The fully functional D800 AF thread - drop a line!

[LiveFromPhilly]

Way better than my D300S was and better than my ex's D700 that I borrowed a few times.

 

[bobn2]

henrikbengtsson wrote:

It seems to me that many users are complaining about the Left AF issue on the D800 series. But then again only people with real issues seem to be active on the internet - making it a bit hard to jump to conclusions. I am fully aware of the problem but I thought maybe instead of all the whining it might be fun to hear, "my D800 is allright" (there should be plenty plenty) and whenever someone complains about Nikon (real problem or not), there's always this thread for some perspective.

So drop a line, a "+1" or whatever if your D800 AF is 100%.

But then I'm not sure that my use pattern is such, or that I'm a good enough photographer to reveal these problems if I had them.

 

[Chris J Newman]

olyflyer wrote:

...if Nikon would ever i introduce sensor shaking IS (IBIS) then I will sell everything and move to another brand. IBIS was one reason for me to leave Olympus, I want a fixed sensor.

As far as I understand, the sensors on my D90 and D800 already shake to remove the dust. I would like the option of intelligent movement to counter my shaking. I'm not aware of frequent problems with the various brands that use sensor stabilization.

Chris

 

[AllOtherNamesTaken]

Chris J Newman wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

...if Nikon would ever i introduce sensor shaking IS (IBIS) then I will sell everything and move to another brand. IBIS was one reason for me to leave Olympus, I want a fixed sensor.

As far as I understand, the sensors on my D90 and D800 already shake to remove the dust. I would like the option of intelligent movement to counter my shaking. I'm not aware of frequent problems with the various brands that use sensor stabilization.

Chris

That isn't how it works. Only the low pass filter (which is in front of the sensor) vibrates at varying frequencies in attempt to remove loose dust. The sensor itself does not vibrate.

In-lens image stabilization is always superior to sensor-based stabilization, at least with current technologies. Additionally, you can see the stabilization effect in the viewfinder with in-lens stabilization, which is extremely useful, especially for tracking things like birds. The only advantage of body-based stabilization is that every single lens gets the stabilization, even 50 year old lenses, which granted is a very nice perk, but it is less effective.

 

[primeshooter]

Marianne Oelund wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

What exactly is wrong in my response other than that......it does not fit your expectations of an approved answer? Well, never mind, but to me the only sane response is to contact Nikon when you have a consistent problem you claim to have.

What is wrong is that I was not voicing a complaint - you missed the point again: Although I have not used a D800/E which exhibits the "left AF point issue," I remain open-minded to the trials of others which indicate, through credible reports, that on the order of 10-20% of early D800 units are affected. I cannot help but think of what Jesus said: "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

When multiple users disclose that several bodies in a row that they have tried, exhibit this issue, then it isn't a 1% problem. When numerous users disclose that their camera has made many service trips to Nikon, with highly variable success, then Nikon service isn't an attractive option.

Perhaps some day I'll do with my D800E, what I've been doing for a living, with other complex electronic units, for decades: Take it apart and fix it myself. Why play the Nikon "black box shop" lottery, drawing a technician who has an unknown level of experience? If I eventually have someone adjust the camera for me, it will probably be a tech at a local shop, who has already proven their competence. In the meantime, the camera is perfectly usable with appropriate AF fine-tuning.

 

[Christopher0us]

Mine works great! Purchased at Best Buy b/c of their 30-day returns with no restocking fee policy, but from day 1, no focus issues, no green tint. This camera sees in the dark and at an amazing resolution with pretty much no noise. An amazing tool. Tired of all the complaint threads as well (should be confined to one mega-thread if you ask me).

 

[Jay A]

Seems that everytime I come to DPReview and read about the D800 I want to sell mine and get a Canon. But everytime I go out and shoot with it I say 'nah, this is actually pretty darn good."

