ultimatum

[Ger Bee]

Many of you will say "great, be gone" or "good riddance" just like
you have with Gee Ber, but not because he switched, but mainly
because he was a jerk -- but nonetheless -- I feel that I'm being
fair in my decision -- I will wait for the new line of DSLRs from
Nikon before making my final decision.

............... do yourself a favour, borrow or rent at least a 1D and take it out in the sunshine -- for one afternoon.

'nuff said QED.

No more agonising questions will remain and your jaw will drop, try the 1Ds at serious risk to that jaw ~ so do not try one.

But be aware that Canon are updating the 1D this autumn and introducing a new model possibly sooner. The 1DS is becoming attractive in price but I'd hold off for the next illiteration on that one.

It would be nice if Nikon actually launched that F6 this year.

 

[Spalding12]

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5004240

that's a post from doug
check him out
he's got a lot of crazy ideas

leave him be.......

greg

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Go back and crawl under the rock from which you came - you're either really leftist/socialist or you haven't a clue to how the world works.

Personal attacks on my character aren't warranted or appreciated.

I've been studying history, economics and politicans for years and years - these aren't crazy ideas but theories and conclusions that are old as this country itself. Most of the ideas I have spun are from large think-tanks such as CATO.

If you believe that upholding individual rights is crazy, you're part of the problem, not the solution - but in a country that upholds individual rights, that of course, is your right.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5004240

that's a post from doug
check him out
he's got a lot of crazy ideas

leave him be.......

greg

 

[MelT]

And what do you wish this F6 to have? What possibly could Nikon do to the F5 that would warrant one to want this F6? Don't bring up the illuminated focus points, etc.......Little stuff like this is hardly justification for Nikon to come out with an F6 instead of perhaps an F5s. Who will even buy this F6 when professionals are moving or have moved to digital? Nikon hardly needs to spend development costs on an "F6" when resource can better be used on lens development and digital development.

It would be nice if Nikon actually launched that F6 this year.

 

[JoeCA]

And what do you wish this F6 to have?

Faster autofocus? Better autofocus? Faster film rewind? More frames per second? Faster shutter speed? Keep a record of shutter speed/aperture for each frame (something better than the apparently discontinued photosecretary system)? Built in Pocketwizard? The illuminated focus points ?

There are things that can be done, but will they and would it matter? Or maybe the F6 would break tradition and be digital.

 

[MelT]

ummmmm....... Do you even shoot with an F5? Do you need more then 8 FPS? Do you really find the autofocus slow on the F5? Do you really find it poor in perfomance? Do you really find the rewind too slow? What Nikon cameras do you use that does any of this better then the F5? As I originally said, who would buy it when the masses, pro and serious amateur are moving to digital?

Mel

And what do you wish this F6 to have?

Faster autofocus? Better autofocus? Faster film rewind? More
frames per second? Faster shutter speed? Keep a record of shutter
speed/aperture for each frame (something better than the apparently
discontinued photosecretary system)? Built in Pocketwizard? The
illuminated focus points ?

There are things that can be done, but will they and would it
matter? Or maybe the F6 would break tradition and be digital.

 

[Spalding12]

you can believe any way you like
i'm just saying that THIS is a photography forum
it is NOT political forum

greg

 

[Ripper103348]

you can believe any way you like
i'm just saying that THIS is a photography forum
it is NOT political forum

I don't care much for Doug's politics, but you are 100% wrong for stirring up sh*t in the Nikon forum for what he posted in the Canon forum.

 

[peacefoto]

Mel don't bother... so many of the whiners and gloaters are only reading specs and talk the hell out of them, they will never buy any of the flagship models but just feel safe that they might buy it in the future and the F5.6 zooms they have at hand are still usable. just like some folks jump to canon because canon has 'FF' and end up playing with a 10D...

Mel

And what do you wish this F6 to have?

Faster autofocus? Better autofocus? Faster film rewind? More
frames per second? Faster shutter speed? Keep a record of shutter
speed/aperture for each frame (something better than the apparently
discontinued photosecretary system)? Built in Pocketwizard? The
illuminated focus points ?

There are things that can be done, but will they and would it
matter? Or maybe the F6 would break tradition and be digital.

 

[Spalding12]

you are correct
and as you might know
i have NEVER been controversial here
BUT...
the stuff he wrote
he's crazy
plain and simple
just read and re-read that which he wrote and you'll see that i'm right

greg

 

[JoeCA]

Yeah, last I checked the camera thingy was like mostly black with this bit of red on the inside part of the handgrip. The removable viewfinder said "Nikon" and elsewhere there was a white "F" to the left of a white "5"

sarcasm

Yes, I do use a F5. And what I mentioned, while tops could still be better. The autofocus, while good isnt always that good. So yes Id love to see an improved autofocus. More than 8 frames? Well, not necessarily, but better to have and need not than need and have not.

