powertoy (or so I had heard) but it didn't seem to work. (possibly related to the nVidia drivers)

After getting rid of both of these, and installing the latest nVidia drivers (without going into the options again!) things seemed to work as they should.

The cursor thing is especially annoying, if I had for some reason
bought dell, apple or viewsonic monitors it would've driven me nuts.

Definitely; if you've got hardware controls and can at least adjust the white-point, then it's ok, but that CRT didn't have any and was significantly out due to its age. Cursor XP seems to do the trick though, you just have to put up with non-standard cursors. (I came across some "XFree" cursors which are alright though, compared to the stuff it comes with)

Most of the rest in your post I agree with, but getting the main
monitor calibrated took me 15 minutes the first time I did it, that
included installing the drivers and opening the package the
hardware was sealed in.

It didn't take me much longer than that to be fair, maybe 25 or so, as I had to try and find out what was causing the problem, but due to OSX handling all the colour management, it just works. (rather than having seperate apps/drivers etc messing about with it in XP)

For dual monitor work xp is not very good...

Agreed.

The way I see it though, is that Apple make fantastic machines that work well, and are generally very reliable. Now that you can choose to run Windows on them as your main OS (or use virtualization for one or two apps that you may still need to use every so often) it just makes more sense to me to get an Apple machine. There's nothing you can do on a "PC" that you can't do on an Intel Mac now, but there's plenty you're missing out on if you're stuck with XP.

And as for whoever said Vista was going to "hurt" OSX - they are playing catch-up, and with the amount of features being dropped from the OS, it looks like it may not even do that. The next major revision of OSX is going to be shown off next month, and could be out very soon. (OSX is updated on almost a yearly basis now)

 

[Earendil_Star]

Paid a fellow Photographer a visit and he has a new mac pro
something laptop.
As a PC user and never worked on a mac I see he is using a program
called Apeture to convert raw files and do basic editing to his
photos. This seemed easy and good especialy all the archiving and
email feutures built in.

Now I wonder am I missing something?

Many people have answered your questions quite well, so I'll give an opinion piece with a few facts, based on being a Mac user and a Computer Science Major doing C# programming for windows based machines.

My first real experience with Windows XP came in a Internet Applications Development class at college. Before that I had worked with XP in a single application enviroment.

In a single application enviroment, like programming in Microsofts Visual Studio(About the only MS app I like), there is little difference between the Operating Systems, mostly becuase you don't have to see it. Cross flatform applications iwll work eactly the same way 99% of the time, and you may no tknow if you are on a Mac or PC, except that the Mac App will look a helluva lot better

Now in a multiple application enviroment OSX screams. In my Internet apps class we worked in many programs at once. I consistantly had Maromedia Flash MX, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Taco HTML, Photoshop SC, Application for Mail, A chat client, and iTunes (I'm missing a few) and that was runnong on my APple POwerbook. Why? Because the class room had a bunch of WIndows based PCs, and after 2 months I asked hte prof if he'd mind if I brought in my laptop and stole a monitor for it. THe rest of the semester I was using dual monitors and getting a crowd of CS majors that would half the time rag on my computer and the other half ask me quesitons about it with curiosity.

I seriously feel clostrophobic working in Windows with multiple applications. The OS also just doesn't seem to handle it as well. I never noticed in XP before this class if MacOSX really was a better at handling a large number of apps at once, but it's true. I always have 10 applications open at once on my laptop, and I never shut my computer down. In fact the only time I shutdown my computer is for core OSX upgrades (minor ones you don't need to restart for).

I'm currently writing this from work on a IBM T43 running windows XP and a dual monitor. It's a great comuter, works for me 90% of the time. But that other 10% isn't so great. And it's not viruses, it is purely the OS. I recieved this computer 2 months ago after it's HD was cleaned and it was ghosted with a new set of IT certified applications for my use. It slows down at times. If an application crashes the OS just doesn't recover very well. Every few days I'll shut the computer down to get the thing running at top speed. And when I'm compiling Applications I notice if there is a slow down in raw processor speed.