I did some shooting yesterday and made some 19 inch prints. Man are they sharp. They are of some landscapes. I happen to have a couple of Ansel Adams prints hanging in my office and usually use them to compare quality. I used to use them in my darkroom days as a guide to help me in achieving the best print quality I could get. I swear the stuff from yesterday look as sharp if not sharper. Shot mainly with the 14-24...incredible lens!

 

[GroWeb]

primeshooter wrote:

Marianne Oelund wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

What exactly is wrong in my response other than that......it does not fit your expectations of an approved answer? Well, never mind, but to me the only sane response is to contact Nikon when you have a consistent problem you claim to have.

What is wrong is that I was not voicing a complaint - you missed the point again: Although I have not used a D800/E which exhibits the "left AF point issue," I remain open-minded to the trials of others which indicate, through credible reports, that on the order of 10-20% of early D800 units are affected. I cannot help but think of what Jesus said: "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

When multiple users disclose that several bodies in a row that they have tried, exhibit this issue, then it isn't a 1% problem. When numerous users disclose that their camera has made many service trips to Nikon, with highly variable success, then Nikon service isn't an attractive option.

Perhaps some day I'll do with my D800E, what I've been doing for a living, with other complex electronic units, for decades: Take it apart and fix it myself. Why play the Nikon "black box shop" lottery, drawing a technician who has an unknown level of experience? If I eventually have someone adjust the camera for me, it will probably be a tech at a local shop, who has already proven their competence. In the meantime, the camera is perfectly usable with appropriate AF fine-tuning.

 

[TOF guy]

Pradipta wrote:
How many times have I written that my camera works fine? Can you point me to one single post?

No but you're just one person.

I can point you to single users reminding everybody that their camera is fine on a regular basis.

 

[5tve]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:

Since you have heard complaints from a very small number, it is proof enough to show that a large percentage of the cameras are operating fine.

That proves nothing. And what do you mean by "a large percentage?"

What it proves is that a large percentage of the owners are perfectly ok with their usage of the camera.

That still proves nothing - one way or the other - because only a very small fraction of these owners ever peruse the Nikon Fx dpreview forum, much less write posts.

Not correct.

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

The only thing we know from this forum is that among the members who are posting regularly here and bought the D800 during its first months of production a significant fraction reported a problem with the left most AF sensor.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

--
My Online Gallery - http://www.pbase.com/pradipta

Its also very human to take sides be it which football side you support or which car is best, Apple v PC , Canon v Nikon.

Your religion nearly always depends on the family you are born into & the country you live in.

Seems to me if you are lucky enough to be in the group that owns problem free D800's a large proportion of that group take the view that the left focus issue is confined to a small percentage of owners , of course haven taken sides a small number are very active in letting us all know their D800 is perfect every chance they get.

Of course every one with a defective D800 including me probably thinks the problem affects a high proportion of D800's .

Its very human to take sides on every subject under the sun thankfully the the silent majority are nearly always moderates.

From the Reikan site http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/online-tools/lenscamera-information/

The Red & Blue ends of the Bar chart are probably D800's with focus problems.



I believe Thom Hogan is in the best position to know the extent of the problem unfortunately its really hard wading through his site all his posts for 2012 are on one very long page some novels have less words & links are almost nonexistent.

---

"On the FX end we have the D600, D800, and D4. Here's the sad thing: had 95% of the D800's delivered been problem free, I think it would have been a no-brainer: the D800 would have been the best camera Nikon put out this year, and maybe even the best camera they've released in the last four years. But my statistics say that more than a fifth of D800's shipped with issues through most of the year. That means that at least 50,000 people didn't get the kinds of results that the camera should deliver. Hard to say best when that many were disappointed. Especially when the company has essentially remained silent about the problem and had trouble fixing it for many"

http://www.bythom.com/2012 Nikon News.htm

To make it easier I have made a list of the most relevant posts the easiest way to find them is to use your browsers Find option select either the text or the date Ctrl+C to copy it to your clipboard then Ctrl+F & followed by Ctrl+V to paste it into the Find field.