Some people will stick with film, regardless of what digital is doing. Would it be enough to justify an F6? I dont know. But technology changes. The F5 is how many years old now? Maybe a F5 improved?

 

[phat dinh]

wow...i can't believe the non sense here...buy whatever meets your needs...forget the brand...

there are many brands for many shooters...there will never be the 1 ultimate camera brand that everyone will be happy...that brand competition is what makes good products

photographers are very picky....and same thing with there equipment

but don't worry if one brand is doing nothing they will lose...

I'm sure many of you have been wondering if the grass is greener on
the otherside, despire a few technical setbacks with the latest 10D.

I've been wondering for the past year, and I've been waiting
patiently.

I've been evaluating the entire systems, including lenses, flashes
and bodies. Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages.

One thing that really bugs me is Nikon's lack of development in the
lens sector. Over the past 30 years Nikon has been lagging behind
every step of the way. Not because they're "slow and steady"
because we have all seen the scientific lens comparisons where
Canon lenses are always on top, except for a few occations.

The thing that really gets me is that Nikon has just released their
70-200mm AF-S VR, which is simply amazing in every aspect! But in
reality Canon has had this very lens for years, and others that
Nikon hasn't even produced yet.

What if you could have the following lenses?

300mm f4 VR
300mm f2.8 VR
400mm f4 VR
400mm f2.8 VR

or

200mm f1.8
35mm f1.4

Not to mention the tilt and shift lenses. I would love to have
those lenses on the Nikon system! But only Canon offers these.

Even if Nikon announced those 4 telephotos tomorrow, it would take
another year before they hit the market -- and of course you would
have to pay the Nikon premium for them - that being 10%~ more
expensive than its competition - and for what, the name? A lot of
the charts actually say Canon has a slight edge in its optics.

Then comes along the full frame, mega resolution 1Ds. It was
basiclly a red herring for Nikon users, but if you look more
closely it's everything I've always wanted.

It's the reason why I switched to digital.

I want a camera that works just like a film camera but it digital.
This is it, folks -- and it's the best IMHO that does this.

I have noticed that Nikon has put in the paperwork for trademarks
on the D2X and D2H. I'll gladly wait until I hear some more news,
but my ulimatum is this:

I WILL wait until the D2X and D2H (or whatever is next after the
D1X) have been announced, and if they are not on par with the 1Ds
-- full frame is a must, or Nikon has commited suicide on its
entire line of lenses -- I'm prepared to sell my gear, and take the
loss and invest into a system that already has what I want.

I also expect to see some new telephotos on the marke with VR and
perhaps even a TS -- but no one wants to wait a year before they're
released -- rush the product through the PR BS, kinda like the
12-24mm and get it out on the market in 6 months.

Many of you will say "great, be gone" or "good riddance" just like
you have with Gee Ber, but not because he switched, but mainly
because he was a jerk -- but nonetheless -- I feel that I'm being
fair in my decision -- I will wait for the new line of DSLRs from
Nikon before making my final decision.

After all, this isn't a marriage, it's just a tool -- nothing
personal -- just business.

It would be stupid for me to switch right now, especially when
Nikon has new DSLRs in the queue and will be announced anytime.

--
http://www.phatimages.com



http://www.digital-life-21.com/forums/index.php?s=

 

[Rachael]

hmm....seems like someone here is not happy with Nikon?

smilez it is always the case,right? When Canon releases something new, Nikon Users will rants on and on till they get their new toys then the Canon ppl will rant....the cycle never stops.

Take Nikon and Canon to be different car branding for example. Canon would like the Mitsubishi or Toyota, who releases many new cars over a short time span. True, they have good cars too amongst these Such as the Lancer Evolution, FTO, Celica,etc...etc....This is especially true in the Asia aspects....

While Nikon is on the track of more like Ferrari and likes, Releasing a new car every other year or longer......

Does that means that Ferrari is losing money?? On the contrary Ferrari is making money and so is Nikon. While every one seems to see Nikon as Camera's only company, the company has a lot of other products such as Steppers Machines for Fabrication of IC Chips, microscopes, binoculars and even glasses.

All of these revolves around Optics, while Canon, has move towards a different approach by making Calculaters(??!?!!), Photocopiers, Printers, amongst others. it is also not surprising that Canon could be using Nikon's Steppers to make those chips used inside Canon's Cameras and other equipments.

in reality there is no winner in each case as each draws from a different approach to the market..

and remember the Tortoise and Hare race?....I wonder which is which....Nikon=Tortoise or is it Canon?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Thanks for the childish followup and non-linear comparisons -- completely useless.