However at the end of the day I go home to (and with) my Mac. I get this feeling of fighting XP to get my work done, where on my APple I feel like it's my best friend helping me along. Tell me I'm smoking weed and to shove my "feelings" but how I feel about my computer when I spend 10 hours a day on one is VERY important.

I also held a position as Photo editor for our college paper for a year. We had previous years dells in there and though they had a gig of ram and were running a 2.8mgz intel chip (celeron?) they just weren't up to snuff. Fast at times, but to get them to work was a pain sometimes.

Personally, as a programmer, I look at the UI of XP, especially under the covers in the ocntrol panels, and wonder "wtf were they smoking?!". There are so many inconsistant panels and controls. I figured out pretty quickly when trying to set up a dual monitor why people are afriad to mess with their computer and just assumeit is "broken". I myself was ready to go to IT and tell them the monitor they gave me was busted because the control setup was amazing obscure and in 2 or 3 different panels. ANd what is with XP not recognizing a monitor and bring back the prefferences that were used the last time it was plugged in? This drives me batty! I have to reconfigure it each time.

On my powerbook I just plug in my Dell monitor and everything switches to the settings I had it at before in 3 seconds. No fuss.

If there are any more specific questions I can answer for you please feel free to post here or email me. I have extensive knowledge (that isn't shown here) on Mac OSX, and an above average experience with XP in depth.

Tyler Zuck

PS

MacOS has a system wide spell checker that picks up on just about any text box across any application. It funcations just like the spell checker in Office.
This post was written in XP.

 

[Earendil_Star]

Following on another post that suggested you go to a computer forum, instead of a photography forum, I have just the forum for you.
http://www.MacRumors.com

They have a forum almost as large as this one here at dpreview, and it is full of experts that work in all fields. the average age has to be up around 30, and they generally don't tolerate fan boy aditudes, though they exist.

Of course you will get a biased answer to general questions, but any specific questions you can ask they will answer it right quick with facts and often times articles and websites to back themselves up, especially if you ask them for it.

There is even a forum for photography over there at Macrumors, though I wouldn't ask them for specific camera advice. There is a reaon I'm here and not there after all ;-)

Generally speaking: There is a "fanboy" additude among some Mac users. But let's be honest, the majority of Windows users, expecially in IT and the "smart" ones, have never touched MacOSX. They don't like other operating systems and are flat our ignorant of the usbject, but still act like they know a thing or two because they are IT, they know all.

Now compare that to the average Mac user, who has probably switched in the last 2 years, or else has used Macs for longer, but probably still uses them in the work place. Replace Nikon and Canon in the above two paragraphs and I know who's opinion I would trust more.

Tyler

 

[Watcherq]

Tyler Zuck

PS
MacOS has a system wide spell checker that picks up on just about
any text box across any application. It funcations just like the
spell checker in Office.
This post was written in XP.

Just a comment on this little bit of your statement. If MS ever did this, there will be tons of people screaming blue murder and "antitrust" so fast, the court papers will be submitted before your Mac boots up.

This is the major implication when MS was declared a monopoly; they can't improve on things that might be construde as "leveraging".

 

[Earendil_Star]

Apple's line of displays (stand alone, that is) are very good for
LCDs in terms of color calibrations. Don't get me wrong, they
aren't as good as those monitors that are four times as much, but
then again those costs four times as much for a reason.

However, Dell has used the same panels as some of Apple's LCDs in
their monitors, which can usually be had for much less and come
with more input features. Looking for a 20" LCD? I recommend the
2005FPW

snip

I'd like to add that I would also suggest that monitor, I have one, it's incredible for the price. However there are design issues that cause it to not live up the Apple display with the same panel. The dell bleeds light around the edges which is particularly noticable in a dark room. However I only ever do Photography work during the day, or with light, and work in the dark for papers and the occasional game.