Is Nikon the New Ford Dec 6

Quality Control Nov 23

humor Nov 9

Focus on Focus Oct 22

More D800 data Sept 28

D800: Where Do We Stand? Sept 25

Random Statistic of the Week August 27

Something's Up August 21

It Doesn't End August 20

Autofocus Repairs August 10

The Sounds of Silence August 9

Really Nikon? August 7

Variable Isolation August 7

This is Only a Test August 6

Update about New D800 Bodies July 26

Catching up with the D800 June 16

Recommended July 10

Recall the Recall May 1

http://www.bythom.com/ current 2013

The Kermit Syndrome Jan 24 (green LCD & Nikon images on monitor too green)

The Value of User Data Jan 23

 

[TOF guy]

olyflyer wrote:

Pradipta wrote:
That is not entirely accurate. It is a common knowledge that most people who have a perfectly working body won't post at forums.

Quite the contrary Nikon owners without any issue with their cameras (you for instance) are very vocal about it.

 

[TOF guy]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:

Since you have heard complaints from a very small number, it is proof enough to show that a large percentage of the cameras are operating fine.

That proves nothing. And what do you mean by "a large percentage?"

What it proves is that a large percentage of the owners are perfectly ok with their usage of the camera.

That still proves nothing - one way or the other - because only a very small fraction of these owners ever peruse the Nikon Fx dpreview forum, much less write posts.

Not correct.

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

That is not correct either.

First, Most of the people who've reported issues with their D800 are long standing members of dpreview Nikon forums. It's not like they fell the need to join the forum and post here after discovering the issue with the camera.

Second it also works the other way. There are people who do not like to admit their camera is defective. There are people who don't like to admit an issue with a Nikon product (because it's Nikon). There are many people who use only the central sensor and have no idea whether the leftmost sensor works. There are others who just focus on getting it fixed by Nikon and don't feel the need to share the misfortune.

The reality is that you can't come to any conclusion one way or the other just by counting the number of posters in the forum with an AF issue and those without.

You can however derive probabilities of failure from some specific experiences. I had already concluded that it was extremly unlikely that the ratio of D800 with a defective Af was less than 10% long (first months of production) before Thom Hogan came to the conclusion that this number is most likely between 20 and 30%.

The only thing we know from this forum is that among the members who are posting regularly here and bought the D800 during its first months of production a significant fraction reported a problem with the left most AF sensor.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

It was not from a select few. And 20 to 30% of cameras with a defective AF is very significant.

 

[DANdeMAN]

Chris J Newman wrote:

I bought my D800 at the end of 2013.

Chris, have you felt any side effects from your time travel experience?

BTW, my E is working fine... July 2012 delivery. Best FX camera for big a$$ prints.

 

[Pradipta Dutta]

TOF guy wrote:

That is not correct either.

First, Most of the people who've reported issues with their D800 are long standing members of dpreview Nikon forums. It's not like they fell the need to join the forum and post here after discovering the issue with the camera.

I never suggested that those who are complaining are new members and making up a story to give Nikon a bad name. Hence, your reference to them being long standing DPR forum members make no sense in this context.

Second it also works the other way. There are people who do not like to admit their camera is defective.

Agreed. That definitely constitutes one group.

There are people who don't like to admit an issue with a Nikon product (because it's Nikon). There are many people who use only the central sensor and have no idea whether the leftmost sensor works. There are others who just focus on getting it fixed by Nikon and don't feel the need to share the misfortune.

The reality is that you can't come to any conclusion one way or the other just by counting the number of posters in the forum with an AF issue and those without.

You can however derive probabilities of failure from some specific experiences. I had already concluded that it was extremly unlikely that the ratio of D800 with a defective Af was less than 10% long (first months of production) before Thom Hogan came to the conclusion that this number is most likely between 20 and 30%.

Thom Hogan is not a benchmark. I am not suggesting that his analysis is wrong. But I am not going to simply take it for granted just because Thom Hogan said so.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

It was not from a select few. And 20 to 30% of cameras with a defective AF is very significant.