What I'm dealing with is what is here and what is now. I'm also comparing what Nikon and Canon have been doing the past 30 years.

Canon decided to break backwards compatibility, move on with better lenses all the way around, while Nikon is just now releasing their first VR lenses and have environmental seals at the mount.

I'll probably make the move at the end of the year. I'll be putting an end to my commercial photography and move into move aggressive environments that will require good seals and design, which is something I feel Nikon can't offer, especially in the lens department.

The only case I see of a leap-frog pattern was with the DSLRs - and I really don't care about the camera as much as I do the lenses, at least where I want to be two years from now, which is outside of a studio or a bright sunny day.

Times change, tools change to meet the demand.

I'll need something that's full frame and has a great line of environmentally sealed lenses that can take the abuse of rain, snow, etc.

hmm....seems like someone here is not happy with Nikon?

smilez it is always the case,right? When Canon releases something
new, Nikon Users will rants on and on till they get their new toys
then the Canon ppl will rant....the cycle never stops.

Take Nikon and Canon to be different car branding for example.
Canon would like the Mitsubishi or Toyota, who releases many new
cars over a short time span. True, they have good cars too amongst
these Such as the Lancer Evolution, FTO, Celica,etc...etc....This
is especially true in the Asia aspects....

While Nikon is on the track of more like Ferrari and likes,
Releasing a new car every other year or longer......

Does that means that Ferrari is losing money?? On the contrary
Ferrari is making money and so is Nikon. While every one seems to
see Nikon as Camera's only company, the company has a lot of other
products such as Steppers Machines for Fabrication of IC Chips,
microscopes, binoculars and even glasses.

All of these revolves around Optics, while Canon, has move towards
a different approach by making Calculaters(??!?!!), Photocopiers,
Printers, amongst others. it is also not surprising that Canon
could be using Nikon's Steppers to make those chips used inside
Canon's Cameras and other equipments.

in reality there is no winner in each case as each draws from a
different approach to the market..

and remember the Tortoise and Hare race?....I wonder which is
which....Nikon=Tortoise or is it Canon?

 

[Rachael]

Thanks for calling me childish, you Troll..

 

[Clark Hampton]

It would be nice to know what the heck Nikon is planning to do with their sensor size rather than keeping people guessing.

I am betting that Nikon will go full frame but that they don't want to upset their 12-24 offering BUT they really wouldn't if they offereed the lens for a reasonable price. I would pay $400-500 for the lens because I could use the D100 as a second body even after a full frame is released but now it's just a WAY too expensive lens that has everyone scratching their heads.

I just focus on taking pictures but when it comes to a lens upgrade, I can't think wide angle for my digital until I know what Nikon's plans are and the price for the DX lens is in a range that makes sense.

you won´t impress Nikon with your ultimatum.

I'm not here to impress Nikon. Nikon is here to create photography
tools that impress me, so that I buy them. So far this is only
half the case.

I want a solid answer from Nikon whether or not they are going full
frame - since they are the only ones who seem to be going the 1.5
route - while everyone elses just watches and shakes their head.

If they are going 1.5 crop, I want a solution from them - AKA 12-24
f2.8 ED and a 9mm f2.8 ED, that would in essence make up for the
14mm f2.8 and 17-35mm f2.8 -- otherwise I've wasted my money on
these lenses and system.

See where I'm coming from?

Nikon doesn't offer a solution to their problem -- although I
suspect when they release the next D1 series camera they will have
to address this issue, either through actions or words. If the
next D1 is 1.5 cropped without supporting lenses, like I mentioned
above (the current 12-24mm won't cut it - it's a consumer lens),
then Nikon has basically told the professional users to take a
hike. I don't want to wait 2 more years for Nikon to catch up -
their system isn't worth the wait - and I can afford to lose $2000
selling my equipment and spending the extra for the 1Ds - because I
can at least buy what I need now.

Only the D2X can tell.

 

[Jono Slack]

Hi Doug

if you want VR on everything AND full frame, then you have no possibe reason for waiting - there is absolutely NO CHANCE that the new Nikons will be full frame - THAT would be suicide. You may feel that the 1.5 solution is the wrong one . . . . . but they would be crazy to annoucne their adherence to it by bringing out DX lenses, and then muddying the water by bringing out a full frame body (that's what would make me move).

Do remember that your 70-200 will give you the reach of a 300mm on the 1DS.

I even disagree that GerBee is a jerk!

But - generally speaking it's obviously clear that Canon are ahead in lens design. They do seem heavier, and, at least in the UK, they are not cheaper.

You are unhappy with Nikon - go for it, before you waste more time losing those great photographs.

;-)

kind regards
jono slack

I'm sure many of you have been wondering if the grass is greener on
the otherside, despire a few technical setbacks with the latest 10D.