Also Apple's displays are, for the most part, the 4x as much displays ;-)

They iwll cost more than just about every other monitor out there in it's catagory, but that is in part due to the certification they recieve.

I wouldn't buy an Apple monitor unless you have the cash, or you really want one of THE best monitors. Otherwise another quality display will work quite well and you probably won't notice the difference.

tYLER

 

[Nikonsyncro]

To all of you who have made a positive contribution.
I might have to stick to PC as Mac is not wel supported here in SA.
It has given me a lot of insight into what Mac's are all about

Deon

 

[Earendil_Star]

I have an Apple 512K that still runs like the day it was born

For refference, it's called a 512K because that was how much RAM it had. It didn't have an internal HD, but ran on two floppy disks. It had a 13" B&W display. Man I loved that guy...

My family throughout the years has also had an 80mhz PowerBook, 120mhz PowerMac, a 233mhz (Bondi Blue!) iMac, 867mhz Ti PowerBook, 1ghz PowerMac, and my personal 1.25ghz Alum PowerBook.

All of the above are still running fine except for the first powerbook, which fried for some unknown reason after 4 or 5 years. The Ti Powerbook has suffered froma hinge failure after 3.5 years, but that is probably due to my Dad dropping it repeatedly and sliding it off the car seat...humm...
the iMac's built in CRT is finally failing
But it has been used by 3 kids 24/7 since 1997, and is still used daily!

Tyler

 

[Earendil_Star]

MacOS has a system wide spell checker that picks up on just about
any text box across any application. It funcations just like the
spell checker in Office.
This post was written in XP.

Just a comment on this little bit of your statement. If MS ever
did this, there will be tons of people screaming blue murder and
"antitrust" so fast, the court papers will be submitted before your
Mac boots up.

This is the major implication when MS was declared a monopoly; they
can't improve on things that might be construde as "leveraging".

How so? Microsoft can just disable the spell checker for particular apps. OSX certainly doesn't try and overrun Word's spell checker, nor, if I recall, any other spell checker. However for web forums and chat clients it is invaluable

It's good to be small, for so so soooo many reasons

 

[Flashlight]

Anyone who has used both Windows and OS X extensively for any
amount of time will tell you they prefer OS X.

--
Philip

 

[Earendil_Star]

Please do some Googling and you'll also find that in comparisons of
Apple's newest Core Duo laptops vs. Dell's, that the "Apple
Premium" wasn't much at all.

IMO Dell are cheap nasty pc's that are not worth buying.

So would you say they don't have as much Value?

Also, in general Apple computers hold their price MUCH, MUCH more
than their Windows counterparts. As far as VALUE goes, I'd say a
computer than was worth 70% of its value in a few years is better
than one worth 40%.

Does this matter?

If we are talking about Value, yes, duh, durr, and are you crazy?

Using the figures you say don't matter:

Let's say you have a $2000 Apple laptop that is comparable to a $1600 laptop of some other brand.

If in 2 years you can sell the Apple for $1400 and the other brand for $640, which is the better VALUE in the end? that's a total cost of $600 for the Apple and 960 for the other brand.

Not to mention those things you can't put a price tag on, like better costumer support, top touch hardware builds and quality, not to mention the OS. Also you don't need to invest in Virus software, and pay monthly fees for it. FYI OSX comes with a very decent built in software Firewall.

Oh, and since Apple's customer service, satisfaction, and warranty
programs are consistently rated above EVERY SINGLE PC MAKER's out
there, I'd say that adds some significant VALUE.

5.Does this Apeture program convert most raw files on the market?

No...its decent enough...not that cheap, but other 3rd party
programs support more files to date.

Doesn't Aperture cost $250? 150 for educational buyers? I don't
find that expensive at all in the image software market.

To the OP- you're going to find folks on both sides of the fence.
But please, don't take all of your advice from people here. This
thread alone has a lot of misinformation in it. Don't go to Best
Buy or CC either. Find yourself a computer expert who has used
BOTH platforms and ask them for advice.