If 20% to 30% cameras were defective then it is a significant number. But I am reluctant to believe that number just because Thom Hogan said so. Thom has been wrong with his predictions many times before. He is an excellent writer and has and extremely good knowledge of Nikon equipment. But I am not going to blindly believe on numbers here.

 

[TOF guy]

Pradipta wrote:
If 20% to 30% cameras were defective then it is a significant number. But I am reluctant to believe that number just because Thom Hogan said so. Thom has been wrong with his predictions many times before.

But the number of 20 to 30% is not a prediction.

 

[Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery]

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:
If 20% to 30% cameras were defective then it is a significant number. But I am reluctant to believe that number just because Thom Hogan said so. Thom has been wrong with his predictions many times before.

But the number of 20 to 30% is not a prediction.

 

[5tve]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

That is not correct either.

First, Most of the people who've reported issues with their D800 are long standing members of dpreview Nikon forums. It's not like they fell the need to join the forum and post here after discovering the issue with the camera.

I never suggested that those who are complaining are new members and making up a story to give Nikon a bad name. Hence, your reference to them being long standing DPR forum members make no sense in this context.

Second it also works the other way. There are people who do not like to admit their camera is defective.

Agreed. That definitely constitutes one group.

There are people who don't like to admit an issue with a Nikon product (because it's Nikon). There are many people who use only the central sensor and have no idea whether the leftmost sensor works. There are others who just focus on getting it fixed by Nikon and don't feel the need to share the misfortune.

The reality is that you can't come to any conclusion one way or the other just by counting the number of posters in the forum with an AF issue and those without.

You can however derive probabilities of failure from some specific experiences. I had already concluded that it was extremly unlikely that the ratio of D800 with a defective Af was less than 10% long (first months of production) before Thom Hogan came to the conclusion that this number is most likely between 20 and 30%.

Thom Hogan is not a benchmark. I am not suggesting that his analysis is wrong. But I am not going to simply take it for granted just because Thom Hogan said so.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

It was not from a select few. And 20 to 30% of cameras with a defective AF is very significant.

If 20% to 30% cameras were defective then it is a significant number. But I am reluctant to believe that number just because Thom Hogan said so. Thom has been wrong with his predictions many times before. He is an excellent writer and has and extremely good knowledge of Nikon equipment. But I am not going to blindly believe on numbers here.

 

[Pradipta Dutta]

5tve wrote:

What method are you using to estimate the number of defective cameras , gut instinct ,reading this forum ?

Did you even read my posts? Or did you just felt compelled to respond to make some noise?

I never suggested any percentages for defective cameras. All I consistently said was that the individuals need to be pragmatic when forming an opinion on what percentage of cameras did not perform to specs as the unhappy guys make the most noise. I also said that since most of the owners (well over a quarter million) of the D800 did not complain, majority had a fully working camera for their usage.

 

[Jason666]

My center sensor had severe back focus problem. So the left sensor issue is secondary.

After the 1st service, it became severely front focused.

After the 2nd service, it remained severely front focused, requiring +15 to +20 adjustment.

After the 3rd trip, it is slightly front focused, requring +10 adjustment. I can live with it.

The strange thing is that LA service center provided the photos that demonstrate perfect focus, while all my pro lenses consistently front focus in the nearly identical setup. I wonder if Nikon's calibration lens is off or the lighting condition is different.

Nikon Service Center attitude was very good. They asked me to send in lenses together with D800 if I am not satisfied with the 3rd service.


Photo from LA Nikon Service Center to prove the in-spec performance

 

[5tve]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

5tve wrote:

What method are you using to estimate the number of defective cameras , gut instinct ,reading this forum ?

Did you even read my posts? Or did you just felt compelled to respond to make some noise?

I never suggested any percentages for defective cameras. All I consistently said was that the individuals need to be pragmatic when forming an opinion on what percentage of cameras did not perform to specs as the unhappy guys make the most noise. I also said that since most of the owners (well over a quarter million) of the D800 did not complain, majority had a fully working camera for their usage.