I've been wondering for the past year, and I've been waiting
patiently.

I've been evaluating the entire systems, including lenses, flashes
and bodies. Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages.

One thing that really bugs me is Nikon's lack of development in the
lens sector. Over the past 30 years Nikon has been lagging behind
every step of the way. Not because they're "slow and steady"
because we have all seen the scientific lens comparisons where
Canon lenses are always on top, except for a few occations.

The thing that really gets me is that Nikon has just released their
70-200mm AF-S VR, which is simply amazing in every aspect! But in
reality Canon has had this very lens for years, and others that
Nikon hasn't even produced yet.

What if you could have the following lenses?

300mm f4 VR
300mm f2.8 VR
400mm f4 VR
400mm f2.8 VR

or

200mm f1.8
35mm f1.4

Not to mention the tilt and shift lenses. I would love to have
those lenses on the Nikon system! But only Canon offers these.

Even if Nikon announced those 4 telephotos tomorrow, it would take
another year before they hit the market -- and of course you would
have to pay the Nikon premium for them - that being 10%~ more
expensive than its competition - and for what, the name? A lot of
the charts actually say Canon has a slight edge in its optics.

Then comes along the full frame, mega resolution 1Ds. It was
basiclly a red herring for Nikon users, but if you look more
closely it's everything I've always wanted.

It's the reason why I switched to digital.

I want a camera that works just like a film camera but it digital.
This is it, folks -- and it's the best IMHO that does this.

I have noticed that Nikon has put in the paperwork for trademarks
on the D2X and D2H. I'll gladly wait until I hear some more news,
but my ulimatum is this:

I WILL wait until the D2X and D2H (or whatever is next after the
D1X) have been announced, and if they are not on par with the 1Ds
-- full frame is a must, or Nikon has commited suicide on its
entire line of lenses -- I'm prepared to sell my gear, and take the
loss and invest into a system that already has what I want.

I also expect to see some new telephotos on the marke with VR and
perhaps even a TS -- but no one wants to wait a year before they're
released -- rush the product through the PR BS, kinda like the
12-24mm and get it out on the market in 6 months.

Many of you will say "great, be gone" or "good riddance" just like
you have with Gee Ber, but not because he switched, but mainly
because he was a jerk -- but nonetheless -- I feel that I'm being
fair in my decision -- I will wait for the new line of DSLRs from
Nikon before making my final decision.

After all, this isn't a marriage, it's just a tool -- nothing
personal -- just business.

It would be stupid for me to switch right now, especially when
Nikon has new DSLRs in the queue and will be announced anytime.

--
Jono Slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

 

[jean-Claude Monier]

.......
I'll probably make the move at the end of the year. I'll be
...

So do it now and live us alone
--
JC
France: http://www.pbase.com/jcmonier/

 

[JoeCA]

Hi Doug

Do remember that your 70-200 will give you the reach of a 300mm on
the 1DS.

Actually, a 70-200 will give him a 70-200 on the 1Ds as it is full frame and therefore not subject to the multiplication factor of the smaller sensors.

 

[tony field]

What if you could have the following lenses?

300mm f4 VR 300mm f2.8 VR 400mm f4 VR 400mm f2.8 VR
or 200mm f1.8 35mm f1.4

Not to mention the tilt and shift lenses. I would love to have
those lenses on the Nikon system! But only Canon offers these.

hummm, not quite true.

If these lenses and their features are critical to your photographic endevors, I would suggest that you buy them and the associated Canon 1Ds body. To me, it would be a no-brainer if I make money with the equipment and need special lenses. I cannot see why you are so concerned about retaining Nikon. The camera equipment should be a reasonably small component of your expenses over the long term. In addtion it is reasonable to have some of both systems. Some people have metric and imperial tools to work on their cars - camera equipment is in the same general league as the tools.

On the other hand, do you 'need' these items??? I note that Canon is discontinuing the 200mm F1.8 because they don't sell enought of them to justifiy the production setup.

Do you need or are you just envious that Canon has a better selection of auto-focus lenses? For example, would you use the 35mm 1.4 at 1.4 or is 2.0 really the max needed? I ask this because I have a 50mm F1.0 lens that has only been used at F1.0 for tests and never once used on assignment. In fact, my 50mm F1.4 lens is sharper and contrastier. My bragging rights with the F1.0 has not delivered one important image!

I have not found the Canon lenses to be "superior" optically. I found there is more difference in build quality than optical quality. Of course you can always find small optical differences between two similar lenses (such as the 85mm 1.4 Nikon vs 85mm 1.2 Canon - or even the 70/80-200 mm high end zooms) None of the differences would be noticeably in most situations and there are certainly not enough difference to make anyone envious of the other brand.

tony