After all, you're in a photography forum, not a computer forum.

Exactly...and you dont need a powerhouse computer to do photos...

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

I am a pc system builder! what do you expect me to say? For a build
your own pc project a pc is easily cheaper..no question. And I have
used a mac, I can only give my view, if you dont like it...tough
luck!

However you view wasn't backed up by saying anything like the above. The answer the OP's question about APple computer with a "no" but don't give a case for it. I could say your build it yourself computer is too expensive but until I show you a cheaper option you are going to call BS. You make sound arguments not by refuting the opposition, but by making counter examples. Even above you said "Dell's are cheap nasty pc's" in response to someone trying to make a comparison, yet you give no example of a brand is not cheap and nasty, that you would buy, and yet is of significantly better value than the Apple equivalent.

And build yourself PCs are worthless if you don't know how. And until we establish that the OP knows how to build one, I'd say your advice (espeically when you didn't give it to begin with, just refute others claims) is pretty much worthless.

Awesome that you can build your own. But I think I will take my "tough luck" (and my warrenty).

Tyler

 

[Thomas Sapiano]

Can't OS X setup a samba share that is seen by Windows?
Anyone help me out with this?

OS X can both host or connect to an SMB share regardless of the underlying file system. That is, an OS X machine can share files in such a way that a Windows machine can see them, as well as connect to a directory shared on a remote Windows machine. This protocol abstracts the underling mechanism, so the filesystem used on the drive is irrelavant for networked file sharing purposes. As such, the two platforms can communicate in a relatively transparent manner so users won't have any problems in this regard.

The NTFS restriction only applies to locally connected drives. Naturally it may be an issue with external 1394/USB drives, however those are generally formatted with FAT32 (unless the user consciously changes the setting). NTFS is typically used for internal hard drives, which are unlikely to find their way into a Mac (unless you're running Bootcamp or a pirated copy of OS X x86).

 

[Barry Fitzgerald]

Please do some Googling and you'll also find that in comparisons of
Apple's newest Core Duo laptops vs. Dell's, that the "Apple
Premium" wasn't much at all.

IMO Dell are cheap nasty pc's that are not worth buying.

So would you say they don't have as much Value?

Also, in general Apple computers hold their price MUCH, MUCH more
than their Windows counterparts. As far as VALUE goes, I'd say a
computer than was worth 70% of its value in a few years is better
than one worth 40%.

Does this matter?

If we are talking about Value, yes, duh, durr, and are you crazy?

Using the figures you say don't matter:
Let's say you have a $2000 Apple laptop that is comparable to a
$1600 laptop of some other brand.
If in 2 years you can sell the Apple for $1400 and the other brand
for $640, which is the better VALUE in the end? that's a total cost
of $600 for the Apple and 960 for the other brand.

Not to mention those things you can't put a price tag on, like
better costumer support, top touch hardware builds and quality, not
to mention the OS. Also you don't need to invest in Virus software,
and pay monthly fees for it. FYI OSX comes with a very decent built
in software Firewall.

Oh, and since Apple's customer service, satisfaction, and warranty
programs are consistently rated above EVERY SINGLE PC MAKER's out
there, I'd say that adds some significant VALUE.

5.Does this Apeture program convert most raw files on the market?

No...its decent enough...not that cheap, but other 3rd party
programs support more files to date.

Doesn't Aperture cost $250? 150 for educational buyers? I don't
find that expensive at all in the image software market.

To the OP- you're going to find folks on both sides of the fence.
But please, don't take all of your advice from people here. This
thread alone has a lot of misinformation in it. Don't go to Best
Buy or CC either. Find yourself a computer expert who has used
BOTH platforms and ask them for advice.

After all, you're in a photography forum, not a computer forum.

Exactly...and you dont need a powerhouse computer to do photos...

--
pixelbender
http://www.brianmueller.com

I am a pc system builder! what do you expect me to say? For a build
your own pc project a pc is easily cheaper..no question. And I have
used a mac, I can only give my view, if you dont like it...tough
luck!

However you view wasn't backed up by saying anything like the
above. The answer the OP's question about APple computer with a
"no" but don't give a case for it. I could say your build it
yourself computer is too expensive but until I show you a cheaper
option you are going to call BS. You make sound arguments not by
refuting the opposition, but by making counter examples. Even above
you said "Dell's are cheap nasty pc's" in response to someone
trying to make a comparison, yet you give no example of a brand is
not cheap and nasty, that you would buy, and yet is of
significantly better value than the Apple equivalent.

And build yourself PCs are worthless if you don't know how. And
until we establish that the OP knows how to build one, I'd say your
advice (espeically when you didn't give it to begin with, just
refute others claims) is pretty much worthless.

Awesome that you can build your own. But I think I will take my
"tough luck" (and my warrenty).

Tyler

If you bothered to look, all hardware items purchased for a pc come with warranties..boards, ram, processors, hard drives all have multi year warranties.

Some people love apple, thats cool, yes they are cool, a lifestyle statement..great! Some people say they are so much better than a pc its unreal! Some people say Elvis still lives too!

End of the day its up to everyone what they want/buy....they all do the same things anyway.........

Crunch 0's and 1's...........

 

[thirdlife]

--
Jesse A.
-------Ultra-Amature Time Capture Snatcher--------
My stock photo portfolio
http://www.dreamstime.com/resp155987
and other photos http://jascher.smugmug.com/

 

[KennyB]

Thank for the info and suggestions on the Monitors. Also for the correction on Mac.
Ken
--
Happy to Photograph!
Ken
http://kennyb.smugmug.com
http://www.pricelessdigitals.com

 

[Earendil_Star]

I'm as interested as the next person (okay, maybe not) in Vista, but due out at the same time, or just before, is Apple's next operating system, named Leopard.

As Vista is toted to just be catching up with Apple's current OS Tiger, with many of the major features being dropped, I'm doubting Vista will be awe inspiring when it sits next to Apple's new OS. I could be wrong, but it's going to take more than what I've seen in the Beta.

Also Vista is breaking new ground from a company that isn't known for gettings things right the first time. Even Apple has a hard time with the first OSX version when it switched to a Unix core. My news feeds keep coming across bad news for Vista.

It should be interesting to see what Vista turns out to be, after all XP has been out since 2001 (2000?) and they have been working on Vista for at least that long...

Apple will demo Leopard, and show it off at a convention the first part of august. It's due in Janurary.

Tyler

 

[Zimvg]

I switch to mac over three years ago. I wouldn't go back to a PC.

 

[DNAmaster]

I've been an Apple owner for more than 10 years and I finally got fed up with the lack of easily available hardware/software and always checking to see if something would work on the mac.

The other day, I went to a store to get a card reader, a router. Some games were on sale. So I got the software too. My external DVD burner died. I got a new DVD burner at BJ for $90. It has USB. Then I picked up an external USB hard drive for $220.

After I got home, I realize that I forgot to check to see if the software/hardware would work on my computer. Everything worked. Because I had a PC.

 

[Earendil_Star]

It may need a preface, like "Out of everyone I know...". It is also probably an over generalization. Personally I have never met anyone who has spent time really getting to know MacOS and hasn't admired it more than XP, and either switched or wished they could.

If someone is complaining about mixing up alt and cmd keys they haven't used an Apple computer long enough. If there only experience is using a school computer, which are always old, underpowered, and used by too many hands, they haven't really used OSX.

Even in this forum I see many people saying they have used WIndows their whole life and have switched and aint going back (in the forseeable future).

I know a number of people who have had Apple computers and have regretable had to change computers due to industry. Engineers lean heavily on CAD software that doesn't exist in the same fasion under OSX. Same goes for the medical field (My Dad does as much as he can on his Apple).

However I have yet, to personally find someone that has spent time really getting to know OSX, and prefered XP over it.

Cheers,
Tyler